Microsoft CEO says unfair practices by Google led to its dominance as a search engine
(finance.yahoo.com)
from L4s@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 2023 12:00
https://lemmy.world/post/6213328
from L4s@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 2023 12:00
https://lemmy.world/post/6213328
Microsoft CEO says unfair practices by Google led to its dominance as a search engine::Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella said Monday that unfair tactics used by Google led to its dominance as a search engine, tactics that in turn have thwarted his company’s rival program, Bing. Nadella testified in a packed Washington, D.C., courtroom as part of the government’s landmark antitrust trial against Google’s parent company, Alphabet. The Justice Department alleges Google has abused the dominance of its ubiquitous search engine to throttle competition and innovation at the expense of consumers, allegations that echo a similar case brought against Microsoft in the late 1990s.
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Microsoft crying about unfair tactics and monopoly? That’s ironic.
What a classic case of: “I learned it by watching you!”
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Let 'em fight and bring each other down a notch, I say.
Exhibit A
Since when is giving testimony in a hearing “crying”?
In a pot making ad hominem at the kettle situation the context is of secondary concern.
I mean he’s not wrong, but you know, pot, kettle, etc.
“They did what we did, and now we are pissed.”
True pot, the kettle is definitely a slut, but you’re a god damn whore!
I mean, he is wrong. Google isn’t the default on Windows, but Chrome and Google search dominate Windows.
Google is the default for Android, so we can discuss that (but that isn’t what Microsoft is complaining about.)
That just leaves macOS and more importantly iPhone. Google pays to be the default there. Is that unfair? Should Apple be able to bid for/charge a company to be the default?
Additionally in all these cases switching is easy.
I won’t deny that being the default is an advantage but it isn’t like users can’t switch. You can remove Google search from your phone and it will work just fine. You can change the defaults on your Safari browser in a few clicks.
To be clear if this case uncovers shady/illegal behavior from Google, fuck 'em, but I’m not seeing it.
IMHO, no, he’s not wrong. Google is the default because they’re paying to be the default. That’s monopolistic.
It’s also not easy to switch from Google. In Safari, DuckDuckGo is set as my default search engine, but Siri will still use Google when I ask to search something. Same with Google Assistant. Sure, you can disable Google search on your phone, but that also removes other features that aren’t even related to search (like Assistant, which only runs if the Google app is enabled).
To me, that is absolutely anticompetitive behavior.
And good luck installing and using most mobile apps or doing mobile payments without being trapped into one of the duopolists ecosystem.
In the US if you want to watch the Olympics what company do you turn to? Well the only option is NBC who paid 7 billion for exclusive (US) rights, so you’re turning to NBC. Other companies could and likely did bid, but NBC paid the most. Even worse there are no (legal) alternatives.
How about your local sports arena, school campus or restaurant? Do they serve Pepsi or Coke? It’s not always cash but they might have bought (or discounted) that soda machine with the big PEPSI logo on the side, or the scoreboard that says COCA-COLA.
If I search for “shoes” on Bing the top result is Temu, are they monopolizing Bing Search?
Just because you pay doesn’t mean it’s a monopoly. Google pays Apple $20 billion per year to be the default. Microsoft can afford $20 billion, heck they can afford $40 billion, why aren’t they paying?
In terms of switching, you said you switched Safari but that didn’t update Siri. That sounds like an Apple bug to me. If Google is forcing/threatening Apple to make a worse product, that’s a case of them being a monopoly.
In terms of Assistant, that is part of Google Search. On my Android phone I can choose a different default “Digital Assistant”, in my case I can pick Firefox, but it looks like others exist in the wider ecosystem.
If you’re saying Google Search should be separate from Google Assistant, I think that’s a reasonable request, but not doing so doesn’t make them monopolistic. Looking online, since I don’t have these assistants/devices, Siri can be charged by changing Safari (which I know you mentioned was an issue for you earlier), but Alexa will only use Bing (unless you use some third party stuff) and I’m unclear about Cortana but Microsoft gave up on that so we can ignore it.
I do agree I would love to see more open and accessible APIs for all these different services. I should be able to have Apple iMessage on my Chromebook and Chromecast on my Apple TV. I think there is a lot that can be done to improve things, but what I’m not convinced of, yet, is that Google has been monopolistic. Obviously the case is ongoing, so I look forward to more information.
As for the Microsoft CEO, it’s clear to me he wants to be the default without paying for it. I won’t fault him for that, that’s $20 billion in savings.
Google is monopolistic now, but they didn’t BECOME the biggest search because of it, obviously. They became the biggest because they had the best search engine, then leveraged it to become what they are now.
That’s usually how monopolies come about.
While I mostly agree with what you’re saying here, I would like to point out that removing Google Search from an Android device can prevent a user from accessing other applications or specific features within (obviously Google developed apps). I guess that one really comes down to what we think working “just fine” is.
I think you’re right for the Play Store or Google Play Services but I can disable the “Google” app and things run just fine, and I can install more apps.
You’re not wrong that ROMs that don’t include the core services have issues, but Google Search is definitely not required.
(As an exception some phones won’t allow you to disable certain Google services, but as a general rule you can.)
Windows is constantly nagging you to switch to Edge when you use a non-Edge browser but apparently Nadella is totally cool with that.
Yep. Microsoft has been successfully sued for monopolistic behavior, but yeah, pot, kettle, etc.
Takes a monopoly to know a monopoly, I guess.
Man, I booted up a Windows laptop I use for 3D printing software for the first time in 6 months. The fucking popup ads for Microsoft shit were out of control. Fuck that shit, I turned it off and started searching for something that works under Linux.
I’ve been using Firefox on Windows for a few years (and Chrome for many years before that) and I can’t remember the last time it nagged me, if it ever did. I’ve sometimes wanted to temporarily switch the default browser back to Edge and the setting to do it hard to find if you don’t know where to look.
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Honestly, I’ve only ever seen the first one after a major update. I’ve never personally seen the 2nd one, but I also trim down the start menu and taskbar to be windows 7 like, so 🤷
Microsoft once bailed out Apple to show they have competition. Google financially supports Firefox so have a modicum of competition.
The Microsoft bailing out apple for competition, is arguably worse than firefox and google. Why? Because apple software required apple hardware.
Microsoft had essentially a monopoly on every piece of computer hardware that was not made by apple, while apple was (and still is) in its own playground with its own glue to eat. They weren’t really competing. If you wanted something that was not expensive apple hardware, Microsoft was the only option.
Now Linux is more of an option, but at 2-3% of the market share, it’s hardly the start of competition.
I believe Microsofts 3 point plan involved these things:
And Microsoft isn’t the only company guilty of this, Adobe, Autodesk, and so many more. And parts 2 and 3 are still issues today that are incredibly hard to stop. Because the vast majority of people, including politicians don’t care or don’t want to switch. Windows, Office and the Adobe suite are practically ingrained into society at this point, and people are more likely to use the familiar, and fear or get frustrated with the unfamiliar.
This is more of a pot calling a pot black. The whole Kettle argument is implying projection. In this they’re not projecting just hypocritical.
Duck Duck Go > Google > Bing
If the world was fair, both Microsoft and Google search engines would be left behind in favor of a federated and open source solution.
Isn’t DDG using Bing though? What’s that paid search engine I’ve been hearing more about? Reviews seem to actually be descent.
DDG aggregates a few engines I think. Bing is among them.
I think you mean Brave Browser—it has actually been in a lot of controversy recently. Shady features that replace a sites targeted ads with ones that pay Brave instead. CEO seems like a jerk too.
Proceed with caution if you’re thinking about using Brave.
I think it’s DDG. I forget exactly, but i think I’ve read somewhere DGG has ties to Bing. Idk the specifics.
As for Brave, yeah. I agree. It’s good to be wary. Unfortunately, not a lot of chromium-based alternatives. Linux has ungoogled chromium but security isn’t that great either. It sucks, tbh.
No they are talking about the search engine.
Which one? DDG is free, and people keep mentioning a paid service.
Oh I must have skipped a line I thought they were talking about the brave search engine never mind.
The paid one is Kagi. I use it and the unlimited search plan just got a lot cheaper.
How much was it before?
I started using it yesterday and so far I’m liking it
I think they dropped the unlimited plan from $20 to $10. There’s a new $25 “ultimate” plan that also gives you access to the more advanced AI assistant at kagi.com/assistant. If you were thinking of buying a premium ChatGPT plan, Kagi seems like a better deal since it gives you access to GPT-4 as well as Claude 2 and Bison.
You can also use their lightweight search AI for free at kagi.com/fastgpt
I am watching their development with great interest. Not totally on board yet, but I was thinking of paying for ChatGPT so I might just spring for Kagi instead soon. I’ve been using the free Kagi plan for a little while now and I’ll hit my monthly limit soon.
Brave search is pretty good.
Rich person complaining about other rich person being scummier than them and getting ahead.
“They got away with more than me, how’s that fair,” questions Tech CEO.
That’s rich coming from the company that tries to force new windows operating systems on people, and installs its own boot loader when running Linux partitions.
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I don’t care about either, just want better search back. Does anyone remember when you could search for a specific product or part and the first link was to the manufacturer? Now you have to sort through sponsored content, various retailers, link spam, paywalled articles, video reviews (usually made by bots), and social media posts to get to the manufacturers website.
Yes, it’s clear Google search is broken. Even searching for things you know exist may not show up in the search results no matter how specific you are.
Partially googles fault but mostly the internet changed because how Google worked.
I blame ads. Because you could make money by presenting a fake Website filled with ads and shit,we are here now
I stick with DuckDuckGo, it stays as it is. Every time I go to Google I see they are messing with the experience, making it easier to end up on sponsored content and harder to just get what you need. Not so with DuckDuckGo.
While DDG uses Bing’s results, I wonder how much the two will diverge in terms of results as MS incorporates more AI bullshit in their search, if that will creep into DDG’s results as well?
How about shutting up until Windows no longer forces you to use Edge and Bing without the option to change or remove them.
Or doesn’t ship with one drive by default?
Okay Microsoft. Good thing your business track record includes 0 unfair practices in your history.
It’s a bold strategy, Satya. Let’s see if it pays off.
@l3s@lemmy.world your bot keeps reposting stuff.
Thanks for letting me know! Is it reposting stuff that it already has posted, or things that others have posted?
Not finding duplicates, but can dig in a little more after work.
Pot; Kettle. Kettle; pot.
Its funny this is coming from a company who aggressively pushes its own products in its os.
No ms, your search offering was such utter shit that only the AI boom saved you from the death it deserved and your attack on google comes to late - google is already falling from its pedistal on its own because they’ve enshitified the service.
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Missing all the users burning to a crisp inside of both.
Microsoft demands a level playing field so that its own unfair practices are able to compete in the free market of unfair practices. It’s the American way.
Y’all making pot and kettle jokes aren’t nearly as clever as you think you are. If the sheer repetition isn’t enough to prove my point, consider that we’re talking about a hearing about Google. Google is on trial right now, not Microsoft, so any of Microsoft’s conduct is irrelevant to the hearing.
The next article will be “Google CEO says unfair practices by Microsoft led to its dominance in the desktop OS space.”
Pot. Kettle. Black.
I mean, they’d know.
Tea, earl gray, hot?
Replicator: Beer, big, hot
Oh how the turn tables…
Says CEO of the company which created browser wars and broke standards to keep the monopoly. Same company which has so many lawsuits against them for the very same “unfair practices”. Am not saying Google is a saint, they are creepy in their own way, but boy is this pot calling kettle black.
You mean like Microsoft with Internet Explorer, MS Office and Windows?
Fuck this guy, Microsoft is just as guilty. Their business practices are based around limiting competition and exterminating it, the only reason they don’t have a monopoly on cloud platforms is because they were to busy trying to sell overpriced Windows server, SQL and office licenses to businesses and Amazon jumped into the cloud business first. Look at what they’re doing with Activision-Blizzard, the Indiana Jones video game from Bethesda, Starfield exclusivity etc. in the gaming space. This shit is part of the reason why I run Linux.
.
look who’s talking!!!
Ok. Not like they haven’t done the same lol
I very much agree with the general sentiment here about Microsoft’s substantial hypocrisy and what a bad look it is, but isn’t it likely to the benefit of consumers if these large companies are helping fuel legitimate antitrust lawsuits at each other?
I don’t know. This really seems to be something government should be running and not some corporate vigilantism. I feel like when I was any website that it hasn’t changed much the past ten years this kinda stalling out is what we should expect when only a few companies are running an industry.
Just look at what Microsoft is doing when selling Azure. Suddenly, they can offer good rebates on licenses. Sounds like unfair monopoly to me…
“We totally would have established a monopoly through blatantly unfair business practices, but we had to be a little careful because everyone was still watching us closely after the last time we did that, and those weasely sons of bitches at Google snuck in there first this time!”
Besides the hypocrisy, Google won search by having the best idea. There’s a reason we make jokes about Altavista and Ask Jeeves.
Google then used their position on search to take over a hundred other markets. That’s the real problem, but that’s not the argument being made here.
Google gained dominance in the early 2000s when the dominant platform was the
smart phoneWindows computer, which had a default browser ofGoogle ChromeInternet Explorer and a default search engine ofGoogleMSN search.Those were truly dark times
Maybe if they actually made them better compared to the then competition, this could’ve turned out differently; mind you, it would still be as bad, because Microsoft, but hey, different nonetheless.
Just enjoy the fight between friends.
Kettle, meet pot
Ironic…
Hey pot! It’s me kettle! You’re black!
Microsoft doesn’t know what good software looks like but it sure knows what anticompetitiveness looks like.
They know exactly what good software looks like. It’s why WSL exists.
That’s a bit rich coming from Microsoft.
Their product sucks so much that even their hardest monopolistic practices can’t prevent people from using Google.
Good, now the in-fighting among the tech titans shall begin.
Gladiator style only
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Fuck you Microsoft. Your entire existence is based upon unfair monopolistic practices, I still remember having to build sites for IE6 you sick fucks.
You spent millions literally on sabotaging your competition, and you’re still not able to create quality software yourself. You get to say nothing here.
Microsoft should be broken up, bankruptcy would be even better
They only avoided getting anti-trusted and split up like Ma Bell because W came into power and called off the prosecution. They have zero right to complain about monopolistic practices in the tech industry, lol.
The were actually found guilty of anti trust by the department of justice, but somehow they were able to pay their fines by supplying schools with free copies of windows. Fuck me
DOJ like
Break up Microsoft? No.
Help Microsoft further entrench themselves? Yes!
I’m no fan of either of these corporate entities approach to antitrust, but surely Microsoft is having a laugh right?
When you’re paid what CEOs are, a key job skill is being able to soullessly argue any ridiculous position regardless of whether you believe it or not.
Well they are always going to be looking for any oppurtunity to tow the company line. But this one is kinda hilarious.
Oh how the turntables have turned.
Oh fuck off Microsoft. Nobody wants to hear that shit from you. If you had your way our fucking cars would be powered by edge, and would tell us to play raid shadow legends every time we turned it on.