ICE Taps into Nationwide AI-Enabled Camera Network, Data Shows (www.404media.co)
from AcidicBasicGlitch@lemm.ee to technology@lemmy.world on 27 May 14:15
https://lemm.ee/post/65137311

#technology

threaded - newest

lurch@sh.itjust.works on 27 May 14:41 next collapse

and so it begins

WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world on 27 May 14:51 next collapse

All those decades many of us spent warning about neoliberals and conservatives working hand in hand to build big brother FOR fascism fell on deaf ears…

My disappointment is immeasurable, and my future is ruined.

oxysis@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 27 May 15:10 next collapse

There is so many damn things on the list, like why do you need 700,000+ ways to ruin the future

sunzu2@thebrainbin.org on 27 May 15:28 collapse

We will be enslaved and within few generations, people won't even understand what happened.

We already went through this process during industrialization and most people still think they are "free" to their day lol

corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca on 27 May 15:52 next collapse

Why haven’t you digged your suicide hole yet? It sounds so hopeless, that I’m surprised you’d delay this long.

sunzu2@thebrainbin.org on 27 May 16:01 next collapse

Lol wat?

I am sorry commentary on current socio economic conditions got you thinnkng of suicide.

I am personally here for the good fight ;)

andros_rex@lemmy.world on 27 May 17:56 collapse

The only way to stop this shit is to live and fight.

Dojan@pawb.social on 27 May 16:25 collapse

We will be enslaved and within few generations, people won’t even understand what happened.

We’re already enslaved. Abide by the system or be punished.

sunzu2@thebrainbin.org on 27 May 16:34 collapse

No doubt but there is degrees to it...

They want to use tech to tighten the screws even more. It is working well so far for them as the host is generally accepting the parasite

spankmonkey@lemmy.world on 27 May 16:05 collapse

continues

anomnom@sh.itjust.works on 28 May 00:56 collapse

Yeah since 9/11 at least. Really since Hoover.

Fingolfinz@lemmy.world on 27 May 14:51 next collapse

Stay strapped

formulaBonk@lemm.ee on 27 May 14:51 next collapse

It’d be a shame if anonymous types started working on poisoning all publicly accessible cameras with ai poison pills that brick whatever model you try to run on the footage

NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip on 27 May 15:03 next collapse

While they’re at it, why not just hack the government to reverse last year’s election, amirite?

I know most of us loved Mr Robot and watching dinozzo and abby double team a keyboard and Wolverine getting a blowy and all that fun stuff, but that really isn’t how things work.

These aren’t off the shelf pre-trained models. The model is a big part of the company’s product and, increasingly, the cost of training is being partially offloaded to customers under the guise of “tune the model to your data”.

And IF we have a Bones situation where someone has inscribed a virus onto human remains to destroy a one of a kind machine or whatever: That is what version control is for. “Hmm. The May 2025 model isn’t working. Okay, switch back to April”


Also, these “models” are a lot closer to just running OCR on a feed and logging which traffic camera saw one of the flagged license plates.

formulaBonk@lemm.ee on 27 May 15:08 next collapse

You watch too much tv. All you need is to degrade the quality of the recorded video on any camera exposed to the public internet enough for ai to have divergent results due to how ambiguous the images captured are. There are thousands of hobby projects that let you browse actual feeds from such cameras and usually that means you can get hardware metadata and in most cases change how the video is recorded by patching the driver running on the already publicly accessed cameras. Why make an exaggerated strawman argument while at the same time pretending you know better than everyone else?

Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world on 27 May 15:33 next collapse

This article says it is local cameras installed by local police that are being used for ice by the local police department.

Claiming anonymous could do anything about it by poisoning AI models is absurd. Then you call out the skeptic for watching too much TV?

Besides, Anonymous hasn’t done anything significant in 10 years They dos’ed Israel last year. Did it do anything? Was one less Palestinian killed?

sunzu2@thebrainbin.org on 27 May 15:37 next collapse

Prolly had to take a break while getting DDoS then obviously went back online and made up the lost ground.

These children won't kill themselves

formulaBonk@lemm.ee on 27 May 15:46 collapse

Ahh yes the local police! An infamous bastion of web security, IT infrastructure, and thinking long term. Who could ever crack the default passwords on their IT setup? How could we ever hope to social engineer these above average intelligence elite local cops into plugging in a usb drive to their work computer. This is all definitely impossible, no local police branch has ever been a victim of ransomware so we know for sure it can’t be done and deserves all the cynicism and comparisons to Hollywood movies from the 80s.

Of course we also know that by “anonymous types” I meant that one specific group of people you have in mind who did that one thing 10 years ago and not just socially conscious programmers with basic knowledge of social engineering and web infrastructure. That would be a ridiculous thing to mean of course.

Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world on 27 May 16:30 collapse

It’s your claim that Anonymous would do anything when they won’t and do it by AI poisoning that’s absurd.

If your initial claim was, “It would be a shame if someone hacked their local police.” it wouldn’t have sounded like you just watched Mr. Robot.

NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip on 27 May 15:43 collapse

Which is not an “ai poison pill”

formulaBonk@lemm.ee on 27 May 15:49 collapse

That’s fair, you probably won’t brick their ai model but it can make it useless for that particular camera output.

NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip on 27 May 16:17 collapse

Which… is basically worthless because of just how many cameras there are out there.

A “fun” exercise a couple buddies and I did a few years (… decade?) back was to just use an afternoon of plugging python packages together and scraping county traffic cam feeds to track someone, with their consent, over a few days. And it was ridiculously easy to get their schedule down basically day one and even get a LOT of data on who they were seeing or where they went after parking just based on when and where the car “disappeared”.

And that is just publicly available traffic cameras. Not the giant mess of speed and red light cameras and all the other crap we have in a modern surveillance state.

So even if people are climbing traffic poles and midlining over to the actual boxes to smash them? Those are even less of an issue than normal outages from rain on a windy day.

MangoCats@feddit.it on 27 May 16:37 collapse

In 2003 a friend and I were brainstorming what the next big disruptive tech would be and how we might get investment to start a company based on it. My conclusion at the time: cheap digital cameras. 22 years ago they were already cheap and high resolution enough to kill the film camera industry, and they’ve only continued on through today with color night vision, etc.

He did finally get investment and start his own company: automating regulatory paperwork for small companies that would be swamped in it without help.

Meanwhile, networked cameras are approaching “smartdust” levels of ubiquity. It’s like living around the time of Gutenberg and seeing the world relatively smothered in printed text leaflets, hundreds of times as many pages of text in less time and for lower cost than scribes. The changes have only just begun, and people aren’t really aware of how fundamentally life has changed as a result.

LandedGentry@lemmy.zip on 27 May 15:23 next collapse

You’re right. People should just smear Vaseline on the cameras.

sunzu2@thebrainbin.org on 27 May 15:27 next collapse

Some times the low fi solution is the best solution tbh

NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip on 27 May 15:43 next collapse

Bingo. Just make sure you are masked up and know WHERE you are masking up.

corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca on 27 May 16:03 collapse

Spray-pam be just as good?

NOPper@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 27 May 17:47 collapse

Spray paint. Krylon makes “stained glass” paints. Something dark and thick like violet would be pretty effective.

corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca on 28 May 03:34 collapse

I don’t wanna damage; just render valueless until a tech comes out again.

Tikiporch@lemmy.world on 27 May 19:38 collapse

Fucking Bones throwback, man! Good one.

GrumpyDuckling@sh.itjust.works on 27 May 15:45 collapse

I read that glow in the dark material will trigger an ir motion sensor. So don’t plant small flags coated with glow in the dark paint across from the cameras because it will cause them to take and send thousands of useless images and make them think their camera is broken.

raltoid@lemmy.world on 27 May 15:58 next collapse

Most of them will trigger from reflected IR, which is easy to do with some metallic mylar. Those emergency blankets cut into strips should work like a charm.

notfromhere@lemmy.ml on 27 May 18:55 collapse

That requires an IR source. The glow in the dark might trigger without an external IR source. So depends on the capabilities of the system in question. Some have active IR scene illuminators, some are passive.

raltoid@lemmy.world on 28 May 17:35 collapse

It’s been a while since I did that sort of thing, but from what I remember: The vast majority of “night vision” cameras are active IR, or sensitive enough that proper reflective surfaces trigger activity if they change a large enough area.

And the type of imagery these searches are looking for, would most likely be fooled by a couple of reflective strips blowing in the wind. Although I might recommend using strips of that reflective stuff on safety vests, that way you’d really “poison the pool”.


EDIT:

Don’t tape the strips across the street. Hang them nearer the camera so they occupy a larger area of the footage and triggers more easily. Although not on/close to the lens, that will make them notice too soon. You can even just tape a stick on top of the camera that goes up like a fishing rod, with some strands of fishing wire to reflect light in the moisture that condenses(basically a fake spiderweb).

MangoCats@feddit.it on 27 May 16:29 next collapse

Or, they’ll just develop downstream garbage filters and effectively ignore the little flags. Sure, some energy will be wasted, but it won’t be occupying too many analyst brain cells.

Source: I have such a setup at home. My camera goes crazy detecting motion in the dark, CPU usage goes up. Main thing I notice? CPU temp rises from 50C to 55C. That’s it.

GrumpyDuckling@sh.itjust.works on 27 May 19:58 collapse

These are also on solar/battery and use cell data.

MangoCats@feddit.it on 27 May 21:32 collapse

Might give them trouble in pre-dawn hours, might not depending on the design. I doubt the municipalities and government agencies pay much of anything for data usage.

Fun fact, most places the department of transportation pays nothing for the electricity that runs street lights - electric company just gives it to them unmetered - in exchange for good and valuable consideration like right of way usage.

NOPper@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 27 May 17:40 collapse

I work in security engineering, including massive video systems. With any commercial unit made in the last 5 years and any software past entry level consumer grade this is a non-issue. Especially if someone is using descriptive visual search when pulling up video vs just scanning through every motion event.

notfromhere@lemmy.ml on 27 May 18:57 next collapse

You’re assuming competence is part of the equation. Some passive resistance of the operators could make this viable.

GrumpyDuckling@sh.itjust.works on 27 May 19:56 collapse

As far as I’m aware these are basically just trail cameras, they snap a photo on motion and send it over mobile data to be processed server side for ocr. They claim they can also identify make and model and anything different like bumper stickers. I wouldn’t be surprised if their object recognition is just people in India. I also suspect that their OCR is, or at least was provided through 3rd party api calls.

NOPper@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 28 May 03:01 collapse

You’d be surprised how much can be done at the edge with current cameras. I’m not sure exactly how these particular ones are set up, but the other major players in the space (Axis,Bosch,Panasonic) all have pretty surprising levels of local compute dedicated to “AI”, and leveraging external VMS platforms can exponentially increase capabilities. It’s pretty idiot proof once set up, as it’s aimed at desk jockies that monitor and report with minimal systems training.

Again, not this specific system but this stuff is far from sci-fi anymore.

IllNess@infosec.pub on 27 May 15:03 next collapse

AI is only looking for the color someone is.

[deleted] on 27 May 15:30 next collapse

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einlander@lemmy.world on 27 May 15:36 next collapse

Green high powered lasers, they can burn cmos sensors. Also the iPhone and some car lidar sensors can burn cmos sensors.

Not the question is if the Flock plate readers are susceptible to this.

GrumpyDuckling@sh.itjust.works on 27 May 15:48 collapse

They use a basic ir sensor to trigger the camera, they’re just a cheap trail camera that sends images when motion is detected. You could put a black sticker over the ir sensor and then they would be wondering why it’s not taking photos.

einlander@lemmy.world on 27 May 15:51 collapse

True but a laser can disable the camera until it can be replaced.

GrumpyDuckling@sh.itjust.works on 27 May 15:52 collapse

You could train crows to peck at them.

GreenKnight23@lemmy.world on 27 May 17:46 next collapse

and this is why my security system will never connect to the Internet.

I’ve had cops ask for my footage before that sneer at me sending them the raw files. “why can’t you just pull up the app?” or my favorite, “you should use ring, then we can just send a request to them for the footage.”

sure, pig. sure. I’ll open my home as a part of your distributed network surveillance botnet. /s

spaghettiwestern@sh.itjust.works on 27 May 19:11 next collapse

It is surprising how difficult most camera companies have made it to avoid their subscription services.

Multiple companies that used to offer local rstp streaming have summarily removed support in firmware upgrades without notifying their customers. Even companies that support it (like Foscam) demand developer agreements be signed to get basic camera command information. Tp-link supports rstp but requires an phone app and Internet connection to configure their cameras.

Like you, I will never connect my cameras to the Internet, but we are slowly approaching a time when that by itself will be a cause for police investigation.

GreenKnight23@lemmy.world on 27 May 21:29 collapse

and that is when I’ll diy should I need any foss cameras.

FordBeeblebrox@lemmy.world on 27 May 23:38 collapse

I learned about VPNs and torrenting thanks to corporations like EA releasing trash with a price tag on it, suppose I’ll start reading up on low voltage security systems so I can build my own, thanks for the tinkering idea fascists 👍

cortex7979@lemm.ee on 28 May 03:58 collapse

you should use ring, then we can just send a request to them for the footage."

YIKES, thats whats called a weird flex.

bitwolf@sh.itjust.works on 27 May 19:17 next collapse

If America is so scared of China, why are we hell bent in becoming China?

Disaster@sh.itjust.works on 27 May 21:36 next collapse

just without the hope in the future, investment in human capital, rise in living standards etc…

vivendi@programming.dev on 27 May 22:43 next collapse

Something happens Americanly in America

Americans: “What are we, a bunch of üntermench asians???”

OwlHamster@lemm.ee on 27 May 23:39 collapse

Nice strawman

vivendi@programming.dev on 28 May 00:11 collapse

My man, this is literally what they just did. This isn’t an strawman. Atleast google the meaning of your catchphrase ffs

FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world on 28 May 00:22 next collapse

“Nice Strawman” is basically a bumper sticker slogan for people who don’t actually understand what’s being discussed.

Honytawk@feddit.nl on 28 May 09:15 collapse

No it is a logical fallacy.

That some people don’t understand its meaning doesn’t take this away.

OwlHamster@lemm.ee on 28 May 09:54 collapse

“I don’t want the US to become authoritarian like China has historically been perceived as by Americans”

“Oh so you hate everyone from Asia”

How is that not a textbook strawman?

OwlHamster@lemm.ee on 28 May 02:55 collapse

They were talking about the Chinese government and you turned that into “asians”.

Honytawk@feddit.nl on 28 May 09:13 collapse

Is China not in Asia then?

OwlHamster@lemm.ee on 28 May 09:45 collapse

The Chinese government does not encompass all asians. When people talk about the oppression of the Chinese government they are not criticizing Asian people in general, but an extremely small subset of powerful people, regardless of their region of origin or culture. Do you think this person hates people from Japan now too?

You are being deliberately intellectually dishonest, I’m assuming.

roofuskit@lemmy.world on 28 May 02:57 next collapse

But we’re doing it for profit, so it’s OK.

throwawayacc0430@sh.itjust.works on 28 May 06:10 next collapse

If we cant beat 'em, join 'em

<img alt="" src="https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/9b6646cd-98f3-4df5-b916-ede3d01d0a77.jpeg">

(But only learn all the bad things. Renewable Energy and Clean Transit? Nah, can’t let the plebs have a tiny bit of good things)

AcidicBasicGlitch@lemm.ee on 28 May 13:30 next collapse

The same reason this administration does all the things they point their finger and accuse everyone else of doing. They’re traitorous scumbags and hypocrites.

ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world on 29 May 09:56 collapse

Their problem with China is the supposed atheism, and that they’re not christian fundamentalists.

Moose@moose.best on 27 May 19:36 next collapse

deflock.me

Add any that aren’t shown by submitting them to OpenStreetMap.

altphoto@lemmy.today on 27 May 20:10 next collapse

A few years ago in SanDiego a proposal to install cameras came into being. They said the things were there for meteorology and security. The popo had to get a warrant to use the evidence on a case by case basis.

But soon enough:

www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/…/3703267/

If you don’t want this in your community or state, stand up for it. Say no to speed cameras, license plate readers etc. Those things are what keep Korean people under the government’s thumb:

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.today/pictrs/image/fe82d112-d384-4102-b6e8-d60591441458.jpeg">

They carry ponchos and umbrellas even when its not raining. They do it to protect their own against cameras and AI.

throwawayacc0430@sh.itjust.works on 28 May 06:11 collapse

Can wait till they ban umbrellas

lowleekun@ani.social on 27 May 20:52 next collapse

Who could have guessed that all the surveilance would be used by fascism? Ohh wait, everybody could have.

Auli@lemmy.ca on 27 May 22:13 next collapse

All is a bit of a stretch. I imagine a big chunk of surveillance is privately owned and not even on the network. At least the cast majority I have installed over the years are usually isolated or standalone networks.

Sixtyforce@sh.itjust.works on 27 May 22:48 next collapse

I think we’ve known this about Ring cameras for awhile now at least. Lowkey I kinda seethe about any neighbors buying that spyware shit. It’s not like the fucking cops give a singular shit about home robberies anyways.

FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world on 28 May 00:21 next collapse

I think we’ve known this about Ring cameras for awhile now at least.

Absolutely. Anything that can be hacked by some uneducated douche is going to be exploited by the government.

captainlezbian@lemmy.world on 28 May 01:11 collapse

But when you do experience a home invasion they will blame you not installing Spyware on your front door for why they won’t bother investigating.

Raiderkev@lemmy.world on 28 May 07:11 collapse

And if you do have said spyware, the robber could be holding up his drivers license reciting his social security number while doing it on video and the cops still wouldn’t bother pursuing the lead.

Akasazh@feddit.nl on 28 May 11:02 collapse

The thing is that nobody is fighting it.

DrDickHandler@lemmy.world on 28 May 11:45 collapse

Americans won’t fight it. Dipshits keep saying that there will be a civil war if things escalate. That will never happend. The Trump protests have been pitiful.

Squizzy@lemmy.world on 28 May 11:56 collapse

They have a second amendment for just such an occasion, but they allowed their first amendment to be limited against calling for rebellion. Now the guns just kill the plebs, kids and bystanders.

hexonxonx@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 28 May 18:18 collapse

Or the 2A people are perfectly content with their place in a fascist society.

SabinStargem@lemmy.today on 27 May 23:47 next collapse

My residence has a Ring doorbell. I wish that I owned the house, so that it was never installed in the first place.

r0ertel@lemmy.world on 28 May 00:38 collapse

I read recently that the lidar on many self driving cars can wreck the CCD on most phones. I don’t know how it works, but maybe parking one of the cars by your front door will solve your problem.

roofuskit@lemmy.world on 28 May 02:55 collapse

Cheaper to buy a low wattage engraving laser module. It’ll do the deed.

[deleted] on 28 May 01:31 next collapse

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carrion0409@lemm.ee on 28 May 03:43 next collapse

Not even six months in and we already got the ai surveillance state lol

[deleted] on 28 May 06:52 collapse

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