European iPhones are more fun now (www.theverge.com)
from return2ozma@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world on 26 Aug 2024 03:47
https://lemmy.world/post/19059540

#technology

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FireWire400@lemmy.world on 26 Aug 2024 04:43 next collapse

In two years time Apple, and every other smartphone manufacturer on the EU market for that matter, will be forced to make the battery user replaceable and that one will most likely benefit everyone; unless Apple wants to release two versions of every iPhone to comply with EU regulations which they won’t.

Fishytricks@lemmy.world on 26 Aug 2024 04:46 next collapse

When they do come to it. I hope its the easily swappable like the ones in Nokia 3310. Otherwise its pointless imo.

FireWire400@lemmy.world on 26 Aug 2024 04:48 collapse

AFAIK, the EU defines “user replaceable” as literally that; you open a hatch, pull the battery out and stick a new one in.

Fishytricks@lemmy.world on 26 Aug 2024 04:50 next collapse

Sounds really good to me!

Guadin@k.fe.derate.me on 26 Aug 2024 07:18 collapse

They'll make the replacement so expensive nobody will do it. And then there will be a new rule mandating it needs to be a reasonable price. Apple will say it's reasomable because it factors in environmental costs, and so the dance continues.

TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world on 26 Aug 2024 07:20 next collapse

Unfortunately, they do not define it that way.

And there are exceptions based on capacity and how long you guarantee the battery capacity will be good for. IIRC, if it still has 70% capacity by 3 years time, it doesn’t have to be replaceable at all.

FireWire400@lemmy.world on 26 Aug 2024 07:39 next collapse

Can you really guarantee that? I mean, it’s pretty much dependent on individual usage.

sugartits@lemmy.world on 26 Aug 2024 09:06 collapse

Sure you can. Car manufacturers do it today.

You will have to define “3 years” as well. It can’t be a blanket 3 calendar year thing, it would have to be X number of cycles which the average user would realistically hit with 3 years of usage. Not someone glued to their phone playing games all day that need to charge three times a day.

sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works on 26 Aug 2024 13:17 collapse

Yup, probably one charge from 20% to 80% every day or something like that.

EddoWagt@feddit.nl on 26 Aug 2024 09:58 collapse

And there are exceptions based on capacity and how long you guarantee the battery capacity will be good for. IIRC, if it still has 70% capacity by 3 years time, it doesn’t have to be replaceable at all.

I do not remember reading that, the only exception I remember is for devices that are intended to be used under water, which phones are definitely not

exu@feditown.com on 26 Aug 2024 17:50 collapse

Pretty sure the draft allowed “common tools” or specialised tools if they came in box.

datendefekt@lemmy.ml on 26 Aug 2024 04:52 next collapse

Just like with USB-C, which the EU regulated and now the iPad and IPhone have.

hushable@lemmy.world on 26 Aug 2024 09:01 collapse

no no no, that was just Apple being brave /s

Tja@programming.dev on 26 Aug 2024 18:17 collapse

IPhone 16, with 30% more courage

9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world on 26 Aug 2024 06:19 next collapse

Hopefully they keep selling a phone with no user replaceable battery. Id rather have the weather proofing than a battery i need to swap out one time after owning the phone for over 4 years.

jlh@lemmy.jlh.name on 26 Aug 2024 06:23 next collapse

Why only 4 years? The fairphone 5 is water resistant and has a replacable battery. The Samsung Galaxy S5 was fully waterproof and had a replacable battery.

9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world on 26 Aug 2024 06:30 collapse

None of those phones are IP68 rating

jlh@lemmy.jlh.name on 26 Aug 2024 06:36 collapse

IP68 didn’t exist when the galaxy S5 came out. The fairphone has a replaceable screen and is made by a tiny company that doesn’t have the budget for full waterproof testing. Often phones will have waterproofing but will not spend the money for the expensive testing for certification, see: Pocophone, etc.

9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world on 26 Aug 2024 06:38 collapse

Well then I like my phones a little bit more expensive then since they’re certified. Gives me peace of mind.

BigBrainBrett2517@lemmy.world on 26 Aug 2024 10:41 next collapse

I like how you keep getting down voted even though you have made it clear that it’s your own personal choice/bias and acknowledge it’s not for everyone.

I agree both options would be good 👍

FireWire400@lemmy.world on 26 Aug 2024 11:17 collapse

I mean, it still ultimately means nothing if it’s not covered by warranty.

The Sony Xperia phones back in the day were literally advertised as being able to “live underwater”; was there any guarantee that it wouldn’t just die in a light shower? lol no

themoonisacheese@sh.itjust.works on 26 Aug 2024 06:25 next collapse

How many times has your phone needed the weather proofing in the last 4 years? Mine is 0, at least twice. On the flip side, I have needed a new battery 2 times.

9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world on 26 Aug 2024 06:35 next collapse

Ive needed the IP68 rating a handful of times. I have needed a new battery zero times on my 4 year old phone. If I need the battery replaced, Ill just take it to apple and have them swap it out.

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/27474a47-8b9c-4eaa-8704-5f99400b3cea.jpeg">

Its still at 70% usability, which still lasts me all day.

themoonisacheese@sh.itjust.works on 26 Aug 2024 08:01 collapse

That’s the thing though, why is apple the only ones authorized to swap out your battery? That service isn’t free, and they’re massively overcharging you for it.

It’s also not impossible to build a phone that is water resistant and has a swappable battery, but that’s besides the point. Personally I’d rather have a swappable battery.

9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world on 26 Aug 2024 08:54 collapse

Maintenance is never free, so im okay with a service fee every four years rather than buy new phones every time they get wet. Im not saying my particular view is right for everyone, but its what I want. I get why people want replaceable batteries. No problem with it. I just would rather not have them. So if there is an option for both models, one with, and one without that feature, this is a win for everyone. If not, and only one or the other is implemented, then its going to suck for whoever is in the party that got left out.

rekorse@lemmy.world on 26 Aug 2024 12:13 collapse

Aren’t you being purposefully obtuse by refusing to consider the idea of a battery swappable phone that is IP68 certified? Its almost certainly going to happen with the line of phones in Europe that will have swappable batteries and it’s not even that far into the future.

I think this post is about change moving forward, not making sure our past decisions were sound.

9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world on 26 Aug 2024 13:42 collapse

Im refusing to accept the idea because it doesn’t exist. Who manufactures one?

weew@lemmy.ca on 26 Aug 2024 13:54 collapse

Samsung.

m.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_xcover7-12784.php

9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world on 26 Aug 2024 14:06 collapse

Oh forgive me. I wasn’t aware this device existed. Very good. Unfortunate its an Samsung phone, so it probably doesn’t meet the requirements to run GrapheneOS.

But good to see it can have a replaceable battery and be IP68 rating.

oldfart@lemm.ee on 26 Aug 2024 11:35 next collapse

I’m all about replacable batteries but come on. Two times I was out and came back home soaking wet because of rain. Many more times I used my phone in the kitchen or bathroom while water was splashing with no stress, which I wasn’t brave enough to do with a non-resistant phones.

That being said, I’d rather carry an extra battery or two like I used to than carry a power bank.

themoonisacheese@sh.itjust.works on 26 Aug 2024 15:55 collapse

The soaking rain thing has happened to me with a not particularly water resistant phone and it was fine. The water ratings are more intended for direct splashes and full immersion.

My opinion is that this is a comfort we can do without, especially given the ecology and consumer rights implications (not that a phone with a user replaceable battery is necessarily porous to water, plenty of phones meet both criteria)

IamAnonymous@lemmy.world on 26 Aug 2024 13:37 collapse

Not a good argument. This is like saying why do we need airbags because I have never used it. We need to have both the features, with water proofing being more critical.

gian@lemmy.grys.it on 26 Aug 2024 16:53 collapse

The two features are not mutually esclusive. I owned an S5 which was waterproof and had replaceable battery more than 10 years ago. It did not seems too hard to do

9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world on 27 Aug 2024 02:50 collapse

S5 was not IP68

gian@lemmy.grys.it on 27 Aug 2024 06:50 collapse

I know. I was only pointing out that you can have a waterproof phone and a replaceable battery. Obviously you need to do better than the S5 but it is nothing impossible, even wanting to keep the audio jack and the USB ports.

9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world on 27 Aug 2024 08:03 collapse

I hope they figure it out. Sincerely.

Nurgle@lemmy.world on 26 Aug 2024 07:20 collapse

Everyone will benefit, but have to imagine relatively few will buy tools to actually take advantage of it.

moon@lemmy.cafe on 26 Aug 2024 04:56 next collapse

Begging iPhone to play the catch up game and just have Android’s basic features lol

Remavas@programming.dev on 26 Aug 2024 05:08 next collapse

Except that many Android phones also don’t have replaceable batteries anymore.

1984@lemmy.today on 26 Aug 2024 05:23 next collapse

Hope it doesnt lead to smaller batteries though. It feels like it could since they have to put the battery so it’s accessible.

GeekySalsa@lemmy.world on 26 Aug 2024 05:51 collapse

But it’ll also allow you to just carry 2 batteries and swap if needed. Even if you don’t want to do that, when your battery ages enough that you can’t at all go through a typical day, you can easily change it out yourself to a fresh one to refresh your phone.

TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world on 26 Aug 2024 07:24 next collapse

Unfortunately it won’t.

This legislation isn’t for batteries that replaceable. More like “can be swapped by a technician in 5 minutes” replaceable.

Additionally, if the manufacturer guarantees (IIRC) 70% capacity after 3 years, they don’t have to do anything at all.

Michal@programming.dev on 26 Aug 2024 08:37 collapse

To be honest I prefer to use a power bank, it’s more convenient than having to swap batteries (i used to do that too) as you don’t have to power down the device. And one power bank can power many different devices, so i don’t have to buy a new one when i Change phones, and can use the same power bank to charge my earbuds, kindle, smartphone, and a variety of other devices, or lend it to someone.

Having said that, i did have my Nexus 6P battery degrade and had to be RMAd, lucky for me it was within warranty. Battery is the fastest failing component so being replaceable will go a long way in prolonging devices lifetime, but doesn’t have to be user-replaceable.

el_abuelo@programming.dev on 26 Aug 2024 11:39 collapse

Currently batteries are replaceable, but due to their design it’s unlikely to be worth the expense. Forcing them to make it user replaceable ensures it’s easy to do, and cheap - so even if you don’t want to do it as a recharge mechanism, it is still to your advantage to have it so when your battery does inevitably deteriorate you can swap it out at your convenience.

helenslunch@feddit.nl on 26 Aug 2024 23:22 collapse

Depends on what you mean by “replaceable”. It’s quite easy to physically replace the batteries on most modern phones. The problem is actually acquiring the batteries, as well as the new batteries actually working after installation. Apple is the only one that specifically programs their devices not to work properly if you replace the components in them yourself, and refuses to sell you OEM components.

riodoro1@lemmy.world on 26 Aug 2024 08:30 next collapse

Oh, here he is. I was worried for a second we’ve lost him.

cheddar@programming.dev on 26 Aug 2024 14:41 collapse

Never lose cum.

[deleted] on 26 Aug 2024 09:39 next collapse

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TrickDacy@lemmy.world on 26 Aug 2024 09:51 collapse

What the hell? There are literally full OS alternatives for Android phones. The comment is light on specifics and none of it rings true afaik

kameecoding@lemmy.world on 26 Aug 2024 09:50 collapse

I switched from android to Iphone and there is nothing I miss, I certainly don’t miss how shit the the usb in-ears were on android, all of them haf issues

TrickDacy@lemmy.world on 26 Aug 2024 13:52 collapse

I feel so lucky to have never bought into the apple mobile ecosystem every time I have to test any of my web apps on iOS safari. What a shit browser (which you have no choice but to use).

Not to mention having to own several special lightning shit cables to support my test devices. 🤮 They only switched to usb-c because the EU forced them. That detail alone is enough to know what a shit line of products they are cultivating.

But yeah takes me about one second to miss my android device

kameecoding@lemmy.world on 26 Aug 2024 15:49 collapse

I have switched straight to iphone 15, so USB C cable, not that I use it, airpods are lightning, not that I use it, since I am charging both wirelessly.

The website I work on, works for fine for me, so not sure what your issues are.

TrickDacy@lemmy.world on 26 Aug 2024 16:09 collapse

Wireless charging: because it’s always reliable, convenient, and available.

Do you support any older iOS versions? Anything that uses video, PWA or features added to other browsers >2 years ago? If yes to any of those questions, I have to think you don’t actually support/test in iOS safari. Which btw often works differently between iphone and ipad. And their simulator support only goes back a couple of versions, despite the fact that Safari does not auto-upgrade and is tied to major os releases. So if you have users with older devices, you cannot ever take for granted that your app/website will work fine for them without testing on either a simulator (excludes OS versions over like ~2 years old), or maintaining and testing on a physical library of devices with older versions that you make sure you always refuse updates on.

It’s abysmal to support safari ios unless you don’t care about lower income/education users who have 5 year old devices.

kameecoding@lemmy.world on 27 Aug 2024 10:56 next collapse

You are right, I don’t, because they don’t need PWA to use the website, and there is no video content, life is good, and those who can’t use it are dropped, we are not going to sacrifice developer capacity to support a very minority of users.

TrickDacy@lemmy.world on 27 Aug 2024 12:41 collapse

That’s the apple user credo. “If I can’t do it, it’s really better anyhow because I didn’t need to”.

A decent web browser isn’t deeply tied to the operating system version and isn’t 5 years behind on some features while pigheadedly refusing to ever implement others. A decent web browser doesn’t force you to use it. You choose it among other options and seek it out. A decent electronics company doesn’t force you to buy proprietary cables just to charge their devices.

Congratulations though, your website users are all wealthy westerners.

kameecoding@lemmy.world on 27 Aug 2024 13:07 collapse

They are the farthest thing from it, lmao, you dont even know how wrong you are, but I see you stí´ possess the teenage angst of ios v android wars

TrickDacy@lemmy.world on 27 Aug 2024 13:14 collapse

Okay, if “angst” means I routinely suffer on the job because of shitty apple business practices, call it whatever you want. The reason I have all these issues is that apple architected safari this way, and we have a lot of lower income users that we don’t have the privilege of ignoring. I’m guessing many of them know if they update their OS they will experience planned obsolescence first hand, so they have no choice but to use a 5 year old web browser that was 3 years behind standards on the day it was released.

kameecoding@lemmy.world on 27 Aug 2024 13:15 collapse

K

joshkrz@lemmy.world on 04 Sep 2024 06:29 collapse

Safari and videos are a nightmare to work with, there’s always something that doesn’t work right, when Chrome and Firefox work fine.

TrickDacy@lemmy.world on 04 Sep 2024 07:06 collapse

Are you me? I feel like I never speak to anyone who knows that pain like I know it.

stoy@lemmy.zip on 26 Aug 2024 05:50 next collapse

Immagine if Chrome wasn’t just a rinky dink Safari emulator!

Wow, can’t wait to not only have my data harvested by Apple but also Google!

FFS, stop cumming for Chrome and start using Firefox!

Squizzy@lemmy.world on 26 Aug 2024 08:14 next collapse

By the time the masses move it will be an enshittified fork of chrome.

Petter1@lemm.ee on 26 Aug 2024 08:21 collapse

Edge?

TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world on 26 Aug 2024 11:40 collapse

Opera?

lemmyvore@feddit.nl on 26 Aug 2024 08:46 next collapse

There’s no Firefox engine for iOS and Mozilla says it doesn’t make financial sense to port it.

vii@lemmy.ml on 26 Aug 2024 08:55 next collapse

What exactly is there to port anyway?

sugartits@lemmy.world on 26 Aug 2024 09:04 next collapse

The rendering engine.

Currently Firefox on iOS is “just” a skin around the iOS provided renderer.

elucubra@sopuli.xyz on 26 Aug 2024 22:06 collapse

I don’t give a mousefuck about the rendering engine. I want extensions

KLISHDFSDF@lemmy.ml on 26 Aug 2024 22:43 collapse

I want extensions

Sounds like you do care about the rendering engine as that would basically give you a true mobile Firefox experience and access to all the extensions.

stoy@lemmy.zip on 26 Aug 2024 09:04 collapse

Gecko, the browser engine?

sugartits@lemmy.world on 26 Aug 2024 23:37 next collapse

GeckoView more specifically in this case. But yes.

vii@lemmy.ml on 27 Aug 2024 01:41 collapse

But they do have mobile arm builds already don’t they? Of course iOS is very different from Android but it’s not like they’d have to do complete port. And it targets the same architecture that’s in macs and they have builds for it obviously.

Ghoelian@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 26 Aug 2024 09:02 collapse

Did they say that? Cause it looks like there is at least some work being done on this:

bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1882872

lemmyvore@feddit.nl on 26 Aug 2024 12:34 collapse

There’s been talk about exploring porting the engine to iOS at the beginning of 2023 but AFAIK the current state of things was that it’s a significant undertaking and probably not worth it just for the EU market.

[deleted] on 26 Aug 2024 10:56 next collapse

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sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works on 26 Aug 2024 13:13 collapse

It’s really not, Safari does a pretty good job keeping up with standards and whatnot.

Tattorack@lemmy.world on 26 Aug 2024 13:46 collapse

Wasn’t Firefox starting to implement some bullshit too?

mke@lemmy.world on 26 Aug 2024 16:08 next collapse

What do you believe Mozilla was implementing?

sushibowl@feddit.nl on 26 Aug 2024 17:44 collapse

privacy preserving attribution

mke@lemmy.world on 26 Aug 2024 21:18 collapse

Thanks. I know you’re not OP, but I’ll take this opportunity to answer anyway.

privacy preserving attribution

…is not as bad as many people think.

The best argument that I believe still has merit is this:

All websites on the internet—including ad networks!—are guests on our computers, and the content they provide are merely suggestions for a user agent to interpret and show us how it chooses.

If you agree with this—and I kinda do—then yeah, PPA shouldn’t exist. You’re probably a staunch user of uBlock (or uMatrix) and don’t want your browser engaging in any privacy-preserving attribution shenanigans.

But here’s the kicker: if you use uBlock, PPA won’t do anything. It can’t, even when left enabled. For the API to be called, ads need to get to your browser first, and uBlock doesn’t allow them to get that far. The only people really affected by PPA are people not using adblocking, i.e. the people being tracked all over the web, who would likely benefit from PPA.

As I said in a previous comment: if PPA works and is widely adopted, I can see the argument for how it’d be better—unfortunately, most people still browse the internet without uBlock. That doesn’t mean I’ll stop installing it on every device I can; I’m simply accepting that’ll never be every device on earth.

And for all that Mozilla is implementing “bullshit,” they’re also the only ones keeping uBlock 100% functional by maintaining manifest V2. They spend time and resources protecting the very thing that trumps their supposed bullshit. That feels not like enshittification to me, but a group trying its best, even while stuck between a rock and a hard place.

helenslunch@feddit.nl on 26 Aug 2024 23:17 collapse

Always has been.

2xsaiko@discuss.tchncs.de on 26 Aug 2024 20:18 next collapse

The more they get regulated, the better their stuff becomes*. It’s wild that people are on the side of Apple for a lot of this stuff, most prominently probably with third party app stores supposedly “decreasing security”.

Sent from my MacBook :^)

* At least when it comes to consumer rights regulations. I’m still mad about China demanding they remove the option to accept AirDrop from everyone without a time limit on iPhones and Apple then implementing that restriction globally for whatever godforsaken reason.

cevn@lemmy.world on 27 Aug 2024 21:55 collapse

If you import iphone from EU does it have these features or is it determined by the region you are using the phone from?