from geosoco@kbin.social to technology@lemmy.world on 22 Sep 2023 17:45
https://kbin.social/m/technology@lemmy.world/t/479299
The United States is already a global leader in traffic-related fatalities, with a thirty-percent jump in the last decade. That’s in contrast to every other developed country, which saw a decline.
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The electric Ford Lightning, for example, is a whopping 6,500 pounds. The Hummer EV is even heavier, clocking in at 9,000 pounds. Its battery alone weighs more than a Honda Civic. Experts have pointed out the significant safety ramifications of this transition for a while, but it’s still not clear that we’ve prepared the regulatory and policy landscape for such a transition.
Even if you don’t want a giant, extremely heavy EV, the tendency to purchase such vehicles creates an arm race for everyone interested in protecting their family on the road. That in turn causes a shift away from smaller EVs in a bid to feed the elemental materials needed for ever larger EV batteries.
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“Norway, a pioneer in EV use, is considering a weight-based tax to steer buyers away from the fattest EVs (the Norwegian government recently eliminated EV purchase incentives). France already has one on SUVs. Buyers of new diesel and gasoline vehicles must pay a tax of €10 ($14.58) a kilo (2.2 pounds) above 1.8 tons. The weight threshold is to be reduced. EVs are exempt, but as those vehicles become heavier and more popular, it seems they will get swept into the weight-based tax net.”
A smattering of localities have tried to prepare for the threat. DC, for example, has imposed a creative vehicle registration fee schedule that has heavy EV truck and SUV owners paying higher registration fees than lighter EV sedans. But it’s an outlier.
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Neat. Now do the extremely heavy, large, not-EVs.
Even a fully loaded F-450 doesnt match the 9,000 pound behometh that is the electric hummer. And most truck drivers use the F-150(or brand equal), which maxes out at 5757 pounds. (Min is 4070) Still absurdly heavy, but much lighter than the Hummer.
Edmunds lists the 450 at 8587 pounds.
www.edmunds.com/ford/…/features-specs/
F 250 super duty’s curb weight is 6718 pounds.
www.edmunds.com/ford/…/features-specs/
8587 isn’t quite 9000 lbs. Close, but no cigar. And the 450 is a ridiculous truck (which I just love tbh), but even in Texas, almost no one drives them. Biggest you usually see are 350s, or at least in my experience. And the 150 is just every where.
F450s are everywhere you just don’t know they are F450s. Things like dump trucks, tow trucks, ambulances, box trucks, etc are built on top of the F450.
I mean used casually, but you’re right.
Now I’m wondering if Ford just sells bare bones F-450s, or if there’s just piles of F-450 chassis out there.
Yes.
And a Freightliner Cascadia is significantly heavier than the EV Hummer if we’re comparing consumer SUVs to utility vehicles
A 5% difference is close enough for me. You make it sound like the EV part is where all the weight is coming from when the ICE versions are already there. And please, “The hummer EV is too much but the regular hummer is fine”? The hummer is just already excess no matter what version you’re talking about.
I see people commuting in F250s to their tech jobs cause they tow stuff once in a while, and they don’t feel safe driving the same size vehicles as 95% of the rest of traffic around them. Then they whine about parking spaces.
Interesting what I don’t see in this article. There’s a lot of different drivers for costs of car infrastructure maintenance. But one of the most important drivers is weight. It causes more stress on the road surface and decreases that lifespan.
I agree with the article, just weird that they left out the most compelling argument for a weight tax on ALL vehicles.
That's definitely true. It's also a concern for a lot of infrastructure like parking garages and bridges.
I suspect it's left out because the site focuses on tech, but I've seen a few articles looking at that this year. I think some states already do licenses based on weight, though arguably it's not enough.
Apparently, there's some loopholes that manufacturer's are using to justify increasing weights (eg. this ), and a similar taxbreak from some recent legislation for cars over 6k lbs.
I mean, there basically is, but it’s usually just factored it into something like gas taxes instead of having a specific line item for it. Since EVs don’t pay that tax, there needs to be a separate one somewhere.
In that US? Gasoline taxes don’t even cover the cost of cleaning up emissions, let alone paving the roads. It’s subsidized by other tax revenue.
Something important to consider with regards to weight and road damage, damage is proportional to weight to the fourth power. A little extra weight means a lot more wear. This is also why we should be shipping most things by train, as trucks are absolutely annihilating the roads.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law
Yep. No one wants ro talk about a real weight tax, because if they charged trucks their proportional share, shipping costs would go through the roof.
But what if we moved them onto a separate road, made of metal?
Thay would be crazy, they would all be running at different intervals. You would need some system to link all the cars together, with a singular engine. An Onomotive or something like that, we can figure out the name later.
Yeah, and it comes up a lot when people say EVs aren’t paying their fair share and should have increased registration costs. The biggest hit on road maintenance is big trucks, and it’s not even close. We are all subsidizing this industry.
Diesel cars are 50kg heavier than EVs in general (maybe I can find the study again) and they’ve increased the most since 2012 in weight gained
Plus they always give as an example, that e-hummer that weighs 9,000 lbs. that just shouldn’t exist. Meanwhile most EVs are 1/3 that weight
It’s 9000 pounds and is faster than 90s supercars. It’s complete lunacy, and I’m actually quite scared of how much more dangerous it’s going to make driving.
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A bicycle can’t move without someone sitting on it pedaling, so I think it’s fair to include the weight of the rider.
The Dutch have had weight based roax tax for a long while: link in Dutch It just does not apply to EVs.
They should also raise the gas tax so it’s cheaper to own an EV.
Make evs expensive, sure, but make gas more expensive.
Can we instead remove oil subsidies?
Same thing in the end.
… but why not both?
Because it’s easier to sell ending oil subsidies rather than raising gas taxes. Ending corporate subsidies has broad support among Americans.
I was meaning it as the meme “porque no los dos” but yeah I get it.
You bring the tax in for EVs first, and conservatives will either not care or even cheer for it. A new tax on woke cars!
Then after the next election you quietly extend it to all vehicles.
A bunch of those conservative states use large pickups as grocery-getters. If the weight tax hits them you’d better believe the whine will start quickly.
But not large electric pickups
Heck no. Screeching turbos and foghorn exhaust tips. Gotta make sure you everyone turns to look at your 36” lift and giant knobby tires.
Ngl, started reading the headline and thought this was going to be a tax on heavy people to combat the threat posed by obesity…
Same I was like “this isn’t the weight tax I was expecting” 😂
i love this type of policy. oh you’re rich? 😂👍 go ahead risk as many lives as you want
This is a good policy, there will be some people that be like “oh you’re rich, drive whatever” but the reality is this affects the automaker’s calculus so those heavy cars will be rebranded as luxury and smaller consumer cars will get more production. This is better for road maintenance, safety, etc.