schizo@forum.uncomfortable.business
on 31 Oct 16:12
nextcollapse
$30 to not have to deal with Windows 11 for another year feels like the deal of the century.
I love how they’re like ‘but you won’t get new features!’. They may have still not figured out that nobody cares about ‘new features’ being stuffed into the OS, but I guess you can’t have everything.
sunzu2@thebrainbin.org
on 31 Oct 16:17
nextcollapse
literally feeding the troll.
NegativeLookBehind@lemmy.world
on 31 Oct 16:17
nextcollapse
Lets_Eat_Grandma@lemm.ee
on 31 Oct 16:38
nextcollapse
I just want all windows games to run on linux with equivalent performance and without anticheat hurdles. After that happens i’m done with windows.
Honestly, i’m really not that far off as-is. Steam Deck already runs most of my library, it’s just the games that don’t work with a controller that are a problem.
Yeah, I made the switch to Mint recently and have been pleasantly surprised with how much of a non-issue it is. Open steam, hit install, hit play. Game runs.
Only thing I had to do was enable a single checkbox in steam to enable Proton for Windows games: “Enable Steam Play for all titles”
A handful of games need slight nudges one way or another but overwhelmingly it just works. Way better than it was just a few years ago.
CalcProgrammer1@lemmy.today
on 31 Oct 17:29
collapse
Except for more and more multiplayer games unfortunately. If you only play single player games, Linux gaming is awesome. If you play with your friends, the shitty anticheat situation means you may need to keep Windows around. I have Windows 10 just for Fortnite because my friends play. GTA Online just killed Linux play by adding BattlEye. Just today, one of the biggest online games that did work on Linux including its anticheat dropped support (Apex Legends). We desperately need a way to fight back against this bullshit, because it’s undoing all the incredible progress we’ve made. Valve needs to start banning games from their store for retroactively breaking Linux support.
Aatube@kbin.melroy.org
on 31 Oct 17:33
nextcollapse
I guess you could play Roblox instead and deal with child labor 🫠
CalcProgrammer1@lemmy.today
on 31 Oct 17:45
collapse
Roblox also doesn’t work on Linux IIRC. I don’t play it but it was in the Linux gaming news cycle a while ago that they broke Wine compatibility, not sure if it was anticheat related or not.
Aatube@kbin.melroy.org
on 31 Oct 17:57
nextcollapse
yeah it was their own anticheat. you can play it perfectly fine (except scrollbars are a bit fast) with Sober though.
The way you fight is by using Linux and contributing to the percentage of Linux users on the steam hardware survey. Developers pay attention to that. More Linux users means more support in the future.
Everyone wants to switch to Linux but nobody wants to make the sacrifice of being one of the early adopters to help turn the tide away from windows.
I’m personally gonna do a dual boot with windows as a backup.
I would just use my desktop for that use case. There’s still a small minority of games that just don’t work via proton but it’s really a minority.
I’ve also seen a handful of games with linux builds that just don’t run properly because they update the game but don’t do enough QA to the linux build or simply don’t put resources towards linux issues to the same degree that windows gets.
I ran PopOS on linux for years, every game I had worked, and actually performed better than on Windows, once Proton got to version 7.
with the exception of games that run multiplayer kernel level anti cheat.
** oh and almost all of those games use anti cheats that are compatible with linux/proton, and have been for 3 years, but the game devs/management just refuse to enable that support, even though its already included in their contracts with AC providers for no extra cost.
TimeSquirrel@kbin.melroy.org
on 31 Oct 17:55
nextcollapse
I just want all windows games to run on linux with equivalent performance and without anticheat hurdles. After that happens i'm done with windows.
That's one strategy. Mine is to just say "fuck it" until the devs and studios make their games more playable on Linux. I can deal with not playing some games to make that happen. That's not for everyone though.
Switching to a better non-mainstream alternative to anything always brings some compatibility pains until enough are doing it to where the tide shifts. I accept this.
Linux will get multiplayer game support from those straggler game companies when people show the userbase is there. They will always follow the money. So if you stay with Windows the devs won’t support Linux. So saying “I’ll move to Linux once they support it”, will ensure they will never support it.
My suggestion is to dual-boot for now and keep putting pressure on the game devs to support Linux. It’s important to dual boot and run as many games on Linux as possible for now to show in the steam metrics that more people are leaving Windows.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 31 Oct 19:19
collapse
As do I buddy, as do I.
But unfortunately, we only get “most” games running on Linux w/ similar if not equivalent performance. Unfortunately, game devs for some reason refuse to support Linux w/ their anti-cheat implementations (even if the anti-cheat solution works fine on Linux), so getting to 100% is going to take some time and a lot of people shifting to Linux despite not every game working perfectly. Most do though.
Consider that Microsoft will have supported Windows 10 for 10 years as of next year, I will say it had a good run. Considering the longest support cycle for an OS I can find that is even remotely usable as a daily is Slackware 14.1, at 9 years, and support ended for that almost a year ago.
No it doesn't. We have any number of free and open source operating systems to choose from that are already more secure. The number of people in a situation where they absolutely need to run Windows specifically is small.
Someone has to pay for that work. Either volunteers are donating their time, corporations “donate” work of their employees or hire it out because use of the project generates profits for them and they recognize not everyone can be a parasite (The FOSS model)
The other alternative is users paying directly.
If you want to use a closed source os, then pay for updates or you will be monetized on other ways. (In the case of MS that would be ads or the OS is just an incidental product used to drive sales of software or cloud computing)
RootBeerGuy@discuss.tchncs.de
on 31 Oct 16:51
collapse
Are you serious? It’s Microsoft.
Death_Equity@lemmy.world
on 31 Oct 16:25
nextcollapse
Windows hasn’t added any features of value since Windows 7.
iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works
on 31 Oct 16:27
nextcollapse
I mean, the HDR support and multi window snapping, as well as remembering window positions on multiple displays.
I have never found HDR to be helpful. Every time I turn it on it seems to think what I want was not better colors, but for all my colors to be extremely washed out on every screen.
iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works
on 31 Oct 21:27
collapse
Without the right monitor or setup, HDR can look not great.
Upsidedownturtle@lemmy.world
on 31 Oct 17:10
collapse
Powertoys and fancyzones in particular has been amazing with the proliferation of large monitors. Saves so much time and effort to configure windows. Don’t understand why it is an optional utility and not built into the OS.
Uhh, driver support and networking have vastly improved since Windows XP.
If you had ever done a clean reinstall of XP, you’d know what a pain it was to make sure you had your NIC drivers on a floppy or USB drive before you started.
SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 31 Oct 17:06
nextcollapse
feels like the deal of the century.
For Microsoft, sure. If they capture all Windows 10 machines, they’re in for a $21 billion payday. If they get half of them, $10 billion. A quarter, $5 billion. An eighth, $2.5 billion.
Your $30 in aggregate is only a deal for Microsoft. They’ll ask for another $30 a year after that and now you’ve normalized paying for security updates.
Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world
on 31 Oct 17:25
nextcollapse
If you think that’s a good deal, I have some NFTs to sell you.
I’m assuming that’s a Linux thing, because no one asked.
BrianTheeBiscuiteer@lemmy.world
on 31 Oct 20:34
collapse
Oh, you don’t have to ask.
I do this for free even!
Moobythegoldensock@lemm.ee
on 31 Oct 16:37
nextcollapse
“Enrolled PCs will continue to receive Critical and Important security updates for Windows 10; however, new features, bug fixes, and technical support will no longer be available from Microsoft,” explains Yusuf Mehdi, executive vice president and consumer chief marketing officer at Microsoft.
You have to be a really, really big company with an established connection with Microsoft to actually talk to the real engineers. Any tier of regular support only gets you the “sfc and clean boot” garbage.
Fuck that. I already paid for the Pro edition of 10 specifically for features Windows 11 doesn’t have in any version. IDGAF if it’s free; it’s not an upgrade. It’s a downgrade.
I’m a windows user (on my game computers) and have never paid for windows lawl. I’m not about to start now.
SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 31 Oct 16:43
nextcollapse
I like all the comments ready to take a fisting in the ass from Microsoft just to keep Windows 10.
If you raised a fucking stink instead of taking this shitty deal, they may be forced to keep supporting it for free anyway like they did with Windows 7.
They’ve really got you guys cowed into paying for the convenience of getting fucked, don’t they?
This is a company with a market cap of $3.04 trillion and you guys are just gonna bend over and take it for $30 bucks? Wew lad. They don’t need your fucking thirty dollars, and you fucking know it. It’s a god damned shakedown.
Microsoft: Wouldn’t it be a shame if your computer was somehow insecure and got hacked?
Sounds like a Mafioso showing up for protection money to me.
EDIT: There’s still about 700 million Windows 10 PC’s still on the market. If every single existing Windows 10 machine paid for this service, Microsoft would make $21 billion dollars next year off this alone. It’s a shakedown, do the fucking math. (700,000,000 x $30 = $21,000,000,000) Even if only half do it, it’s still a cool $10.5 billion.
EDIT II: This also normalizes the practice of paying for security updates for consumers. You really want to take us down that path where every security update is paid?
Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world
on 31 Oct 18:35
nextcollapse
Microsoft: heh heh heh, looks like you’ll be paying me $30 for that windows 10 installation.
Me: Bitch, I’m on Windows 7, and keep ignoring the OS bitching at me to turn the firewall on!
To be fair, that really depends what you use your PC for. Looking at youtube without a profile, and reddit and the news, playing music, offline games. You will be 100% fine. If you have to log into somewhere with sensitive data, don’t. But as a secondary device you PROBABLY will be fine. Requires significant discipline, to not accidentally log into facebook on it though.
See for exaple the fact wheter you ‘have’ to have facebook kinda locates you as an American. This is the issue with ‘sensitive’ data you may or may not know what it is.
It would make sense if Microsoft was liable for any security faults. I’d actually pay for something like that but of course you’re probably paying for some nebulous promise of something between security at best effort basis and whatever they feel like.
What an idiotic perspective. Microsoft has supported W10 for literally 12 years at the cutoff date. Show me another software product that receives TWELVE YEARS worth of free support. 30 bucks is fair enough. For enterprises this is play money, if you are a private, you could upgrade fucking 7 keys. Which means, you didn’t need to pay a fucking cent to MS since 2007. No one has ever matched this kinda support. Ten percent of this is considered fucking generous.
And herre is a thought for you. The reason why windows is full of adware and spyware is precisely because of dickheads, who won’t pay 30 fucking dollars EVERY TWENTY YEARS. This is your fault.
Microsoft got the grift of a century. Make Win11 so bad that people will literally pay you NOT to force them onto it! /s
Seriously though, fuck Microsoft - $30 per year to roll out the occasional security update is obscene! They can go stuff themselves with their $3 trillion market cap
maxenmajs@lemmy.world
on 31 Oct 16:57
nextcollapse
Please just force me to upgrade to Windows 11 already. I’d love to, but my hardware doesn’t satisfy some arbitrary requirements they set for Windows 11.
Turns out it’s just turned off by default on a lot of mobos. You just go into bios and enable it
Then use a program called Rufus to make a bootable flash drive but without all the shite and spyware, and just upgrade W10 to 11 in minutes
Honestly I put it off for ages because of everyone saying how bad it was, turns out they just don’t know how to customise it to their liking
Probably spending too much time trying to get their printer to work on Linux lol
alphabethunter@lemmy.world
on 31 Oct 19:19
collapse
My pc auto-upgraded because I donwloaded what I thought was just a regular update. I’ve been using 11 for like a year already, and it’s fine. Install powertoys, run christitus utility… The one thing that really bothered me for a while was not having as granular of a control of my taskbar, but that only lasted for like two weeks.
Look at it this way, $30 per machine is a helluva lot cheaper than mitigating whatever 11 will break.
Not to say don’t update, but Enterprise works on this stuff in advance, testing their systems with the newest versions as their Betas are released, to develop their mitigation strategies (including staged deployments).
Even there, $30 is cheap insurance if they need a little extra time to address issues.
For the home user, fuck that. Just ensure your security model includes layers, e.g. Don’t run as admin, isolate systems that are at risk, etc.
Hell, at home I run different VLANS for my own stuff (cause I do risky things), one for TV (because those things are terrible about security), another one for everyone else, and a guest network.
TheFeatureCreature@lemmy.world
on 31 Oct 17:27
nextcollapse
I switched to Linux myself but can we please stop lying about Linux being a drop-in replacement? There is enough sofware that does not work.
TheFeatureCreature@lemmy.world
on 31 Oct 18:31
nextcollapse
A lot of Linux users here think the conversation begins and ends with game support. A lot of us use our computers for work and there is a lot of productivity and creative software that does not play nice with Linux. I’ve probably said this a dozen times here before but I’ll say it again: Not all of us use our computers solely for gaming.
SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 31 Oct 18:59
nextcollapse
I’m a Linux user and I think the conversation should be:
More than half (over 60% ackshually) of Windows PCs in service are still Windows 10. Windows 11 barely cracks 34%.
People should boycott this and demand that Microsoft offer long-term support for Windows 10 like they did Windows 7 and stop trying to force Windows 11 on consumers through dark patterns like this. We have a year to make a huge about this deal in public spaces. This is the kind of thing the reddit userbase used to excel at getting word out about. Enough public outcry over a year could force the issue.
They made their own bed with the arbitrary TPM 2.0 requirement. They can drop that and they’d probably have more adoption of 11 overnight. These are business choices Microsoft is making, while ignoring the reality on the ground for a lot of people who never upgraded to something with a TPM 2.0 chip. It’s a choice to and a dark pattern to push them to upgrade.
I am kind of sick of the Linux users acting superior instead of being helpful to people stuck with Windows due to work environments, too.
werefreeatlast@lemmy.world
on 31 Oct 19:52
collapse
I’m a Linux User (fuck windows) but I’m stuck with the wife wanting to use windows. So yeah I’ll always be on the lookout for helpful ways to keep that shit software from causing security problems in my home network.
theres also a lot of productivity and creative software that does. linux for work is way better than linux for gaming and id bet 80%+ of people can work off it much better.
This exactly. I’m an engineer but day-to-day I’m mainly using the Office shite (I tried for suite but ended up with former and happy to run with it) to do my job. The amount of extraneous effort I have to make to do tasks that would have been simple in 2005 is completely ridiculous. Yet on my home computer running Arch BTW, I can do everything instantaneously, the only downside is that some supplier I don’t really care for wants my presentation in pptx. If it wasn’t for work data security requirements, I’d just use my personal equipment for everything because I’d be able to work so much faster.
Edit: not to mention a lot of FOSS software is better than the professional bullshit (AutoCAD needs to die), it’s just a lot more effort to get up to speed with because colleagues around you don’t know it (yet)
AutoCAD does need to die, but there absolutely is no real substitute for MasterCAM. I have a windows PC just for running that software, because nothing comes even kinda close. That license is expensive though, holy shit.
Whats the best replacement for Excel? LibreCalc is ok but it lags really far behind Excel in intermediate features. My close friend in analytics switched back to Excel recently because he got so tired of dealing with LibreCalc.
Also do you know if the Affinity suite works well in Wine? Ive messed with a lot of software paid and libre for its purposes but just vibe with Affinity best
Im not asking to sound rude im asking because im genuinely looking down the barrel of this OS change and I do a lot of computer based hobbies and work that are going to be uprooted by this
peopleproblems@lemmy.world
on 31 Oct 21:27
nextcollapse
Office 365. I hate it, but I don’t need a windows PC to use it.
Best replacement for excel is: anything that doesn’t rape your data whilst pouring sugar in you gas tank. /s
TLDR - R, Python, mariaDB, for real data analysis stuff + minor role for whatever spreadsheet package.
For hobbies / analysis / data manipulation , storage , graphs and general stats fuckery here’s my advice; as someone who does this stuff - “badly I might add” - for a shitty public sector organisation that just can’t decide whether to bend over M$ barrel or Oracle’s barrel:
use R (via R-studio if you need an “environment”) for more statsy stuff and easier graphs.
Python for more general mathsy / programmy / web scrapy stuff - can do decent graphs with libraries like plotly and matplotlib stuff like that, scipy, numpy, and pandas are the other basic libraries for analysis and maths and large datasets. peopl like using ‘jupyter notebooks’ - I don’t get it personally - but 50 Phil Ochs fans cant be that wrong.
Set up a mariadb or something if you need databasey stuff, I doubt you need to look at more hardcore stuff like postgresql for “hobbying” ; my personal (1 user) databases were built several years ago and mariadb is just fine for that. but some of the high vol transactional DB at work do use postgresql.
These are all good to learn in my experience, even if you think they’re harder than excel; ( are they tho’? array formlae!?). They’re sort of interoperable - subject to learning. They - naturally - have their open-source annoyances.: a million ways to do everything, and versioning issues. (Excel still has fucking vlookup() tho’ - talk abut legacy baggage - but no it’s not as bad as the open souce maelstroms).
You can still ouput data into a spreadsheet for viewing formatting and messing with stuff - but there are other ways.
Footnote: Yes I do still use excel, but normally mostly for final formatted report for customer who wants it. Having R/python directly write data into excel is so much better than letting excel open anything. Excel just can’t let an innocent SNOMED code go unmolested; you have to be on high alert if you let excel actually do anything.
Also spreadsheet for messy data cleansing - for looking at mess, to help refine the R/python cleansing script. I’d happily use libre/ods for any of these but I don’t fancy putting the request in to IT and . . . having to speak to IT about it.
sexual_tomato@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 01 Nov 07:55
collapse
Yeah I’m just gonna tell our group of 55+ year old mechanical engineers to learn Python; that’ll go over really well /s
Surely they have to use stuff like mathcad or equivalent to be an engineer?
I’ve never really used it but it can’t be that far off just doing the calculations in python.
I think there’s “sagemath” too availabe for linux - i’m sure that’s not as good as mathcad - but aimed at the same thing i think - and i’m sure it will interoperate with python libraries and R and stuff like that.
I know there are people who claim to be “good at excel” well i only used it for about 15-20 years but then i guess never got “good” at it - i just learned moreabout how bad it is. . Those that were genuinely good at it , as far as I think, did a lot of extra work to mitigate the limitations or create crutches for it.
I just got pissed off by it, so i was quite desperate to stop using it as much as possible - it’s just only recently i’ve been allowed to use what i think are more appropriate tools- and i;m grateful for this small, but likely closing “window” f opportunity.
If they’re happy with it though, who am I to judge.
But if I was doing gemoetry and engineering calculations and ultimately cad, I know i’d not want excel anywhere near my data or my calculation methods.
I wonder if age is really their issue, or if they just DGAF - again if that’s the case, good for them.
I on the other hand will probably be walking out when they force us on windows 11 however good or bad it is. /management has already fucked us with sharepoint and dynamics - so maybe i’m just as bad as them when it comes to new fangled shit like: clouds, data-lakes, fabrics and other MS shite. I just want our data on a proper fucking filesystem, that we own. And our data somewhere I can SQL it.
both affinity and photoshop run well on wine for me. there are native tools like krita that work well for less complex use cases.
as for office i use some basic macros and calculations and libreoffice works for me, but there are many choices that may or may not work for your friend.
admittedly, software discovery on linux is awful. the app store isnt that good on some distros and theres basically no promotion.
gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 01 Nov 13:10
nextcollapse
best replacement for Excel
I’ve never met a google sheet that couldn’t do what excel did unless excel was being made to do shit it really isn’t ideal for
Yeah it’s another Corp, but you don’t have to pay and you can simultaneously edit the file on 80 devices at the same time if you want
Really? So I could use my Wacom Cintique and my 2024 versions of Adobe Illustrator and Adobe Animator on Linux then? Because I use them to make a living and if I cannot use them on Linux easily then there is no point.
As a former Linux user from the early 00’s the biggest hurdle was art software and convincing Linux users that Adobe software means more than just Photoshop……
gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 01 Nov 13:12
collapse
Premiere Pro runs smoother on Linux than on Win7-10 ever did
After effects felt the same as PP
So far I haven’t run into any program wine/bottles can’t run. Closest I got was needing to install a second program through wine and run them through the same prefix which is not hard at all
ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 01 Nov 03:18
collapse
Honestly I figure “work computers” are often overlooked because many companies force windows for their spying “productivity monitoring” apps.
That said, there’s always “having a work computer and a separate secure personal computer.” The linux machine doesn’t even have to be particularly powerful, it could be whatever old used machine (w/o nvidia) you can get your hands on.
Right ok… But what’s on the other PC for the linux OS? And why should we bother having another one on a different OS assuming we can afford extra hardware?
The end goal seems to be to get everyone to have a Linux PC still even if people can’t use it effectively.
Edit for clarity I don’t get the purpose of the second PC running Linux if you already have the main work PC running windows cause you need it.
ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 01 Nov 13:20
collapse
I thought we were talking about linux being involved, so that. Why? Because of the whole “not receiving security updates” thing w10 will be doing, y’know the whole thing this thread is about, did I have a stroke?
No but if you need a windows machine for work then what is the purpose of having a second device running Linux? Like actually.
My point still stands. The topic sure is about Linux and windows 10/11 but I still stand by,
“why have a second device I won’t use, on second hardware I had to buy, that I can’t use cause it doesn’t run my apps optimally?”
Cause that just sounds like I should own one so I can say I have a Linux device for you guys.
You said we should own a non powerful personal Linux machine but didn’t give a reason why? Why should we have an extra device running Linux if we already have the needed windows. Downvote me sure but give logic not personal desires
ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 01 Nov 14:14
collapse
Well since this thread is about computers unable to run windows 11 due to HW restrictions, meaning they’ll be insecure when the EOL is reached, the point would be “to keep your personal computing secure.” If you’re upgrading to w11, why are we even talking about w10 EOL? Just upgrade then, what’s the problem?
Furthermore, if your company provides a computer at all, you may wish to have your personal computing done on something without their monitoring programs installed. Idk about you but my work doesn’t need to know I googled “boobies” at 10pm on tuesday, or whatever.
Finally, because while upgrading to a computer that can run w11 is costly, buying a used computer off a friend who is upgrading is much cheaper, linux being much less resource intensive and able to run securely and receive critical security updates on cheaper, older hardware can be beneficial to someone who can’t upgrade to w11 due to cost, or who is being forced by their workplace into using w10 (or even w11 with company spyware, really.)
Did I hold your hand well enough this time or are you still confused and being rude about it? Sure, maybe YOU don’t care about security, and in that case you shouldn’t, just run XP who cares, but for those that do it is an option.
Being rude is asking you to explain why we should have a second device running Linux?
And you wonder why there is an adoption problem with that OS.
ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 01 Nov 15:05
collapse
Just in case you’re actually unaware and not just bullshitting,
Right ok… But what’s on the other PC for for an OS? And why should we bother having another one on a different OS assuming we can afford extra hardware?
Came off snarky, thus rude, and is why I returned it in kind. If you weren’t trying to be rude and it came off that way by mistake, my bad, but it definitely seemed intentionally and unnecessarily snarky.
You immediately assumed people needed to have multiple pieces of hardware when some can’t even afford past what their job provides, being able to have a separate and dedicated machine is still privileged.
You got immediately defensive and felt you had to rush to defend the dangerous question because you thought I might have been snarky when asking? What the hell?!
And you are still doing it!
ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 01 Nov 17:36
collapse
While there may be a way to upgrade, general consensus is that it’s not possible and you should reinstall.
CosmoNova@lemmy.world
on 31 Oct 18:12
nextcollapse
Sounds like they’re about to get sued by the EU because they’re basically asking you to pay again for a product you have already paid for. Discontinuing a service that was advertised as the “last windows you’ll ever need” is one thing, but sending you another bill on a whim is something entirely different. Microsoft might just have ensured the longevity of Win10 for the foreseeable future without making much if any profit from it.
mark3748@sh.itjust.works
on 31 Oct 21:56
nextcollapse
Requiring a support contract to receive continuing updates of software that was very publicly approaching end of support, with published EoL dates for years now does not break any laws.
By that logic, no support contracts are legal in the EU at all, and no product would ever be sunset.
Default_Defect@midwest.social
on 01 Nov 04:10
collapse
Weird, you’d think that would have been the case when they did the same thing for windows 8, 7, vista, etc…
That was only for businesses that for whatever reason couldn’t update to Win10. Normal users weren’t eligible to get milked.
DaddleDew@lemmy.world
on 31 Oct 18:39
nextcollapse
Considering that when people paid $100 for that OS they were told that it would be the “last Windows to be released”, shouldn’t there be a class action lawsuit?
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 31 Oct 19:15
collapse
They weren’t told that, that was an off-hand comment by an employee (not even a spokesperson) that the media took and ran with. Source:
Right now we’re releasing Windows 10, and because Windows 10 is the last version of Windows, we’re all still working on Windows 10.
“Recent comments at Ignite about Windows 10 are reflective of the way Windows will be delivered as a service bringing new innovations and updates in an ongoing manner, with continuous value for our consumer and business customers,” says a Microsoft spokesperson in a statement to The Verge. “We aren’t speaking to future branding at this time, but customers can be confident Windows 10 will remain up-to-date and power a variety of devices from PCs to phones to Surface Hub to HoloLens and Xbox. We look forward to a long future of Windows innovations.”
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 31 Oct 19:46
collapse
Windows will be delivered as a service
Which is largely true, there have been a number of “service packs” that were released as regular updates throughout the Windows 10 lifespan. So it definitely seems they want people to not think about the specific Windows version they’re on. From that article:
Microsoft could opt for Windows 11 or Windows 12 in future, but if people upgrade to Windows 10 and the regular updates do the trick then everyone will just settle for just “Windows” without even worrying about the version number.
Windows 7, for example, had one major service pack, with a few isolated updates, whereas Windows 10 had a major update about every 6 months, and each one of those checkpoints was supported for about a year and a half. The final update was at the end of 2022, and it’s support runs 3 years.
So yeah, I think they met what they said, but the messaging wasn’t particularly clear how long that support would be provided for.
They supported your hardware for 18 years even when it was only meant to be for a single OS version and now people still had the option of upgrading but the hardware is just too goddamn old. I’m not defending Microsoft I also think the requirements are too high for 11, but expecting even more from your key is just ridiculous.
peopleproblems@lemmy.world
on 01 Nov 17:05
collapse
I’m not.
It was sort of a joke. I’m not leaving windows for the price.
Blaster_M@lemmy.world
on 31 Oct 21:26
nextcollapse
This is like people complaining about how Ubuntu 16.04 LTS support ended not long ago (2021-04-29)
Or macOS 10.9 Mavericks (2016-12-01)
Or Android 6.0 (2018-08-01)
Or Debian 8 “Jessie” (2018-06-17)
Or Linux Mint 17 (2019-07-01)
Or Fedora 23 (2016-12-20)
Or Slackware 14.1 (2024-01-01)
Of all of these, not even Slackware comes close to how long Microsoft has supported Windows 10 post release (2015)
DarkDarkHouse@lemmy.sdf.org
on 31 Oct 21:45
nextcollapse
Yes, but you don’t migrate to Windows 11 from those.
You do migrate to newer versions of those ossses with new de and backend lib versions, and all the breaking changes that entails which means spending another week chasing down broken stuff and learning how different things work now.
Which is about the same
WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works
on 31 Oct 22:02
collapse
windows 11 is not only about irreversible breaking changes
LunarLoony@lemmy.sdf.org
on 31 Oct 23:09
nextcollapse
Windows XP. 2001–2019. If 10 beats that I’ll be impressed
To my knowledge upgrading to the newer release of any of those linux distros was not blocked by having only slightly old and perfectly serviceable hardware.
NauticalNoodle@lemmy.ml
on 01 Nov 03:33
nextcollapse
To my knowledge upgrading to the newer release of any of those linux distros did not cost any money to the users, either.
Kongar@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 31 Oct 21:34
nextcollapse
Anyone still defending Microsoft at this point has cognitive dissonance and deserves what they get. Seriously people - just use Linux. And for the 1% of you that can’t get that 1% of your programs working in Linux - just dual boot.
It’s like people forgot how to use computers.
macgyver@federation.red
on 31 Oct 21:45
nextcollapse
This is on anticheat software at this point. “1%” of us can’t play many of our favorite games without dual boot and there are nitpicks with that that suck ass too. VFIO only brings you so far.
Most people who are fed up with Microsofts crap simply don’t buy a new computer anymore. They just do everything on an iPad (maybe pro) or similar without Windows. Gamers switch over to consoles, with Nintendo and Steam deck being preferred. Those things may run Linux like the Steam deck or another non Windows OS, but the user won’t notice or care since they don’t interact with it.
The time of the desktop and to a lesser extent the laptop has come and gone. It’s only for enthusiasts and people at work. At work people probably just use the same couple of apps or even just a browser with a webapp and never really interact with the OS. If it’s even a full computer and not a thin client connecting to a virtual desktop environment. People don’t know or care about OSes. Maybe they’ll bitch about Windows at times, but they bitch about a lot of things at work and they have no influence over any of it.
JohnSwanFromTheLough@lemmy.world
on 01 Nov 01:55
collapse
I think your right about waning support for desktop for general use, as in the “home” computer but saying gamers will switch to Nintendo or Steam Deck, not a chance in my opinion…the whole reason people game on PC is a varied story, for me personally I wanted to experience the best graphics at the time, what made me stick around is the realization that I can play any game I want from any console in history with any controller I want, I dont have to pay for internet, I don’t have to worry about backwards compatiilty and I’m free to shop around for amazing deals on games.
Your right about the average family home not buying in but your wrong about “gamers” or more accurately any tech person just switching or dropping windows
ohitsbreadley@discuss.tchncs.de
on 31 Oct 22:05
collapse
What am I dual booting if I can’t use win10 because it’s not secure, and I’m not paying for win11?
You can download the Windows 11 ISO from Microsoft for free. There’s a gajillon different ways to activate it for free, too. Most likely it will just activate itself, unless you built the PC.
But if you only need it to run some software, you don’t even need to activate it.
ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 01 Nov 02:59
nextcollapse
If whatever programs you need don’t require internet access and you aren’t at risk of evil maid attacks then it hardly matters if win10 isn’t secure. It definitely isn’t ideal, but if the options are:
A) Do all your personal stuff on linux and only boot w10 when you have to, offline.
B) Only have w10 and run hope.exe for security.
I’d choose A.
magic_smoke@links.hackliberty.org
on 01 Nov 05:18
collapse
Fuck dual booting. Virtualize that shit.
ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 01 Nov 10:21
collapse
Or that, but I’m told some things don’t play well in VMs like arcane peripherals.
magic_smoke@links.hackliberty.org
on 01 Nov 05:18
collapse
A pirated copy of Win 10 LTSC, since it’s the only version you should a been tunning any who.
interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml
on 01 Nov 14:31
nextcollapse
What we never needed was his billionaire ass.
LunchMoneyThief@links.hackliberty.org
on 01 Nov 14:50
collapse
Thank goodness the clouds parted and his holy billionaire visage emerged with the gift of [*angelic chorus] vaccines otherwise we would all be dead now (and he wouldn’t have made a 20 to 1 return on investment). Thank god for billionaires and their unquestionable wisdom.
AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world
on 01 Nov 14:35
collapse
I mean, that was back when if you wanted a home computer, you were building it yourself from parts from Radio Shack. Not exactly the same thing. I’m not certain that even Apple had the Apple 1 out at that point. I know they hadn’t made the Mac 128k, and weren’t going to for several years.
I haven’t ever met anyone that thought Bill Gates was prescient, just a lucky businessman.
Hmm, but did they say the last version of Windows, or the last version of Windows you’re going to buy? And if it’s the latter, is the upgrade to Windows 11 free? If yes, then technically it’s still correct.
itsmegeorge@lemmy.zip
on 01 Nov 07:41
nextcollapse
He was asked what they are working on now that they released Windows 10. He said they are still working on Windows 10 as it’s the last (latest) release of Windows and still being developed. Yes he could have worded it better.
I’m really surprised they haven’t managed to push Azure Linux into the fold. Release a desktop version, Find some way to make attractive for all those Windows 10 people ready to walk away. Then just slowly fold all the bullshit back in. They could even bring the gui completely Windows 10esque
InnerScientist@lemmy.world
on 01 Nov 16:09
collapse
The problem with that would be that it would make switching to another linux ditribution very, very easy. They would have 99.99% compatibility so a lot of people would switch to another distro if they add stuff like recall.
They would also be opening the can of worms that is massive software support for linux (which is arguably already opening.)
interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml
on 01 Nov 14:30
nextcollapse
No because platform capitalism has capture tge software ecosystem and leverages you own human capital against you.
it’s pretty dangerous not to be getting security updates. probably for regular users won’t be a big deal. i have a feeling really bad vulnerabilities will be patched even if you don’t pay for it just out of a potential PR issue. but i would almost definitely pay this if I were a business who didn’t plan on switching to Win 11 soon
on a personal level i don’t understand why anyone continues to use windows these days
JigglySackles@lemmy.world
on 01 Nov 20:15
collapse
For what I do, there’s very low risk of anything happening. As for why use it at all. I hate dealing with linux bullshit and mac is intolerably locked down. Windows for better or worse is still the middle ground.
there was a vulernability on the iphone a while back where someone would send you a specific hindu character and it would crash the OS. it can get you no matter what you do really, use or business. the difference is a business has a lot more to lose.
as for the OS talk…
I use MacOS on my macbook & Linux on my desktop at home. I don’t think Mac is intolerably locked down. I have virtually the same experience on both. Mac is a very smooth experience once you set it up how you like. I have the same command line applications, the same config files, the same firefox profile that gets synced in between them, same unix utilities that share folders/files as if they were native, can ssh from one to the other, etc
including windows in that would be a PITA
windows is clunky and the company pushing it is becoming progressively more hostile to its users. apple is greedy but at least with their OS it’s not pushy. it’s the hardware where they stick the knife and twist in terms of price
JigglySackles@lemmy.world
on 02 Nov 00:09
collapse
Glad you have something that works for you. 👍👁️👄👁️👍
DimFisher@lemmy.world
on 01 Nov 15:19
nextcollapse
I m a Linux user for 10 years now and well… I just wanted to say that, bye
Custodian1623@lemmy.world
on 01 Nov 16:09
collapse
In a way, isn’t this just saying windows 11 is not ready as a replacement? Because fuck me my work laptop drives me nutty, IT hasn’t locked down all the popups and I can’t fix it withut IT…
In a way, isn’t this just saying windows 11 is not ready as a replacement?
No, Microsoft has offered paid extended support for afaik all other windows versions at least as far back as XP.
There is always something that can’t be upgraded because it’s running some obscure software or something. At work we are unfortunately running a single Windows Server 2003 server because it’s running some software that’s absolutely critical and apparently can’t be upgraded (I should test that though).
Pretty much every hardware or software company in at least IT offers (often really expensive) extended support for old stuff.
It’s just the way of things. It isn’t an admission that Win 11 Is bad of any kind
Bottabottabotta@lemmy.world
on 01 Nov 16:10
collapse
Man, I would love a follow up on that critical app. When I started in IT we had a sole dev that kept telling IT things couldn’t be updated and I guess they never challenged him. One day I got sick of trying to downgrade to 32 bit windows and moving pc’s around to for the growing needs of the company while one guy dictated everything has to stay old and shitty. Found out that alot of stuff he claimed could work only on 32 bit windows or server 2003, just needed to be tried on windows 10 or server 2016 and it was fine.
I started at the company during the summer so I haven’t been around long but my colleague has worked there for over 10 years and my former colleague worked there for 20 years. So I think that they are probably right.
The software is also something from the past that not a lot of people use anymore. Unfortunately I can’t say what it is because people could figure out where I work very easily if I did, I believe it’s from the 80s.
My company is also the company that has used this kind of system for the longest time in the world.
Fun fact: I just searched up the software/system and I found out on Wikipedia that another company in the same industry had to reverse engineer and replace the entire system because it was just too old, and hard to maintain.
With that said, some of the servers the software uses runs at least on 2012 and 2016. I haven’t checked but if it’s a VM, I should absolutely just try and replace it and see what happens.
Extended updates always cost money, and this is pretty cheap relative to extended support for previous versions of Windows. I don’t understand why it’s newsworthy?
threaded - newest
$30 to not have to deal with Windows 11 for another year feels like the deal of the century.
I love how they’re like ‘but you won’t get new features!’. They may have still not figured out that nobody cares about ‘new features’ being stuffed into the OS, but I guess you can’t have everything.
literally feeding the troll.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/e681c2b8-0396-4c05-950b-d60b793d80ac.jpeg">
I just want all windows games to run on linux with equivalent performance and without anticheat hurdles. After that happens i’m done with windows.
Honestly, i’m really not that far off as-is. Steam Deck already runs most of my library, it’s just the games that don’t work with a controller that are a problem.
This is already true for the vast majority of games. 🤷♂️
Yeah, I made the switch to Mint recently and have been pleasantly surprised with how much of a non-issue it is. Open steam, hit install, hit play. Game runs.
Only thing I had to do was enable a single checkbox in steam to enable Proton for Windows games: “Enable Steam Play for all titles”
A handful of games need slight nudges one way or another but overwhelmingly it just works. Way better than it was just a few years ago.
Except for more and more multiplayer games unfortunately. If you only play single player games, Linux gaming is awesome. If you play with your friends, the shitty anticheat situation means you may need to keep Windows around. I have Windows 10 just for Fortnite because my friends play. GTA Online just killed Linux play by adding BattlEye. Just today, one of the biggest online games that did work on Linux including its anticheat dropped support (Apex Legends). We desperately need a way to fight back against this bullshit, because it’s undoing all the incredible progress we’ve made. Valve needs to start banning games from their store for retroactively breaking Linux support.
I guess you could play Roblox instead and deal with child labor 🫠
Roblox also doesn’t work on Linux IIRC. I don’t play it but it was in the Linux gaming news cycle a while ago that they broke Wine compatibility, not sure if it was anticheat related or not.
yeah it was their own anticheat. you can play it perfectly fine (except scrollbars are a bit fast) with Sober though.
Could you just spin up WIndows VM if you have decent computer like 16GB RAM and somewhat powerful GPU?
.
.
Valve did recently mandate games will have to share if they use Kernel Level Anti-Cheat. If nothing else it allows people to better see what games want to own their systems.
Highly suggest the new Factorio expansion with friends. Game is a shitload of fun and there is no anti-cheat BS.
The way you fight is by using Linux and contributing to the percentage of Linux users on the steam hardware survey. Developers pay attention to that. More Linux users means more support in the future.
Everyone wants to switch to Linux but nobody wants to make the sacrifice of being one of the early adopters to help turn the tide away from windows.
I’m personally gonna do a dual boot with windows as a backup.
So you keep using Windows to be able to install rootkits?
You can get a dock and plug in a mouse and keyboard, a monitor, etc…
I would just use my desktop for that use case. There’s still a small minority of games that just don’t work via proton but it’s really a minority.
I’ve also seen a handful of games with linux builds that just don’t run properly because they update the game but don’t do enough QA to the linux build or simply don’t put resources towards linux issues to the same degree that windows gets.
I ran PopOS on linux for years, every game I had worked, and actually performed better than on Windows, once Proton got to version 7.
** oh and almost all of those games use anti cheats that are compatible with linux/proton, and have been for 3 years, but the game devs/management just refuse to enable that support, even though its already included in their contracts with AC providers for no extra cost.
That's one strategy. Mine is to just say "fuck it" until the devs and studios make their games more playable on Linux. I can deal with not playing some games to make that happen. That's not for everyone though.
Switching to a better non-mainstream alternative to anything always brings some compatibility pains until enough are doing it to where the tide shifts. I accept this.
Linux will get multiplayer game support from those straggler game companies when people show the userbase is there. They will always follow the money. So if you stay with Windows the devs won’t support Linux. So saying “I’ll move to Linux once they support it”, will ensure they will never support it.
My suggestion is to dual-boot for now and keep putting pressure on the game devs to support Linux. It’s important to dual boot and run as many games on Linux as possible for now to show in the steam metrics that more people are leaving Windows.
As do I buddy, as do I.
But unfortunately, we only get “most” games running on Linux w/ similar if not equivalent performance. Unfortunately, game devs for some reason refuse to support Linux w/ their anti-cheat implementations (even if the anti-cheat solution works fine on Linux), so getting to 100% is going to take some time and a lot of people shifting to Linux despite not every game working perfectly. Most do though.
Totally thought for a split second that the white thing on the bottom right was the apple logo
Consider that Microsoft will have supported Windows 10 for 10 years as of next year, I will say it had a good run. Considering the longest support cycle for an OS I can find that is even remotely usable as a daily is Slackware 14.1, at 9 years, and support ended for that almost a year ago.
A subscription for continued support seems fair. (If there are no ads).
And at this point I don’t trust Microsoft to not stuff them in there as a “last update for Windows 10”
No it doesn't. We have any number of free and open source operating systems to choose from that are already more secure. The number of people in a situation where they absolutely need to run Windows specifically is small.
Someone has to pay for that work. Either volunteers are donating their time, corporations “donate” work of their employees or hire it out because use of the project generates profits for them and they recognize not everyone can be a parasite (The FOSS model)
The other alternative is users paying directly.
If you want to use a closed source os, then pay for updates or you will be monetized on other ways. (In the case of MS that would be ads or the OS is just an incidental product used to drive sales of software or cloud computing)
Are you serious? It’s Microsoft.
Windows hasn’t added any features of value since Windows 7.
I mean, the HDR support and multi window snapping, as well as remembering window positions on multiple displays.
Counterpoint, if you have two monitors with different DPI scaling, window dimensions get butchered when moving between them
This annoys the shit out of me on a daily basis
I have never found HDR to be helpful. Every time I turn it on it seems to think what I want was not better colors, but for all my colors to be extremely washed out on every screen.
Without the right monitor or setup, HDR can look not great.
Powertoys and fancyzones in particular has been amazing with the proliferation of large monitors. Saves so much time and effort to configure windows. Don’t understand why it is an optional utility and not built into the OS.
Windows hasn’t added any features of value since Windows
7XPI was going to say XP, but 7 is so much better an experience than XP.
Uhh, driver support and networking have vastly improved since Windows XP.
If you had ever done a clean reinstall of XP, you’d know what a pain it was to make sure you had your NIC drivers on a floppy or USB drive before you started.
For Microsoft, sure. If they capture all Windows 10 machines, they’re in for a $21 billion payday. If they get half of them, $10 billion. A quarter, $5 billion. An eighth, $2.5 billion.
Your $30 in aggregate is only a deal for Microsoft. They’ll ask for another $30 a year after that and now you’ve normalized paying for security updates.
If you think that’s a good deal, I have some NFTs to sell you.
I think it’s fairly optimistic to believe that they’ll stop bugging you with the Windows 11 upgrade even if you do pay $30.
If Microsoft wants to buy me a new computer to get me off Win10, they’re more than welcome to.
I just installed the latest version of Debian on a 12 year old netbook. Just sayin.
I’m assuming that’s a Linux thing, because no one asked.
Oh, you don’t have to ask.
I do this for free even!
Don’t threaten me with a good time.
Anyone who’s had to open a Microsoft support ticket can assure you technical support is already not available from Microsoft.
You have to be a really, really big company with an established connection with Microsoft to actually talk to the real engineers. Any tier of regular support only gets you the “sfc and clean boot” garbage.
Duh, they want the money
Fuck that. I already paid for the Pro edition of 10 specifically for features Windows 11 doesn’t have in any version. IDGAF if it’s free; it’s not an upgrade. It’s a downgrade.
I’m a windows user (on my game computers) and have never paid for windows lawl. I’m not about to start now.
I like all the comments ready to take a fisting in the ass from Microsoft just to keep Windows 10.
If you raised a fucking stink instead of taking this shitty deal, they may be forced to keep supporting it for free anyway like they did with Windows 7.
They’ve really got you guys cowed into paying for the convenience of getting fucked, don’t they?
This is a company with a market cap of $3.04 trillion and you guys are just gonna bend over and take it for $30 bucks? Wew lad. They don’t need your fucking thirty dollars, and you fucking know it. It’s a god damned shakedown.
Microsoft: Wouldn’t it be a shame if your computer was somehow insecure and got hacked?
Sounds like a Mafioso showing up for protection money to me.
EDIT: There’s still about 700 million Windows 10 PC’s still on the market. If every single existing Windows 10 machine paid for this service, Microsoft would make $21 billion dollars next year off this alone. It’s a shakedown, do the fucking math. (700,000,000 x $30 = $21,000,000,000) Even if only half do it, it’s still a cool $10.5 billion.
EDIT II: This also normalizes the practice of paying for security updates for consumers. You really want to take us down that path where every security update is paid?
Microsoft: heh heh heh, looks like you’ll be paying me $30 for that windows 10 installation.
Me: Bitch, I’m on Windows 7, and keep ignoring the OS bitching at me to turn the firewall on!
if that is connected to the internet, its probably infested
It’s fiiiiiiine! What’s the worst that could happen?
<img alt="" src="https://c.tenor.com/immR5LCLQv4AAAAd/tenor.gif">
To be fair, that really depends what you use your PC for. Looking at youtube without a profile, and reddit and the news, playing music, offline games. You will be 100% fine. If you have to log into somewhere with sensitive data, don’t. But as a secondary device you PROBABLY will be fine. Requires significant discipline, to not accidentally log into facebook on it though.
Me not logging into facebook doesn’t require discipline. I haven’t done it in…
checks time
…ever.
Now, I DO log into government nuke code websites. And I also check Burger King’s website. Just to see if they still sell burgers.
As of last week…they do!
See for exaple the fact wheter you ‘have’ to have facebook kinda locates you as an American. This is the issue with ‘sensitive’ data you may or may not know what it is.
How?
unpatched vulnerabilities
Why are people on your LAN exploiting vulnerabilities on your computer? Don’t you also have a network firewall and NAT?
The biggest danger isn’t viruses sneaking their way in, it’s from the web browser and email client.
It would make sense if Microsoft was liable for any security faults. I’d actually pay for something like that but of course you’re probably paying for some nebulous promise of something between security at best effort basis and whatever they feel like.
What an idiotic perspective. Microsoft has supported W10 for literally 12 years at the cutoff date. Show me another software product that receives TWELVE YEARS worth of free support. 30 bucks is fair enough. For enterprises this is play money, if you are a private, you could upgrade fucking 7 keys. Which means, you didn’t need to pay a fucking cent to MS since 2007. No one has ever matched this kinda support. Ten percent of this is considered fucking generous.
And herre is a thought for you. The reason why windows is full of adware and spyware is precisely because of dickheads, who won’t pay 30 fucking dollars EVERY TWENTY YEARS. This is your fault.
Microsoft got the grift of a century. Make Win11 so bad that people will literally pay you NOT to force them onto it! /s
Seriously though, fuck Microsoft - $30 per year to roll out the occasional security update is obscene! They can go stuff themselves with their $3 trillion market cap
Please just force me to upgrade to Windows 11 already. I’d love to, but my hardware doesn’t satisfy some arbitrary requirements they set for Windows 11.
I thought that too, with the TPM thing
Turns out it’s just turned off by default on a lot of mobos. You just go into bios and enable it
Then use a program called Rufus to make a bootable flash drive but without all the shite and spyware, and just upgrade W10 to 11 in minutes
Honestly I put it off for ages because of everyone saying how bad it was, turns out they just don’t know how to customise it to their liking
Probably spending too much time trying to get their printer to work on Linux lol
My pc auto-upgraded because I donwloaded what I thought was just a regular update. I’ve been using 11 for like a year already, and it’s fine. Install powertoys, run christitus utility… The one thing that really bothered me for a while was not having as granular of a control of my taskbar, but that only lasted for like two weeks.
Mine doesn’t satisfy them, either. I switched off TPM in BIOS.
What Windows 10?🖕🐧
I bet they would be willing to do it right while you are in the middle of something important if you paid them an extra $30 on top of that.
My company has absolutely no plan for the end of Windows 10. I bet they’ll rather throw money at MS than come up with some kind of strategy.
Look at it this way, $30 per machine is a helluva lot cheaper than mitigating whatever 11 will break.
Not to say don’t update, but Enterprise works on this stuff in advance, testing their systems with the newest versions as their Betas are released, to develop their mitigation strategies (including staged deployments).
Even there, $30 is cheap insurance if they need a little extra time to address issues.
For the home user, fuck that. Just ensure your security model includes layers, e.g. Don’t run as admin, isolate systems that are at risk, etc.
Hell, at home I run different VLANS for my own stuff (cause I do risky things), one for TV (because those things are terrible about security), another one for everyone else, and a guest network.
I expected them to charge more, to be honest.
like win7 esu subscription?
that was $50 first year, $100 second year, $200 third year, per pc, plus upgrade cost to pro if you had a lesser edition.
Why l would pay 30$ to dumpester fire OS to use it securely for another year when l could install Linux for free with more than 7 year security?
And consumers can only pay for single year.
It just shows how M$ doesn’t care about their costumers treating them like lab rats.
I switched to Linux myself but can we please stop lying about Linux being a drop-in replacement? There is enough sofware that does not work.
A lot of Linux users here think the conversation begins and ends with game support. A lot of us use our computers for work and there is a lot of productivity and creative software that does not play nice with Linux. I’ve probably said this a dozen times here before but I’ll say it again: Not all of us use our computers solely for gaming.
I’m a Linux user and I think the conversation should be:
More than half (over 60% ackshually) of Windows PCs in service are still Windows 10. Windows 11 barely cracks 34%.
People should boycott this and demand that Microsoft offer long-term support for Windows 10 like they did Windows 7 and stop trying to force Windows 11 on consumers through dark patterns like this. We have a year to make a huge about this deal in public spaces. This is the kind of thing the reddit userbase used to excel at getting word out about. Enough public outcry over a year could force the issue.
They made their own bed with the arbitrary TPM 2.0 requirement. They can drop that and they’d probably have more adoption of 11 overnight. These are business choices Microsoft is making, while ignoring the reality on the ground for a lot of people who never upgraded to something with a TPM 2.0 chip. It’s a choice to and a dark pattern to push them to upgrade.
I am kind of sick of the Linux users acting superior instead of being helpful to people stuck with Windows due to work environments, too.
I’m a Linux User (fuck windows) but I’m stuck with the wife wanting to use windows. So yeah I’ll always be on the lookout for helpful ways to keep that shit software from causing security problems in my home network.
theres also a lot of productivity and creative software that does. linux for work is way better than linux for gaming and id bet 80%+ of people can work off it much better.
This exactly. I’m an engineer but day-to-day I’m mainly using the Office shite (I tried for suite but ended up with former and happy to run with it) to do my job. The amount of extraneous effort I have to make to do tasks that would have been simple in 2005 is completely ridiculous. Yet on my home computer running Arch BTW, I can do everything instantaneously, the only downside is that some supplier I don’t really care for wants my presentation in pptx. If it wasn’t for work data security requirements, I’d just use my personal equipment for everything because I’d be able to work so much faster.
Edit: not to mention a lot of FOSS software is better than the professional bullshit (AutoCAD needs to die), it’s just a lot more effort to get up to speed with because colleagues around you don’t know it (yet)
AutoCAD does need to die, but there absolutely is no real substitute for MasterCAM. I have a windows PC just for running that software, because nothing comes even kinda close. That license is expensive though, holy shit.
Whats the best replacement for Excel? LibreCalc is ok but it lags really far behind Excel in intermediate features. My close friend in analytics switched back to Excel recently because he got so tired of dealing with LibreCalc.
Also do you know if the Affinity suite works well in Wine? Ive messed with a lot of software paid and libre for its purposes but just vibe with Affinity best
Im not asking to sound rude im asking because im genuinely looking down the barrel of this OS change and I do a lot of computer based hobbies and work that are going to be uprooted by this
Office 365. I hate it, but I don’t need a windows PC to use it.
Best replacement for excel is: anything that doesn’t rape your data whilst pouring sugar in you gas tank. /s
TLDR - R, Python, mariaDB, for real data analysis stuff + minor role for whatever spreadsheet package.
For hobbies / analysis / data manipulation , storage , graphs and general stats fuckery here’s my advice; as someone who does this stuff - “badly I might add” - for a shitty public sector organisation that just can’t decide whether to bend over M$ barrel or Oracle’s barrel:
use R (via R-studio if you need an “environment”) for more statsy stuff and easier graphs.
Python for more general mathsy / programmy / web scrapy stuff - can do decent graphs with libraries like plotly and matplotlib stuff like that, scipy, numpy, and pandas are the other basic libraries for analysis and maths and large datasets. peopl like using ‘jupyter notebooks’ - I don’t get it personally - but 50 Phil Ochs fans cant be that wrong.
Set up a mariadb or something if you need databasey stuff, I doubt you need to look at more hardcore stuff like postgresql for “hobbying” ; my personal (1 user) databases were built several years ago and mariadb is just fine for that. but some of the high vol transactional DB at work do use postgresql.
These are all good to learn in my experience, even if you think they’re harder than excel; ( are they tho’? array formlae!?). They’re sort of interoperable - subject to learning. They - naturally - have their open-source annoyances.: a million ways to do everything, and versioning issues. (Excel still has fucking vlookup() tho’ - talk abut legacy baggage - but no it’s not as bad as the open souce maelstroms).
You can still ouput data into a spreadsheet for viewing formatting and messing with stuff - but there are other ways.
Footnote: Yes I do still use excel, but normally mostly for final formatted report for customer who wants it. Having R/python directly write data into excel is so much better than letting excel open anything. Excel just can’t let an innocent SNOMED code go unmolested; you have to be on high alert if you let excel actually do anything.
Also spreadsheet for messy data cleansing - for looking at mess, to help refine the R/python cleansing script. I’d happily use libre/ods for any of these but I don’t fancy putting the request in to IT and . . . having to speak to IT about it.
Yeah I’m just gonna tell our group of 55+ year old mechanical engineers to learn Python; that’ll go over really well /s
Surely they have to use stuff like mathcad or equivalent to be an engineer? I’ve never really used it but it can’t be that far off just doing the calculations in python. I think there’s “sagemath” too availabe for linux - i’m sure that’s not as good as mathcad - but aimed at the same thing i think - and i’m sure it will interoperate with python libraries and R and stuff like that.
I know there are people who claim to be “good at excel” well i only used it for about 15-20 years but then i guess never got “good” at it - i just learned moreabout how bad it is. . Those that were genuinely good at it , as far as I think, did a lot of extra work to mitigate the limitations or create crutches for it. I just got pissed off by it, so i was quite desperate to stop using it as much as possible - it’s just only recently i’ve been allowed to use what i think are more appropriate tools- and i;m grateful for this small, but likely closing “window” f opportunity.
If they’re happy with it though, who am I to judge. But if I was doing gemoetry and engineering calculations and ultimately cad, I know i’d not want excel anywhere near my data or my calculation methods.
I wonder if age is really their issue, or if they just DGAF - again if that’s the case, good for them.
I on the other hand will probably be walking out when they force us on windows 11 however good or bad it is. /management has already fucked us with sharepoint and dynamics - so maybe i’m just as bad as them when it comes to new fangled shit like: clouds, data-lakes, fabrics and other MS shite. I just want our data on a proper fucking filesystem, that we own. And our data somewhere I can SQL it.
both affinity and photoshop run well on wine for me. there are native tools like krita that work well for less complex use cases.
as for office i use some basic macros and calculations and libreoffice works for me, but there are many choices that may or may not work for your friend.
admittedly, software discovery on linux is awful. the app store isnt that good on some distros and theres basically no promotion.
I’ve never met a google sheet that couldn’t do what excel did unless excel was being made to do shit it really isn’t ideal for
Yeah it’s another Corp, but you don’t have to pay and you can simultaneously edit the file on 80 devices at the same time if you want
only office works well for me, feels much closer to word and excel
Have you tried Bottles and/or Wine?
I’ve never had a problem running anything from the Adobe or Microsoft Suite for example, in fact I think they run waaay smoother on linux
But yea I get it, a lot of people associate compatibility with gaming only.
Really? So I could use my Wacom Cintique and my 2024 versions of Adobe Illustrator and Adobe Animator on Linux then? Because I use them to make a living and if I cannot use them on Linux easily then there is no point.
As a former Linux user from the early 00’s the biggest hurdle was art software and convincing Linux users that Adobe software means more than just Photoshop……
Premiere Pro runs smoother on Linux than on Win7-10 ever did
After effects felt the same as PP
So far I haven’t run into any program wine/bottles can’t run. Closest I got was needing to install a second program through wine and run them through the same prefix which is not hard at all
Honestly I figure “work computers” are often overlooked because many companies force windows for their
spying“productivity monitoring” apps.That said, there’s always “having a work computer and a separate secure personal computer.” The linux machine doesn’t even have to be particularly powerful, it could be whatever old used machine (w/o nvidia) you can get your hands on.
Right ok… But what’s on the other PC for the linux OS? And why should we bother having another one on a different OS assuming we can afford extra hardware?
The end goal seems to be to get everyone to have a Linux PC still even if people can’t use it effectively.
Edit for clarity I don’t get the purpose of the second PC running Linux if you already have the main work PC running windows cause you need it.
I thought we were talking about linux being involved, so that. Why? Because of the whole “not receiving security updates” thing w10 will be doing, y’know the whole thing this thread is about, did I have a stroke?
Well, get good I guess.
No but if you need a windows machine for work then what is the purpose of having a second device running Linux? Like actually.
My point still stands. The topic sure is about Linux and windows 10/11 but I still stand by,
“why have a second device I won’t use, on second hardware I had to buy, that I can’t use cause it doesn’t run my apps optimally?”
Cause that just sounds like I should own one so I can say I have a Linux device for you guys.
You said we should own a non powerful personal Linux machine but didn’t give a reason why? Why should we have an extra device running Linux if we already have the needed windows. Downvote me sure but give logic not personal desires
Well since this thread is about computers unable to run windows 11 due to HW restrictions, meaning they’ll be insecure when the EOL is reached, the point would be “to keep your personal computing secure.” If you’re upgrading to w11, why are we even talking about w10 EOL? Just upgrade then, what’s the problem?
Furthermore, if your company provides a computer at all, you may wish to have your personal computing done on something without their monitoring programs installed. Idk about you but my work doesn’t need to know I googled “boobies” at 10pm on tuesday, or whatever.
Finally, because while upgrading to a computer that can run w11 is costly, buying a used computer off a friend who is upgrading is much cheaper, linux being much less resource intensive and able to run securely and receive critical security updates on cheaper, older hardware can be beneficial to someone who can’t upgrade to w11 due to cost, or who is being forced by their workplace into using w10 (or even w11 with company spyware, really.)
Did I hold your hand well enough this time or are you still confused and being rude about it? Sure, maybe YOU don’t care about security, and in that case you shouldn’t, just run XP who cares, but for those that do it is an option.
Being rude is asking you to explain why we should have a second device running Linux?
And you wonder why there is an adoption problem with that OS.
Just in case you’re actually unaware and not just bullshitting,
Came off snarky, thus rude, and is why I returned it in kind. If you weren’t trying to be rude and it came off that way by mistake, my bad, but it definitely seemed intentionally and unnecessarily snarky.
You immediately assumed people needed to have multiple pieces of hardware when some can’t even afford past what their job provides, being able to have a separate and dedicated machine is still privileged.
You got immediately defensive and felt you had to rush to defend the dangerous question because you thought I might have been snarky when asking? What the hell?!
And you are still doing it!
You HAVE to be trolling lol.
And you have to be a jerk apparently.
no u
Absolutely. Especially software that has to interface with specific hardware, which often times can have issues working properly with Windows VMs.
I can just dedicate some old hardware for baremetal Win10, but not everyone has that luxury.
What Linux software doesn’t work?
You took this out of the context it was in.
It comes with a free frozen yogurt. That Microsoft calls frogurt.
…you sob, I’m in.
His name is Neil!
They don’t expect home users to pay. Remember that they often refuse to even reboot their computers to receive security updates.
Extended support is pretty much intended exclusively for enterprises.
If you’re somewhat tech savvy, don’t have anything against the high seas and absolutely need Windows, look into Windows 10 LTSC.
github.com/nadeoki/win10enterpriseguide
Windows 10 Enterprise IoT LTSC specifically
That’s a great tip, thanks ! Do you know if I can upgrade my regular Windows 10 to this version without having to uninstall everything ?
While there may be a way to upgrade, general consensus is that it’s not possible and you should reinstall.
Sounds like they’re about to get sued by the EU because they’re basically asking you to pay again for a product you have already paid for. Discontinuing a service that was advertised as the “last windows you’ll ever need” is one thing, but sending you another bill on a whim is something entirely different. Microsoft might just have ensured the longevity of Win10 for the foreseeable future without making much if any profit from it.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/4f429057-dab5-4a29-85b4-0448288ab228.gif">
e: you guys are no fun at all
Requiring a support contract to receive continuing updates of software that was very publicly approaching end of support, with published EoL dates for years now does not break any laws.
By that logic, no support contracts are legal in the EU at all, and no product would ever be sunset.
Weird, you’d think that would have been the case when they did the same thing for windows 8, 7, vista, etc…
That was only for businesses that for whatever reason couldn’t update to Win10. Normal users weren’t eligible to get milked.
Considering that when people paid $100 for that OS they were told that it would be the “last Windows to be released”, shouldn’t there be a class action lawsuit?
They weren’t told that, that was an off-hand comment by an employee (not even a spokesperson) that the media took and ran with. Source:
I think they meant “latest” not “last.”
For what it’s worth
“Recent comments at Ignite about Windows 10 are reflective of the way Windows will be delivered as a service bringing new innovations and updates in an ongoing manner, with continuous value for our consumer and business customers,” says a Microsoft spokesperson in a statement to The Verge. “We aren’t speaking to future branding at this time, but customers can be confident Windows 10 will remain up-to-date and power a variety of devices from PCs to phones to Surface Hub to HoloLens and Xbox. We look forward to a long future of Windows innovations.”
https://www.theverge.com/2015/5/7/8568473/windows-10-last-version-of-windows
Which is largely true, there have been a number of “service packs” that were released as regular updates throughout the Windows 10 lifespan. So it definitely seems they want people to not think about the specific Windows version they’re on. From that article:
Windows 7, for example, had one major service pack, with a few isolated updates, whereas Windows 10 had a major update about every 6 months, and each one of those checkpoints was supported for about a year and a half. The final update was at the end of 2022, and it’s support runs 3 years.
So yeah, I think they met what they said, but the messaging wasn’t particularly clear how long that support would be provided for.
obligatory 🐧
Fuck me harder, Daddy Microsoft.
Microsoft:
www.reactiongifs.us/…/give_the_finger_matrix.gif
Wait. They want me to pay for something I already paid for?
Well guess my $2.5k new windowless machine is looking better everyday.
You actually paid for Windows?
Oh yeah. Windows XP Professional 64 bit. Each “upgrade” used the same license and never really got screwy until 10. Won’t go to 11.
Edit: Actually I don’t think I even paid for that, I think it was an OEM license my dad got from his work.
You know what’s shocking? I did. I ruined my desktop trying to set it up with some web server functions and wiping it somehow got rid of the license.
And so I paid to get rid of the watermark… boo!
There you go one last scary story for the season.
You already paid for an extended support contract?
See below: I started my machine off with an XP Professional 64bit license (I didn’t personally buy) in like 2006?
Because I kept the key for… Oh god 18 years, I always had the windows Pro versions. Windows 7 64 pro, Windows 8.1 Pro, and Windows 10 Pro.
What are you complaining about then?
They supported your hardware for 18 years even when it was only meant to be for a single OS version and now people still had the option of upgrading but the hardware is just too goddamn old. I’m not defending Microsoft I also think the requirements are too high for 11, but expecting even more from your key is just ridiculous.
I’m not.
It was sort of a joke. I’m not leaving windows for the price.
This is like people complaining about how Ubuntu 16.04 LTS support ended not long ago (2021-04-29)
Or macOS 10.9 Mavericks (2016-12-01)
Or Android 6.0 (2018-08-01)
Or Debian 8 “Jessie” (2018-06-17)
Or Linux Mint 17 (2019-07-01)
Or Fedora 23 (2016-12-20)
Or Slackware 14.1 (2024-01-01)
Of all of these, not even Slackware comes close to how long Microsoft has supported Windows 10 post release (2015)
Yes, but you don’t migrate to Windows 11 from those.
You do migrate to newer versions of those ossses with new de and backend lib versions, and all the breaking changes that entails which means spending another week chasing down broken stuff and learning how different things work now.
Which is about the same
windows 11 is not only about irreversible breaking changes
Windows XP. 2001–2019. If 10 beats that I’ll be impressed
2014… the POS edition (basically LTSC) was 2019
I’m counting that–which means I also have to count Windows 10 IoT, whose support ends in 2032. XP still wins!
I migrated someone running mission critical software off of CentOS 6 this year.
People hate upgrades.
To my knowledge upgrading to the newer release of any of those linux distros was not blocked by having only slightly old and perfectly serviceable hardware.
To my knowledge upgrading to the newer release of any of those linux distros did not cost any money to the users, either.
Apple hardware would like to have a word with you.
32-bit -> 64-bit
Anyone still defending Microsoft at this point has cognitive dissonance and deserves what they get. Seriously people - just use Linux. And for the 1% of you that can’t get that 1% of your programs working in Linux - just dual boot.
It’s like people forgot how to use computers.
This is on anticheat software at this point. “1%” of us can’t play many of our favorite games without dual boot and there are nitpicks with that that suck ass too. VFIO only brings you so far.
Most people who are fed up with Microsofts crap simply don’t buy a new computer anymore. They just do everything on an iPad (maybe pro) or similar without Windows. Gamers switch over to consoles, with Nintendo and Steam deck being preferred. Those things may run Linux like the Steam deck or another non Windows OS, but the user won’t notice or care since they don’t interact with it.
The time of the desktop and to a lesser extent the laptop has come and gone. It’s only for enthusiasts and people at work. At work people probably just use the same couple of apps or even just a browser with a webapp and never really interact with the OS. If it’s even a full computer and not a thin client connecting to a virtual desktop environment. People don’t know or care about OSes. Maybe they’ll bitch about Windows at times, but they bitch about a lot of things at work and they have no influence over any of it.
I think your right about waning support for desktop for general use, as in the “home” computer but saying gamers will switch to Nintendo or Steam Deck, not a chance in my opinion…the whole reason people game on PC is a varied story, for me personally I wanted to experience the best graphics at the time, what made me stick around is the realization that I can play any game I want from any console in history with any controller I want, I dont have to pay for internet, I don’t have to worry about backwards compatiilty and I’m free to shop around for amazing deals on games.
Your right about the average family home not buying in but your wrong about “gamers” or more accurately any tech person just switching or dropping windows
What am I dual booting if I can’t use win10 because it’s not secure, and I’m not paying for win11?
You can download the Windows 11 ISO from Microsoft for free. There’s a gajillon different ways to activate it for free, too. Most likely it will just activate itself, unless you built the PC.
But if you only need it to run some software, you don’t even need to activate it.
If whatever programs you need don’t require internet access and you aren’t at risk of evil maid attacks then it hardly matters if win10 isn’t secure. It definitely isn’t ideal, but if the options are:
A) Do all your personal stuff on linux and only boot w10 when you have to, offline.
B) Only have w10 and run hope.exe for security.
I’d choose A.
Fuck dual booting. Virtualize that shit.
Or that, but I’m told some things don’t play well in VMs like arcane peripherals.
A pirated copy of Win 10 LTSC, since it’s the only version you should a been tunning any who.
Thank you for your service to Linux adoption o7
Still cheaper than my Arch Premium membership
How do you activate Arch Premium? I got that stupid “Activate” overlay on my desktop.
When you’ve shown that you’re skilled enough, they’ll contact you.
The Lords of Arch will let you know when they deem you worthy.
.
The herd keeps me secure
Remember when Microsoft said Windows 10 would be the last version of Windows?
I 'member.
Twas Dickity 14 or so, and I plan to make good on Microsofts words.
I was wearing an onion on my belt, which was the fashion at the time
.
Remember when Billiam Gates said nobody would ever need more than 640kb of RAM?
Yup, then Javascript was invented
What we never needed was his billionaire ass.
Thank goodness the clouds parted and his holy billionaire visage emerged with the gift of [*angelic chorus] vaccines otherwise we would all be dead now (and he wouldn’t have made a 20 to 1 return on investment). Thank god for billionaires and their unquestionable wisdom.
I mean, that was back when if you wanted a home computer, you were building it yourself from parts from Radio Shack. Not exactly the same thing. I’m not certain that even Apple had the Apple 1 out at that point. I know they hadn’t made the Mac 128k, and weren’t going to for several years.
I haven’t ever met anyone that thought Bill Gates was prescient, just a lucky businessman.
The joke being that he didn’t actually say it, same as Microsoft never stating 10 being the last version of Windows ever
Hmm, but did they say the last version of Windows, or the last version of Windows you’re going to buy? And if it’s the latter, is the upgrade to Windows 11 free? If yes, then technically it’s still correct.
r/technicallythetruth ?
I just wish I could buy a copy of windows 11 that didn’t have any telemetry or AI.
IoT LTSC or just plain LTSC massgrave.dev/windows_ltsc_links
They never actually said this. Some MS Engineer did and the press ran with it.
And even that engineer only said “last” to mean “latest”, which is obvious from context, but why let that get in the way of clickbaity articles.
That’s the stupidest way to say that. Of course when it’s released it will be the latest release.
He was asked what they are working on now that they released Windows 10. He said they are still working on Windows 10 as it’s the last (latest) release of Windows and still being developed. Yes he could have worded it better.
It happens a lot by german talking people. Latest and last are the same word here
The last usable windows, maybe
Can I give them 50 dollars and not have to use windows at all?
Better yet: you don’t have to pay Microsoft at all to make the switch!
I’m really surprised they haven’t managed to push Azure Linux into the fold. Release a desktop version, Find some way to make attractive for all those Windows 10 people ready to walk away. Then just slowly fold all the bullshit back in. They could even bring the gui completely Windows 10esque
The problem with that would be that it would make switching to another linux ditribution very, very easy. They would have 99.99% compatibility so a lot of people would switch to another distro if they add stuff like recall.
They would also be opening the can of worms that is massive software support for linux (which is arguably already opening.)
No because platform capitalism has capture tge software ecosystem and leverages you own human capital against you.
Heck, I’ll let you not use windows for $49.
Isn’t the free market great?
How about I not pay and take my chances…
it’s pretty dangerous not to be getting security updates. probably for regular users won’t be a big deal. i have a feeling really bad vulnerabilities will be patched even if you don’t pay for it just out of a potential PR issue. but i would almost definitely pay this if I were a business who didn’t plan on switching to Win 11 soon
on a personal level i don’t understand why anyone continues to use windows these days
For what I do, there’s very low risk of anything happening. As for why use it at all. I hate dealing with linux bullshit and mac is intolerably locked down. Windows for better or worse is still the middle ground.
there was a vulernability on the iphone a while back where someone would send you a specific hindu character and it would crash the OS. it can get you no matter what you do really, use or business. the difference is a business has a lot more to lose.
as for the OS talk…
I use MacOS on my macbook & Linux on my desktop at home. I don’t think Mac is intolerably locked down. I have virtually the same experience on both. Mac is a very smooth experience once you set it up how you like. I have the same command line applications, the same config files, the same firefox profile that gets synced in between them, same unix utilities that share folders/files as if they were native, can ssh from one to the other, etc
including windows in that would be a PITA
windows is clunky and the company pushing it is becoming progressively more hostile to its users. apple is greedy but at least with their OS it’s not pushy. it’s the hardware where they stick the knife and twist in terms of price
Glad you have something that works for you. 👍👁️👄👁️👍
I m a Linux user for 10 years now and well… I just wanted to say that, bye
avg linux user
.
i use arch but i dont tell people about it wait shit
In a way, isn’t this just saying windows 11 is not ready as a replacement? Because fuck me my work laptop drives me nutty, IT hasn’t locked down all the popups and I can’t fix it withut IT…
No, Microsoft has offered paid extended support for afaik all other windows versions at least as far back as XP.
There is always something that can’t be upgraded because it’s running some obscure software or something. At work we are unfortunately running a single Windows Server 2003 server because it’s running some software that’s absolutely critical and apparently can’t be upgraded (I should test that though).
Pretty much every hardware or software company in at least IT offers (often really expensive) extended support for old stuff.
It’s just the way of things. It isn’t an admission that Win 11 Is bad of any kind
Man, I would love a follow up on that critical app. When I started in IT we had a sole dev that kept telling IT things couldn’t be updated and I guess they never challenged him. One day I got sick of trying to downgrade to 32 bit windows and moving pc’s around to for the growing needs of the company while one guy dictated everything has to stay old and shitty. Found out that alot of stuff he claimed could work only on 32 bit windows or server 2003, just needed to be tried on windows 10 or server 2016 and it was fine.
I started at the company during the summer so I haven’t been around long but my colleague has worked there for over 10 years and my former colleague worked there for 20 years. So I think that they are probably right.
The software is also something from the past that not a lot of people use anymore. Unfortunately I can’t say what it is because people could figure out where I work very easily if I did, I believe it’s from the 80s. My company is also the company that has used this kind of system for the longest time in the world.
Fun fact: I just searched up the software/system and I found out on Wikipedia that another company in the same industry had to reverse engineer and replace the entire system because it was just too old, and hard to maintain.
With that said, some of the servers the software uses runs at least on 2012 and 2016. I haven’t checked but if it’s a VM, I should absolutely just try and replace it and see what happens.
“Please you monsters, just pay, our children are getting older, and it’s time they moved out and bought their OWN islands off Seattle!”
Knowing Windows users they probably just complained about it and pay Microdicksoft anyway
How about I continue using it forever and I just MIGHT not blow up all your datacenters ?
Counteroffer - spend that $30 on a drink and turn them down. Just keep on using windows 10 and clog up their support tickets ^_^
But all my Windows VMs are offline and already years out of date? Go home Microsoft.
Extended updates always cost money, and this is pretty cheap relative to extended support for previous versions of Windows. I don’t understand why it’s newsworthy?
Windows 10 is nearly ten years old.