The google annual cost to have Google as default search on iPhone is north of 20b, hence the number in the article headline. They also pay lots to Mozilla and others.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 26 Mar 04:24
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Also why if this goes through Mozilla and Firefox will both be killed instantly. They’re almost entirely funded by Google.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 26 Mar 06:59
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Mozilla could probably survive with no additional funding, but they’d have to make some steep cuts. They have many millions in investments, enough to fund something like $20M indefinitely. That’s a lot lower than their current budget, but probably reasonable if they only needed to develop Firefox.
If Google funding is pulled entirely, they’ll likely find a search deal (e.g. Bing, DDG, etc), but it’ll be a lot less in royalties. However, if you look at their financials, they’re already putting a lot of the Google money away into investments, so they can certainly survive some cuts, provided they can something in the ballpark of what Google was offering.
mic_check_one_two@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 27 Mar 19:33
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Mozilla could remain funded if they stopped doing things like paying the CEO seven million dollars per year while laying off employees. If Mozilla dies, it will 100% be because of corporate greed.
If this penalty sticks, Apple could be looking for a new suitor. Something has to be the default search provider in Safari and other Apple products.
Does something really have to replace it? Why not a menu of options? Make the user choose something. If they choose Google, great! If they choose DDG, fantastic! Whatever it is, make it a choice.
WolfLink@sh.itjust.works
on 26 Mar 05:34
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Wait hasn’t DDG been the default in Safari for a few years now?
vollkorntomate@infosec.pub
on 26 Mar 06:53
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I will be honest, say there’s a new law that says on every device, users have the initial choice to select between any search engine, they’ll probably choose google anyways because most of these people have grown up that way.
Make a better alternative and people will come. Ddg is ok but it still is basically a reskinned Bing and Bing itself isn’t that good. Other search engines aren’t as polished yet either
uranibaba@lemmy.world
on 26 Mar 06:05
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I’m happy with Kagi. I feel like it is equal to Google in it’s prime.
Not many people want to (or can) shell out 10 $/month for a search engine. I’m not saying it’s pointless, I’m simply saying that few people would do it.
That’s why I self-host SearXNG. And have enabled several other “underdog” search engines like Mojeek and Marginalia. On my devices I’m using Redirect Web for Safari to send any search request to Ecosia (configured in my Safaris) to my SearXNG instance. Works great for me!
Sam . Mine is hosted on my RPi. Not ideal, I know, but at least it strips out tracking bits from the upstream engines.
baggachipz@sh.itjust.works
on 26 Mar 11:59
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Those same people probably have no problem paying more than that for YouTube Premium for an ad-free experience. Truth is, ad-supported search will always go to shit because it’s in direct competition with its own product. It’s the same reason YouTube with ads keeps getting worse.
Because according to their perception “search” has less value than “watch”, which may make sense if one seldom really uses a search engine (i.e., they just use the same 3-4 websites).
baggachipz@sh.itjust.works
on 26 Mar 12:34
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I don’t know why you’re being downvoted, you’re right. The value prop is different for different people. But I use search a lot more than I use YouTube, so I pay for the former and not the latter. I think that over time, people will get more used to the idea of paying for search. Not everyone, but plenty of people who want the premium experience it offers. I know I could never go back.
People here loves to downvote for every little shit they disagree with… And they say Reddit is toxic…
Anyway, I don’t care. I just disable “show score” in settings and let the kids play.
Back to the topic, I don’t use youtube at all, I don’t like watching videos. I think Kagi is a great idea, but honestly 10 €/month is a lot of money for me at the moment, so I’m just self-hosting SearXNG and call it a day.
taladar@sh.itjust.works
on 26 Mar 07:50
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Luckily Google is working tirelessly on making their own search product worse every year.
Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works
on 26 Mar 11:09
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Well, I just vaguely remember the times before dynamic search engines came along, when it was all just manually compiled lists of websites. It might be nice to have some of those again, not to fully replace dynamic search engines but as an addition to it. I guess those awesome… lists on GitHub for some programming topics are like it.
I switched from DuckDuckGo to Startpage and it has been much better. Problem is, Startpage is just a reskin of google without the AI crap and fewer ads so there is no real escape.
It has been proven to work, and the idea is not to make people choose others it is to encourage competition. How would you get your better product in front of most people if not for it being a requirement to be showcased. There are so mamy people using default everything on anything they have ever bought
threaded - newest
Shit, how much is Google spending on these deals??
In 2021, according to internet, they paid $26.3 billion to be the default search engine on phones and browsers.
So assuming those are not long term deals they are probably over $30 billion now.
The google annual cost to have Google as default search on iPhone is north of 20b, hence the number in the article headline. They also pay lots to Mozilla and others.
Yup, hundreds of millions to Mozilla.
Also why if this goes through Mozilla and Firefox will both be killed instantly. They’re almost entirely funded by Google.
Mozilla could probably survive with no additional funding, but they’d have to make some steep cuts. They have many millions in investments, enough to fund something like $20M indefinitely. That’s a lot lower than their current budget, but probably reasonable if they only needed to develop Firefox.
If Google funding is pulled entirely, they’ll likely find a search deal (e.g. Bing, DDG, etc), but it’ll be a lot less in royalties. However, if you look at their financials, they’re already putting a lot of the Google money away into investments, so they can certainly survive some cuts, provided they can something in the ballpark of what Google was offering.
Mozilla could remain funded if they stopped doing things like paying the CEO seven million dollars per year while laying off employees. If Mozilla dies, it will 100% be because of corporate greed.
Does something really have to replace it? Why not a menu of options? Make the user choose something. If they choose Google, great! If they choose DDG, fantastic! Whatever it is, make it a choice.
Wait hasn’t DDG been the default in Safari for a few years now?
Users can choose it, but it isn’t the default
No, that’s like, the entire point of the article.
Yes something has, they need their moneyss.
This is going to affect Firefox a lot more than it will affect Apple. At least Apple have options to shift money around. Firefox doesn’t.
Good! Maybe Mozilla can stop being shit and paying their CEOs tens of millions while looking for ways to enshittify Firefox.
Googles money has ruined Mozilla.
“A lack of money will prevent them from doing shitty things for money!”
I get what you’re going for, but it’s likely googles money that has slowed down the enshitification process.
Indeed. But it seems one isn’t allowed to criticize Mozilla here, so wait for downvotes or enraged replies.
People criticize Mozilla all the time here. Look at the post about changing their privacy statement.
And they are systematically downvoted to hell.
Here is a link to said post in this community: Firefox deletes promise to never sell personal data, asks users not to panic | Mozilla says it deleted promise because “sale of data” is defined broadly
The top post is critical of Mozilla has a 250 / 4 ratio. Where do you see systematic downvoting?
One data point isn’t statistically significant.
There are over a hundred comments critical of Mozilla on that post.
Here’s a follow up post. Mozilla is already revising its new Firefox terms to clarify how it handles user data
Over a 50 comments. I don’t see any evidence of systematic downvoting.
Where do you see systematic downvoting?
Also what is your definition of systematic? Is 4 downvotes systematic to you?
I will be honest, say there’s a new law that says on every device, users have the initial choice to select between any search engine, they’ll probably choose google anyways because most of these people have grown up that way.
Make a better alternative and people will come. Ddg is ok but it still is basically a reskinned Bing and Bing itself isn’t that good. Other search engines aren’t as polished yet either
I’m happy with Kagi. I feel like it is equal to Google in it’s prime.
Not many people want to (or can) shell out 10 $/month for a search engine. I’m not saying it’s pointless, I’m simply saying that few people would do it.
That’s why I self-host SearXNG. And have enabled several other “underdog” search engines like Mojeek and Marginalia. On my devices I’m using Redirect Web for Safari to send any search request to Ecosia (configured in my Safaris) to my SearXNG instance. Works great for me!
Sam . Mine is hosted on my RPi. Not ideal, I know, but at least it strips out tracking bits from the upstream engines.
Those same people probably have no problem paying more than that for YouTube Premium for an ad-free experience. Truth is, ad-supported search will always go to shit because it’s in direct competition with its own product. It’s the same reason YouTube with ads keeps getting worse.
Because according to their perception “search” has less value than “watch”, which may make sense if one seldom really uses a search engine (i.e., they just use the same 3-4 websites).
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted, you’re right. The value prop is different for different people. But I use search a lot more than I use YouTube, so I pay for the former and not the latter. I think that over time, people will get more used to the idea of paying for search. Not everyone, but plenty of people who want the premium experience it offers. I know I could never go back.
People here loves to downvote for every little shit they disagree with… And they say Reddit is toxic… Anyway, I don’t care. I just disable “show score” in settings and let the kids play.
Back to the topic, I don’t use youtube at all, I don’t like watching videos. I think Kagi is a great idea, but honestly 10 €/month is a lot of money for me at the moment, so I’m just self-hosting SearXNG and call it a day.
Luckily Google is working tirelessly on making their own search product worse every year.
It honestly might already be worse
You think it is bad now? Just wait for the new and enshittified Google Search 2026.
Dunno how long you’ve been online, but you should’ve seen searching before Google came along… it’s still better now.
But, there was not much tracking back then…
Well, I just vaguely remember the times before dynamic search engines came along, when it was all just manually compiled lists of websites. It might be nice to have some of those again, not to fully replace dynamic search engines but as an addition to it. I guess those awesome… lists on GitHub for some programming topics are like it.
I switched from DuckDuckGo to Startpage and it has been much better. Problem is, Startpage is just a reskin of google without the AI crap and fewer ads so there is no real escape.
It has been proven to work, and the idea is not to make people choose others it is to encourage competition. How would you get your better product in front of most people if not for it being a requirement to be showcased. There are so mamy people using default everything on anything they have ever bought
Some people are just starting to get their first iPhones and Macs TODAY. We’re not all old farts on the internet as much as we’d like to think so.