spaghettiwestern@sh.itjust.works
on 28 Aug 20:16
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The infuriating part of the Google enshittification process is that there is absolutely nothing the user can do about it.
Literally the only thing that motivates Google is profit. Controlling side-loaded apps will almost certainly boost their profits by a infinitesimal fraction of a percent, therefore it will be done. Even if consumer uproar causes Google to back down in the short term, they’ll simply implement this a few months later. Late-stage Capitalism sucks.
For me, MitID in Denmark. 100% required for society and life here, requires Google Play Services now :(
I tried e/os on my Fairphone for a bit. I think I could make it all work okay enough besides that. I should write people at the government or something I guess?
I don’t know myself, but Graphene OS (on Google Pixel phones) has a pretty impressive sandbox layer for the play store and the apps it installs. It might be worth looking into if you’re not aware of it currently. (But if you’re aware of the Fairphone, I’m guessing you probably know about Graphene).
You are correct, Graphene only runs on Pixel phones. I know there’s a few open mobile OS options out there but I’ve not spent any time researching them. There is a very good chance if you absolutely need an identification, then you can’t get away from Android. Hopefully someone else sees your comment and has an answer.
There’s a post about this on the Danish community here every few months. Afaik no one has any proper progress on it other than carrying a burner device or something
On graphene the release of the integrity API broke most of my gvt applications. I will have to buy a cheap android phone to be able to fill my taxes…
I contacted them, they told me it is for security, I argued but it is useless. I have to buy an android phone or be punished for not filling my taxes. Amazing
Yes! Being active politically is always important.
Be civil and polite at first, you want these people on your side after all. But don’t be afraid to hold back if they respond with bullshit either. They are your representative, make them represent you and hold them to account if required.
Encouraging friends and family to write is usually a good idea too.
Not being politically engaged, I feel, is one of the main reasons for the downfall of democracy throughout the globe. Too many people think ticking a box every 4-5 years is all they need to do.
Jeg var lige inde og kigge på MitID hjemmesiden. De skriver selv at der ikke var noget problem uden play integrity. Men at de implementerede det alligevel:
Therefore, an integrity check is now being introduced to ensure that the MitID app is downloaded from the certificed Google Play or Apple App Store, and to check whether Google or Apple consider the phone the app is running on to be compromised or not. This is happening even though there are no known cases of fraud with fake MitID apps.
Also, only officially browser for MitID is fucking Chrome. Always works with Firefox or libreWolf, though. However, I have contacted MitID two times about issues. They are always referring that I should look at the help page supported OS/browser blah blah. They don’t care about the part of the population that doesn’t use Chrome. Ironic that the same government now screams and shouts about how we have become too reliant on US big tech… Idiotic tech noob politicians.
fartographer@lemmy.world
on 28 Aug 20:41
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Got any advice on alternatives to Drive? I keep considering nextcloud, but people I know have said it’s a resource hog and finicky at best.
graphed_pingu@lemmy.world
on 28 Aug 20:46
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If you’re looking to self-host, nextcloud is the way go. But if you’re just looking for a drive alternative, there’s plenty of simpler alternatives, like proton or kdrive.
This is the answer unless you consider setting up a DIY home server fun, which often the kinds of people who recommend options for this kind of thing do… so just keep that context in mind here with recommendations.
Syncthing is a great solution and it is wayyyyy less a headache than any other DIY method I have done for replacing cloud/filesharing purposes.
Nextcloud definitely seems solid… but let’s be honest, it is definitely a resource hog. I tried deploying NextCloud on a VPS with 2GB of RAM, with most features turned off. The instance was empty. After a few minutes, I started getting alerts that I was using 100% of my memory.
Nextcloud isn’t gonna work the way you expect it to with 2GB of RAM. It doesn’t seem like you’d be able to run this on some cheap, low powered device.
Make sure you have swap enabled and it’s fine. Any file host is going to be aggressive with memory to cache all the files and metadata for quicker browsing.
I moved to pCloud + Cryptomator for general cloud file storage and Cryptpad for online document editing. These cover some of the main functions of Google Drive.
Syncthing is good if you just want files to show up on more than one machine, with no cloud services involved.
The UI is a little crazy but I am a big fan of copyparty. I have moved my entire family off of Google Drive and we use copyparty, and it works great. Uploads are fast, lots of features, easy to stand up and doesn’t consume lots of resources. But like I said, the UI could be better.
I’ve heard that someone is working on one, so fingers crossed it comes out soonish. It’s fine for me as is, but it’s a little difficult to promote to people used to the simplied Google and Apple UIs
You’ve got some good suggestions, I think most of the suggestions I can think of. Nextcloud is of course the big one but after using it for quite a while, I think it’s important to break down your needs. If you need file sharing/syncing only, there are better options that are easier and faster. If you only need chat/voice, rocket chat is really lightweight and easy. If you need file sharing, online office suite, chat, etc. Then Nextcloud is the right option. Just keep in mind, even if you think you need some of those things, will anyone but you ever actually use them? No, they won’t, because they don’t appreciate how cool it is to self host and how much effort you put into it.
masterofn001@lemmy.ca
on 29 Aug 02:31
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Sign up for 10 different free accounts of Proton Drive? It has 5gb free cloud storage.
Though I always prefer the simple physical backup to SD card and backup to PC.
I also have a simple sshd server and use sftp when I’m feeling frisky.
Sending from any device to any device using KDE connect is good too.
I run Nextcloud inside a VM, running on a decade+ old Intel gen 3 computer and the interface is snappier than navigating around google drive.
It is finickier to self-host than syncthing though, if all you need is sync. There are also tones of providers out there that will sell you Nextcloud or similar services.
mesamunefire@piefed.social
on 28 Aug 21:58
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Email? Its about the only thing leaving me on googles platform ATM. I can self host (with mailinabox) but....I kinda dont want to? Its so much work and I would rather do other things with my time.
I wouldn’t self host email. But I would pay for a host and get away from Gmail. Wait until Black Friday and get free/cheap services from a bunch of places. Maybe even proton if you’re okay with them. Also, using your own domain for email is pretty cool (to me).
Mozilla foundation is putting together a paid product under the Thunderbird brand. Folks are excited for that, the Firefox people are good people.
wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world
on 28 Aug 23:32
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I use my web host for email. I looked into hosting it myself but it looked way too fragile. The service is included with the website so it’s not like I’m spending any extra money that I wasn’t going to already…
I pay for Tuta, and I have added my personal domain. It works as catch-all, allowing me to have an infinite amount of addresses, so I can use a different email on each website.
I really like Runbox. Nothing particularity fancy, just pure standards compliant email, with excellent reputation, for a very low cost. They have a “drive” too.
There’s also mailbox.org, tuta, the upcoming “thunder mail”, proton, fast mail, probably your domain provider or VPS provider offers email as an add on. Consider paying for a email and a domain. It can be as low as $30 a year, and you become the customer instead of the product. Owning your identity.
The question wasn’t how to switch OSs without losing current capabilities
This is exactly the question. The article is about Google taking away software freedom, forcing developers to dox themselves, and forcing users to only install software from Google’s approved list.
Apple is already there. How would that help anyone?
While pretty neat, I’d have a hard time even calling the WiPhone a phone if it doesn’t have a cellular modem. You’re entirely dependent on having a wifi connection. I suppose it could serve as a replacement for a landline, but that’s about it.
mesamunefire@piefed.social
on 29 Aug 04:33
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Yep! Its so close.
Looks like they had plans for LTE. Dunno how hard it is to ser up. Probably very hard.
Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world
on 28 Aug 22:36
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De-Google
The complaint is side loading is being restricted and the only long term alternative Apple. Google already began the process of shutting down Graphene by cutting drivers out of AOSP.
Solventbubbles@lemmy.world
on 28 Aug 23:06
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Hang on, as somebody who knows enough to be looking into switching to graphene, but not entirely enough to know what AOSP is, what exactly is happening?
Am I going to fuck myself over? If I do end up switching to a custom rom? Should I just wait on the Linux community to build something better?
All I want is a working device that isn’t selling all my shit to Mark Zuckerberg
wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world
on 28 Aug 23:45
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G is restricting the factory images/source (I believe) that graphene uses to build their system, so they are having to work backwards, take more time, etc. It’s a shitty thing to do but afaik it’s not a blocker. I’m typing this on a gos pixel 8 pro right now.
Linux phones are still in their infancy, and are pretty shit if you need anything more than the ability to call and text (sms) on specific carriers (limitations applies to the USA, AUS, and a couple more I believe). I have a pinephone 1st gen and it’s… Cool for messing with, absolutely, but jesus christ it’s painful to actually attempt to use. I bought that 3y ago and not much has changed, from videos I’ve seen (my pinephone screen is lifting and failing so…). From a developer - like, bringing Linux to the phone platform - sure, grab one. As a user, unless you understand that you very likely will not daily this device (or any similar device) because shit just doesn’t work/isn’t ready and are OK with that… No, don’t. A few more years, maybe.
GrapheneOS is still moving ahead albeit slower, as you said. They are also working on a deal with a phone manufacturer to bring a more secure phone to market. I dunno whether it will just meet the same security levels of the Pixels and ship with stock Android, or if it will be a full GrapheneOS Phone. I'm hoping for the latter, but it will more likely be the former. Fingers crossed.
Yeah, I’ve heard rumors about that in the works but it’ll take a while. I try not to get excited before any product is released, but it will be something I investigate if/when I can pick one up. It’s been frustrating that other similar phones are EU-only, so I hope that won’t be the case with their attempt.
Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world
on 29 Aug 11:02
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You will have years of Graphene so don’t worry about what might happen in the future.
If you get a device and install Graphine now, it should be fine. It’s your future device options that will probably not include an AOSP alternative os. Hopefully Linux will be an option then, but there might be a bit of a dark age in between.
FenderStratocaster@lemmy.world
on 28 Aug 22:39
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I was thinking of switching to Proton. I use Gmail, Google Photos, Google Messages, Drive, Keep, Maps, Docs, Sheets. I pay $2 a month for 100gb and unlimited photos on Google. It’s a good deal. The fact that I would have to find out out to make a server, buy storage, piece meal a bunch of open source software that will inevitably not work without tinkering all makes it so easy just to pay the $2 a month.
i pay $20 a year for basically all of that and even more stuff but open source provided and maintained by a local server company in my country. of course i don’t use half of their offerings because some stuff has alternatives more suited for the platform or its simply not needed. but e.g. their service offers nextcloud which has most of the stuff you listed bundled into the platform by default. and then they have another 50 services added on top available for use.
Once I moved away from Gmail cutting off Google services became easy along with finding alternatives. Even if I use Google products like YouTube I can do it without an account with stuff like freetube to have a subscription feed locally and be able to save playlists and keep track of watch history.
So yeah even if Google products are used it becomes less account dependent, so you need a Google account less and less. And changing to a non Gmail email provider was the gateway.
spaghettiwestern@sh.itjust.works
on 28 Aug 22:48
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You can stop using all Google products.
That may be true for you, but other people face different realities. When Google implements the sideloading block it will eventually be pushed to everyone who doesn’t use a custom ROM.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
on 29 Aug 03:19
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also not everyone is saavy enough to use obscure services too.
spaghettiwestern@sh.itjust.works
on 29 Aug 03:45
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Not everyone cares enough to avoid Google. Some of us that want to do so are related to them.
vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org
on 29 Aug 08:34
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I wonder if it’s economically plausible to make a FPGA-based all-in-one system. In a “smartphone” box, maybe far weaker than most Android phones, but far less tall in expertise needed to do anything, for a low start to be possible without humongous investment and expected minimal parties. Something graphical Lisp-based as an OS. Perhaps with an interface to use it as a tablet when attached to a bigger box, or a laptop when attached to that box.
Focusing on having the necessary modules and input-output devices, with the FPGA itself being configured with something simple-enough RISC-V based with tagged memory, for example.
Like when you need a portable computer with cell connectivity and a battery, and want to have some choice, but are not too attached to specific platforms and popular places.
It seems that for militaries using FPGA is already an established practice, turns out to be more convenient and even cheaper. And with anything trying to fight big companies, it seems using FPGA will make more sense.
I mean, Sun Tzu wrote about “when you know your enemy and know yourself”, all that. Knowing myself I’m certain that trying to take on anyone bigger and smarter than me using things on their level of complexity is a failure from the start. Knowing them is beyond my ability in general, but we definitely know that those companies are led by very intelligent people who just won’t make the simpler kind of mistakes. And he also wrote a bit on the “death grounds”, where if you leave a path for retreat, that’s not a death ground. I think paths for retreat like alternative Android versions and such are all intentionally let be, so that you’d not resist too much.
Or, this is sort of a fewer dream, or bipolar psychosis to be more specific.
Yes, many at risk programs and housing programs and even Medicare and Medicaid provide phones and other devices to members and those device contracts with Google or via a cellular provider are for hundreds of thousands to millions of people depending on the state or federal program doing the purchasing. There isn’t a reality where those contracts will ever not be for first party devices. Even if we wanted to we couldn’t buy people one plus or other non-Google branded android devices and laptops in these programs because the companies selling them don’t meet various regulatory standards required by the programs.
These people are literally the most at risk and don’t get individual choice for their devices. The devices are being provided in the first place because too many modern systems require internet and phone access. Id.me, login.gov, MFA for your library app, your epic or Athena portals for healthcare, etc…
Squiddork@lemmy.world
on 29 Aug 00:46
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Honestly Googles products are terrible these days. I have been pretty lax about my privacy but after so much enshittification I switched my services to something that works and doesn’t harvest my data for the privilege.
When they kill off Graphene/Custom ROMs I’ll switch to a linux phone or brickphone.
My public school – that my children are basically required by law to attend, remember – is badgering me to sign a consent form so they can have Chromebooks.
This fight is a lot fucking larger than mere individual boycotts!
At the highschool I went to, there was some standardized testing (act, ap tests) done in locked down software installed on the chromebooks. Like instead of logging into your user, it was before login with no browser or anything. It sometimes let you have desmos and a small place to take notes.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
on 29 Aug 07:21
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they mustve started using chromebooks in the 2010s, we dint have any of that nonsense in the 2000s, although it was not much better otherwise.
I don’t know yet; I’m about to email the media coordinator to find out what happens when I refuse to sign the form.
My kids already have Raspberry Pi 400s (might upgrade them to 500s soon), and I have about half a dozen other computers (not including old retired stuff or my pile of other Raspberry Pis), all running Linux. This house is not at all lacking in technology, and I no longer tolerate proprietary shit in it.
What’s really fucked up is that the school district makes all these decisions basically unilaterally – not just for Chromebooks, but for other proprietary nonsense like ClassDojo and Remind and MySchoolBucks – and just assumes every parent will be cool with unquestioningly entering contracts with all these third-party entities. And even worse, most parents are cool with it!
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
on 29 Aug 07:03
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its probably datamining material for google and all these propietary companies.
vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org
on 29 Aug 07:55
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As someone from Russia, I grew up seeing movies where you all over there sue each other over unfortunate rude word.
Perhaps that last paragraph is where you really should try suing someone, no jokes.
They probably would have to find accommodation for you, although I’m sure it’d be very inconvenient. But still technically there.
As to if you refuse to have your child be issued a Chromebook and Google account, probably not much you can do, as they are providing everything.
My personal answer to this question is the same as if it were an employer issued mandatory Chromebook; me the employee (or my child the student) is a different entity than me the individual. Me the individual refuses to have anything to do with Google, and that’s enough of a fight for me.
Around here if you can’t refuse. My coworker is currently fighting that battle. His basically being threatened by the state that he either complies, home schools and compiles with those requirements which still has google requirements. Or he has to deal with the legal penalties of not sending his kid to school.
The accomodations is basically pay out of pocket for a private school. Because there is no accmodation for “free” services. Even the “poor” can do it so it’s a non optional expectation.
Earlier in my school years, we had to use Microsoft Office products. Then later on we were expected to use Google Drive, as they wanted to teach us what we can use without paying Microsoft.
At one point it was also mandatory to have a blog because the teacher was big on Web 2.0, and they of course pushed blogspot (Google). I think I went with managed wordpress instead, but may remember wrong.
ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de
on 29 Aug 07:39
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That’s barely a viable option without using apples own walled garden.
I don’t understand why you’d have to do that? I have literally zero Google interaction and I don’t have to custom build something. And I access my banks (plural) in browser only.
There are a couple of issues with that mentality, there are some countries in which money transitions almost entirely revolve around proprietary apps and services, Sweden for example (a decent article that talks about Sweden in particular). In my country, I can’t find any public information on which banks require apps and which don’t. The bank that I am currently using does have a website, but I have to login with a one-time password generated from an app. Also, going to a different bank assumes the same bank won’t do the same and exclusively require an app down the line.
I’ve actually never seen a bank that an app is the ONLY option. And two factor codes should be able to be generated by any number of (sometimes FOSS) apps.
if I don’t use android or iOS, I can’t use my banking apps, pay with my phone, access government services as they require an app to sign in, etc. it’s just not doable anymore for me
Ignoring the fact that iOS is an option, I bet you’re mostly mistaken and there is a web based or non app option for everything, even if it’s not obvious.
vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org
on 29 Aug 07:52
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I think they are more conscious than to be driven by small margins (another example of such underestimation is Lenin’s “they’ll sell us the rope we’ll use to hang them”).
It’s like boiling frogs - a very slow process of attracting users, slowly killing competition and diversity, slowly making the ecosystem more and more controlled, then slowly making “neutral” systems not neutral anymore (like those features of Chrome making security exceptions for Google services found a few years ago), and slowly desensitizing people to leaps of faith they do trusting Google (and other companies), while the trust accumulates into total control.
This is not late stage capitalism. This is mid stage at best. The entire economy and world population could be shrunk down to literally pennies, as the wealth gap widens. It could have us ending up like district 9, or Elysium as broad examples. The govt and entities have not even started cracking down on illegal activities, loop holes, bank accounts, cash spending, crypto, and more in the super strict enforced fashion they could be.
While rightly fucked up and enshittified. We could be so so much further down the capitalism rabbit hole of hell. Everyone should be boycotting and avoiding the largest companies as a whole. No change you make goes unnoticed. You might be less than 1 percent but the snowball effects happen. Movements, parties, resistance, change, software, everything adds up.
So what you can do. Don’t go mentally insane about it. Most things don’t require THAT much effort. A simple tweak here or there makes an impact.
We need a new one that isn’t made by a for-profit company that only was good at the beginning to get total market saturation before flipping the enshittification switch to maximize those profits.
WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works
on 28 Aug 23:48
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why do we need a new one? can’t android be salvaged? lots of things have been solved already in a way that makes a relatively good foundation.
All the non-Google entities that build stuff on Android need to start banding together instead of siloing themselves. If AOSP is being closed, they need to create a non-profit replacement for it.
cabbage@piefed.social
on 29 Aug 08:13
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I guess if Google closes down AOSP it would get forked, and the fork would probably be a separate thing from the current Android distributions. So that the landscape would continue to look a bit like today, except that AOSP would be an independent thing.
Then I guess it's possible that Google would seek to make android apps incompatible, gradually making the whole thing kinda pointless. I can't say I'm using Android for the great UX - I'm using it because it supports a few apps I continue to be forced to use. If I can't use them on Android any more I'm switching to Ubuntu Touch or PostmarketOS in a heartbeat.
WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works
on 29 Aug 11:53
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right! I never understood why isn’t there more cooperation between different foss roms, at least sharing patches and coordinating some work.
The fucked up part is nowadays third parties like banks or sometimes even governments make apps rely on Google services, so you can’t use an ungoogled phone for stuff you actually need for life…
LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world
on 28 Aug 21:32
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Makes me curious if they think their monopoly or whatever they were called cases making them split their browser are going to go though. If you are going to have to sell parts of the company, now would be the time to hammer home any last minute bad things that would make the companies more profitable. Shows higher income for the sale, and gets it out of the way so the new purchaser doesn’t look like the ones who did it, but rather the ones who will make announcements on how they will review things to make them better for the user base.
Doesn’t mean they’ll follow through on them, but it takes the evil and sticks it with the old owners.
OctopusNemeses@lemmy.world
on 29 Aug 13:18
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I disagree. Google has always been a thinly veiled Microsoft. A wolf in sheeps clothing. They embrace, extend, extinguish. It’s the same thing.
humanoidchaos@lemmy.cif.su
on 29 Aug 20:33
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All corporations suck fucking donkey dick because consumers are morons.
axum@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 28 Aug 21:19
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We need open bootloader and drivers for phones to make any real progress on this. This is what’s holding back all initiatives.
Tippon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 28 Aug 21:56
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I wonder if the generic tablets with made up Asian sounding names that you see on the big marketplaces could work? They could have slightly larger or smaller screens if they’re cheaper than current phone screens, and could have Linux with something like Signal on them for calling.
They’d probably be lower quality to begin with, but could potentially get better if people start to buy them. They seem to have generic hardware, so might be able to offer the drivers and unlockable bootloaders too :)
I saw someone else recommending it. I only hope they take this opportunity to release the OS for everyone, but since they’re for-profit, I doubt they will.
tomalley8342@lemmy.world
on 29 Aug 01:08
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Whenever you see a linux phone advertise both security and android app support, you should be wary, since it’s likely waydroid or a waydroid fork, and their design goal of running android in a container instead of a VM has lead to some interesting security decisions.
Lemminary@lemmy.world
on 29 Aug 01:11
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Interesting. Thanks for sharing!
flop_leash_973@lemmy.world
on 29 Aug 01:39
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Still using Android 11? Holy hell.
ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de
on 29 Aug 07:50
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You realize how many things have gotten shittier since android 11? Accubattery isn’t even allowed to monitor everything using up juice any more. You can’t customize your own charging curves, you’re locked out of accessing portions of your storage on your own phone, and a lot of great power user apks had to completely hit themselves or just stop working all together.
What do you need from after 11 that an apk wouldn’t have allowed you to do already?
I would be very happy if anyone could explain to me in a simple and coherent way why I, as a normal user who am aware of what I am doing on my device and am not targeted by any group that's out to get me, would need a "hardened malloc", "secure app spawning", "vanadium browser and webview", or a "hardened PDF viewer". The last of these four is the only thing that means anything to me, and it sounds dumb. Yeah, I know PDFs can be dangerous if you open random shit, but come on.
If I run Waydroid it's only to get my banking app (trusted source) and Whatsapp (not a trusted source but not directly malware either) working. I hardly need their hardened PDF reader.
Not just your two android apps, any program on your system that is aware of your waydroid installation could potentially use it as a path to escalate themselves to root, which is generally regarded as a bad outcome. If you don’t care about that kind of thing, or don’t think that could ever happen to you, that’s certainly within your rights to hold such a viewpoint.
Interesting. I’ve not heard of FuriOS, but if it is a Linux phone that actually can be used with US carriers, makes calls and supports SMS/MMS, and can do VoLTE that’s a actually a pretty big deal.
WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works
on 28 Aug 23:47
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the best outcome for the short term would be to forcibly take away android from google and give it to an independent foundation. as I heard antitrust proceedings in the usa were heading that way a few months ago
And he’s very easily bribed which corporations have caught onto.
Goodlucksil@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 29 Aug 17:25
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So basically remove Google integration from AOSP?
WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works
on 29 Aug 21:49
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I mean taking away the development access to the project. what do you mean? google based captive portal checks and the similar hidden “gems”?
zarathustra0@lemmy.world
on 28 Aug 20:43
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I don’t know about anyone else, but I got into computers at a young age because it gave me a sense of control over something. I didn’t understand everything, but I could do a lot of trial and error, read things and experiment, build cool things, and I shared a sense of community with some random internet strangers based on that knowledge.
In a world where we are so powerless in so many other ways, why did we insist on bringing that power dynamic into the new bright tech sphere? Why did we have to do that? (N.B. this is rhetorical questioning).
KneeTitts@lemmy.world
on 28 Aug 21:09
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In the new Alien Earth TV show, 5 corporations basically run everything… unfortunately I suspect thats where we are headed as a species.
My university actually teaches about the “Meger Endgame theory” (yes, my professor had fun with that one), which states that industries will consolidate until 2-3 global market leaders dominate. So uhh, it’s not just you. Idk if that’s good or bad news for you haha
There are at least two generations of us who are disappointed at the contrast between tech’s possibilities as envisioned decades ago and the corporate surveillance crap we have to put up with today.
The thing that really gets to me is how we’ve gone from “Here, let us sell you a computer that you can push to its limits however you see fit” to “We will sell you a device and ensure you use that device within a given sphere of acceptability”.
I own this phone/computer/tablet/console/whatever, so why the fuck do I have to adhere to their rules? Rules they’ve changed since I bought the device, of course.
We, as in the average every day people, didn’t do shit. The corporations that make the shit we use are the ones who got us here. The only thing the people using the devices and software are guilty of is not making a fuss about losing control over the stuff becsuse the average person does not care that deeply about the tools and likely doesn’t even know about a good 75% of what was lost.
axum@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 28 Aug 21:21
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Sadly the majority of normal people don’t want control. They just want it to do some trivial task without any fuss at any cost.
Vanilla_PuddinFudge@infosec.pub
on 28 Aug 21:39
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This sucks for the average person but, well, everything tends to. If you don’t look for avenues around literally everything “default”, you’re being scammed. They don’t, so they will be.
I do, so I’ll be carrying a Oneplus 6T and slapping a mobile Linux OS on it for my needs.
that’s not usable!
For you.
r4venw@sh.itjust.works
on 28 Aug 22:29
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Ive got the 7T. What OS are you gonna use?
Vanilla_PuddinFudge@infosec.pub
on 28 Aug 22:48
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I’m going to try all of them. I’ve always wanted to just go to ebay, buy a 6T and try some of these operating systems. It’s the target phone for about half of them. What interests me the most is Plasma Mobile on PostmarketOS. It looks slick and not too dissimilar from Android.
Linux on mobile is very model specific. The 6T isn’t even perfectly supported by anything, it’s just supported enough to be functional.
Why the 6T? Just the right mix of hardware that released with the right mix of software to make it ideal. the Pixel 3 also had a lot of Linux compatibility.
Vanilla_PuddinFudge@infosec.pub
on 29 Aug 08:40
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There is an interesting new breed of flip phones that can be tethered to for internet access. I could imagine a flip-phone + laptop setup being perfect for a lot of users here.
I think my CatB40 dumb phone does tethering, a flip phone would look cooler though. What are some good ones to look for? But as I occasionally have it in a pouch for kayaking it might not be the most useful to have a flip phone as you can’t really open it when its sealed. But if cheap enough I could always swap a SIM between a few.
they just want to confirm a malicious actor didn’t develop it
So Newpipe, SmartTube, Nintendo emulators…
Clones of opensource apps bundled with ads that violates license is OK, but restricting everyone to build and test apps from source so it can test new features and report any issues is too risky for the user
ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de
on 29 Aug 07:54
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Literally anyone who simply wants their privacy.
cerebralhawks@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 28 Aug 21:44
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People voted for this with their wallets.
As an iPhone guy, I know we already have it like that, and our keyboard has always sucked (and none of the third party keyboards help, they all suck compared to Gboard on Android), but while we dread the day that Apple becomes a data broker like Google… that day is not here yet.
I have bad news for you: they already sell your information to advertisers.
But the threat of Apple turning on its customers isn’t limited to China. While the company has been unwilling to spy on its users on behalf of the US government, it’s proven more than willing to compromise its worldwide users’ privacy to pad its own profits. Remember when Apple let its users opt out of Facebook surveillance with one click? At the very same time, Apple was spinning up its own commercial surveillance program, spying on Ios customers, gathering the very same data as Facebook, and for the very same purpose: to target ads. When it came to its own surveillance, Apple completely ignored its customers’ explicit refusal to consent to spying, spied on them anyway, and lied about it.
I mean… it’s hilarious that people still use Chrome when it has been a known back actor for years and years. Firefox is an excellent option and the more people that use it, the more it encourages companies to keep supporting open web standards.
Likewise, if you set an iPhone to use Advanced Data Protection, it’s probably quite a bit more secure from intrusion than a similar Android phone. (And definitely more secure from subpoena.)
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
on 29 Aug 03:27
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i abandoned it ever since they say they slow down incognito mode, and prevent the liberal use of adblockers, or extensions.
magic_smoke@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 29 Aug 03:58
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Likewise, if you set an iPhone to use Advanced Data Protection.
You can pretend your iPhone isn’t owned by a corporation that just swore fealty to the current regime, but until its running a custom ROM it isn’t fucking yours.
Only phone that comes your own from factory I’d maybe the pinephone. Otherwise, get a pixel, rip out the factory OS install, and throw Graphen OS on it.
Both Android AND iOS have taken code from Graphene and used it to secure their codebases. Its probably one of, if not the most secure OS available to the average person today.
GriffinClaw@lemmy.zip
on 28 Aug 22:15
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Apologies if this is the wrong place to ask, but I literally have no idea in which community this question goes.
I just got Samsung Galaxy A16, and then I learn just how controlling Google/Android is becoming. Research says I SHOULD be able to deGoogle and flash a linux OS custom Android ROM
My question is, as a beginner, which one should I go for? does it have any issues I need to look out for?
I’ll also add: after DivestOS died, I got a Pixel to run GrapheneOS.
So I’ve tried that too, and it’s the best by far.
The reason for disliking LineageOS is its dependence on Aurora Store (Google Play mirror).
Maybe it has gotten better over the past year, but it was always quite buggy. Some apps wouldn’t install from Aurora, others weren’t found, it was a pain in the ass.
/e/OS uses a different app store (which is also a mirror) but tends to work much better.
shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip
on 28 Aug 23:17
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You cannot do so on Samsung devices. They have disabled the ability to unlock the bootloader on their devices and therefore you cannot install custom operating systems on them anymore.
If you want to install custom software like that, you always have to do your research beforehand and choose a device that will allow you to do so.
ExtremeUnicorn@feddit.org
on 29 Aug 00:24
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Since when is this the case?
tomalley8342@lemmy.world
on 29 Aug 00:56
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Luckily my old phone still works (it is starting to show its age though). Gonna stretch it as long as possible. Hopefully someone will find a hack by then.
ExtremeUnicorn@feddit.org
on 29 Aug 09:19
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Seems like a cheap excuse, the law doesn’t say specifically that.
But, of course, manufacturers like to lock down their devices as much as possible. And such laws play into their hands.
InnerScientist@lemmy.world
on 29 Aug 18:39
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Yeah that’s their excuse, luckily the law explicitly says that:
(19) Verification by radio equipment of the compliance of its combination with software should not be abused in order to prevent its use with software provided by independent parties.
ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de
on 29 Aug 08:16
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My Note 20 Ultra (US) came out like 5+ years ago and you can’t unlock the bootloader. There was a workable hack job that was possible for a little while, but even that got patched up through a firmware update back in like 2021, and there’s no way to roll back firmware anymore, either.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
on 29 Aug 06:54
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probably will be an older model that isnt sold anymore by samsung.
When reading cyberpunk lore, quickhacks didn’t make any sense to me. Some programs that break cyberware because of backdoors, but why would people install cyberware with backdoors?
Now I look at the sad state of mobile market and, yeah ok, that makes sense.
That makes sense and all but where does the poison come from??
emeralddawn45@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 29 Aug 06:32
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I mean the cyberware is a direct neural interface so presumably it must be able to manipulate and alter the levels and balance of your neurotransmitters. Im sure increasing aome to insane levels would have pretty toxic effects, like serotonin syndrome for example.
I suppose that’s a good enough hand wave explanation.
I thought though, just purely for curiosities sake, that neurotransmitters are released by a voltage potential difference over some sort of gate caused by a flood of sodium ions (a chemical signal), and it’s not just a matter of conducting current. That means the cyberware has to somehow attach inside the axon and on the outside, across the gate to create that voltage difference. And that’s for one gate.
I feel like the more one thinks about this the more the name should be changed to 3077.
Some really vicious backdoor that contains dangerous substance in a hidden chamber? Not a far reach when we are talking about corporate backdoors normalized.
KindnessIsPunk@lemmy.ca
on 29 Aug 01:14
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humanoidchaos@lemmy.cif.su
on 29 Aug 20:35
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We still need security updates.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
on 29 Aug 03:08
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chrome is at thier limits, since people can just use a different browser/
Deflated0ne@lemmy.world
on 29 Aug 04:33
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And they can suckle upon my peener.
I’ll go to Graphine or something else before I let the company for whom “don’t be evil” was too bold a statement dictate my fuckin’ choices.
I already ditched Windows. Can’t be that hard to cut Google out too.
traceur301@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 29 Aug 05:54
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Graphene has locked itself to google hardware, and google can cripple them at any point by stopping bootloader unlocks. We need to go deeper, or aim higher as it were
cookie019@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 29 Aug 07:19
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Not that they locked themselves but other vendors locked and isolated themselves by not provideing enough hardware and software security measures so graphebne will be able to strenghten them
They have stated that they’re more than willing to work with any manufacturer who is prepared to make a device that meets their security standards. But as it stands, Pixels are the only unlockable devices that meet that standard.
Someone like Fairphone could do pretty well from a tie-in with Graphene. But it’s up to them.
MangoPenguin@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 29 Aug 16:02
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They haven’t locked themselves to Google hardware by choice, it’s the only hardware with the security features they need so far.
Remember graphenes goal is a very secure OS, not just a more private degoogled one, for that there’s /e/os and other options that support more hardware.
Librem profits +++$$$
It may be the end for u if u use a mobile for games… If not - Just buy some open-source phone like Librem or PinePhone, they also have Linux available:)
Do not get a pinephone, whatever you do. I have owned both a PP and PPP and they are just ass. Pine64 is relying on the work of one single developer who does pretty much all the hardware support stuff and that in their free time. Development is slow, battery life is terrible, the hardware is trash and quality control is a mess.
I tried really hard to like them, gave them every benefit of the doubt, but no luck.
Don’t bother. Get literally any non-pine phone with PMOS support
Yeah well luckily for them, people don’t seem to know how to write anything but webapps anymore anyway.
vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org
on 29 Aug 07:32
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In an environment most convenient for making webapps people make webapps.
It’s not even such a wrong idea honestly, if the “web” in “webapp” were a bit leaner and you’d make local applications with something document-oriented for GUI looking at a local service. It’s just a decent bit of structure to make application design easier. Nothing wrong with that IMHO.
But, ahem, when by “webapp” we mean that we have a browser fulfilling the role of an operating system, and there’s one company making it, then something is wrong.
Easily the most disgusting company in the planet and it’s funny that their old motto/slogan was ”Don’t be evil”.
vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org
on 29 Aug 07:28
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I’ve recently gotten to think that the company which made the basement for all these disgusting companies is usually viewed as not just not disgusting, but almost holy. Meaning Sun. So, maybe, judging the tree by its fruits, the most disgusting company was Sun.
I mean, I know that everyone who used their products and of course people who worked there are still in awe and remember it like a Soviet summer camp shown in the Everlasting Summer game.
But perhaps that’s misguided. They’ve built the hierarchical systems, the infrastructure, for all the dystopia of today, and their code still powers much of it.
Also you know how the second competitor in an almost monopolized market is sometimes considered an accomplice of monopoly? Because they are strong enough to support some of its ways, while the rest are not. So they reinforce it. I’m also looking at Firefox writing this. Literally.
Perhaps we’d have a better environment office-wise if LibreOffice and OpenOffice were not a thing. They support MS formats, thus indirectly contributing to MS dominance. The network effects work in a few different ways, while were it different, those desperately needing MS documents would use MSO, at the same time those just needing some office suite would possibly not.
Perhaps that can also be applied to Unix and Unix-likes, Sun made a lot of momentum for Unix and Unix-like desktops when they contributed to TCL/Tk so that it became a tool for making Unix and Unix-like desktop applications easily. And when they created Java and Java applets in web browsers prepared the public for scripts in browsers and cross-platform applications served over net.
Yes, it all felt like heaven behind the corner, but perhaps they are to blame. What if.
After all, much of that was free or for the cost of a CD then, and free cheese usually is part of a trap. Perhaps if instead commercial competing platforms, like Amiga or even Apple, were to gain more following, we’d have a different world. All those development resources couldn’t have been gifted (Sun in the 90s, I mean, and honestly many universities) out of nowhere, something made that worth the expense.
Or, if we want free and open, Lisp environments are somewhat easier to hack on (also again about TCL, it kinda approaches that in convenience for a non-programmer to make something simple, quick and dirty, but good enough), and accessibility to wider, eh, masses is meaningful here. So maybe GNU shouldn’t have gone with a Unix-like system idea. I mean, OK, they do have a Lisp environment fit for everything, it’s called Emacs.
BTW, about disgusting companies coming to mind first, I’m not disgusted by Oracle, in comparison to most other big ones they do honest business. I dunno why they are hated, uncle Larry says dystopian shit with enthusiasm and no remorse, but at the same time his company sells exactly what it advertises. It’s all kinda open and straightforward, it’s the “one rich asshole called Larry Ellison” company, which may not be what someone likes, but is certainly better than companies actively building worldwide digital fascism (it, of course, offers expertise and help to those who do in case they need it). Also he’s really a self-made man. Unlike all those other types from good families, good environments and with good education.
OK. I just have that conspiracy theory brewing in my mind about Sun actually being evil. Sorry.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 29 Aug 13:44
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Sounds like you’re not familiar with Oracle…
leftzero@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 29 Aug 16:02
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ExcessShiv@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 29 Aug 07:35
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It’s very “meh…” with the added benefit of several (non-google) apps not working (/s). I choose to live with this inconvenience, but it still bothers me that my smartphone is significantly less useful in my daily life.
Having not used default Android for many years now, what makes GrapheneOS worse (aside from a few apps not working - which isn’t an issue I’ve had, fortunately)?
ExcessShiv@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 29 Aug 11:33
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GrapheneOS is not worse than other custom ROMs, never said it was. it’s a mediocre experience best described with a “meh…” and a shrug.
Sorry, I was asking about GrapheneOS vs stock Android. I assumed that your comments on it were in comparison to stock Android since that’s what the previous user most likely was asking for.
ExcessShiv@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 29 Aug 17:07
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The answer is the same, very average.
Vanilla_PuddinFudge@infosec.pub
on 29 Aug 08:50
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You always have a choice. You can ditch your morals entirely, give up, be subservient to the capitalists and give your identity over fully to the system like the good little consumer slave you are and enjoy your normie life looking at your normie phone and toss us all out as tinfoil-hatted weirdos who almost convinced you to make your life worse for the sake of self-sufficiency, independence and privacy.
No one in the real world will ever know, care, or judge you. Only you will know that you gave up, that every location you exist in is known about by someone behind a monitor being overseen by fascists. Every day! You can live with that, right? That’s a small thing to give up in the grand scheme of things, isn’t it? At least Youtube loaded today, right? It’s all worth it, lol.
Just remember to type “thanks” in google keyboard whenever you want them to know you appreciate them. They log it.
Dead Kennedys were prophetic when they named one of their albums “Give me convenience or give me death”.
ExcessShiv@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 29 Aug 11:35
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Oh yes I forgot that pointing out the flaws in privacy-related things, so people who are interested in switching know what they’re potentially getting in to, is a big NoNo here…all hail the perfect FOSS which can do no wrong.
baggachipz@sh.itjust.works
on 29 Aug 11:47
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The purity tests are so exhausting
ILikePigeons@lemmy.ml
on 29 Aug 18:15
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Yup, privacy (and many other things) should be done to ones ability and not to ability of others.
baggachipz@sh.itjust.works
on 29 Aug 19:48
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They’re the ones foisting their requirements on others. Somebody shares what they do, and the purists come storming in with their righteous condescension. Nobody asked for that negativity.
In this case, your assessment is fair - user is harsh, name-calls, and does talk down to the person they were responding to/the reader. I got lost in the chain.
Regardless, accusations of purity testing come up more than enough online for my liking and it isn’t always in response to righteous condescension, as you aptly described the user’s behavior in this example.
baggachipz@sh.itjust.works
on 29 Aug 22:52
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Wow, this definitely isn’t reddit! Thank you for having a reasonable discussion.
Vanilla_PuddinFudge@infosec.pub
on 29 Aug 11:53
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Don’t feel pressured by me. If you feel pressured yourself, it may be a form of projected guilt.
If you don’t find privacy and security important enough to give up your connectivity or usability, that’s perfectly fine. I don’t have to live with it.
A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world
on 29 Aug 12:37
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Honestly, smart phones being less useful in daily life is probably a good thing.
I went from 15 years of iPhones directly to Graphene, without really messing with Android in between, so my experience has been a STEEP learning curve, followed by a fairly hum-drum experience. But honestly, that’s fine. I want my phone to take more of a back seat and not be something I keep needing to worry about.
My banking app doesn’t work in Graphene, but the website does, so I don’t really mind.
It could that there’s a whole bunch of shit I’m missing, but mostly it’s… fine.
nomadjoanne@lemmy.world
on 29 Aug 09:02
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The issue isn’t that. It’s that devs may juat abandon projects if they’re too naughty for Google cos the custom ROM crowd is so tiny.
Right so think torrent clients, idk, Pornhub app, that sort of thing. Yeah, it doesn’t affect your phone. But it absolutely will affect what software is available at all should Google clamp down on this.
themachinestops@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 29 Aug 09:02
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Wait until Google locks the bootloader.
finix_the_psyker@sopuli.xyz
on 29 Aug 12:37
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I know that the GrapheneOS team have mumbled about the possibility of working on their own device. Although, this would probably be a long way off if it ever did come to fruition.
But, what happens when Google decides to no longer the option to unlock the bootloader for future phones? It’s the future that is the concern when it comes to the degoogle options available.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 29 Aug 13:41
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Then the community shifts to a different model, or puts more resources behind mobile Linux projects, and all that would need to happen is something like what Valve did for Linux for the Steam Deck.
I’m ready to switch to a Linux phone as soon as I can find one where the basic phone features work properly (MMS, wake from sleep, camera, etc). The more people like me can switch, the closer we’ll be to mainstream adoption. That’s the same process as Linux has been going through: I switched before Steam on Linux was a thing, then Steam came and more switched, then Proton made windows games work and more switched, etc, and now we’re seeing the start of “normal” people switching.
I hope that happens before my Pixel 8 goes out of support or breaks.
Furi Labs runs a fully optimized system called Furi OS
If I were to switch to a Linux phone I’d want it to be made for an open and trusted OS, not the (unknown to me at least) manufacturers own.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 29 Aug 20:17
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Eh, you’d want something like this to run something custom, because there’s going to be a lot of iteration and it’ll be harder to push things through a distribution they don’t control.
It seems to be Debian based and has some customizations to make work w/ Android apps nicer (Halium support).
I would personally prefer PostmarketOS, but I’d be fine w/ that being a community effort as long as Furilabs doesn’t block installing alternatives.
It is based on Debian (Droidian to be specific I believe), which to me reads as a fork or maybe a distro flavor with out of the box tweaks to specifically work with the hardware they are selling.
They say they aren’t stopping you from installing anything else you want on the phone, they just aren’t going to offer help getting a different OS to work, which is reasonable to me.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 29 Aug 20:24
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Yeah, it looks cool, but I’m not really in a position to be a guinea pig. If they were around 2 years ago, I probably would’ve given it a shot.
I am looking for another phone at some point in the next year (kids getting about that age), so if I hear good things, I might just pull the trigger. It is a bit chonkier than my current phone, which isn’t great (30mm longer, 10mm wider, and 110g heavier), but according to reviews, it seems to fix all the issues I have w/ the PinePhone.
Who knows, maybe your review will push me over the edge in deciding to get it.
kbobabob@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 29 Aug 10:04
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What kind of phone?
ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online
on 29 Aug 10:07
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I want to know, too. I got a Samsung s23 when my last phone suddenly died and I only then realized thar it wasn’t compatible.
Bought a Pixel 7a new below 350 EUR last december. Buying used is also an option.
ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online
on 29 Aug 11:32
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That is reasonably priced. I have another year on my current phone before it is paid off. I armored it up like there is no tomorrow so it should last without a breakage.
I had a problem for years of buying cases and tempered glass for my phone since I had a phone break BECAUSE of those things.
baggachipz@sh.itjust.works
on 29 Aug 11:45
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I spent a mere $500 for my Pixel 9a. Most expensive phone I’ve ever owned. But at least I can send a text message from inside my house and make phones from out in my yard now.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 29 Aug 13:43
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Eh, I got a used Pixel 8 for $350 or so, and it works great with GrapheneOS.
My gold standard is a proper Linux phone, but those aren’t reliable enough yet, so using Google’s phone is the next best option.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
on 29 Aug 07:35
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google is pissed people were deleting that spying app on android phones, plus thier constant attack on adblocking on youtube wasnt working to well. since samsung and iphones pretty much walled in thier os, why not google.
Thanks! I remember safety codes now: it looks at all your pictures and says it only blocks CSAM, but who knows if it is trustworthy or if it misidentifies something.
The other o e from what I can tell is trying to add e2ee to google message? How does it spy?
The EU’s been breathing down Apple’s neck for them trying to do similar shit, so i find the timing kinda weird.
Plus they’d need to force-update their spyware first, i wonder how many versions of android they’re willing to go back.
derpgon@programming.dev
on 29 Aug 09:24
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I think the update is already installed, just waiting for the kill switch.
Yet Apple has been able to profit from their walled garden for decades now. Doesn’t that set a precedent that it’s okay? I honestly don’t blame Google for going this route—it’s inaction from our policymakers that has created the space for abuse.
FlyingCircus@lemmy.world
on 29 Aug 13:06
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When our policymakers take direction from capitalists, it’s ok to blame to capitalists.
OrteilGenou@lemmy.world
on 29 Aug 14:15
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Yeah I was going to say it’s better to blame the policy makers but who the fuck cares? Neither side of that coin does.
Interesting perspective. So the suggestion is to redirect our blame away from our elected representatives or even from electing representatives that run on a campaign that aligns with our priorities.
I’m not sure how you came to that conclusion based on what I wrote, but my suggestion is to not let companies escape consequences for shitty things they do simply because regulators fail to be effective at their jobs. Legally allowed is not the same as morally acceptable.
The EU has been targeting Apple for years now for not allowing sideloading (the whole Fortnite drama) and ruled that no, Apple can’t bar users from installing shit.
Apple requires developers to go through a Notarization process, much in the same way that Google intends to introduce restrictions to sideloading on Android. How is this different?
InnerScientist@lemmy.world
on 29 Aug 18:21
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It isn’t, now that apple is using that to block installation of third party apps I’m expecting the EU to once again step in.
SugarCatDestroyer@lemmy.world
on 29 Aug 08:54
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Are you kidding me? How am I supposed to live in this damn Orwellian society that is coming?
BuboScandiacus@mander.xyz
on 29 Aug 10:14
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tbf, we all got through it by just going to other platforms. now there’s almost no other platforms to go to because big tech either pressures them until they fold, or sell to them and become part of their umbrella as some shill company or they remain independent but still use big tech software to run their backend, so your info ends up going to them anyway.
i think in the future, everyone will be forced into surveillance by default and those who don’t will have to either pay dearly for privacy or learn how to program their own security. checkout project gideon that’s already getting pitched to the united states government and other governments from israel. it’s literally that show “person of interest” plus
bluecat_OwO@lemmy.world
on 29 Aug 13:00
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now it’s just a race for the giant conglomerates to make the worst decisions for consumers
DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works
on 29 Aug 18:12
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Your computer no longer “computes”, its just a barebones terminal to access a “virtual pc” in the cloud.
Good news, you don’t need to pay $1000 for a good laptop, all you need is this $50 windows machine that only runs a client that streams a live feed from MS Headquarters
Bad news, its a subscription, stop paying and you lose all files.
Wait a minute did you type a “Eat The Rich” document, sorry can’t have that, violates ToS, deleted.
Shattered pixel dungeon? Or is there another version?
SonOfAntenora@lemmy.world
on 30 Aug 10:20
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Several others that have been taken out of the store completely or that never got in, like unbreakable pixel dungeon is the old regular pixel dungeon without item degradation.
suodrazah@lemmy.world
on 29 Aug 15:48
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It’s nice, and good to see more of a push. However, I think kill switches for at least microphone and camera should be the new default. It’s absolutely ridiculous to walk around with an internet connected mic and a camera that looks at your face whenever you look at your phone. Personally, I’ll never carry a phone around anymore that doesn’t have mics and cameras desoldered or there’s a kill switch. For the back camera a cover with a slide is fine, but doesn’t really work with the front part.
spicehoarder@lemmy.zip
on 29 Aug 19:45
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I would carry around a flip phone if my work didn’t require Passkeys generated exclusively from MS Authenticator.
Retro_unlimited@lemmy.world
on 29 Aug 21:47
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I just put stickers on the selfie camera.
BigDanishGuy@sh.itjust.works
on 29 Aug 17:04
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I want to believe, I really do. But I fear that the crypto apps people have grown dependent on will make it harder than the desktop battle. And IDK but I seem to recall every year since at least 2001 being proclaimed to be the year of the Linux desktop.
I rely on my banking apps (plural), governmental email app, government authentificator app and the governmental LMS app for public schools to make my everyday function. And the last time I tried just a custom ROM, those apps refused to run.
A phone that can’t do NFC payment, banking and authenticator work is not a phone. It’s a pile of shit that’s little more than a toy for children.
Nothing wrong with toys, but they arnt useable products worth any amount of real money.
Victoriathecompact@sh.itjust.works
on 29 Aug 18:04
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is this legit?
ICastFist@programming.dev
on 29 Aug 19:22
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As long as companies can keep pumping shitty, almost entirely closed off android phones that cost less than 200 dollars for consumers (selling hardware at a loss while making up for data harvesting and sale), “linux mobile” will be just another meme along with “year of the linux desktop”
Yeah that’s the issue, when it comes to mobile, anyway
TwinTitans@lemmy.world
on 29 Aug 17:06
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As shitty as M$ is, it would have been nice to see Windows phone become moderately successful and be a third primary mobile os.
DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works
on 29 Aug 18:07
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That’s would just be Windows 11 S ~Mobile~ ~Edition~, but you do not get the option to upgrade to Windows 11 Home ~Mobile~ ~Edition~ as you would on a PC
Or maybe you do get an option, but its a subscription for $50 per quarter-year. 🫠
Not much different than Google. Keeping their mobile device storage low and then officially advising people to just store stuff on Google drive instead.
No way - it was a good phone at the time. I had a Lumia 640 and it worked like a charm. There was only a small range of apps, but the main features worked fine: mail, calendar, messaging, camera and route planner with a map. There were news readers, Acrobat. I did not miss much and if M$ sold it’s software better to other manufacturers than Nokia, I think it would have worked well and fitted between Apple and Google.
blargh513@sh.itjust.works
on 29 Aug 20:01
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I would have rather seen the development of BBOS10. It was so far ahead of its time.
That whole thing we do with swipe gestures to navigate the android interface? Yeah BBOS had that years ago.
I miss my Passport.
AlwaysNurture@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 30 Aug 03:06
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I still have my BlackBerry Passport.
humanoidchaos@lemmy.cif.su
on 29 Aug 20:29
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I disagree. That would’ve just been more garbage like with the xbox.
I kinda want a 2.5" round screen fit into a pocketwatch case. Give it an nrf52, lora, bt, wifi.
humanoidchaos@lemmy.cif.su
on 29 Aug 20:29
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I came here specifically to ask about alternatives to Android now that google is becoming too abusive in the relationship.
Yeahboy92@lemmy.world
on 29 Aug 20:42
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GrapheneOS works well. But only on pixel devices.
Dumhuvud@programming.dev
on 29 Aug 20:46
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Ironic that you need a Google smartphone, isn’t it?
humanoidchaos@lemmy.cif.su
on 29 Aug 20:47
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That’s unfortunately a dealbreaker for me. I have a free phone from some company I’ve never heard of and I don’t plan on buying a new one. Hopefully we will see more progress on mobile operating systems in the coming years.
Unfortunately, things are heading in the opposite direction. The number of phones you can install other os’s on is dwindling by the day. Even the phones designed solely for this purpose are failing to capture enough market to remain sustainable.
The OS’s are getting there by leaps and bounds, but you being able to install it on anything is the hard part.
Custom Android ROMs based on AOSP, which is the open source parts of Android. I used to use LineageOS back in the day.
Before buying a phone, make sure that it has an unlockable bootloader and a custom ROM of a recent Android version. Note that some phones have multiple versions for different regions and some might not be unlockable, while others are. For example many Samsung international phones are unlockable, but none of the USA models are.
Note that many commercial apps like Netflix, Pokémon Go, bank apps, etc. will refuse to run if your bootloader is unlocked. It also permanently trips Samsung’s Knox.
girsaysdoom@sh.itjust.works
on 30 Aug 02:11
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Unfortunately, this seems to be something that might be changing in the future. Google isn’t going to be open source with android development anymore.
nuk1ngCat@discuss.tchncs.de
on 30 Aug 17:15
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I was looking into it a few ago. I found something made in Europe which advertise as more consumer friendly (Fairphone). If I got it right they want to stand out of the crowd by:
Selling phones that can be repaired easily;
Offer a de-googled OS based on Android.
The second point could be interesting, considering this Google abusive behavior towards users. Moreover, there is another thing that caught my attention: their devices (the last one is missing, but maybe it’s just too new?) are supported by Ubuntu Touch, which should be just a Linux OS running on phones. That would be my dream, so that I can consider my phone just a computer with all the freedom I can get, such as write down my bash/python/C applications to do what I want to do without having to mess up with all that Android development suite.
However, if I am not mistaken, in the past I heard some bad reviews about Fairphone, so you should perform your due diligence.
thespawnkiller@lemmy.world
on 29 Aug 22:09
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I feel like this is the new normal cycle of every software company. Once they become a leader, it’s never enough. It replicates the rise of billionaires. Just as the billionaires being rich beyond anything they and all of their succeeding generations could ever spend is not enough, being the industry leader and producing an amazing product that people want is somehow not enough. It always turns to control and power.
minkymunkey_7_7@lemmy.world
on 30 Aug 03:49
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I can’t wait for AI to become a living corporate trillionaire entity and fuck us all to the end of humanity.
At some point they get large enough that the whims of users cease to affect their decision-making. If Google, Meta, and MS tomorrow rolled out a social credit system that made the Chinese version look generous, 95+% of their users would not change a THING to avoid it. Maybe 98% of their users.
Gammelfisch@lemmy.world
on 29 Aug 23:37
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Time to back to the analog world and short wave radios.
It would only be days before someone builds logic gates using Morse code somehow (who am I kidding, it probably already exists), and we recreate the entire thing again lol
UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml
on 30 Aug 02:16
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Are we already nostalgic for analog oligarchy?
interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml
on 30 Aug 03:47
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We burned down the past we can burn down the future too.
I’m bothered that big companies, especially tech right now, no longer see their customers as people they need to please to stay in business, but instead as something they’ll inconvenience and squeeze as much as they can possibly get away with.
They all got to where they are making, at one point, amazing products. Now? Fuck making windows useful, we can throw ads and AI at you every place we can think of. Fuck all of the parts of Android that made it stand out, we tell you what to install. You don’t want all of your data scraped and sold? Fuck you, there’s 3 of us and we’re all doing it. In fact we’ll never stop finding new ways to harvest data.
Phones have basically stagnated entirely in the US. Sure you get moderately better chipsets, but what else? AI? I haven’t had a phone struggle with anything in… maybe 10 years. Instead features that people didn’t use enough just get removed.
I’m taking steps, slowly, as well. I’m getting off windows very soon, I’m working on getting off of various services these companies run one at a time. Depending on what really happens with Android and Google we’ll see.
Another way of deGoogling would be to, ironically, use a Pixel phone and side-load a privacy focused OS like Graphene or CalyxOS. With them, literally everything needs express permissions to be used, whether it’s your camera, location, microphone, etc. You can even sandbox the Play Store and other Google services so they can’t access your deeper files.
Huh… That’s news to me. When I was first looking into it, that OS was mentioned here and there. I ended up putting Graphene on my phone and left it at that, so I didn’t even bother keeping up with any of the other stuff.
threaded - newest
The infuriating part of the Google enshittification process is that there is absolutely nothing the user can do about it.
Literally the only thing that motivates Google is profit. Controlling side-loaded apps will almost certainly boost their profits by a infinitesimal fraction of a percent, therefore it will be done. Even if consumer uproar causes Google to back down in the short term, they’ll simply implement this a few months later. Late-stage Capitalism sucks.
You can stop using all Google products. Now I understand their market share on the web means they’re going to continue to shape the web.
But make no mistake. There is something, however small, that you can do. De-Google.
I will help hand hold anyone who wants to build servers or services (to the best of my ability) to replace Google services with their own.
There are a lot of alternatives out there. What service or services are you stuck on?
For me, MitID in Denmark. 100% required for society and life here, requires Google Play Services now :(
I tried e/os on my Fairphone for a bit. I think I could make it all work okay enough besides that. I should write people at the government or something I guess?
I don’t know myself, but Graphene OS (on Google Pixel phones) has a pretty impressive sandbox layer for the play store and the apps it installs. It might be worth looking into if you’re not aware of it currently. (But if you’re aware of the Fairphone, I’m guessing you probably know about Graphene).
I do, but as far as I was aware my Fairphone can’t run Graphene? I would love to keep using my Fairphone over buying Google’s hardware at this point
You are correct, Graphene only runs on Pixel phones. I know there’s a few open mobile OS options out there but I’ve not spent any time researching them. There is a very good chance if you absolutely need an identification, then you can’t get away from Android. Hopefully someone else sees your comment and has an answer.
There’s a post about this on the Danish community here every few months. Afaik no one has any proper progress on it other than carrying a burner device or something
Then buy second-hand. You aren’t giving Google any of your money, and you can focus on increasing your privacy.
Still, repairability is right up there with privacy for me, so I’m quite happy with the hardware right now
That’s fair. I just had to get my pixel repaired and it’s been a headache because Google doesn’t make it easy.
graphene is only for pixels i believe.
On graphene the release of the integrity API broke most of my gvt applications. I will have to buy a cheap android phone to be able to fill my taxes… I contacted them, they told me it is for security, I argued but it is useless. I have to buy an android phone or be punished for not filling my taxes. Amazing
I’ve never heard of that, so I looked it up. There definitely appear to be non-Google alternatives.
What? You can’t use an alternative app. It’s government issued identification and required for life here.
I (and as far as I can tell, all others) can’t get it to work outside of android
https://international.kk.dk/live/online-self-services/mitid/mitid.
Does not appear to “require” Android.
Fascinating. I knew about the key fob but not the little pedometer looking thing.
I wonder how it actually works, since a lot of it is integrated into apps and I don’t see a spot to instead type a code. I’ll have to play with it
Yes! Being active politically is always important.
Be civil and polite at first, you want these people on your side after all. But don’t be afraid to hold back if they respond with bullshit either. They are your representative, make them represent you and hold them to account if required.
Encouraging friends and family to write is usually a good idea too.
Not being politically engaged, I feel, is one of the main reasons for the downfall of democracy throughout the globe. Too many people think ticking a box every 4-5 years is all they need to do.
A good bit harder since I’m not a native Dane. In some more years when I’m a full fledged citizen I can start in earnest, but I’ll ask now at least
Don’t use the app then? I have a key thing which works quite well. www.mitid.dk/en-gb/…/mitid-code-display/
TIL this exists. Super cool.
Hvad koster det?
Jeg tror det er gratis
Edit:
Jeg var lige inde og kigge på MitID hjemmesiden. De skriver selv at der ikke var noget problem uden play integrity. Men at de implementerede det alligevel:
mitid.dk/…/mitid-gets-an-extra-anti-fraud-mechani…
Also, only officially browser for MitID is fucking Chrome. Always works with Firefox or libreWolf, though. However, I have contacted MitID two times about issues. They are always referring that I should look at the help page supported OS/browser blah blah. They don’t care about the part of the population that doesn’t use Chrome. Ironic that the same government now screams and shouts about how we have become too reliant on US big tech… Idiotic tech noob politicians.
Got any advice on alternatives to Drive? I keep considering nextcloud, but people I know have said it’s a resource hog and finicky at best.
Bewcloud?
If you’re looking to self-host, nextcloud is the way go. But if you’re just looking for a drive alternative, there’s plenty of simpler alternatives, like proton or kdrive.
Syncthing
This is the answer unless you consider setting up a DIY home server fun, which often the kinds of people who recommend options for this kind of thing do… so just keep that context in mind here with recommendations.
Syncthing is a great solution and it is wayyyyy less a headache than any other DIY method I have done for replacing cloud/filesharing purposes.
Syncthing is what Dropbox was, before Dropbox became just another cloud data provider.
just be sure to check if the deletions sync timeframe suits your case. in the new 2.0 deletions are not remembered forever
Those people may be the kind who tell you formatting your hard drive and reinstalling windows every other week is the best way to keep it ‘clean’.
Ive been using Nextcloud at multiple businesses for years, its a rock.
Nextcloud definitely seems solid… but let’s be honest, it is definitely a resource hog. I tried deploying NextCloud on a VPS with 2GB of RAM, with most features turned off. The instance was empty. After a few minutes, I started getting alerts that I was using 100% of my memory.
Nextcloud isn’t gonna work the way you expect it to with 2GB of RAM. It doesn’t seem like you’d be able to run this on some cheap, low powered device.
Someone rewrite it in Rust! 😅
It’s 2025. Many cheap, low-powered devices have more than 2GB of RAM at this point.
Make sure you have swap enabled and it’s fine. Any file host is going to be aggressive with memory to cache all the files and metadata for quicker browsing.
I moved to pCloud + Cryptomator for general cloud file storage and Cryptpad for online document editing. These cover some of the main functions of Google Drive.
Syncthing is good if you just want files to show up on more than one machine, with no cloud services involved.
Seafile is an alternative for self-hosting: www.seafile.com/en/product/seafile_on_premise/
I haven’t tried it. Seems to be more efficient than Nextcloud. It also has way less features. So. 🤷
The UI is a little crazy but I am a big fan of copyparty. I have moved my entire family off of Google Drive and we use copyparty, and it works great. Uploads are fast, lots of features, easy to stand up and doesn’t consume lots of resources. But like I said, the UI could be better.
It’s very young and got very popular suddenly, someone will make a nice stable UI for it at some point…
I’ve heard that someone is working on one, so fingers crossed it comes out soonish. It’s fine for me as is, but it’s a little difficult to promote to people used to the simplied Google and Apple UIs
You’ve got some good suggestions, I think most of the suggestions I can think of. Nextcloud is of course the big one but after using it for quite a while, I think it’s important to break down your needs. If you need file sharing/syncing only, there are better options that are easier and faster. If you only need chat/voice, rocket chat is really lightweight and easy. If you need file sharing, online office suite, chat, etc. Then Nextcloud is the right option. Just keep in mind, even if you think you need some of those things, will anyone but you ever actually use them? No, they won’t, because they don’t appreciate how cool it is to self host and how much effort you put into it.
Sign up for 10 different free accounts of Proton Drive? It has 5gb free cloud storage.
Though I always prefer the simple physical backup to SD card and backup to PC.
I also have a simple sshd server and use sftp when I’m feeling frisky.
Sending from any device to any device using KDE connect is good too.
I run Nextcloud inside a VM, running on a decade+ old Intel gen 3 computer and the interface is snappier than navigating around google drive.
It is finickier to self-host than syncthing though, if all you need is sync. There are also tones of providers out there that will sell you Nextcloud or similar services.
Email? Its about the only thing leaving me on googles platform ATM. I can self host (with mailinabox) but....I kinda dont want to? Its so much work and I would rather do other things with my time.
I wouldn’t self host email. But I would pay for a host and get away from Gmail. Wait until Black Friday and get free/cheap services from a bunch of places. Maybe even proton if you’re okay with them. Also, using your own domain for email is pretty cool (to me).
Mozilla foundation is putting together a paid product under the Thunderbird brand. Folks are excited for that, the Firefox people are good people.
I use my web host for email. I looked into hosting it myself but it looked way too fragile. The service is included with the website so it’s not like I’m spending any extra money that I wasn’t going to already…
Maybe porkbun if you just need email?
But Porkbun charges per mailbox.
I pay for Tuta, and I have added my personal domain. It works as catch-all, allowing me to have an infinite amount of addresses, so I can use a different email on each website.
I do the same (catch-all, unique every site), but if op doesn’t want to fiddle with that stuff, I’ve heard pb is okay. Just giving options.
I really like Runbox. Nothing particularity fancy, just pure standards compliant email, with excellent reputation, for a very low cost. They have a “drive” too.
There’s also mailbox.org, tuta, the upcoming “thunder mail”, proton, fast mail, probably your domain provider or VPS provider offers email as an add on. Consider paying for a email and a domain. It can be as low as $30 a year, and you become the customer instead of the product. Owning your identity.
lemmy.world/c/selfhosted
Now that AOSP is closing, what are we supposed to do?
Linux.
AOSP is not closing, the device trees for all older pixels are still there
Uhh… how do we stop using Android? I mean, these recent attacks by Google seem like they’re going to break GrapheneOS and friends, no?
No idea.
Sent from my iPhone.
Oh, thank god Apple lets users install whatever software they want—hey, wait a minute…
The question wasn’t how to switch OSs without losing current capabilities, it was how to stop using Android. Switching OS is how.
Losing side loading is something being lost either way.
Ios is bad. I’d rather have locked down android with the official terminal, rather than go back to using the iSh[1] app for terminal on ios
[1] ish.app
This is exactly the question. The article is about Google taking away software freedom, forcing developers to dox themselves, and forcing users to only install software from Google’s approved list.
Apple is already there. How would that help anyone?
At the very least, the threat of losing a large number of users may cause Google to reverse their decision.
that was a good joke
There seems to be a lot of “we’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas” energy in this thread.
we are quite literally powerless. what are your suggestions? are you ready to meet sundar with a printed gun? as if that would solve this problem.
Cut Google serves out of your life. That is the answer.
guess what, I did years ago. I can’t realistically recommend that to the averafe joe, though.
What I wouldn't give for a very simple linux phone. Not android based. That I can call/message from.
Closest I came across that was neat: https://www.wiphone.io/
While pretty neat, I’d have a hard time even calling the WiPhone a phone if it doesn’t have a cellular modem. You’re entirely dependent on having a wifi connection. I suppose it could serve as a replacement for a landline, but that’s about it.
Yep! Its so close.
Looks like they had plans for LTE. Dunno how hard it is to ser up. Probably very hard.
The complaint is side loading is being restricted and the only long term alternative Apple. Google already began the process of shutting down Graphene by cutting drivers out of AOSP.
androidauthority.com/google-not-killing-aosp-3566…
Hang on, as somebody who knows enough to be looking into switching to graphene, but not entirely enough to know what AOSP is, what exactly is happening?
Am I going to fuck myself over? If I do end up switching to a custom rom? Should I just wait on the Linux community to build something better?
All I want is a working device that isn’t selling all my shit to Mark Zuckerberg
G is restricting the factory images/source (I believe) that graphene uses to build their system, so they are having to work backwards, take more time, etc. It’s a shitty thing to do but afaik it’s not a blocker. I’m typing this on a gos pixel 8 pro right now.
Linux phones are still in their infancy, and are pretty shit if you need anything more than the ability to call and text (sms) on specific carriers (limitations applies to the USA, AUS, and a couple more I believe). I have a pinephone 1st gen and it’s… Cool for messing with, absolutely, but jesus christ it’s painful to actually attempt to use. I bought that 3y ago and not much has changed, from videos I’ve seen (my pinephone screen is lifting and failing so…). From a developer - like, bringing Linux to the phone platform - sure, grab one. As a user, unless you understand that you very likely will not daily this device (or any similar device) because shit just doesn’t work/isn’t ready and are OK with that… No, don’t. A few more years, maybe.
GrapheneOS is still moving ahead albeit slower, as you said. They are also working on a deal with a phone manufacturer to bring a more secure phone to market. I dunno whether it will just meet the same security levels of the Pixels and ship with stock Android, or if it will be a full GrapheneOS Phone. I'm hoping for the latter, but it will more likely be the former. Fingers crossed.
Yeah, I’ve heard rumors about that in the works but it’ll take a while. I try not to get excited before any product is released, but it will be something I investigate if/when I can pick one up. It’s been frustrating that other similar phones are EU-only, so I hope that won’t be the case with their attempt.
You will have years of Graphene so don’t worry about what might happen in the future.
If you get a device and install Graphine now, it should be fine. It’s your future device options that will probably not include an AOSP alternative os. Hopefully Linux will be an option then, but there might be a bit of a dark age in between.
I was thinking of switching to Proton. I use Gmail, Google Photos, Google Messages, Drive, Keep, Maps, Docs, Sheets. I pay $2 a month for 100gb and unlimited photos on Google. It’s a good deal. The fact that I would have to find out out to make a server, buy storage, piece meal a bunch of open source software that will inevitably not work without tinkering all makes it so easy just to pay the $2 a month.
i pay $20 a year for basically all of that and even more stuff but open source provided and maintained by a local server company in my country. of course i don’t use half of their offerings because some stuff has alternatives more suited for the platform or its simply not needed. but e.g. their service offers nextcloud which has most of the stuff you listed bundled into the platform by default. and then they have another 50 services added on top available for use.
Once I moved away from Gmail cutting off Google services became easy along with finding alternatives. Even if I use Google products like YouTube I can do it without an account with stuff like freetube to have a subscription feed locally and be able to save playlists and keep track of watch history.
So yeah even if Google products are used it becomes less account dependent, so you need a Google account less and less. And changing to a non Gmail email provider was the gateway.
That may be true for you, but other people face different realities. When Google implements the sideloading block it will eventually be pushed to everyone who doesn’t use a custom ROM.
also not everyone is saavy enough to use obscure services too.
Not everyone cares enough to avoid Google. Some of us that want to do so are related to them.
I wonder if it’s economically plausible to make a FPGA-based all-in-one system. In a “smartphone” box, maybe far weaker than most Android phones, but far less tall in expertise needed to do anything, for a low start to be possible without humongous investment and expected minimal parties. Something graphical Lisp-based as an OS. Perhaps with an interface to use it as a tablet when attached to a bigger box, or a laptop when attached to that box.
Focusing on having the necessary modules and input-output devices, with the FPGA itself being configured with something simple-enough RISC-V based with tagged memory, for example.
Like when you need a portable computer with cell connectivity and a battery, and want to have some choice, but are not too attached to specific platforms and popular places.
It seems that for militaries using FPGA is already an established practice, turns out to be more convenient and even cheaper. And with anything trying to fight big companies, it seems using FPGA will make more sense.
I mean, Sun Tzu wrote about “when you know your enemy and know yourself”, all that. Knowing myself I’m certain that trying to take on anyone bigger and smarter than me using things on their level of complexity is a failure from the start. Knowing them is beyond my ability in general, but we definitely know that those companies are led by very intelligent people who just won’t make the simpler kind of mistakes. And he also wrote a bit on the “death grounds”, where if you leave a path for retreat, that’s not a death ground. I think paths for retreat like alternative Android versions and such are all intentionally let be, so that you’d not resist too much.
Or, this is sort of a fewer dream, or bipolar psychosis to be more specific.
Yes, many at risk programs and housing programs and even Medicare and Medicaid provide phones and other devices to members and those device contracts with Google or via a cellular provider are for hundreds of thousands to millions of people depending on the state or federal program doing the purchasing. There isn’t a reality where those contracts will ever not be for first party devices. Even if we wanted to we couldn’t buy people one plus or other non-Google branded android devices and laptops in these programs because the companies selling them don’t meet various regulatory standards required by the programs.
These people are literally the most at risk and don’t get individual choice for their devices. The devices are being provided in the first place because too many modern systems require internet and phone access. Id.me, login.gov, MFA for your library app, your epic or Athena portals for healthcare, etc…
Honestly Googles products are terrible these days. I have been pretty lax about my privacy but after so much enshittification I switched my services to something that works and doesn’t harvest my data for the privilege.
When they kill off Graphene/Custom ROMs I’ll switch to a linux phone or brickphone.
My public school – that my children are basically required by law to attend, remember – is badgering me to sign a consent form so they can have Chromebooks.
This fight is a lot fucking larger than mere individual boycotts!
Mine too, so I do agree with you the issue is larger.
But I believe it can start with individual boycotts.
cant you give your child a cheap laptop, or they require thier inhouse shitty ones, use only?
They require that the kids use the Chromebooks and use Google accounts.
At the highschool I went to, there was some standardized testing (act, ap tests) done in locked down software installed on the chromebooks. Like instead of logging into your user, it was before login with no browser or anything. It sometimes let you have desmos and a small place to take notes.
they mustve started using chromebooks in the 2010s, we dint have any of that nonsense in the 2000s, although it was not much better otherwise.
I don’t know yet; I’m about to email the media coordinator to find out what happens when I refuse to sign the form.
My kids already have Raspberry Pi 400s (might upgrade them to 500s soon), and I have about half a dozen other computers (not including old retired stuff or my pile of other Raspberry Pis), all running Linux. This house is not at all lacking in technology, and I no longer tolerate proprietary shit in it.
What’s really fucked up is that the school district makes all these decisions basically unilaterally – not just for Chromebooks, but for other proprietary nonsense like ClassDojo and Remind and MySchoolBucks – and just assumes every parent will be cool with unquestioningly entering contracts with all these third-party entities. And even worse, most parents are cool with it!
its probably datamining material for google and all these propietary companies.
As someone from Russia, I grew up seeing movies where you all over there sue each other over unfortunate rude word.
Perhaps that last paragraph is where you really should try suing someone, no jokes.
We need a “freedom from corporations” clause to go with freedom of religion.
And my kids school requires every parent to have a Google account to track progress and share information.
What happens if you refuse?
They kill you!
They probably would have to find accommodation for you, although I’m sure it’d be very inconvenient. But still technically there.
As to if you refuse to have your child be issued a Chromebook and Google account, probably not much you can do, as they are providing everything.
My personal answer to this question is the same as if it were an employer issued mandatory Chromebook; me the employee (or my child the student) is a different entity than me the individual. Me the individual refuses to have anything to do with Google, and that’s enough of a fight for me.
Around here if you can’t refuse. My coworker is currently fighting that battle. His basically being threatened by the state that he either complies, home schools and compiles with those requirements which still has google requirements. Or he has to deal with the legal penalties of not sending his kid to school.
The accomodations is basically pay out of pocket for a private school. Because there is no accmodation for “free” services. Even the “poor” can do it so it’s a non optional expectation.
Earlier in my school years, we had to use Microsoft Office products. Then later on we were expected to use Google Drive, as they wanted to teach us what we can use without paying Microsoft.
At one point it was also mandatory to have a blog because the teacher was big on Web 2.0, and they of course pushed blogspot (Google). I think I went with managed wordpress instead, but may remember wrong.
That’s barely a viable option without using apples own walled garden.
De-googling will break banking apps, since most baking apps rely on Play Integrity checks and bootloader status.
Then don’t use the apps? Do your banking through the browser.
What a pompous and clueless suggestion. Some modern internet banks are app-olny.
Good luck with your revolution where 10 people are able to participate.
Don’t use those banks then.
Yes, let me build my life around a fucking ROM lmao.
I don’t understand why you’d have to do that? I have literally zero Google interaction and I don’t have to custom build something. And I access my banks (plural) in browser only.
In my comment above I mentioned that some banks are App-only, you cannot access your funds though the website.
You can switch banks you know, it’s not convenient but easier than switching your email.
You’re forced to use that bank?
No, but switching banks just because I want to be a part of “the resistance”, against google is pretty delusional.
Bank apps aren’t the only thing that relies on “play integrity”.
You’re missing the forrest for the trees. Almost nothing relies entirely on Google without an alternative.
And even if you have a use case where you do literally rely on a Google service, you can still make steps to cut out all other Google services.
Refusal to at least try is, of course, your prerogative. But it’s tacit approval of their actions.
You are talking out of your ass and throwing random-ass suggestions, presuming I haven’t tried anything already.
Well boys, pack it in. Our Google overlords give us no choice. All hail Google.
Fuck nuance right? Dumbass take.
Regulation is what’s needed. Not 7 nerds making their lives miserable to “Stick it Google” lmao.
If you’re waiting for government to save us, you’re going to be waiting a long time.
There are a couple of issues with that mentality, there are some countries in which money transitions almost entirely revolve around proprietary apps and services, Sweden for example (a decent article that talks about Sweden in particular). In my country, I can’t find any public information on which banks require apps and which don’t. The bank that I am currently using does have a website, but I have to login with a one-time password generated from an app. Also, going to a different bank assumes the same bank won’t do the same and exclusively require an app down the line.
I’ve actually never seen a bank that an app is the ONLY option. And two factor codes should be able to be generated by any number of (sometimes FOSS) apps.
Nope, only the banking app can be used to generate the code.
What is the bank?
PBZ.hr
edit: it does seem to support card readers, however, I have no idea if that method would work on Linux.
I feel like this isnt always true. I had a GrapheneOS pixel for a while and it never had problems with banking apps
GrapheneOS, so far, is Pixel-only. Degoogled, yes, but you’re still giving your money to Google, and a lot of it.
Buy used
Device is paid for, even if you buy from a re-seller (of any sort)
The only people who can de google are basically single shut ins with a job that doesnt use anything google.
If you have kids or a company that uses google products. It’s a bad fucking joke to talk like it’s even a realistic option.
Google is basically shoved down your throat. In most cases by the law literally. Seriously FUCK how tied the public education system is to google now.
if I don’t use android or iOS, I can’t use my banking apps, pay with my phone, access government services as they require an app to sign in, etc. it’s just not doable anymore for me
Ignoring the fact that iOS is an option, I bet you’re mostly mistaken and there is a web based or non app option for everything, even if it’s not obvious.
I think they are more conscious than to be driven by small margins (another example of such underestimation is Lenin’s “they’ll sell us the rope we’ll use to hang them”).
It’s like boiling frogs - a very slow process of attracting users, slowly killing competition and diversity, slowly making the ecosystem more and more controlled, then slowly making “neutral” systems not neutral anymore (like those features of Chrome making security exceptions for Google services found a few years ago), and slowly desensitizing people to leaps of faith they do trusting Google (and other companies), while the trust accumulates into total control.
This is not late stage capitalism. This is mid stage at best. The entire economy and world population could be shrunk down to literally pennies, as the wealth gap widens. It could have us ending up like district 9, or Elysium as broad examples. The govt and entities have not even started cracking down on illegal activities, loop holes, bank accounts, cash spending, crypto, and more in the super strict enforced fashion they could be.
While rightly fucked up and enshittified. We could be so so much further down the capitalism rabbit hole of hell. Everyone should be boycotting and avoiding the largest companies as a whole. No change you make goes unnoticed. You might be less than 1 percent but the snowball effects happen. Movements, parties, resistance, change, software, everything adds up.
So what you can do. Don’t go mentally insane about it. Most things don’t require THAT much effort. A simple tweak here or there makes an impact.
Its about time an open standard happened for mobile OSes.
That’s what Android was and they keep trying to undo that any way they can
We need a new one that isn’t made by a for-profit company that only was good at the beginning to get total market saturation before flipping the enshittification switch to maximize those profits.
why do we need a new one? can’t android be salvaged? lots of things have been solved already in a way that makes a relatively good foundation.
All the non-Google entities that build stuff on Android need to start banding together instead of siloing themselves. If AOSP is being closed, they need to create a non-profit replacement for it.
I guess if Google closes down AOSP it would get forked, and the fork would probably be a separate thing from the current Android distributions. So that the landscape would continue to look a bit like today, except that AOSP would be an independent thing.
Then I guess it's possible that Google would seek to make android apps incompatible, gradually making the whole thing kinda pointless. I can't say I'm using Android for the great UX - I'm using it because it supports a few apps I continue to be forced to use. If I can't use them on Android any more I'm switching to Ubuntu Touch or PostmarketOS in a heartbeat.
right! I never understood why isn’t there more cooperation between different foss roms, at least sharing patches and coordinating some work.
The fucked up part is nowadays third parties like banks or sometimes even governments make apps rely on Google services, so you can’t use an ungoogled phone for stuff you actually need for life…
Makes me curious if they think their monopoly or whatever they were called cases making them split their browser are going to go though. If you are going to have to sell parts of the company, now would be the time to hammer home any last minute bad things that would make the companies more profitable. Shows higher income for the sale, and gets it out of the way so the new purchaser doesn’t look like the ones who did it, but rather the ones who will make announcements on how they will review things to make them better for the user base.
Doesn’t mean they’ll follow through on them, but it takes the evil and sticks it with the old owners.
I disagree. Google has always been a thinly veiled Microsoft. A wolf in sheeps clothing. They embrace, extend, extinguish. It’s the same thing.
All corporations suck fucking donkey dick because consumers are morons.
We need open bootloader and drivers for phones to make any real progress on this. This is what’s holding back all initiatives.
I wonder if the generic tablets with made up Asian sounding names that you see on the big marketplaces could work? They could have slightly larger or smaller screens if they’re cheaper than current phone screens, and could have Linux with something like Signal on them for calling.
They’d probably be lower quality to begin with, but could potentially get better if people start to buy them. They seem to have generic hardware, so might be able to offer the drivers and unlockable bootloaders too :)
I’d be worried about vulnerabilities.
and many phone manfacterers, issuers(non google, samsung, or IOs) IS CONSIDERING locking down thier phones.
FuriOS? Linux-based and runs Android apps.
furilabs.com
Not bad, it looks like I have to buy their phone though. Which is not cheap, or performant guessing by the specs despite what the advertising says.
I saw someone else recommending it. I only hope they take this opportunity to release the OS for everyone, but since they’re for-profit, I doubt they will.
Whenever you see a linux phone advertise both security and android app support, you should be wary, since it’s likely waydroid or a waydroid fork, and their design goal of running android in a container instead of a VM has lead to some interesting security decisions.
Interesting. Thanks for sharing!
Still using Android 11? Holy hell.
You realize how many things have gotten shittier since android 11? Accubattery isn’t even allowed to monitor everything using up juice any more. You can’t customize your own charging curves, you’re locked out of accessing portions of your storage on your own phone, and a lot of great power user apks had to completely hit themselves or just stop working all together.
What do you need from after 11 that an apk wouldn’t have allowed you to do already?
I would be very happy if anyone could explain to me in a simple and coherent way why I, as a normal user who am aware of what I am doing on my device and am not targeted by any group that's out to get me, would need a "hardened malloc", "secure app spawning", "vanadium browser and webview", or a "hardened PDF viewer". The last of these four is the only thing that means anything to me, and it sounds dumb. Yeah, I know PDFs can be dangerous if you open random shit, but come on.
If I run Waydroid it's only to get my banking app (trusted source) and Whatsapp (not a trusted source but not directly malware either) working. I hardly need their hardened PDF reader.
Not just your two android apps, any program on your system that is aware of your waydroid installation could potentially use it as a path to escalate themselves to root, which is generally regarded as a bad outcome. If you don’t care about that kind of thing, or don’t think that could ever happen to you, that’s certainly within your rights to hold such a viewpoint.
Interesting. I’ve not heard of FuriOS, but if it is a Linux phone that actually can be used with US carriers, makes calls and supports SMS/MMS, and can do VoLTE that’s a actually a pretty big deal.
the best outcome for the short term would be to forcibly take away android from google and give it to an independent foundation. as I heard antitrust proceedings in the usa were heading that way a few months ago
Such things are solvable with a bribe in the USA.
not with trump around.
And he’s very easily bribed which corporations have caught onto.
So basically remove Google integration from AOSP?
I mean taking away the development access to the project. what do you mean? google based captive portal checks and the similar hidden “gems”?
I don’t know about anyone else, but I got into computers at a young age because it gave me a sense of control over something. I didn’t understand everything, but I could do a lot of trial and error, read things and experiment, build cool things, and I shared a sense of community with some random internet strangers based on that knowledge.
In a world where we are so powerless in so many other ways, why did we insist on bringing that power dynamic into the new bright tech sphere? Why did we have to do that? (N.B. this is rhetorical questioning).
In the new Alien Earth TV show, 5 corporations basically run everything… unfortunately I suspect thats where we are headed as a species.
My university actually teaches about the “Meger Endgame theory” (yes, my professor had fun with that one), which states that industries will consolidate until 2-3 global market leaders dominate. So uhh, it’s not just you. Idk if that’s good or bad news for you haha
There are at least two generations of us who are disappointed at the contrast between tech’s possibilities as envisioned decades ago and the corporate surveillance crap we have to put up with today.
The thing that really gets to me is how we’ve gone from “Here, let us sell you a computer that you can push to its limits however you see fit” to “We will sell you a device and ensure you use that device within a given sphere of acceptability”.
I own this phone/computer/tablet/console/whatever, so why the fuck do I have to adhere to their rules? Rules they’ve changed since I bought the device, of course.
We, as in the average every day people, didn’t do shit. The corporations that make the shit we use are the ones who got us here. The only thing the people using the devices and software are guilty of is not making a fuss about losing control over the stuff becsuse the average person does not care that deeply about the tools and likely doesn’t even know about a good 75% of what was lost.
Sadly the majority of normal people don’t want control. They just want it to do some trivial task without any fuss at any cost.
.
Ive worked on all computer platforms, I actually find Mac to be the one thats the most difficult to get to do what I want.
You’re supposed to stick to doing what Apple thinks you want to do, how Apple thinks you want to do it.
This isn’t a computer, its a phone.
Thanks for your low quality input.
This isn’t a comment, it’s negative feedback.
This sucks for the average person but, well, everything tends to. If you don’t look for avenues around literally everything “default”, you’re being scammed. They don’t, so they will be.
I do, so I’ll be carrying a Oneplus 6T and slapping a mobile Linux OS on it for my needs.
For you.
Ive got the 7T. What OS are you gonna use?
I’m going to try all of them. I’ve always wanted to just go to ebay, buy a 6T and try some of these operating systems. It’s the target phone for about half of them. What interests me the most is Plasma Mobile on PostmarketOS. It looks slick and not too dissimilar from Android.
Linux on mobile is very model specific. The 6T isn’t even perfectly supported by anything, it’s just supported enough to be functional.
Why the 6T? Just the right mix of hardware that released with the right mix of software to make it ideal. the Pixel 3 also had a lot of Linux compatibility.
What about flip phones?
There is an interesting new breed of flip phones that can be tethered to for internet access. I could imagine a flip-phone + laptop setup being perfect for a lot of users here.
I think my CatB40 dumb phone does tethering, a flip phone would look cooler though. What are some good ones to look for? But as I occasionally have it in a pouch for kayaking it might not be the most useful to have a flip phone as you can’t really open it when its sealed. But if cheap enough I could always swap a SIM between a few.
And this is why the real solution we need is enforcement of anti-trust law, not mere individual boycotts.
This is unfortunately true. I’m glad some people realize it, but I wish we didn’t have to.
This abuse needs to end. Heads are going to roll.
So Newpipe, SmartTube, Nintendo emulators…
Clones of opensource apps bundled with ads that violates license is OK, but restricting everyone to build and test apps from source so it can test new features and report any issues is too risky for the user
Literally anyone who simply wants their privacy.
People voted for this with their wallets.
As an iPhone guy, I know we already have it like that, and our keyboard has always sucked (and none of the third party keyboards help, they all suck compared to Gboard on Android), but while we dread the day that Apple becomes a data broker like Google… that day is not here yet.
I have bad news for you: they already sell your information to advertisers.
pluralistic.net/2024/…/reality-distortion-field/#…
I mean… it’s hilarious that people still use Chrome when it has been a known back actor for years and years. Firefox is an excellent option and the more people that use it, the more it encourages companies to keep supporting open web standards.
Likewise, if you set an iPhone to use Advanced Data Protection, it’s probably quite a bit more secure from intrusion than a similar Android phone. (And definitely more secure from subpoena.)
i abandoned it ever since they say they slow down incognito mode, and prevent the liberal use of adblockers, or extensions.
You can pretend your iPhone isn’t owned by a corporation that just swore fealty to the current regime, but until its running a custom ROM it isn’t fucking yours.
Only phone that comes your own from factory I’d maybe the pinephone. Otherwise, get a pixel, rip out the factory OS install, and throw Graphen OS on it.
Both Android AND iOS have taken code from Graphene and used it to secure their codebases. Its probably one of, if not the most secure OS available to the average person today.
Apologies if this is the wrong place to ask, but I literally have no idea in which community this question goes.
I just got Samsung Galaxy A16, and then I learn just how controlling Google/Android is becoming. Research says I SHOULD be able to deGoogle and flash a
linux OScustom Android ROMMy question is, as a beginner, which one should I go for? does it have any issues I need to look out for?
Note: Edited for clarity.
Are you sure you’re not thinking of custom Android ROMs like LineageOS or /e/OS?
Because there are ROMs like Ubuntu Touch, but they’re less developed than the other Android ROMs.
For reference, ive tried /e/OS, LineageOS and DivestOS (RIP).
So far I felt like /e/OS was the most polished.
Your right. Thats what I meant. Ill edit the comment.
Neat.
I’ll also add: after DivestOS died, I got a Pixel to run GrapheneOS.
So I’ve tried that too, and it’s the best by far.
The reason for disliking LineageOS is its dependence on Aurora Store (Google Play mirror).
Maybe it has gotten better over the past year, but it was always quite buggy. Some apps wouldn’t install from Aurora, others weren’t found, it was a pain in the ass.
/e/OS uses a different app store (which is also a mirror) but tends to work much better.
Huh, using aurora for a few apps that aren’t foss, didn’t know there are any issues with it. I’m impressed how crisp it is.
I suppose it depends on which apps you’re trying to grab.
What does /e/OS use as an app store?
They use their own in-built all store. It works better for me than aurora (based on the state of both a year ago)
What’s it called? Can you use it on other platforms
App Lounge. No, you cannot.
You cannot do so on Samsung devices. They have disabled the ability to unlock the bootloader on their devices and therefore you cannot install custom operating systems on them anymore.
If you want to install custom software like that, you always have to do your research beforehand and choose a device that will allow you to do so.
Since when is this the case?
Since OneUI 8.0.
Dammit :(
Further reading says its most likely because European Union law 2014/53/EU which imposes new cybersecurity requirements on device manufacturers like Samsung. They must ensure that the devices they sell in Europe block the installation of unauthorized software and only run signed and approved ROMs. . Law was enforced August 01 2025.
Luckily my old phone still works (it is starting to show its age though). Gonna stretch it as long as possible. Hopefully someone will find a hack by then.
Seems like a cheap excuse, the law doesn’t say specifically that.
But, of course, manufacturers like to lock down their devices as much as possible. And such laws play into their hands.
Yeah that’s their excuse, luckily the law explicitly says that:
eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX…
.
My Note 20 Ultra (US) came out like 5+ years ago and you can’t unlock the bootloader. There was a workable hack job that was possible for a little while, but even that got patched up through a firmware update back in like 2021, and there’s no way to roll back firmware anymore, either.
probably will be an older model that isnt sold anymore by samsung.
You should return your Samsung for a refund and then start over with a device from a company that’s less abusive.
Not possible in Third World Countries :(
Well that sucks.
In that case, sell your Samsung secondhand and then start over with a device from a company that’s less abusive.
In third world countries I think Samsung’s allows you to unlock the bootloader. Open developer options and see if there’s a tic box for “OEM unlock”
Don’t use it. Be smart.
What’s my better option at this point?
Lemmy fucking HATES Apple but I trust Apple more than Google tbh
I stopped all Google stuff like 15 years ago
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/4e152b93-e4f9-4cea-9d4b-3fdae6ee4e26.jpeg">
You don’t like the better option. Beggars can’t be choosers.
?
When reading cyberpunk lore, quickhacks didn’t make any sense to me. Some programs that break cyberware because of backdoors, but why would people install cyberware with backdoors?
Now I look at the sad state of mobile market and, yeah ok, that makes sense.
That makes sense and all but where does the poison come from??
I mean the cyberware is a direct neural interface so presumably it must be able to manipulate and alter the levels and balance of your neurotransmitters. Im sure increasing aome to insane levels would have pretty toxic effects, like serotonin syndrome for example.
I suppose that’s a good enough hand wave explanation.
I thought though, just purely for curiosities sake, that neurotransmitters are released by a voltage potential difference over some sort of gate caused by a flood of sodium ions (a chemical signal), and it’s not just a matter of conducting current. That means the cyberware has to somehow attach inside the axon and on the outside, across the gate to create that voltage difference. And that’s for one gate.
I feel like the more one thinks about this the more the name should be changed to 3077.
Some really vicious backdoor that contains dangerous substance in a hidden chamber? Not a far reach when we are talking about corporate backdoors normalized.
Year of the Linux phone, I guess.
God, I wish.
You can’t sideload on Linux.
just dont update your phone problem solved
This is likely via silent updates of Google’s Play Services.
Or forced updates
We still need security updates.
chrome is at thier limits, since people can just use a different browser/
And they can suckle upon my peener.
I’ll go to Graphine or something else before I let the company for whom “don’t be evil” was too bold a statement dictate my fuckin’ choices.
I already ditched Windows. Can’t be that hard to cut Google out too.
Graphene has locked itself to google hardware, and google can cripple them at any point by stopping bootloader unlocks. We need to go deeper, or aim higher as it were
Not that they locked themselves but other vendors locked and isolated themselves by not provideing enough hardware and software security measures so graphebne will be able to strenghten them
They have stated that they’re more than willing to work with any manufacturer who is prepared to make a device that meets their security standards. But as it stands, Pixels are the only unlockable devices that meet that standard.
Someone like Fairphone could do pretty well from a tie-in with Graphene. But it’s up to them.
They haven’t locked themselves to Google hardware by choice, it’s the only hardware with the security features they need so far.
Remember graphenes goal is a very secure OS, not just a more private degoogled one, for that there’s /e/os and other options that support more hardware.
Librem profits +++$$$ It may be the end for u if u use a mobile for games… If not - Just buy some open-source phone like Librem or
PinePhone, they also have Linux available:)Literally do not
Do not what?
Do not get a pinephone, whatever you do. I have owned both a PP and PPP and they are just ass. Pine64 is relying on the work of one single developer who does pretty much all the hardware support stuff and that in their free time. Development is slow, battery life is terrible, the hardware is trash and quality control is a mess.
I tried really hard to like them, gave them every benefit of the doubt, but no luck.
Don’t bother. Get literally any non-pine phone with PMOS support
Oh well I thought it’s nice😨
Yeah well luckily for them, people don’t seem to know how to write anything but webapps anymore anyway.
In an environment most convenient for making webapps people make webapps.
It’s not even such a wrong idea honestly, if the “web” in “webapp” were a bit leaner and you’d make local applications with something document-oriented for GUI looking at a local service. It’s just a decent bit of structure to make application design easier. Nothing wrong with that IMHO.
But, ahem, when by “webapp” we mean that we have a browser fulfilling the role of an operating system, and there’s one company making it, then something is wrong.
I heard that voyager is a website under the hood
Fuck google
Easily the most disgusting company in the planet and it’s funny that their old motto/slogan was ”Don’t be evil”.
I’ve recently gotten to think that the company which made the basement for all these disgusting companies is usually viewed as not just not disgusting, but almost holy. Meaning Sun. So, maybe, judging the tree by its fruits, the most disgusting company was Sun.
I mean, I know that everyone who used their products and of course people who worked there are still in awe and remember it like a Soviet summer camp shown in the Everlasting Summer game.
But perhaps that’s misguided. They’ve built the hierarchical systems, the infrastructure, for all the dystopia of today, and their code still powers much of it.
Also you know how the second competitor in an almost monopolized market is sometimes considered an accomplice of monopoly? Because they are strong enough to support some of its ways, while the rest are not. So they reinforce it. I’m also looking at Firefox writing this. Literally.
Perhaps we’d have a better environment office-wise if LibreOffice and OpenOffice were not a thing. They support MS formats, thus indirectly contributing to MS dominance. The network effects work in a few different ways, while were it different, those desperately needing MS documents would use MSO, at the same time those just needing some office suite would possibly not.
Perhaps that can also be applied to Unix and Unix-likes, Sun made a lot of momentum for Unix and Unix-like desktops when they contributed to TCL/Tk so that it became a tool for making Unix and Unix-like desktop applications easily. And when they created Java and Java applets in web browsers prepared the public for scripts in browsers and cross-platform applications served over net.
Yes, it all felt like heaven behind the corner, but perhaps they are to blame. What if.
After all, much of that was free or for the cost of a CD then, and free cheese usually is part of a trap. Perhaps if instead commercial competing platforms, like Amiga or even Apple, were to gain more following, we’d have a different world. All those development resources couldn’t have been gifted (Sun in the 90s, I mean, and honestly many universities) out of nowhere, something made that worth the expense.
Or, if we want free and open, Lisp environments are somewhat easier to hack on (also again about TCL, it kinda approaches that in convenience for a non-programmer to make something simple, quick and dirty, but good enough), and accessibility to wider, eh, masses is meaningful here. So maybe GNU shouldn’t have gone with a Unix-like system idea. I mean, OK, they do have a Lisp environment fit for everything, it’s called Emacs.
BTW, about disgusting companies coming to mind first, I’m not disgusted by Oracle, in comparison to most other big ones they do honest business. I dunno why they are hated, uncle Larry says dystopian shit with enthusiasm and no remorse, but at the same time his company sells exactly what it advertises. It’s all kinda open and straightforward, it’s the “one rich asshole called Larry Ellison” company, which may not be what someone likes, but is certainly better than companies actively building worldwide digital fascism (it, of course, offers expertise and help to those who do in case they need it). Also he’s really a self-made man. Unlike all those other types from good families, good environments and with good education.
OK. I just have that conspiracy theory brewing in my mind about Sun actually being evil. Sorry.
Sounds like you’re not familiar with Oracle…
One rich asshole called Larry Ellison…?
Can someone just do the needful?
that spy app they were using a few months ago was just the first test.
What is this people keep referring to it
the android safetycore app.
Already using GrapheneOs on my phone, so fuck Google.
Is it good?
It’s very “meh…” with the added benefit of several (non-google) apps not working (/s). I choose to live with this inconvenience, but it still bothers me that my smartphone is significantly less useful in my daily life.
Having not used default Android for many years now, what makes GrapheneOS worse (aside from a few apps not working - which isn’t an issue I’ve had, fortunately)?
GrapheneOS is not worse than other custom ROMs, never said it was. it’s a mediocre experience best described with a “meh…” and a shrug.
Sorry, I was asking about GrapheneOS vs stock Android. I assumed that your comments on it were in comparison to stock Android since that’s what the previous user most likely was asking for.
The answer is the same, very average.
You always have a choice. You can ditch your morals entirely, give up, be subservient to the capitalists and give your identity over fully to the system like the good little consumer slave you are and enjoy your normie life looking at your normie phone and toss us all out as tinfoil-hatted weirdos who almost convinced you to make your life worse for the sake of self-sufficiency, independence and privacy.
No one in the real world will ever know, care, or judge you. Only you will know that you gave up, that every location you exist in is known about by someone behind a monitor being overseen by fascists. Every day! You can live with that, right? That’s a small thing to give up in the grand scheme of things, isn’t it? At least Youtube loaded today, right? It’s all worth it, lol.
Just remember to type “thanks” in google keyboard whenever you want them to know you appreciate them. They log it.
Dead Kennedys were prophetic when they named one of their albums “Give me convenience or give me death”.
Oh yes I forgot that pointing out the flaws in privacy-related things, so people who are interested in switching know what they’re potentially getting in to, is a big NoNo here…all hail the perfect FOSS which can do no wrong.
The purity tests are so exhausting
Yup, privacy (and many other things) should be done to ones ability and not to ability of others.
.
They’re the ones foisting their requirements on others. Somebody shares what they do, and the purists come storming in with their righteous condescension. Nobody asked for that negativity.
In this case, your assessment is fair - user is harsh, name-calls, and does talk down to the person they were responding to/the reader. I got lost in the chain.
Regardless, accusations of purity testing come up more than enough online for my liking and it isn’t always in response to righteous condescension, as you aptly described the user’s behavior in this example.
Wow, this definitely isn’t reddit! Thank you for having a reasonable discussion.
Don’t feel pressured by me. If you feel pressured yourself, it may be a form of projected guilt.
If you don’t find privacy and security important enough to give up your connectivity or usability, that’s perfectly fine. I don’t have to live with it.
Honestly, smart phones being less useful in daily life is probably a good thing.
Yes, ive had zero issues with it 👍
You have to pay google to use it (only works on pixel phones afaik).
There’s a thriving used market with significant discounts if you’re willing to go 1-2 models back from the latest ones.
I went from 15 years of iPhones directly to Graphene, without really messing with Android in between, so my experience has been a STEEP learning curve, followed by a fairly hum-drum experience. But honestly, that’s fine. I want my phone to take more of a back seat and not be something I keep needing to worry about.
My banking app doesn’t work in Graphene, but the website does, so I don’t really mind.
It could that there’s a whole bunch of shit I’m missing, but mostly it’s… fine.
Yes, light and my apps work without draining the battery in the background.
Sucks that it only works on devices made by Google though…
You have LineageOS for many other devices.
The issue isn’t that. It’s that devs may juat abandon projects if they’re too naughty for Google cos the custom ROM crowd is so tiny.
Right so think torrent clients, idk, Pornhub app, that sort of thing. Yeah, it doesn’t affect your phone. But it absolutely will affect what software is available at all should Google clamp down on this.
Wait until Google locks the bootloader.
I know that the GrapheneOS team have mumbled about the possibility of working on their own device. Although, this would probably be a long way off if it ever did come to fruition.
Maybe shit like this will push them down that road faster. We need options for sure.
Donate to the project. Graphene is run by a very small group of people who are very good at automation.
I don’t think they could effectively produce a whole new platform unless they had a lot more help.
If you value privacy, gonna have to crack open the wallet or volunteer to help.
If we just hope someone will save us, we are going to be very disappointed.
But, what happens when Google decides to no longer the option to unlock the bootloader for future phones? It’s the future that is the concern when it comes to the degoogle options available.
Then the community shifts to a different model, or puts more resources behind mobile Linux projects, and all that would need to happen is something like what Valve did for Linux for the Steam Deck.
I’m ready to switch to a Linux phone as soon as I can find one where the basic phone features work properly (MMS, wake from sleep, camera, etc). The more people like me can switch, the closer we’ll be to mainstream adoption. That’s the same process as Linux has been going through: I switched before Steam on Linux was a thing, then Steam came and more switched, then Proton made windows games work and more switched, etc, and now we’re seeing the start of “normal” people switching.
I hope that happens before my Pixel 8 goes out of support or breaks.
furilabs.com/shop/flx1/
I’m already seriously considering giving this a go as my next phone soon. My current phone is desperately in need of replacement.
If it goes well I will be vocal about it.
If I were to switch to a Linux phone I’d want it to be made for an open and trusted OS, not the (unknown to me at least) manufacturers own.
Eh, you’d want something like this to run something custom, because there’s going to be a lot of iteration and it’ll be harder to push things through a distribution they don’t control.
It seems to be Debian based and has some customizations to make work w/ Android apps nicer (Halium support).
I would personally prefer PostmarketOS, but I’d be fine w/ that being a community effort as long as Furilabs doesn’t block installing alternatives.
It is based on Debian (Droidian to be specific I believe), which to me reads as a fork or maybe a distro flavor with out of the box tweaks to specifically work with the hardware they are selling.
They say they aren’t stopping you from installing anything else you want on the phone, they just aren’t going to offer help getting a different OS to work, which is reasonable to me.
Yeah, it looks cool, but I’m not really in a position to be a guinea pig. If they were around 2 years ago, I probably would’ve given it a shot.
I am looking for another phone at some point in the next year (kids getting about that age), so if I hear good things, I might just pull the trigger. It is a bit chonkier than my current phone, which isn’t great (30mm longer, 10mm wider, and 110g heavier), but according to reviews, it seems to fix all the issues I have w/ the PinePhone.
Who knows, maybe your review will push me over the edge in deciding to get it.
What kind of phone?
I want to know, too. I got a Samsung s23 when my last phone suddenly died and I only then realized thar it wasn’t compatible.
The joke is that GrapheneOS only works on Google Pixel phones.
I noticed that, and they are expensive.
Bought a Pixel 7a new below 350 EUR last december. Buying used is also an option.
That is reasonably priced. I have another year on my current phone before it is paid off. I armored it up like there is no tomorrow so it should last without a breakage.
I had a problem for years of buying cases and tempered glass for my phone since I had a phone break BECAUSE of those things.
Fuck Google!
Gives Google $900
I spent a mere $500 for my Pixel 9a. Most expensive phone I’ve ever owned. But at least I can send a text message from inside my house and make phones from out in my yard now.
Eh, I got a used Pixel 8 for $350 or so, and it works great with GrapheneOS.
My gold standard is a proper Linux phone, but those aren’t reliable enough yet, so using Google’s phone is the next best option.
You can get a cheap refurb Pixel. The returns are very diminishing these days on new models anyway.
Pixel 6
google is pissed people were deleting that spying app on android phones, plus thier constant attack on adblocking on youtube wasnt working to well. since samsung and iphones pretty much walled in thier os, why not google.
Spying app?
Google play is spyware
play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.…
play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.…
Thanks! I remember safety codes now: it looks at all your pictures and says it only blocks CSAM, but who knows if it is trustworthy or if it misidentifies something.
The other o e from what I can tell is trying to add e2ee to google message? How does it spy?
Edit: grouphowto.com/com-google-android-contactkeys/
Looks like it is mostly a good thing?
I don’t know much about them to be honest, these were just the apps people were talking about
The EU’s been breathing down Apple’s neck for them trying to do similar shit, so i find the timing kinda weird.
Plus they’d need to force-update their spyware first, i wonder how many versions of android they’re willing to go back.
I think the update is already installed, just waiting for the kill switch.
Yet Apple has been able to profit from their walled garden for decades now. Doesn’t that set a precedent that it’s okay? I honestly don’t blame Google for going this route—it’s inaction from our policymakers that has created the space for abuse.
When our policymakers take direction from capitalists, it’s ok to blame to capitalists.
Yeah I was going to say it’s better to blame the policy makers but who the fuck cares? Neither side of that coin does.
Interesting perspective. So the suggestion is to redirect our blame away from our elected representatives or even from electing representatives that run on a campaign that aligns with our priorities.
There’s more than enough blame to go around. It’s not a zero sum game.
I’m not sure how you came to that conclusion based on what I wrote, but my suggestion is to not let companies escape consequences for shitty things they do simply because regulators fail to be effective at their jobs. Legally allowed is not the same as morally acceptable.
The EU has been targeting Apple for years now for not allowing sideloading (the whole Fortnite drama) and ruled that no, Apple can’t bar users from installing shit.
Apple requires developers to go through a Notarization process, much in the same way that Google intends to introduce restrictions to sideloading on Android. How is this different?
It isn’t, now that apple is using that to block installation of third party apps I’m expecting the EU to once again step in.
Are you kidding me? How am I supposed to live in this damn Orwellian society that is coming?
Always has been
Look up Microsoft in the early 90s and how we all got through it.
tbf, we all got through it by just going to other platforms. now there’s almost no other platforms to go to because big tech either pressures them until they fold, or sell to them and become part of their umbrella as some shill company or they remain independent but still use big tech software to run their backend, so your info ends up going to them anyway.
i think in the future, everyone will be forced into surveillance by default and those who don’t will have to either pay dearly for privacy or learn how to program their own security. checkout project gideon that’s already getting pitched to the united states government and other governments from israel. it’s literally that show “person of interest” plus
Pretty sure they’re talking about antitrust lol
Is this only google phones or all of android?
Anything that “officially” has the google play store.
Sucks. Thanks.
now it’s just a race for the giant conglomerates to make the worst decisions for consumers
Your computer no longer “computes”, its just a barebones terminal to access a “virtual pc” in the cloud.
Good news, you don’t need to pay $1000 for a good laptop, all you need is this $50 windows machine that only runs a client that streams a live feed from MS Headquarters
Bad news, its a subscription, stop paying and you lose all files.
Wait a minute did you type a “Eat The Rich” document, sorry can’t have that, violates ToS, deleted.
Fahrenheit 451 x 1984
894,784 degrees
Yep. There’s no such thing as competition any more.
Tech companies are just gas stations across the street from each other.
and you don’t have a choice atp its just forced enshittifcation down your throat!!
I’m not giving up my off the market pixel dungeon mods.
Shattered pixel dungeon? Or is there another version?
Several others that have been taken out of the store completely or that never got in, like unbreakable pixel dungeon is the old regular pixel dungeon without item degradation.
The year of the Linux mobile is coming.
furilabs.com/shop/flx1/
Neat! And a removable battery.
Debian too! Always liked me some Debian, super stable.
Sign me the fuck up!
The specs look quite decent, and it even has an SD card slot. I really would love to get away from android.
IS THAT A FUCKING HEADPHONE JACK!?
Let’s go 🔥🔥🔥
Standards are low huh?
Well all the major brands are below that…
It’s nice, and good to see more of a push. However, I think kill switches for at least microphone and camera should be the new default. It’s absolutely ridiculous to walk around with an internet connected mic and a camera that looks at your face whenever you look at your phone. Personally, I’ll never carry a phone around anymore that doesn’t have mics and cameras desoldered or there’s a kill switch. For the back camera a cover with a slide is fine, but doesn’t really work with the front part.
I would carry around a flip phone if my work didn’t require Passkeys generated exclusively from MS Authenticator.
I just put stickers on the selfie camera.
I want to believe, I really do. But I fear that the crypto apps people have grown dependent on will make it harder than the desktop battle. And IDK but I seem to recall every year since at least 2001 being proclaimed to be the year of the Linux desktop.
I rely on my banking apps (plural), governmental email app, government authentificator app and the governmental LMS app for public schools to make my everyday function. And the last time I tried just a custom ROM, those apps refused to run.
A phone that can’t do NFC payment, banking and authenticator work is not a phone. It’s a pile of shit that’s little more than a toy for children.
Nothing wrong with toys, but they arnt useable products worth any amount of real money.
is this legit?
As long as companies can keep pumping shitty, almost entirely closed off android phones that cost less than 200 dollars for consumers (selling hardware at a loss while making up for data harvesting and sale), “linux mobile” will be just another meme along with “year of the linux desktop”
okay well goodbye Google, then
what’s the alternative here?
!remindme 2 years
Does !remindme work on Lemmy?
!remindme 1 day
Narrator: it does not work on Lemmy
Yeah that’s the issue, when it comes to mobile, anyway
As shitty as M$ is, it would have been nice to see Windows phone become moderately successful and be a third primary mobile os.
That’s would just be Windows 11 S ~Mobile~ ~Edition~, but you do not get the option to upgrade to Windows 11 Home ~Mobile~ ~Edition~ as you would on a PC
Or maybe you do get an option, but its a subscription for $50 per quarter-year. 🫠
And 16GB storage (because everything is being saved to OneDrive anyway).
Not much different than Google. Keeping their mobile device storage low and then officially advising people to just store stuff on Google drive instead.
Thus driving people to pay for Google One.
Meh, that’s not real competition… the big one just collude
I didn’t hate my Windows Phone when I had one.
I did, it fucking sucked
No way - it was a good phone at the time. I had a Lumia 640 and it worked like a charm. There was only a small range of apps, but the main features worked fine: mail, calendar, messaging, camera and route planner with a map. There were news readers, Acrobat. I did not miss much and if M$ sold it’s software better to other manufacturers than Nokia, I think it would have worked well and fitted between Apple and Google.
I would have rather seen the development of BBOS10. It was so far ahead of its time.
That whole thing we do with swipe gestures to navigate the android interface? Yeah BBOS had that years ago.
I miss my Passport.
I still have my BlackBerry Passport.
I disagree. That would’ve just been more garbage like with the xbox.
I’m playing gears on PS5 as we speak. Ha ha. What a shipwreck XBOX has become.
That’s great news. Exclusivity is not good for the consumer/gamer. Now you can play more games on your console.
As a platform holder is terrible, I have a series X and it’s a paperweight.
with chrome, ope, edge
I’d prefer that firefox os had caught on and turned into a big player today
Fuck them. I have a guitar a pocket watch and a wind uo radio. Everything have is a nicety.
I kinda want a 2.5" round screen fit into a pocketwatch case. Give it an nrf52, lora, bt, wifi.
I came here specifically to ask about alternatives to Android now that google is becoming too abusive in the relationship.
GrapheneOS works well. But only on pixel devices.
Ironic that you need a Google smartphone, isn’t it?
That’s unfortunately a dealbreaker for me. I have a free phone from some company I’ve never heard of and I don’t plan on buying a new one. Hopefully we will see more progress on mobile operating systems in the coming years.
Unfortunately, things are heading in the opposite direction. The number of phones you can install other os’s on is dwindling by the day. Even the phones designed solely for this purpose are failing to capture enough market to remain sustainable.
The OS’s are getting there by leaps and bounds, but you being able to install it on anything is the hard part.
Not android or apple. I’ll go to a prepaid flip phone before I give apple a cent. They’re essentially the paragon of greed.
Custom Android ROMs based on AOSP, which is the open source parts of Android. I used to use LineageOS back in the day.
Before buying a phone, make sure that it has an unlockable bootloader and a custom ROM of a recent Android version. Note that some phones have multiple versions for different regions and some might not be unlockable, while others are. For example many Samsung international phones are unlockable, but none of the USA models are.
Note that many commercial apps like Netflix, Pokémon Go, bank apps, etc. will refuse to run if your bootloader is unlocked. It also permanently trips Samsung’s Knox.
Unfortunately, this seems to be something that might be changing in the future. Google isn’t going to be open source with android development anymore.
I was looking into it a few ago. I found something made in Europe which advertise as more consumer friendly (Fairphone). If I got it right they want to stand out of the crowd by:
The second point could be interesting, considering this Google abusive behavior towards users. Moreover, there is another thing that caught my attention: their devices (the last one is missing, but maybe it’s just too new?) are supported by Ubuntu Touch, which should be just a Linux OS running on phones. That would be my dream, so that I can consider my phone just a computer with all the freedom I can get, such as write down my bash/python/C applications to do what I want to do without having to mess up with all that Android development suite.
However, if I am not mistaken, in the past I heard some bad reviews about Fairphone, so you should perform your due diligence.
I feel like this is the new normal cycle of every software company. Once they become a leader, it’s never enough. It replicates the rise of billionaires. Just as the billionaires being rich beyond anything they and all of their succeeding generations could ever spend is not enough, being the industry leader and producing an amazing product that people want is somehow not enough. It always turns to control and power.
I can’t wait for AI to become a living corporate trillionaire entity and fuck us all to the end of humanity.
At some point they get large enough that the whims of users cease to affect their decision-making. If Google, Meta, and MS tomorrow rolled out a social credit system that made the Chinese version look generous, 95+% of their users would not change a THING to avoid it. Maybe 98% of their users.
Time to back to the analog world and short wave radios.
Lemmy would rock in Morse code
It would only be days before someone builds logic gates using Morse code somehow (who am I kidding, it probably already exists), and we recreate the entire thing again lol
Are we already nostalgic for analog oligarchy?
We burned down the past we can burn down the future too.
I’m bothered that big companies, especially tech right now, no longer see their customers as people they need to please to stay in business, but instead as something they’ll inconvenience and squeeze as much as they can possibly get away with.
They all got to where they are making, at one point, amazing products. Now? Fuck making windows useful, we can throw ads and AI at you every place we can think of. Fuck all of the parts of Android that made it stand out, we tell you what to install. You don’t want all of your data scraped and sold? Fuck you, there’s 3 of us and we’re all doing it. In fact we’ll never stop finding new ways to harvest data.
Phones have basically stagnated entirely in the US. Sure you get moderately better chipsets, but what else? AI? I haven’t had a phone struggle with anything in… maybe 10 years. Instead features that people didn’t use enough just get removed.
I’m actively looking for a new phone that has 0 Google in it, and am looking ad de-Googling the rest of my life.
I remember being genuinely hyped about Gmail in 2008. Now, I don’t want them accessing any of my data.
I’m taking steps, slowly, as well. I’m getting off windows very soon, I’m working on getting off of various services these companies run one at a time. Depending on what really happens with Android and Google we’ll see.
Another way of deGoogling would be to, ironically, use a Pixel phone and side-load a privacy focused OS like Graphene or CalyxOS. With them, literally everything needs express permissions to be used, whether it’s your camera, location, microphone, etc. You can even sandbox the Play Store and other Google services so they can’t access your deeper files.
CalyxOS is not hardened in any way and is in some ways less secure than stock AOSP. They are also on a hiatus and have discontinued updates: …grapheneos.org/…/24791-departure-of-calyx-calyxo…
Huh… That’s news to me. When I was first looking into it, that OS was mentioned here and there. I ended up putting Graphene on my phone and left it at that, so I didn’t even bother keeping up with any of the other stuff.
First time?
Nah, just cranky about it.
Users are the commodity to be traded. They have what they see as a business model that’s too big to fail. And the users agree!
of course google wants every developers id the second they get into bed with a fascist federal government