azorius.net

Apple considered switching to DuckDuckGo from Google for Safari - Bloomberg News (www.reuters.com)
from bathalumang_peppa@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 05:14
https://lemmy.world/post/6322209

#technology

threaded - newest

autotldr@lemmings.world on 05 Oct 2023 05:15 next collapse

This is the best summary I could come up with:

Oct 4 (Reuters) - Apple (AAPL.O) held talks with DuckDuckGo to replace Alphabet’s (GOOGL.O) Google as the default search engine for the private mode on Apple’s Safari browser, the Bloomberg News reported on Wednesday, citing people familiar with the discussions.

The details of the talks are expected to be released later this week, according to the report, after Judge Amit Mehta, overseeing a federal antitrust suit against Google, ruled on Wednesday that he would unseal the testimony of DuckDuckGo CEO Gabriel Weinberg and Apple executive John Giannandrea.

Apple, DuckDuckGo and Google did not immediately respond to a Reuters request for comment.

Last month, the U.S. Department of Justice in a landmark U.S. trial argued Google, which has some 90% of the search market, illegally paid $10 billion annually to smartphone makers such as Apple and wireless carriers like AT&T (T.N) and others to be the default in search on their devices in order to stay on top.

Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella testified on Monday, saying that tech giants were competing for vast troves of content needed to train artificial intelligence, and complained Google was locking up content with expensive and exclusive deals with publishers.

He added that Microsoft had sought to make its Bing search engine the default on Apple smartphones but was rebuffed.

The original article contains 241 words, the summary contains 214 words. Saved 11%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!

tsonfeir@lemm.ee on 05 Oct 2023 05:36 next collapse

Wow, USB-C and DDG in the same year? Look at Apple trying to stay relevant 😉

MrGeekman@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 05:46 next collapse

They didn’t switch to USB-C out of the goodness of their hearts. They switched because the EU passed a new law that requires that new smartphones have USB-C ports.

Chozo@kbin.social on 05 Oct 2023 05:55 next collapse

And they actively fought against it for as long as they could, tooth and nail.

MrSpArkle@lemmy.ca on 05 Oct 2023 06:16 next collapse

If they were really fighting it that hard they could’ve stalled till 2025 when the EU law actually takes effect.

Chozo@kbin.social on 05 Oct 2023 06:44 next collapse

Nah, the design specs for phones like this are done years in advance.

June@lemm.ee on 05 Oct 2023 14:38 collapse

So wait…. Are you suggesting they were already planing to switch before the EU law was passed?

M500@lemmy.ml on 05 Oct 2023 07:02 collapse

They could have, but I think they saw the demand and speculation of a usb-c phone. Maybe they realized that the bad image it would give them if they held out.

I’ve been waiting for a usb-c phone to upgrade. I’m at a point now that I really can’t wait any longer for a new phone. If they did not release a usb-c phone this year, I would have just bought the cheapest phone they offered.

elbarto777@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 07:36 collapse

Why keep giving money to Apple if you are already aware of their tactics?

Nahvi@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 08:53 next collapse

Same reason that people stick with Google.

After years in the eco-system it is obnoxious to swap, and the other main competitor isn’t any better of a company to deal with.

elbarto777@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 08:58 collapse

At least with Android I have options. Do I want USB-C? There’s a phone for that. Do I not want USB-C (for some weird reason)? There’s a phone for that.

Nahvi@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 13:37 collapse

Options are definitely nice for those technical enough to understand and use them.

Though personally I am keeping an eye on Linux devices for my next upgrade.

Do I not want USB-C (for some weird reason)?

This is probably temporary until it is time to move past USB-C. Which will be a slower and more difficult process now that there are laws in place requiring it.

gr522x@lemmy.ml on 05 Oct 2023 10:24 collapse

If the choice is paying unreasonable prices for Apple’s overpriced proprietary nonsense or reducing my yield as another data cow in Alphabet’s surveillance capitalism human farming machine, I begrudgingly pick the former.

I think it’s safe to assume all corporations publicly traded are equally greedy, regardless of how much their marketing department assures us that they exist for altruism.

Shareholders don’t by stock to make the world a better place, they invest in the companies sending the largest dividend checks. Apple and Alphabet are equally covetous of our money (money and data for Alphabet), but I trust the old business model of selling hardware more than giving up my data forever to be used for anything in the future.

GrapheneOS is my true preference currently for personal use and it feels good to leave a corporation in favor of a community, much like my switch from Reddit to Lemmy. As the techie in my family and friend group I’m still going to have to recommend iOS to most people since using GrapheneOS as a daily driver is a big ask for my grandmother.

elbarto777@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 11:56 collapse

I have to give graphene a try next year.

Pips@lemmy.film on 05 Oct 2023 14:47 collapse

If you’re a power user there’s a minor learning curve to prevent shit from breaking and some mild inconveniences like being unable to use NFC. Location can also just not work at times. Overall, I’m glad I made the switch.

dunestorm@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 07:39 collapse

It’s an uphill battle, why would Apple bother when just using USB-C makes sense and saves them their lawyers sanity?

docmox@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 08:07 next collapse

Money.

Now that USB-C is the required cable, people can go out and buy any cheap cable they want. The law turned a proprietary cash cow into a low return commodity item.

Redcedar@lemm.ee on 05 Oct 2023 14:19 collapse

This argument always cracks me up. I have been able to buy cheap lightning cables effectively since they started making lightning cables lol. It’s not like Apple somehow locks the phone from charging, physics is still a real thing and electricity can still flow through them, even without the MFi aspects.

If you wanna hate Apple for being a massively bloated and money-hungry corporate nightmare, that’s fine, I’m with it, but do we really all think they made it to $3 trillion valuation on… fucking cables??? 😂

jaybone@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 15:40 next collapse

Yeah but there has to be some reason they were so opposed to this. I don’t get it either though.

kirklennon@kbin.social on 05 Oct 2023 16:48 collapse

Yeah but there has to be some reason they were so opposed to this.

Because Lightning came out years before USB-C was ready and is already an established de facto standard. There are well over a billion devices in use right now with Lightning ports on them, and billions of Lightning cables. You're balancing the advantages of switching to a "standard" against the reality that their customers already have Lightning stuff. I went several years with my Switch as literally the only thing I owned that used USB-C. Even now it's still common for gadgets to ship with micro-USB. USB-C has taken a long time to reach real ubiquity.

Lightning is also physically smaller and easier to plug in than USB-C.

Anyway, the point is that USB-C was not (and is not) this significantly, obviously superior experience for Apple's existing customers. There are real, tangible downsides that make it more expensive and more environmentally wasteful for at least hundreds of millions of iPhone users who will be upgrading.

jaybone@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 21:30 collapse

Not sure why you are getting downvoted. That’s a pretty good answer.

TheBlue22@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 05 Oct 2023 15:42 collapse

No, they made it to 3 trillion with cables, overpriced PCs, overpriced notebooks, overpriced Phones, overpriced watches, and locking software of all these so the easiest way to use different devices together, is to use another apple product.

Oh, and cultivating a fan base of people who uncritically buy anything they make with the notion that it’s “better than anything else” when in reality that could not be further from the truth.

[deleted] on 06 Oct 2023 19:17 next collapse

Redcedar@lemm.ee on 06 Oct 2023 19:17 collapse

Ok, so you listed basically all of their business strategies, which is exactly my point. It’s not a business built SOLELY on proprietary ports and cables, yet that aspect is what gets the most attention and criticism.

TheBlue22@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 07 Oct 2023 05:34 collapse

I wouldn’t say that’s really accurate. It is true that it is the aspect that is getting the most attention now, but thats only because its recent, in the news and EU forced their hand upon it.

Apple among regular consumers has been criticised for years, if not decades for its overpriced hardware and among more technical crowd has always been criticised for its closed source and incompatible software.

Of course, people who say their entire empire is built upon a bunch of cables are wrong lol

Redcedar@lemm.ee on 07 Oct 2023 11:59 collapse

Correct! For me, the closed source “walled garden” approach is the most frustrating.

But, dude, dude, dude… remember the 30-pin transition debacle? I’m having bad flashbacks lol

TheBlue22@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 07 Oct 2023 12:46 collapse

I am not old enough to remember that I’m afraid. But I do still have some of those 30 pins phones and chargers

whitecapstromgard@sh.itjust.works on 05 Oct 2023 11:24 collapse

Apple wants to keep selling overpriced cables to losers.

circuitfarmer@lemmy.sdf.org on 05 Oct 2023 05:58 next collapse

Apple will never do anything for any other reasons besides: regulation and profit. They try and foster this image of humanitarianism and ethics, but meanwhile they build everything in sweatshops and make their own “standards” so that their loyal customers can only use the functions they need by purchasing additional dongles.

I’m happy that they were forced into an actual standard, but I’ve already heard at least two apple users IRL claiming that USB-C is inferior for [insert random reasoning here]. Apple has cultivated the idea that they are above standards for a long time and it will take a long time to break.

Pratai@lemmy.ca on 05 Oct 2023 06:45 next collapse

You mean, just like every company that exists?

mriormro@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 07:05 collapse

Apple is a corporation with a market cap that rivals the GDP of France and a net income that rivals the GDP of Qatar. That much capital consolidated within a singular private entity doesn’t just make them any other company. Their profit seeking is wildly, wildly different than a vast majority of any other company today.

Pratai@lemmy.ca on 05 Oct 2023 08:15 collapse

Get your head out of your ass. ALL companies will never do anything for any other reason besides profit. The size of said company doesn’t matter. A small company will fuck over its customers just as quickly if you let them.

franklin@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 11:17 next collapse

This is just the “both sides of the same” argument with different dressing.

It’s as false here as it is there. So you’re going to tell me a company like fairphone is as unethical as Apple or Samsung?

Yes of course they work with two completely different yields but that’s really the point The only way you can get to that yield is to be unethical so choose smaller brands choose ones that make decisions you agree with and help them grow.

There is no completely ethical capitalism but there definitely are choices that get us somewhere better.

June@lemm.ee on 05 Oct 2023 14:46 collapse

So you’re going to tell me a company like fairphone is as unethical as Apple or Samsung?

Absolutely. There is no ethical consumption under capitalism and even fair phone is profit driven. Even NPOs are profit driven. No one works for a loss in western society. No one. So literally every company will do everything it does for the sake of profitability. Even fairphone.

You have to realize that fairphone’s whole model is a marketing gimmick. Does it happen to align with some good values? Sure, but it’s still a gimmick to separate you from your money at the end of the day.

franklin@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 16:17 collapse

This is just false. Fairphone had audits that prove it’s an improvement in both sustainability and worker conditions.

Of course consumerism always negatively impacts the environment but to make it all equivalent is to forsake all nuance. It’s not at all to the same magnitude.

I don’t believe capitalism is the answer to the world’s problems but to not celebrate a positive initiative is throwing the baby out with bath water.

June@lemm.ee on 05 Oct 2023 17:46 collapse

Fairphone had audits that prove it’s an improvement in both sustainability and worker conditions.

key word there is ‘improvement’. it’s still a for profit company and they will ultimately make whatever decisions are in the best interest of the company to make a profit.

they are undoubtedly better, but their baseline is still the same, to make money.

there is no nuance, at all, to the fact that there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. it’s pretty black and white. there are ways to be less unethical (e.g., fairphone), but not to be ethical.

franklin@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 18:30 collapse

That’s just it though. One does more damage than the other unless you alone are single-handedly going to overthrow capitalism within the next week (which you know more power to you) this is still harm reduction and I’m happy for it.

Otherwise you just bitching about best case scenarios and living in a world that exists only in your head

June@lemm.ee on 05 Oct 2023 18:32 collapse

You’re discussing nuance for a company you like when what I being discussed I the baseline problematic nature of commerce.

Is fair phone a better alternative? Yes, and I’ve said as much.

Is it ultimately different from apple in its goal to be profitable? No.

Both things exist and that’s ok.

[deleted] on 05 Oct 2023 19:01 next collapse

franklin@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 19:05 collapse

I don’t know if your purposely misunderstanding me or if I’m not explaining myself well but give it one last time and then just agreed to disagree.

Fairphone a company I don’t even particularly like uses less rare metals, in factories that ensure better standards of living for the people who work there.

Is it everything I want? No. Does it make a measurable impact? Yes.

Therefore it is not the same. they may be a capitalist company and they could change their motto tomorrow of course any company can choose to do terrible things and may throughout the course of their company’s lifetime.

As of right now with the options we have they physically do less harm.

June@lemm.ee on 05 Oct 2023 21:22 collapse

We’re saying the same thing. I’m just emphasizing that they’re still capitalists who will make decisions based on profitability before social impact. It’s inherent because without profitability they can’t exist. Their stated mission (from a quick google) is to be profitable while making a positive impact.

They won’t abandon profitability for impact.

mriormro@lemmy.world on 23 Oct 2023 18:55 collapse

The size, profits, and overall global reach of a company heavily impacts how that company further impacts the world. Do you honestly think that, I don’t know, American Girl dolls have had the same negative impact on the world as the East India Company?

M500@lemmy.ml on 05 Oct 2023 07:04 next collapse

Apple fanboys are the most frustrating people to talk to.

They find any illogical reason to justify what apple does.

HeartyBeast@kbin.social on 05 Oct 2023 08:13 collapse

Go on. What does Apple do that is uniquely Apple that fanbois justify?

M500@lemmy.ml on 05 Oct 2023 11:26 collapse

You are my example. You see how defensive you got when I criticized apple?

HeartyBeast@kbin.social on 05 Oct 2023 11:31 next collapse

I asked for an example or two. If that’s your best example of frustrating irrationality-pfft. :)

M500@lemmy.ml on 05 Oct 2023 14:52 collapse

What about having the ability to sideload apps?

So many people are hard against that even though they are not being forced to use it.

HeartyBeast@kbin.social on 05 Oct 2023 15:57 collapse

I used to be a jailbreaker, so I'm not against sideloading apps. However, I can see how if its not properly designed, sideloading could make it easier to trick people into installing dodgy executables and malware on their phone. It's not just about that sweet 30% cut.

June@lemm.ee on 05 Oct 2023 14:40 collapse

Pot, meet kettle.

MrGeekman@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 19:37 next collapse

I know. That’s my point. A great example of this is when they used to brag about how eco-friendly their product were. I remember them bragging about their displays being mercury-free, BFR free, etc and their laptops having totally recyclable aluminum and glass enclosures - only to later deliberately make their laptops nearly impossible to repair and upgrade.

Kodemystic@lemmy.kodemystic.dev on 06 Oct 2023 17:52 collapse

The only reason they pass on an image of ethical environmentaly friendly company is because its good for business. People like that shit the products are good people buy. Its that simple. Companies give no shit about people or the planet.

tsonfeir@lemm.ee on 05 Oct 2023 06:00 collapse

I’m cracking a joke

MrGeekman@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 19:35 collapse

Ah.

Radicalized@lemmy.one on 05 Oct 2023 06:10 next collapse

I really really don’t think Apple needs to do much to stay relevant.

Pregnenolone@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 06:25 collapse

Ah yes, the second largest company in the world “trying to stay relevant”

who8mydamnoreos@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 07:29 next collapse

Im not really brand loyal to a gizmo company but the way android users are so insecure makes me never want to get them.

elbarto777@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 07:39 next collapse

Lol what made you conclude that OP uses Android?

who8mydamnoreos@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 07:42 collapse

I never mentioned OP

elbarto777@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 07:46 collapse

Then why gratuitously bash android for some weird user-related reason?

who8mydamnoreos@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 07:51 collapse

Im not bashing android i have to use one of their devices for work; it’s ok. The users on social media with the vitriol for apple and their need to defend android is really cringe.

elbarto777@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 07:56 next collapse

I hear ya. To be honest, I don’t really engage in such types of discussions - in terms of phones, gaming, browsers, hell, even movies!

Those kind of vitriolic discussions are led by a minority group who has nothing else to do in life but post stupid comments on the internet.

I could say the same about apple users. But then I go to the real world and notice that the vast majority of people couldn’t care less about such dick- (or pussy-) measuring shenanigans.

who8mydamnoreos@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 07:58 collapse

To be honest the only company I see apple users bitch about is apple.

elbarto777@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 08:25 collapse

Which makes me ask the same question I asked in another comment: if you’re going to bitch about Apple, then why keep buying Apple?

Maybe those Android users were former Apple users, then. (I say this half-jokingly, but I’m still curious about the question.)

who8mydamnoreos@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 08:30 collapse

Because people like to complain. Plenty to complain about android as well neither are perfect.

elbarto777@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 08:40 collapse

Absolutely, so going back to the original discussion, if “people are going to complain anyway,” then people bashing Apple shouldn’t be a reason not to consider Android.

who8mydamnoreos@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 08:44 collapse

Its not valid complaining, its vitriol towards other human beings for being “fan boys” or whatever, and how stupid they are for not picking their gizmo company.

elbarto777@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 08:56 collapse

Which we already established, it’s a very stupid, very loud minority. Just like Apple users. If you haven’t seen any Apple users bashing Android, then you’re one lucky user.

ink@r.nf on 05 Oct 2023 16:07 collapse

Someone who barges in a discussion getting triggered when someone said something bad about his beloved company, says he’s not. lmao

Honytawk@lemmy.zip on 05 Oct 2023 09:31 next collapse

What is your argument for calling 70% of all phone users insecure?

who8mydamnoreos@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 13:25 collapse

Like this response is a good example of the insecurity im talking about thanks

June@lemm.ee on 05 Oct 2023 14:48 next collapse

This is hilarious because there’s a comment just above yours that’s exactly the same, just turned on its head.

I said it to the android guy and I’m gonna say it to you: pot, meet kettle.

who8mydamnoreos@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 15:04 collapse

You have truly defended your gizmo company sir, a true white knight of fair google. Not cringe at all

June@lemm.ee on 05 Oct 2023 15:06 collapse

Lmao, I’m an apple user, all in on the ecosystem from phone to smarthome.

Good try though.

RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz on 06 Oct 2023 09:17 collapse

How is that a good example of insecurity of any kind?

ink@r.nf on 05 Oct 2023 16:00 collapse

I see the exact opposite, and you being triggered when no one even mentioned anything you’re so offended about, proves the point.

It’s totally not your insecurity talking, at all… but do go on…

MBM@lemmings.world on 05 Oct 2023 09:48 next collapse

* In terms of profit, after the Saudi Arabian Oil Group. Huh, I had no idea.

whofearsthenight@lemm.ee on 05 Oct 2023 17:19 collapse

Of all of the things that I vastly prefer since moving to Lemmy from reddit, anything related to Apple is not one of them. I’m actually surprised because talking about anything Apple on reddit was always a circlejerk pitchfork parade, but Lemmy still seems to outdo. The “trying to stay relevant comment” is honestly hilarious. Sure, the richest company with more than 50% of the smartphone market, that basically feeds design to the rest of the industry is trying to stay relevant.

And another thing worth addressing, It’s probably 50/50 whether the EU is forcing them to USB-C, or just providing cover for them to move to USB-C. Modern Apple (after 1997) rarely has used proprietary standards for cables/connectors, and when they have it’s pretty obviously because there isn’t a better option, or more likely, there isn’t an option that is suited to their purpose*. Apple is/was largely the reason we’re even talking about USB, being one of the first to really adopt it. Then the dock connector for iPods, which is probably the most major example of them using a proprietary connector. If you read that link (just wiki) you’ll see that the dock connector did things that no other standard connector did at the time, and it did it in a form factor that would work with iPods. Fast forward 10 years and Apple eats shit in the press for changing to Lightning, which pre-dated USB-C and has obvious advantages over one of the worst computer connectors in modern history - micro-USB**. Apple contributed significantly to the USB-C spec, which includes many of the advantages that Lightning had first, built off of the work they did with Intel in creating another standard, Thunderbolt.

And then on to today, where Apple is “forced” to use USB-C. Again, in 2016, Apple moved all of their high end laptops to exclusively USB-C, for which they would again be pilloried. People are still pissed those laptops dropped USB-A and MagSafe in favor of trying to drive adoption of USB-C and a one-connector-rules-them-all world. They also moved their Pro iPads over to C in 2018. Basically, Apple started moving its high-end, less price conscious customers to C long before legislation was a gleam in anyone’s eye. Their cheaper products (base model iPads) and mass-consumer products (iPhones) they moved much slower on, and even then there were a slate of “Apple keeps changing connectors all of the time!” (twice in 20 years) outrage-bait articles.

Yes, Apple was “forced” to use the connector they created the first design references for (Lightning/Thunderbolt, and to a lesser extend Mini-DisplayPort) and then helped design, then moved to before most, in a bid to stay “relevant” in a field they already dominate.

* Also worth noting that Apple was a main driver of adoption of USB-A, and took heat when they converted iMacs to it over PS/2, far before most PC vendors did.

** This alone, the amount of negative press they garnered, meant that there was likely no way Apple was going to move iPhones off of Lightning for 10 years.

Countmacula@lemm.ee on 05 Oct 2023 05:37 next collapse

Is ddg any good?

I feel like Bing would just be better at this point.

avater@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 05:37 next collapse

yep it is quite good

PHLAK@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 05:39 next collapse

DDG is great, highly recommended. It reminds me of what Google used to be.

Countmacula@lemm.ee on 05 Oct 2023 05:41 next collapse

I honestly might have to look into it then. Google is still pretty decent got me but I’m just finding myself either using Reddit to find an answer or asking chat gpt (purely excel related questions)

HeartyBeast@kbin.social on 05 Oct 2023 08:09 collapse

I’ve had DDG as my default search engine on my iPhone ever since AMP pages became annoying. I have to use Google about once a month. Otherwise DDG is pretty good.

askdocsthrowaway96@lemm.ee on 05 Oct 2023 07:01 collapse

It’s garbage outside of the US for local results. Bing is somewhat better, but still not good enough. In the US though, plenty of good alternatives to Google search

lemmyvore@feddit.nl on 05 Oct 2023 07:34 next collapse

I’m outside the US and I’ve been using DDG exclusively on every device for about 5 years now. It’s excellent.

HeartyBeast@kbin.social on 05 Oct 2023 08:09 next collapse

No problems in the UK

Honytawk@lemmy.zip on 05 Oct 2023 09:34 next collapse

DDG is only garbage for not personalised search results.

Which is kind of the point in a privacy driven search engine.

DDG literally has a search filter to search only websites belonging to a certain country.

Sincerely, a Belgian DDG user who has been using it exclusively for the last 6 years.

Companion1666@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 10:32 collapse

I’m outside US (Philippines), most searches are local as long as your country is set on DDG settings. I’ve been using DDG since 2021 and it’s refreshing that I actually searching with my actual query, instead of “click the first, random result” and call it a day.

Madeyro@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 05 Oct 2023 05:40 next collapse

It does show you more relevant results based on your query, withou doing any guessing about what you might have meant by it. That being said, sometimes I use Google to search for something when DDG is giving me bad results. But overall I would recommend, it’s muxh more better experience with the results I am seeing. I have tried Bing for a while as well, but it was thinking too much instead of just showing me the results.

discodoubloon@kbin.social on 05 Oct 2023 06:28 next collapse

I find that when I’m looking for very specific things Google is still king but DDG is much better for broad strokes.

Aqarius@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 08:12 collapse

I’d say the opposite: ddg can get me what I want, if I know exactly what I want. If I’m just vaguely guessing, ddg us as good as my guess, while Google tries to guess with me and it works out sometimes.

Honytawk@lemmy.zip on 05 Oct 2023 09:38 collapse

The only reason I had to use Google was to search by image. Which is a feature DDG doesn’t have sadly.

For specific search, I found perplexity.ai to be much better and faster, it uses AI to scan the websites and give summaries as to why they are relevant to your query.

wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 05:53 next collapse

I just switched from ddg (after years of using it across all my devices) to kagi, but ddg is good. The results can be iffy at times, especially on unusual or niche queries, but their bang system lets you forward the query to other engines to see if they have the result you are looking for. In my household where I control and direct the tech, ddg has been the standard for many years for all our devices. I recommend it to everyone who is still using a big-name search engine.

JasSmith@kbin.social on 05 Oct 2023 06:52 collapse

Kagi is fucking amazing.

amanneedsamaid@sopuli.xyz on 05 Oct 2023 05:57 next collapse

Ddg results are pretty horrible in my experience. Statpage (google results) and brave search both have better results.

stardust@lemmy.ca on 05 Oct 2023 06:14 next collapse

Yeah, brave search is what I use for my main searches, but ddg bangs do come in useful. Brave has it too.

amanneedsamaid@sopuli.xyz on 05 Oct 2023 13:26 collapse

Bangs are essential, especially if you use DDG HTML, which doesnt have tabs for different kinds of searches

bobbytables@feddit.de on 05 Oct 2023 06:39 next collapse

Shout out to startpage! I use it almost exclusively and it is great.

TrustingZebra@lemmy.one on 05 Oct 2023 11:02 collapse

Brave Search is awful for non-English results. Startpage is decent but only because it’s basically Google results.

amanneedsamaid@sopuli.xyz on 05 Oct 2023 13:36 collapse

I can’t speak to non-English results, and I agree Startpage is just a Google proxy.

circuitfarmer@lemmy.sdf.org on 05 Oct 2023 05:59 next collapse

After 2 years of exclusive use: yes. It’s just as good if not better. Google is filled with ads and Bing just sucks.

snowe@programming.dev on 05 Oct 2023 07:31 collapse

DDG is bing.

ripcord@kbin.social on 05 Oct 2023 08:07 next collapse

Bing does potentially have slightly worse results, what with the "personalized" (tracking-based, ad/promoted) results. But yeah.

Honytawk@lemmy.zip on 05 Oct 2023 09:39 collapse

*modified bing

ossadeimorti@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 06:05 next collapse

I’ve used it for a few months, and in the end I was always using !g

It’s just not good enough in a lot of contexts. I’m having a much better time with kagi

GigglyBobble@kbin.social on 05 Oct 2023 06:20 next collapse

I have been using it exclusively for years. Does its job most of the time and when it doesn't and I include Google results (via bang !g) Google doesn't really find it either.

However, I've opted out of most Google services in parallel, so their model of me probably isn't the best anymore. If in their bubble, their results may still be better (creeps me out though, so I live with non-perfect search).

Veraxus@kbin.social on 05 Oct 2023 06:29 next collapse

It’s okay. If you want something genuinely as good as Google, if not better, Kagi is what you want.

nucleative@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 06:30 next collapse

Upvote this question, it’s pretty relevant to the issue of whether this would have been good for Apple (no, it would not have been)

DDG is my default search on mobile, but half the time I end up back on Google. Google is better at guessing exactly what I want and giving that content fast, such as the weather, people always ask answers, or quick facts about things that saves me from loading the site underneath the result.

But sometimes I know exactly what I want and Google won’t give it to me - because it decided I want something else.

That’s where a well built query can work better on DDG. However… DDG is more susceptible to backlink spamming and old school SEO techniques to rank content near the top. So depending on the people behind the search results, some queries are fine and some can still be garbage.

Also for image and video search Google is top.

clegko@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 17:27 collapse

Strong disagree on Google having a better video/image search. Bing is top there, then Google, then DDG, imo.

ripcord@kbin.social on 05 Oct 2023 08:05 collapse

Ddg is Bing with less tracking. I mean, literally it is Bing.

nix@merv.news on 05 Oct 2023 06:53 next collapse

Surprised they dont buy kagi tbh

Melonpoly@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 06:59 next collapse

Thank fuck they didn’t

askdocsthrowaway96@lemm.ee on 05 Oct 2023 07:02 collapse

What’s a kagi

nix@merv.news on 05 Oct 2023 07:29 collapse

It’s a search engine with better results than google kagi.com

Patariki@feddit.nl on 05 Oct 2023 10:04 next collapse

But it’s not free. Pretty important point for a lot of people.

grayman@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 17:41 collapse

Yeah funny no one is mentioning the cost. It’s wildly expensive.

promodel@kbin.social on 06 Oct 2023 19:31 collapse

What would you say a good price is ?

grayman@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 2023 23:05 collapse

The lowest tier should be about $20/yr. I’d pay that. The family unlimited $60/yr. I’d pay that for my wife and kids to have it too.

askdocsthrowaway96@lemm.ee on 05 Oct 2023 19:43 collapse

How’s it better than Google? Google is the king of data, idk how this competes with that

darth_helmet@sh.itjust.works on 05 Oct 2023 21:31 collapse

Google monetizes the search experience. It’s gotten steadily worse at its primary function for the last 15 years. Eventually, a better search engine will exist, it just takes time for Google to enshittify theirs enough.

askdocsthrowaway96@lemm.ee on 06 Oct 2023 01:57 collapse

Meh, I use adblocker and ghostery. The impact on my results is minimal if anything

darth_helmet@sh.itjust.works on 06 Oct 2023 02:51 collapse

Zimmy@lemm.ee on 05 Oct 2023 07:05 next collapse

Surprised to see so many plugging kagi in this thread. A subscription to search the internet seems crazy to me. Is it that good?

glad_cat@lemmy.sdf.org on 05 Oct 2023 07:19 next collapse

I wouldn’t recommend it to everyone because it’s really expensive, but for me it’s great, and I save at least one hour a day at work since I don’t waste my time filtering the results from DDG or Google.

It’s subjective of course but I’m happy about it so far.

darreninthenet@sh.itjust.works on 05 Oct 2023 07:24 next collapse

This article is a pretty good summary of why, by Google’s own words, an ad driven search experience will be rubbish:

pluralistic.net/2023/10/03/not-feeling-lucky/#fun…

Not only does Kagi produce great search results, as good as “old Google” IMO, its business model means the above cannot (or at least, shouldn’t) happen. If it ever changed its model to include ads etc it would collapse so fast.

So for me, unlike the other poster, I’d recommend it to everyone who’s finding the existing search engines are rubbish and full of useless Etsy and SEO etc links.

loki@lemmy.ml on 05 Oct 2023 16:50 next collapse

I can’t find any information about their search engine crawler. Isn’t it standard for search engines to label their crawlers or something?

darth_helmet@sh.itjust.works on 05 Oct 2023 21:28 next collapse

It’s conventional to do this, but a user agent string is entirely up to the client, and robots.txt is just a suggestion.

So for the best results, you probably want to mock Google’s crawler because it’s suicidal to block that if you want search traffic.

Atemu@lemmy.ml on 25 Nov 2023 20:27 collapse

help.kagi.com/kagi/…/search-sources.html

ciaocibai@lemmy.nz on 05 Oct 2023 19:21 next collapse

Pinterest links are the worst. I just don’t want that shit and images of random crap isn’t what I’m after.

Majestic@lemmy.ml on 05 Oct 2023 20:07 collapse

Brave words divorced from reality.

Cable companies wouldn’t insert ads, people pay for a premium experience with cable instead of getting their TV free over the air. If they did people would just cancel and watch free tv.

Then later: Streaming companies wouldn’t insert ads, the ability to watch on your time, terms and without interruption is part of the appeal, if they did their customers would leave them and they’d collapse. It would be the death of any company foolish enough to do so.

🤡

Markets and competition will save us cried the fool with no knowledge of history.

If they grow they need to keep growing, if their results are good enough they’ll introduce “limited” tracking for “trusted partners” with limited ads that are “valuable and relevant”. And from there it can spiral more but you’ve already lost.

As revenue, tracking, taking a big yearly check from Zuck or whoever to share your data with them. It’s a good source of revenue and unless this company is privately financed by one weirdo entirely out of their own pockets they have a responsibility to investors to get them ever increasing year over year returns.

Of course the typical thing to do is to get big enough first like streaming. Train the fool consumers to pay for something they’re getting for free, normalize that, grow, then sock them with ads, tracking, inconveniences and train them to accept more and more of it.

bort@feddit.de on 05 Oct 2023 21:04 next collapse

Brave words divorced from reality. 🤡

How would you estimate the likelyhood of kagi going the way you describe?

darreninthenet@sh.itjust.works on 05 Oct 2023 21:25 collapse

I mean I guess it could happen… so I guess why trust anyone? May as well just switch it all off!

snowe@programming.dev on 05 Oct 2023 07:29 next collapse

I tried the trial for two days before I bought in and completely gave up google. Kagi is absolutely amazing and well worth the money, not just because there’s no ads or selling of your data, but because the search results are miles better than any alternative now. I have over 50k searches in my google history and at one point in my career I would average around a hundred searches a day. I know what I need from a search engine and Kagi absolutely gives it to me.

ripcord@kbin.social on 05 Oct 2023 08:03 collapse

Yeah, I scoffed at the idea of paying. And paying $10/mo. Then I used it. And I keep using it. A lot. And now0 looks like I'm going to be paying for it for a while.

lloram239@feddit.de on 05 Oct 2023 07:49 next collapse

My experience doesn’t go past the free trial, but yes, it is very good. It’s basically Google-level search quality, but without the removal of features and dropping quality that Google itself experiences in the last few years.

That said, it’s still just a regular old search engine. If you used Google 10 years ago, you have a pretty good idea what this feels like. It doesn’t really do anything new or revolutionary. It’s not a “wow, this is amazing” experience, it’s just a “well, this actually works” kind of thing.

Not something I’d pay $10/month for, but if you want to move away from Google without it feeling like a downgrade, it’s currently the only real alternative. Bing, DDG (which is just Bing with window dressing), Yandex, BraveSearch are all still quite a bit worse than Google and even Google itself is nowhere near as good as it once was.

tun@lemm.ee on 05 Oct 2023 10:17 collapse

Recently I get good result with Ecosia.

SkyeStarfall@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 05 Oct 2023 09:13 next collapse

Paying for a service ensures your incentives (mostly) align. Kagi’s incentive is to make a good search that makes you want to pay for it, google’s incentives are to gather your data to either sell or use themselves, and show you as many ads as possible.

JasSmith@sh.itjust.works on 05 Oct 2023 09:41 next collapse

It’s like Google back in 2010. You find stuff you are looking for without pages and pages of ads, spam, and clickbait.

If you hit a domain which is obviously spam, you can block it forever. If you find a domain you really like, you can promote it for future results.

It’s clear that Google’s motivation is no longer to offer good results. It’s to maximise the time you’re on the site, and the number of ads and spam sites you click. Their goal is now, literally, to feed you bad results.

wolo@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 05 Oct 2023 19:47 collapse

Every good result they serve you could have been an ad, so they’re incentivised to replace as many with ads as possible.

liam_galt@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 05 Oct 2023 13:03 next collapse

I thought it sounded pretty silly, too. I gave the free trial a shot and for technical searches it was the best I had seen by far. Being able to lower certain sites and raise other sites makes it much easier to filter through shitty results like blog posts and stuff. I pay for it now and it’s worth it to me just for the time savings on technical searches. It definitely is still pretty far behind for things like local business info and stuff, but as a general purpose search engine it’s been extremely good for me.

aidan@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 13:51 collapse

Or the most annoying thing, trying to research a topic with one word matching that of a recent news event. So you only ever see news sites.

[deleted] on 05 Oct 2023 13:42 next collapse

Paradox@lemdro.id on 06 Oct 2023 04:09 collapse

Yeah, it’s very good. Not having results full of shit like geeksforgeeks or Pinterest is nice, but possible with browser extensions. Being able to influence the rank of different sites, to either bubble up or down in your results is one of the secret killer features

Da_Boom@iusearchlinux.fyi on 05 Oct 2023 07:23 next collapse

I mean, it makes sense, DDG already use apple maps for their maps platform.

Smokeydope@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 08:23 next collapse

This is a copy/pasted message I wrote up on another thread. As long as there are people in the comments shilling kagi, I will shill my prefered engines. At least my suggestions will bring awareness to free as in freedom projects. I hope to god people paying 10$/month just to not get datacucked by search engines will also learn something and save their money.

SearX/SearXNG is a free and open source, highly customizable, and self-hostable meta search engine. SearX instances act as a middle man, they query other search engines for you, stripping all their spyware ad crap and never having your connection touch their servers. Of course you have to trust the SearX instance host with your query information, but again if you are that paranoid just self host.

I personally trust some foss loving sysadmin that host social services for free out of alturism, who also accepts hosting donations, whos server is located on the other side of the planet, with my query info over Google/Alphabet any day.

Its nice to be able to email and have a human conversation with your search engine provider thats just a knowlegable every day joe who genuinely believes in the project and freely dedicates their resources to it. Consider sending some cash their way to help with upkeep if you like the services they provide, they will probably appreciate and make use of that 10$ better than kagi.

Heres a list of all public searx instances, I personally prefer to use paulgo.io All SearX instances are configured different to index different engines. If one doesn’t seem to give good results try a few others.

Did I mention it has bangs like duckduckgo? If you really need google like for maps and buisness info just use !!g in the query

search.marginalia.nu is a completely novel search engine written and hosted by one dude that aims to prioritize indexing lighter websites little to no javascript as these tend to be personal websites and homepages that have poor SEO and the big search engines won’t index well. If you remember the internet of the early 2000s and want a nostalgia trip this ones for you. Its also open source and self-hostable

Finally, YaCy is another completely novel search engine that uses peer-to-peer technology to power a big webcrawler which prioritizes indexes based off user queries and feedback. Everyone can download yacy and devote a bit of their computing power to both run their own local instance and help out a collective search engine. Companies can also download yacy and use it to index their private intranets.

They have a public instance available through a web portal. To be upfront, YaCy is not a great search engine for what most people usually want, which is quick and relevant information within the first few clicks. But, it is an interesting use of technology and what a true honest-to-god community-operated search engine looks like untainted by SEO scores or corporate money-making shenanigans.

I hope this has been informative to those who believe theres only a few options to pick from, I know these options are so unknown to most people.

yoz@aussie.zone on 05 Oct 2023 08:25 next collapse

Thanks Yacy looks promising

Smokeydope@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 08:27 collapse

You’re welcome updated the comment with proper links

TwoGems@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 08:29 next collapse

Thank you! So I can use Google but stop it from doing the CAPCHA shit repeatedly because it detects my VPN? It’s abuse of the user and I’m tired of it.

Smokeydope@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 08:31 next collapse

Yup! Enjoy :)

ShittyRedditWasBetter@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 09:46 next collapse

Abuse of the user 🤣

Daft_ish@lemmy.world on 07 Oct 2023 01:22 collapse

Have you seen users privacy settings? They want their data to be harvested. Now come here and let me give you some sponsored content.

dependencyInjection@sh.itjust.works on 05 Oct 2023 10:59 next collapse

I rage quit Google search the other day over that damn captcha

TwoGems@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 13:27 collapse

I’m trying Startpage until I get those alternatives down

HughJanus@lemmy.ml on 05 Oct 2023 20:55 collapse

I’m sure that’s what Google wants. You can either give them your data or you can go somewhere else, but hopefully you choose to give them your data because they make it too inconvenient not to.

sebinspace@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 08:38 next collapse

datacucked

uuuuusing it

catapult7724@lemmy.sdfeu.org on 05 Oct 2023 08:41 next collapse

Thank you! I’m intrigued by Kagi but it’s a lot of money. I’ve tried SearXNG before it wasn’t great for me, I’ll try it again.

Smokeydope@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 08:53 collapse

I hope you find more success with it this time. Like I said not all SearXNG instances are equal paulgo.io was the first to really click with me and give useful results. Some SearXNG instances won’t query google or most other engines making their usefulness rather limited. Also the more popular an instance becomes the more likely it will be rate-limited by search engines which isn’t the fault of the instance but can be an occasional annoyance for sure. Not perfect solution by any means but I think SearX would be a great fit for lots of people here who just want google results without all the spyware ad bs

Nice choice of lemmy instance, btw. Pubnixes like SDF rule!

HeavyRaptor@lemmy.zip on 05 Oct 2023 19:39 next collapse

I’m trying this instance out at the moment and it feels great! Do you know how to get the autocomplete to work on Firefox android? I’m looking for search suggestion API url but can’t seem to find it.

Thetimefarm@lemm.ee on 06 Oct 2023 16:41 collapse

Genuine question, what happens to SearX if google pulls the plug on API access or changes the algorithm in a way that makes it worse?

If Kagi got an actual code audit done I would be a lot more on board with it. The audit they do show appears to just be penetration testing, not focused on the code itself but I don’t know much about so maybe there is more to it that I don’t understand.

I wish it were easier for developers to monetize their projects while leaving them open source. Tutanota is a good example of open source code used in a paid service. With tutanota however it seems like what you pay for is the service, not the software.

Smokeydope@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 2023 17:18 collapse

I am not the most knowledgeable person on searxng innerworkings so may be wrong, but searxng instances usually use the ‘get’ and ‘post’ commands to request+fetch http/https content not an API key. You can get your own api keys/tokens from google and plug them in to searx in the preferences menu if they ever make it API only. There’s a lot of IT academic research that relies on google they will most likely never pull API access fullstop but you never you I guess.

There is not much if anything SearXNG instances can do if google changes algorithm. In worst case scenario it can still index other search engines which themselves scrape google like startpage or engines completely independent like duckduckgo, bing, brave, YaCy, ect. Here is a list of all configured engines SearXNG uses by default you can go into preferences at top right of searXNG to configure what engines you want to use among other things.

Thetimefarm@lemm.ee on 06 Oct 2023 20:24 collapse

It just worries me that there isn’t really a google competitor if all the alternatives rely on google not screwing up a product. It seems like honest search results are becoming less of a thing they care about.

2xsaiko@discuss.tchncs.de on 05 Oct 2023 10:07 next collapse

I use Kagi right now but search.marginalia.nu and YaCy seem really cool. Hell, I might package YaCy and write a module for it for NixOS :^)

clearedtoland@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 13:07 collapse

I’m trying Kagi now but I’m having mixed feelings. Search results are mixed at best for some pretty commonplace topics (e.g. Starfield quests or breaking news).

Also, the search limit (for the trial and basic plans) stresses me and I find myself second guessing whether I really need to search for something. I like it but I haven’t come across a “wow!” moment that makes me want to abandon DDG, despite the transparency and privacy-focus.

sir_reginald@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 2023 08:28 collapse

what transparency and “privacy focus” are you talking about?

They haven’t released a single line of code and they required you to be logged in, which makes you uniquely identifiable, and if you paid using credit card, then you gave away your personal identifiable information.

ChucklesMcGee@infosec.pub on 05 Oct 2023 13:34 next collapse

thank you, great post

doktorseven@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 14:55 next collapse

When you need a scalable service for tons of users, federated isn’t going to cut it. This is why Apple wants DDG. Point the bajillion crApple lusers at one of your public instances (or even all of them chosen at random each time) and watch it crash and burn overnight. DDG has tons of servers and the infrastructure to hold up while a ton of people search why their luxury device is slowing down every time Apple releases a new one.

dm_me_your_feet@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 21:46 collapse

Lol Federation is the definition of scalable. Everyone serves their local users -> a miniscule amount of global traffic, everything but auth always stays local.

Universities have been doing it since the beginning of the internet. Email is the biggest example but there are others: eduGAIN and eduroam are the most notable ones coming out of the academic community.

doktorseven@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 2023 03:27 collapse

You are confusing a network of distinct servers with a single point of entry that a search engine would need to be. There is no fallback or distribution of search when everything is directed to a single search point, and pointing people to different search sites per search will remove any per-site preferences.

Do people think about what they say any more, or do they see someone who is trying to carefully explain their problem and just go into pure rage and try to disprove them by spewing things that do not make any sense?

dm_me_your_feet@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 2023 07:45 collapse

No search engine has a “single point of entry”. Every search engine has Cache servers all over the world at almost every major IXP. Nothing would prevent a federated service from operating the same way. Cloudflare or literally any form of loadbalancer or load balancing service could be used to redirect queries to fedisearch (or whatever the service name would be) to the local instance by IP geolocation. Authentication can just be forwarded to the home server via SAML, thats also where the settings can be stored and queried at login time by the local instance. SAML assertions are very scalable, and there needs to be no global login server, since every users login query can be forwarded to his home instance, where his profile is loaded. The full search index could be put into a blockchain that every local instance joins - every instance crawls their area and publishes new results to the chain. You seem to know very little about how the internet works, yet you accuse me of raging.

That the foss community can manage things like that has been proven for years. Debian mirror server network works in a similar way (they run their own loadbalancer ofc), while being cryptographically secure. And if you wanna see a federated login network like i described in action, just go to pubs.acs.org/action/ssostart

All these parts i described are existing technology and in global use. The combination is not, but there is nothing that would prevent a foundation from implementing search like this.

LucidNightmare@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 15:20 next collapse

Saved. Thank you for your time and thoroughness!

Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg on 05 Oct 2023 16:07 next collapse

I don’t mind you suggesting these, they’re cool projects, but the “coMmEnTs sHiLLinG kAgI” and “mAke UsE of tHat 10$ beTteR thAn KaGi” stuff is so unnecessary. I mean just… why?

Smokeydope@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 16:35 collapse

I have a bad habit of mixing personal bias into things when I get into a passionate writing fit and it sometimes comes off as pretentious dickery. I never set out to attack kagi users themselves even if I can now see now it did come across and those comments were unneeded. I was being a pretentious jerk with those comments and apologize to all you kagi users for my assholery.

I do think its a waste to spend money on a search engine, and that open source software instance maintainers could probably make use that $ better than another search engine startup. I am being honest with those personal opinions. But its not my place to judge those who decide they are in a well enough financial spot to pay $ for a service that adds precieved value to their life or where they decide to pay it to.

Its fustrating as a FOSS nerd to see so many people shill yet another subscription based service feeding money into another souless company that makes promises of protecting your data and not selling it to ad companies now but has no gaurentee of holding those promises over time. That’s how the subscription services get you once they have you, slowly changing promises and creeping in their money making bs but slowly enough to not be too jarring. Maybe I’m just disillusioned with things after being burned so many times. Best of luck to you though I hope it continues to be a valuable service to those willing to pay for it.

LesserAbe@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 16:59 next collapse

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I’m not a kagi user, but I’ll put in a word for paying for services: a search engine requires time, equipment and hosting to run. Sure some kind people may be willing to run it free. But search in my opinion is an essential service. If it’s not working, I want there to be someone responsible, and (in the kindest sense) obliged to get it working.

Going further, if there are new developments in the tech or new features to be implemented, I want there to be an incentive for the operator to implement them.

I don’t turn to a hobbyist to give me eyeglasses or fix my car. Similarly I don’t turn to an advertiser. In some cases I fix my car myself, but when something is too complex or time intensive for me to handle I’m going to pay to ensure I have that essential good or service.

pearsche@lemdro.id on 06 Oct 2023 03:59 collapse

I do think its a waste to spend money on a search engine

I honestly believe that it’s good to pay for services if you find them good. FOSS does need the money but unless you want to wait for the long term, it’s not viable as a user.

Its fustrating as a FOSS nerd to see so many people shill yet another subscription based service …

I’m quite interested in FOSS stuff but I get disappointed by so much FOSS stuff I now just use whatever feels the best to me

AllegedlyInsane@lemmy.ml on 05 Oct 2023 17:17 next collapse

Would also recommend whoogle. They have done public ones iirc but also hand a self hosted option (that I use behind a VPN) for those that line self hosted shit

Moderator@sh.itjust.works on 05 Oct 2023 17:49 next collapse

My issue with SearXNG is that I cannot natively use it on mobile (iOS). Might be a small issue for most but I need to be able to type into my browser’s search bar and it utilize that search engine. Open browser > navigate to search homepage > enter query is a lot slower, especially if I am out and about and need information quickly.

If there is some way to configure this I’d love to hear about it, but Safari on iOS limits you to a handful of search engines. I use DDG today.

AProfessional@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 21:44 next collapse

xSearch on the AppStore lets you use any search engine with Safari.

Smokeydope@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 2023 00:59 next collapse

I did a quick search and found instructions to what I think you are asking for hopefully this helps. The query string for paulgo.io is “paulgo.io/search?q=”

I have also heard Xsearch works

neonspool@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 2023 01:19 collapse

searchengine.party also has the query string links for a multitude of different search engines, as well as a comparison of security tests and privacy policies and other functions

Smokeydope@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 2023 18:10 collapse

Hey just to update I heard XSearch works if that other thing didn’t work out

pearsche@lemdro.id on 06 Oct 2023 03:57 next collapse

i have tried these alternate search engines and I have to always come back to google. A friend I trust a lot swears that kagi is the best search engine, and so do other people I know, so it must have some merit.

sir_reginald@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 2023 08:21 next collapse

I don’t know what the fuck is going on with Kagi on Lemmy. They must be using bots or paying people for promoting them. I just don’t get how people can trust them so much when they haven’t released the code for anything, they require you to be logged in which makes the user uniquely identifiable and therefore could easily correlate your searches to your identity (even if they claim not to, it’s just a “trust me, bro”)

Amir@lemmy.ml on 06 Oct 2023 09:37 next collapse

Yeah it’s ridiculous, seems like there’s a shill army of this proprietary service here.

ryannathans@aussie.zone on 06 Oct 2023 09:43 collapse

What is a kagi

Deebster@programming.dev on 21 Oct 2023 02:34 collapse

shilling kagi

Shilling means that you’re claiming people (like me) who’ve been recommending Kagi are in fact secretly paid to do covert advertising.

Are you using that word wrong, or do you actually believe that we’re all liars?

Nihilore@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 08:59 next collapse

I tried to switch to DDG as my default search on iOS but my adblocker doesn’t block ads on it but it does on google, so I switched back

[deleted] on 05 Oct 2023 09:23 next collapse

madis@lemm.ee on 05 Oct 2023 09:24 next collapse

DDG has a built-in option to determine whether you want to see ads or not.

NiaTheCat@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 05 Oct 2023 11:59 next collapse

You can turn off ads directly in DDG settings <img alt="" src="https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/pictrs/image/7d14e907-92be-4e91-b79a-ada05218e264.png">

June@lemm.ee on 05 Oct 2023 14:52 collapse

I tried to switch but the results were terrible. I ended up on bing which is still inferior to google but better than being google even if it is another behemoth data gathering company. At this point im just trying to stop centralizing who gets all my data don’t lest it’s a bit fragmented.

slypanda@lemm.ee on 05 Oct 2023 15:13 collapse

ddg gets its results from bing, I’d recommend startpage if you want google results while being privacy respecting.

clegko@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 17:24 collapse

DDG doesn’t solely use Bing, though. From what I understand, it uses Bing + it’s own crawler and algorithm so its results are almost always different than vanilla Bing.

someguy3@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 16:04 next collapse

I’ve been trying to use DDG but honestly it sucks. I can’t imagine Apple switching to it, it would just make things worse for users, who commonly can’t figure out how to switch defaults. I think it’s just a negotiating point.

Misconduct@startrek.website on 05 Oct 2023 16:18 next collapse

I primarily use it. What sucks about it? It isn’t as flashy without those little quick answers that Google throws together, but those are garbage a lot of the time anyway imo. Otherwise, I don’t really have any issues finding what I need that I can think of

SnowdenHeroOfOurTime@unilem.org on 05 Oct 2023 16:23 next collapse

I have been trying to use it for years but it just literally has a lot of issues with pretty normal search queries that worked perfectly on Google 15 years ago.

I want it to be good. But it’s not.

DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe on 05 Oct 2023 16:37 collapse

I mean, Google has problems with the results they would have given 15 years ago, that’s why people are switching.

SnowdenHeroOfOurTime@unilem.org on 05 Oct 2023 17:18 collapse

I’m aware Google has gotten worse. DDG is much worse imo but still use it daily hoping it will improve because fuck Google

Tschuuuls@feddit.de on 05 Oct 2023 17:05 next collapse

Only thing I miss is Google shopping sometimes. That actually is really useful when you need a super obscure part that’s not available on ebay or Amazon and just sold on three random websites. Google shopping will show them and let you compare prices perfectly.

someguy3@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 17:13 next collapse

I find the results suck donkey balls.

supercriticalcheese@feddit.it on 05 Oct 2023 17:32 collapse

You are not going to get a more constructive criticism from OP.

I use mainly ddg but I have occasionally needed to switch to Google, but it’s happening less and less.

But then again with Google you need to frequently add keywords such as discussions or Reddit to find something that in the word’s of OP doesn’t suck balls.

brewery@feddit.uk on 05 Oct 2023 16:26 next collapse

What difficulties are you finding with it and are you switching from Google? The results are as custom as Google given they haven’t scraped your life history so wondering if that’s it? I’ve been using DDG without any issues. About once every 6 months I struggle to find something so try the Google bang but have never found better results. In fact, I was shocked last time how crap the Google results were, just full of AI generated crap and SEO based crap.

To be honest, DDG is also struggling with that now as it’s based on Bing. I have been trying a public searxg but not found it very good so far.

1984@lemmy.today on 05 Oct 2023 16:46 next collapse

Try Kagi. You may love it like I did.

Shinhoshi@lemmygrad.ml on 05 Oct 2023 19:57 next collapse

Genuinely curious, what makes it so great?

AProfessional@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 21:41 next collapse

I like being able to prioritize sites I like and deprioritize/block ones I don’t.

george@lemmy.org.il on 05 Oct 2023 21:48 collapse

For me, it finds smaller websites that usually contain the information I need, but aren’t SEOd that well so they don’t appear on ad-driven search engines. Also the programming lens is great

mojo@lemm.ee on 05 Oct 2023 20:25 collapse

Hell no. Paying for something that’s the same as ddg. That’s a terrible idea, and the results aren’t any better, despite how much their marketing claims it to be and that smaller blogs show up more.

bort@feddit.de on 05 Oct 2023 21:00 collapse

I guess you get what you pay for then lol

mojo@lemm.ee on 05 Oct 2023 22:08 collapse

In this case you actually get more for free. Not to mention the paid service is a privacy nightmare since all of the searched are done through a logged in user. Which also means it’s incompatible with private browsing. But their marketing says “trust me bro”, while they’re selling you an overrated product. DDG even simply through a VPN is a million times more private then any logged in service. You need to assume if something is trackable, it will be tracked. Don’t follow marketing blindly.

someguy3@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 17:12 next collapse

Results suck, it can’t find anything. I really don’t think it’s related to lack of browsing history.

progettarsi@feddit.it on 05 Oct 2023 17:14 collapse

what do you search? i always find everything at first time

clegko@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 17:22 collapse

Not the same person, but DDG results just seem a little bit shittier than Google’s results. It’s nothing I can specifically put my finger on, outside of “I’m having more issues finding an answer for my query”.

I also hate the basic layout of the page, but that’s not a DDG problem as such, just a personal opinion.

Polar@lemmy.ca on 05 Oct 2023 19:17 next collapse

I use DDG exclusively now, but I will say, despite the downvotes from these annoying ass FOSS users, DDG is worse.

If I am having some very specific issue with my computer, I will be page 5 on DDG without an answer, but Google will have one page 1.

Also Google Images is light years ahead DDG.

It took a long time to adjust to DDG, but now I am fine with it.

clegko@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 2023 02:35 collapse

If I am having some very specific issue with my computer, I will be page 5 on DDG without an answer, but Google will have one page 1.

This has always been my number one issue, too. I’m in IT and still struggle to use DDG (and Bing, tbf) for technical issues. The results are either only vaguely related to what I’m searching for, outdated as shit, or completely irrelevant. Automotive stuff is the same. I can be ass deep in DDG results and just be getting shit on top of shit. It’s frustrating, because I want to love DDG but it makes it so hard for my general use-case.

3v1n0@feddit.it on 06 Oct 2023 01:36 collapse

Just use ddg syntax operators and stuff will improve

clegko@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 2023 02:32 collapse

While that is true, you shouldn’t need to do that. The site should just work properly without diving into the advanced stuff. It’s also WAY more annoying to use on mobile.

dantheclamman@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 19:56 collapse

I love DDG and use it as my default, but there’s no doubt that its index is shallower and its semantic matching can’t compare to Google’s. I’m a biogeochemist and spend a lot of time coding in R. Google is just better at surfacing rare science articles/blogs and stackoverflow pages where my query doesn’t match exactly, but it is a relevant result. I use DDG for my personal searching and Google for professional searching

steltek@lemm.ee on 05 Oct 2023 16:30 next collapse

That didn’t stop them from plowing ahead with Apple Maps, even though its debut was total garbage.

Polar@lemmy.ca on 05 Oct 2023 19:18 collapse

Debut and still is garbage.

There’s a reason why Apple users have both installed.

Does Apple Maps even have reviews?

LifeInOregon@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 19:34 next collapse

Anyone who thinks Apple Maps is garbage isn’t comparing A/B with Google Maps regularly. At least not in the areas I drive.

Door Dash defaults to Google Maps for directions, and when I Dash and use Google the routing is always poor and seemingly unaware of construction, road blocks, and traffic jams. It also sometimes asks me to make turns in places that aren’t streets and recommends U Turns where they are illegal. I’ve encountered none of that with Apple Maps.

Kiosade@lemmy.ca on 05 Oct 2023 20:14 next collapse

Apple tried to get me to turn into a dead-end, concrete wall once. Never used it again. But that was years ago, so if they’ve improved that’s great to hear! Google Maps plays this game where it tries to act as traffic control. It’ll only show options for paths I know to be super crappy to take at certain times of day, but won’t show an alternate (not so secret) path I KNOW to be better. I’ll start heading the alternate way and lo and behold, it cuts off 5 mins or whatever from the ETA. So stupid.

jupitair@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 20:32 collapse

ImFresh3x@sh.itjust.works on 05 Oct 2023 20:47 collapse

Sometimes I’m too lazy to copy and paste an address into Google maps, and use Apple Maps. Every time I regret it. And exactly the opposite of what you said apple fails to see road closures and detours. While missing so many other things google has had for 15 years.

Shinhoshi@lemmygrad.ml on 05 Oct 2023 19:59 collapse

It’s not trash like the iOS 6 launch.

Yes, it has Yelp integration for reviews.

art@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 17:55 next collapse

Google search has been fundamentally broken for at least two years. When the protests started on Reddit 90% of Google’s search results we’re broken.

Fedizen@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 19:38 collapse

I found this too. After the reddit fiasco, I found DDG to have no downside. The search syntax is a little different (google’s is better) but the outputs arent radically different.

3v1n0@feddit.it on 06 Oct 2023 01:33 collapse

Don’t agree.

I switched from Google quite recently, as I knew it was hard…

But now I’m mostly not using !g unless for few cache: searches or when I want use few features (sport results, without going to specific websites).

You’ve to use some search syntax items more as + but otherwise it’s quite good and clear to read.

1984@lemmy.today on 05 Oct 2023 16:34 next collapse

They should make a deal with Kagi if they had any brains.

Even though im not sure if Kagi could take that amount of traffic right away.

sugartits@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 19:23 collapse

They should make a deal with Kagi if they had any brains.

Oh, okay

Lists critical reason why using Kagi would actually be a really dumb move

lol

mightygalahad@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 18:33 next collapse

Doesn’t Google pay billions to Apple for the top spot? Why would they want to lose that stream of free cash?

quarterlife@lemmy.sdf.org on 05 Oct 2023 18:57 next collapse

To harm a competitors stock prices more than they are paying out

glockenspiel@programming.dev on 05 Oct 2023 20:04 next collapse

Could be that Apple will acquire DuckDuckGo. A little hasty to presume it I suppose, but Apple has to wonder how much money they are leaving on the table by taking Google’s payments. If Google will pay them more than $9 billion/year just to be default—what does that say about how profitable Apple’s absolutely huge and locked-in base can be?

Hildegarde@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 20:25 next collapse

Could apple be using the press as part of their bargaining strategy with google over the default search engine fee?

Psychodelic@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 20:44 collapse

Only always

QHC@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 20:56 collapse

How is Apple going to monetize DuckDuckGo to make up for that $9 billion, without compromising their other efforts w/r/t user and data privacy?

ilinamorato@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 21:22 next collapse

How much do they monetize Apple Maps for? Sometimes companies just buy something to be a service supporting the thing they actually sell.

Auli@lemmy.ca on 06 Oct 2023 02:55 collapse

Rhey are going to sell ads on Apple maps.

Vub@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 2023 04:09 collapse

Source?

Edit: I googled it. There is no source, basically just a guy claiming that would be logical for them to do but his timeframe is already proven wrong and Apple hasn’t announced anything.

The_Mixer_Dude@lemmus.org on 06 Oct 2023 03:54 next collapse

What data privacy?

sir_reginald@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 2023 08:15 collapse

efforts

I think the appropriate word here is marketing. There’s no real privacy in an Apple device.

utopiah@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 20:28 next collapse

If the goodwill they garner from that makes APPL go up because it matches the privacy expectation they are branding themselves with, they might be making even more money anyway.

ohlaph@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 20:31 collapse

Exactly. They are trying to win the privacy game, so a small sacrifice now could turn to be quite profitable.

The_Mixer_Dude@lemmus.org on 05 Oct 2023 21:18 collapse

Privacy theater*

ilinamorato@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 21:24 collapse

Partially, but also partially it’s legit. I generally don’t have much positive to say about Apple, but they make pretty things and the privacy is generally better than most.

Of course, you pay through the nose for it.

r_se_random@sh.itjust.works on 06 Oct 2023 02:04 collapse

It’s not privacy but exclusivity of data collection to apple

ilinamorato@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 2023 02:15 collapse

I believe they’ve been externally audited before, but I’m not positive.

Auli@lemmy.ca on 06 Oct 2023 02:54 collapse

Audited for what? And I don’t think they have.

ilinamorato@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 2023 11:03 collapse

Audited for what telemetry is transmitted from an iPhone or Mac during use, what information is possible to harvest by a third party app, and whether or not purpose-made experimental data is made available to advertisers.

It looks like no official (that is, authorized by Apple) audits have been done, at least that I can see. But privacy research firms have done it, and the consensus appears to be that Apple is not great, but better than Google, Amazon, and Facebook. For what it’s worth.

Chunk@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 2023 03:41 next collapse

There is a big anti trust case against Google right now and this arrangement with apple is one of the topics of interest. If Google loses they could be forced to stop paying.

EeeDawg101@lemm.ee on 06 Oct 2023 07:23 next collapse

A Washington post article I was reading yesterday said google pays apple $19 billion this year to be the default browser on iPhones.

TWeaK@lemm.ee on 06 Oct 2023 10:23 collapse

Who says they’re not negotiating a larger stream of cash?

Blackmist@feddit.uk on 06 Oct 2023 14:33 collapse

With DuckDuckGo?

TWeaK@lemm.ee on 06 Oct 2023 15:01 collapse

No, with Google. If Google pay Apple more, they might be more willing to overlook the reasons they’re looking to switch.

p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 07 Oct 2023 06:00 collapse

This whole thing is just negotiation theater. Apple never intents to switch.

TWeaK@lemm.ee on 07 Oct 2023 06:20 collapse

Yes exactly. They just want to adjust the price.

Scotty_Trees@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 18:41 next collapse

On Safari (iOS), Apple makes it easy to switch. Settings > Safari > Search Engine and select which one you want. I’ve been using DDG not quite a year and at first the change felt a lil jarring, but knowing I’m contributing less to Google’s ad revenue and their long list of privacy violations, I’m comfortable now sticking with DDG. Change isn’t always easy, convenient, or comfortable, but it can be done with just the tiniest bit of effort.

Polar@lemmy.ca on 05 Oct 2023 19:14 next collapse

All browsers make it easy. In fact, Chrome on Android is quicker.

Settings > Search Engine > and select which one you want.

Currently you can pick between;

Google
Yahoo
Bing
DuckDuckGo
Ecosia

That’s not the point at all.

billwashere@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 21:08 next collapse

The point is MOST users don’t change it or even know how. I seriously doubt anyone in my family would even know that it is possible, know that there are other search engines, or that Google knowing everything about their searches is not a good thing. And yes they all use Facebook too.🤦‍♂️

xavier666@lemm.ee on 06 Oct 2023 06:03 collapse

I think the tech community should come to the realization that most people (no, not in your immediate circle which is mostly tech) don’t want choice; they want ease of use, which means guidance.

Why would a person, who can’t differentiate between google, a web browser, an app, or even the internet, want to change their device settings on their own which requires 10 clicks when their experience can be configured by zero clicks by a mega corp? This is a systemic issue in our society and needs to be corrected at school level in some sort of “Social media awareness/IT class”.

billwashere@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 2023 16:06 collapse

I agree completely. The biggest issue is it requires critical thinking which is unfortunately not a common skill. Maybe this is one of the first things that needs correcting.

systemglitch@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 21:08 collapse

I would imagine you can add your own in as well, the same as Firefox allows.

droans@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 21:49 next collapse

That’s a bit more difficult. It doesn’t allow you to manually type in the address so you need to keep visiting it until Google recognizes that it’s a search engine.

nnjethro@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 21:52 collapse

Yeah, it’s easy. I recently changed to Kagi. Just had to do a search using Kagi first, then open settings and it was there.

sir_reginald@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 2023 08:18 collapse

this is a very poor argument. every browser I’ve used, even Chrome, makes it easy to change the default search engine in the settings.

Rambi@lemm.ee on 06 Oct 2023 08:50 collapse

Were they making an argument?

sir_reginald@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 2023 10:16 next collapse

As I understood it, they were implying that Apple’s default is Google but they still care about privacy because they make it easy to switch to Duckduckgo.

I pointed out that this has been an essential feature in web browsers for years.

deur@feddit.nl on 06 Oct 2023 12:35 collapse

I wouldn’t agree with that being the correct interpretation, just so you know.

Scotty_Trees@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 2023 14:18 collapse

I wasn’t making any argument, merely offering advice how to change something and my experience in doing so. But my comment clearly upset a lot of Chrome users because I mentioned Google not respecting your privacy, which is a given for a lot of companies.

Mr_Rosewater@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 2023 22:08 next collapse

I’ve been using it this way for years. I don’t use google products at all now and don’t miss it.

plantedworld@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 2023 04:27 next collapse

I started using duck duck go a few months ago and have felt like my search results are a lot more useful since.

The maps function on it sucks though

ciphershort@lemmy.ml on 06 Oct 2023 04:46 next collapse

DDG uses Apple Maps.

MrRazamataz@lemmy.razbot.xyz on 06 Oct 2023 07:24 collapse

that explains that then

Rozz@lemmy.sdf.org on 06 Oct 2023 15:30 next collapse

The maps it used were a lot worse, so this is a recent improvement

possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip on 06 Oct 2023 16:22 collapse

I wish they would use leaflet

tiredofsametab@kbin.social on 06 Oct 2023 05:01 next collapse

I've been using duckduckgo for the last month and change and I'm not really a fan. Especially for things here in Japan, it can give really wonky results (today I was looking for the closest post office and searched '<cityname> post office'. It gave me a website to get directions, but no indication of where it might be nor, y'know, even the post office's website). Google has gotten continually worse for me, but this was, in most cases, just barely as good or worse.

cyberpunk007@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 2023 05:05 next collapse

It’s been my default for years. Usually I find what I want. When I don’t, I go back to the search box and put !g at the front, which sends the search to google.

AndreTelevise@lemm.ee on 06 Oct 2023 05:50 collapse

!sp (Startpage) gives you the same results as Google but without personalized ads or ad tracking.

Fisch@lemmy.ml on 06 Oct 2023 14:48 collapse

!s is actually enough

pomodoro_longbreak@sh.itjust.works on 06 Oct 2023 21:00 collapse

Thanks both! Will try to remember this for next time.

Stylus2650@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 2023 06:12 collapse

To confirm, are you also toggling the Japan region for searches?

tiredofsametab@kbin.social on 06 Oct 2023 07:08 collapse

I didn't notice that was a thing, but it defaulted to Japan so we're safe there.

arin@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 2023 05:41 next collapse

Did DDG move away from consolidating results from Google and other engines?

ryannathans@aussie.zone on 06 Oct 2023 09:39 collapse

Bing now

uglyduckling81@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 2023 14:44 next collapse

Duck duck go needs a lot of work to replace Google search.

I’ve used it for years but often I still get the shits and just bring Google up after duck duck go fails to find what I’m looking for.

psychothumbs@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 2023 14:51 next collapse

Huh I’m also a regular DDG user but I never have that experience.

fprawn@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 2023 15:18 next collapse

Yeah, have had a similar experience. I find the more specific or niche a question is, the better google is at finding relevant pages. DDG is perfectly fine the rest of the time, though, so I keep it as the default.

driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br on 06 Oct 2023 17:05 next collapse

For 9 of 10 search DDG give me what I’m looking for in the top results, for the other time I just add g! to the search and its sends me to google.

pomodoro_longbreak@sh.itjust.works on 06 Oct 2023 20:59 next collapse

I usually forget I’m using it. Exception is for work - I frequently have to specify g! to get Stackoverflow results to show up at the top.

RalphFurley@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 2023 21:31 next collapse

The android app is nice, especially the app tracking blocker. It takes up the VPN connection tho

jfx@discuss.tchncs.de on 06 Oct 2023 21:46 collapse

For me the direct opposite is true. About two years ago Google stopped giving me any accurate results, feeding me a bunch of semi-related garbage instead. DuckDuckGo feels like the Google of old: results that actually (literally) contain the terms of the query and not much else. I’d hate using the internet without it.

WetBeardHairs@lemmy.ml on 06 Oct 2023 23:23 collapse

I felt the same way. Lately, though, ddg has been serving unrelated garbage ads in the middle of my searches. I am now looking for something new. Startpage has some decent results so far…

Jimmycakes@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 2023 16:14 next collapse

Duck duck go sucks for porn I stopped using it a while ago. Until they fix that I’m out.

PutangInaMo@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 2023 17:38 next collapse

Bing image search is surpringly efficient for this

TheMinions@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 2023 20:44 collapse

Isn’t it the same search index?

CaptPretentious@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 2023 21:00 next collapse

The man has priorities

CarterDarter@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 2023 21:03 next collapse

Or piracy

AzureRT@reddthat.com on 06 Oct 2023 23:01 collapse

Oddly enough I used DDG once for an artist and actually got results meanwhile Google gave me irrelevant shit

Harry_h0udini@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 06 Oct 2023 18:09 next collapse

Vote for Brave search.

irotsoma@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 2023 23:47 collapse

Duck duck go is crap these days, probably since it uses Bing. All I ever get are “7 best ways to…” click bait, probably AI generated “articles”.