Darkcoffee@sh.itjust.works
on 03 Apr 2025 12:11
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Yes. Tech billionaires are the ones who stood behind Trump proudly on inauguration day, so let’s start using Canadian/European options. Plenty of them match what those tech companies offer anyway.
skozzii@lemmy.ca
on 03 Apr 2025 12:50
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I believe this is how we can cripple the US.
I just switched my services over and there are some great alternatives, we have just been pre-programmed to use the American default brands.
Adobe, Microsoft, Apple, Google, Amazon all easy to replace.
The only challenging one so far is YouTube, content is just lacking elsewhere, but atleast with adblockers YouTube isn’t getting my money.
Engywuck@lemm.ee
on 03 Apr 2025 13:17
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TBF, just leaving YouTube would be better. There’s plenty of information out there which don’t need some glorified video hosting platform (books, blogs, wikis and so oh). I really struggle trying to understand people’s addiction to YT…
To each their own, I guess. I prefer written stuff.
peoplebeproblems@midwest.social
on 03 Apr 2025 16:23
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Me too. A good written guide is always way more effective. There rare today though :/
Chocobofangirl@lemmy.world
on 04 Apr 2025 15:55
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Shout-out to Gamers Nexus for making a written site for all their content gamersnexus.net tho i recognize that’s not very helpful for avoiding American lol
philthi@lemmy.world
on 03 Apr 2025 17:02
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I use YouTube extensively (I mean, 2-5 hours a day) and 7 days a week for years now; I use it for language learning, there is really nothing better than normal people chatting (to the camera or between themselves) about regular daily stuff that I’m also interested in, to improve comprehension, I’d love to find any source as rich as YouTube. Peertube is hopeless, I tried and failed there due to a complete lack of content (though I do check in occasionally, I’d love if some of my subscribed YouTubers would start publishing on that platform… Though I don’t know if there are any monetary incentives for them to do that?).
Engywuck@lemm.ee
on 03 Apr 2025 17:26
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I’m specifically talking about the video as a medium to share information, and youtube is the worst, as it’s 99% filled with crappy influencer stuff whose only aim is to monetize people’s time.
Sure there’s that. I’m just trying to help you understand the viewpoint of some of the people that are heavy users of YouTube, and why there are currently no good alternatives, as you said “I really struggle trying to understand”.
I’m sure, like me, there are other people with their own alternative valid reasons for using YouTube for enormous amounts of time.
Just because some of the content on a platform is bad or not to our tastes, doesn’t mean it all is, and it certainly doesn’t mean that the users are wrong for using that platform in a way that suits them.
I do disagree with the publishing of content that is hateful or deliberately trying to misinform people, and I think YouTube has a lot of that, I’d obviously prefer it didn’t.
Can you not just make sure YouTube gets none of your money by using a front end that strips out all ads and sponsored segments? My kids watch YouTube but they’ve never seen an ad.
DFX4509B_2@lemmy.org
on 04 Apr 2025 01:24
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Google’s been attacking those lately, mostly to success (Piped and Invidious are effectively dead, ViewTube is also dead, and FreeTube’s a target now).
I pay for YouTube premium. Although I’d prefer to find an EU alternative, I really have no problem paying for a service that I consider worth the price.
A red flag for me, is if I’m paying for a service and they still show me adverts.
It’s not really the same kind of media at all, depending on what you watch. I guess what I look for in YouTube are interesting perspectives, often on things I haven’t even considered.
Maybe something like blogs could partially replace it, but I’m not aware of any blogging platforms that have tons of interesting perspectives and things to talk about and actually knows what to offer me.
Isn’t blogging kind of dead?
I used to read books when I was younger, but I have serious attention issues with text-only stuff. And it’s straining on eyes.
andallthat@lemmy.world
on 03 Apr 2025 13:38
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yes, there are clearly unfair trade practices here. EU has been making money for Google and Amazon, but the US are not using our services.
I hear the best solution to this are tariffs: EU users have to pay to use gmail until enough US users start using EU email providers and we rebalance the services trade!
Telorand@reddthat.com
on 03 Apr 2025 14:04
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I’ll eat those tariffs to ensure the companies that stood at Trump’s side feel it in their stock portfolios.
CarbonatedPastaSauce@lemmy.world
on 03 Apr 2025 17:01
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That’s a great idea and I may do the same, because I have the means. I won’t blame ANYONE that can’t because they are just struggling to get by, though. There’s going to be a lot of pain and a lot of people are going to have to go into survival mode. If they have to buy the cheapest shit at Walmart to get by, I won’t judge.
Telorand@reddthat.com
on 03 Apr 2025 18:10
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Same. Hard times are coming, and I have a suspicion it’s going to be worse than 2008.
People will need to do what they can do, and I don’t blame them for surviving.
Arkouda@lemmy.ca
on 03 Apr 2025 14:25
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Any recommendations? It seems a lot of my alternatives are turning heel and I would like more options. Preferably ones not likely to turn heel.
echodot@feddit.uk
on 03 Apr 2025 16:24
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All the alternative businesses to Amazon suck. And also probably advertise on Amazon as drop shippers anyway.
TrenchcoatFullofBats@belfry.rip
on 03 Apr 2025 17:44
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Yeah, switched to a different company for kitchen stuff, bought it on their site and everything, felt good about it.
Delivery day comes, guess who delivered the package? Amazon. So that was great.
RedstoneValley@sh.itjust.works
on 03 Apr 2025 16:30
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little choice for amazon the logistic company
Depends on where you live. Here in Germany we have a few alternatives, like “Otto” and a few others with specialisations like electronics. Some of them have a marketplace just like Amazon and they even offer the same cheap chinese crap that Amazon has to offer. So you could feel right at home.
schnapsman@lemmy.world
on 04 Apr 2025 11:58
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Can use a website like idealo to search multiple stores at once. I just wish they had a filter to block amazon results.
fruitycoder@sh.itjust.works
on 03 Apr 2025 17:28
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Tbh I just duckduckgo the company and product if I find it in Amazon and order directly
dojan@lemmy.world
on 03 Apr 2025 17:47
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Amazon is barely a thing here in Sweden. It’s niche drop shipped garbage for the most part, very similar to Wish and the like.
They have some non-garbage stuff at the same price you find elsewhere.
They also don’t do logistics here. Utterly useless company.
Chocobofangirl@lemmy.world
on 04 Apr 2025 15:52
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Yeah they pulled out of QC so if I wasn’t so close to Ontario they’d be completely useless for me in canada too. Not that I haven’t avoided them for big purchases like computer stuff already, gonna have to look what general marketplaces we have otherwise lol
Arkouda@lemmy.ca
on 03 Apr 2025 18:06
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Thank you for this!
pinball_wizard@lemmy.zip
on 03 Apr 2025 19:08
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Amazon - the logistics company - is just a front end for (and leech on) various drop shippers, lately, anyway.
Amazon used to carry quality guarantees, and have meaningful reviews, but lately the wild West crapshoot of the rest of the web is just as good.
(And at least on the rest of the web I have some idea who I’m buying from, and can avoid them after a bad experience. On Amazon, it got to where there was no way I could tell.)
kokolowlander@lemm.ee
on 04 Apr 2025 10:55
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Aren’t drop shippers finished with the recent tariffs, especially closing the loophole of de minimis?
Chocobofangirl@lemmy.world
on 04 Apr 2025 15:45
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For you guys. Amazon canada will still be infested with them, for instance. Also that’s assuming the dropshippers don’t just reroute their stuff to whoever has the lowest tariffs before delivering it here, like how lindt is moving all it’s delivery back into Europe so that they can go around the US to deliver to places like Canada.
lka1988@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 03 Apr 2025 20:00
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playstation
The game console, made by Sony, who famously keeps trying to fuck everyone else over?
WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world
on 03 Apr 2025 21:26
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All game console companies famously keep trying to fuck everyone else over. Sony actually comes off fairly well compared to Nintendo and Microsoft.
lka1988@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 03 Apr 2025 21:41
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Sony shipped literal rootkits with their software years ago.
WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world
on 03 Apr 2025 21:44
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Yes. Twenty years ago. Now take a look at what Nintendo and Microsoft have been doing just within the past couple of years (as well as what they were doing twenty years ago and beyond, since they both have long track records of shitty behaviour.)
Yes, Sony is not a good company, but we’re comparing them to Nintendo and Microsoft here.
lka1988@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 03 Apr 2025 22:02
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True. Nintendo is extremely cutthroat with their IP, they like going after emulators and similar.
Which is nowhere comparable to infecting your stuff with malware…
Chocobofangirl@lemmy.world
on 04 Apr 2025 15:50
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Which is a thing that’s happened on Steam twice this month thanks to update loopholes and some outbound link fuckery. Also anti-cheat is kernel level, which is why you can’t play a lot of multiplayer games on Linux, but you don’t see a lot of PC games forgoing it because the alternative is being unplayable. Turns out some idiot Sony music exec (which is literally a separate company from Sony interactive) was ahead of the curve on the new normal, much as I also hate it lol
second hand shops or apps if you are into saving money and/or the planet
ISOmorph@feddit.org
on 03 Apr 2025 16:28
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I agree with your point but you mentioned the services that are literally the hardest to find alternatives for. Need to use photoshop professionally, good luck getting around adobe. Sys admin only allows microsoft because he doesn’t want to manage a bazillion different setups, get used to windows buddy. I could go on with examples…
Getting rid of those predatory megacorps is worth the fight, but it’s a fight. And it’s not getting easier just by calling it easy.
punksnotdead@slrpnk.net
on 03 Apr 2025 16:53
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I think you’re forgetting the power of consumers. At work you might not be able to replace Photoshop or Microsoft but at home you certainly can. The more people that become familiar with alternative software the more likely professional environments are to adopt it.
Why would a company want to pay Adobe or Microsoft if their employees are more adept with free alternatives? Especially if those alternatives gain feature parity with the paid services while the paid services lock parts behind paywalls and subscriptions.
Don’t let perfect get in the way of good!
TrenchcoatFullofBats@belfry.rip
on 03 Apr 2025 17:49
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Agreed. I’ve been using Krita quite a bit lately and honestly, it’s really good. I haven’t used an Adobe product for a few years, but it’s been able to do everything I want it to do so far.
DoubleTK@lemmy.world
on 04 Apr 2025 01:19
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Adobe has a Print Production feature where you can run a Preflight Analysis that identifies all the elements in the PDF. I haven’t been able to find a similar feature elsewhere. I’d love to get off Adobe, but that one feature is pretty critical for my workflow.
fruitycoder@sh.itjust.works
on 03 Apr 2025 17:27
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Small buisnesses and more so consumers can flex on what they use.
Academia can choose what they teach and require
Governments can choose what they pay for
We have power
CarbonatedPastaSauce@lemmy.world
on 03 Apr 2025 16:58
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As an American I’m here for it and encourage it. These greedy evil fuckers need to be brought down and if we have to burn it all down so be it, so we can rebuild better. What we have now is clearly not functioning for anyone but the 1%.
redsand@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 03 Apr 2025 20:50
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Anyone who can should backup their favorite channels with yt-dlp while you can. Don’t forget to embed the subtitles and metadata. I intend to put up torrents soon and others should as well. If you wish to support the original channel put document with links to patreon or whatever that creator uses.
Mandrilleren@lemmy.world
on 04 Apr 2025 13:56
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Depending on what content you watch, Nebula might be a good choice.
Deleted meta acccount with a note referencing trump and zuck. Not much but its what I had to do
givesomefucks@lemmy.world
on 03 Apr 2025 12:19
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Do it, fuck up Twitter, Amazon, meta, and everyone else that shared a stage with trump.
The only language they know is $, if trump is bad for their money, they’ll go against trump.
These are people obsessed with wealth over every thing else, it’s not hard to manipulate them, but when rational adults regain power, we need to tax the ever loving shit out of them because no matter what happens, they’ll always choose “more money”.
Alphane_Moon@lemmy.world
on 03 Apr 2025 13:58
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I wouldn’t go as far as saying it’s very easy to manipulate American oligarchs. However, they are relatively provincial and lack the capabilities to deal with truly complex challenges.
They operate in an environment with no real risk. They’ve never dealt with any real challenges. The US judicial system is a joke (even in China, Alibaba’s Jack Ma immediately regretted going on a public chimp out). US society is either openly supportive of corruption and criminality or lacks the capability (true desire and risk tolerance) to address corruption.
This is not to underestimate American oligarchs. They are extremely sophisticated and absolutely committed to their “number go up” fetish, but you also have to be real about what they are.
ShadowRam@fedia.io
on 03 Apr 2025 12:34
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ahh... I was wondering when people were going to start talking about Tariffs in relation to streaming services and purchasing software...
gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works
on 03 Apr 2025 12:44
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lol holy shit do it. DO IT. This will utterly FUCK the profit model of more things than I can quickly explain
Alphane_Moon@lemmy.world
on 03 Apr 2025 13:28
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Let’s just hope they move fast and aren’t afraid to break things.
Lanske@lemmy.world
on 03 Apr 2025 13:00
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Sounds like a good idea, hit them where it hurts!
I left Big Tech a while ago, but if the EU can hit them with tariffs and hurt people like Zuck and (F)Elon, awesome!
ininewcrow@lemmy.ca
on 03 Apr 2025 13:26
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Newspapers, magazines, TV, film, movies, broadcasts are all regulated nationally and internationally
The same should be done for corporate social media companies who basically deliver all or most news content and information to people everywhere today.
The current state of the world is like being in the 1900s and only having six major newspapers in the world owned by big corporations and none of the content they publish or share is regulated or controlled.
Why not legalising piracy for media made in the US? Imagine if all movies and TV series were suddenly public domain in Europe…
someguy3@lemmy.world
on 03 Apr 2025 13:30
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All it takes is a critical mass of users to make their own Facebook. A continental divide seems like a good place.
TheBat@lemmy.world
on 03 Apr 2025 17:44
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When America sends their users, they’re not sending their best. They’re sending trolls, shitposters, influencers. They’re bringing Ben Shapiro and Alex Jones. And some, I assume, are good users.
Edit: The original quote (about Mexicans) is from 2015. Feel old yet?
This isn’t as much about the social media platforms, competing with those is relatively feasible. This is more about the professional infrastructure market. Microsoft Azure, AWS and Google Cloud. There isn’t really a European competitor there, the US dominates this market. We have a huge trade deficit on these services, which Trump “conveniently” didn’t include in his trade war analysis.
Oisteink@feddit.nl
on 03 Apr 2025 13:31
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How would this affect the big players? Like MS -you buy from the European branch and they use buy from US. So hitting them with tariffs would hurt MS more than their customers?
I understand they will raise prices, but its not like with physical goods where the same item is resold. They use other ways to transfer money because tax
Telorand@reddthat.com
on 03 Apr 2025 13:58
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The purpose of tariffs (in a normal world) is to make it harder for domestic entities to buy international goods. Typically, this will spur growth of a particular sector of industry within a country over time.
The way Trump is using them as a battering ram in an attempt to punish other countries, rather than incentivize steady growth, is why the US market is tanking and likely headed to another recession (or worse).
By retaliating in kind, the EU will be incentivizing their citizens and companies not to buy from the US. This will hurt companies that are based in the US, like Google, Microsoft, Meta, etc., further sending the US economy into freefall and bolstering the European economy, since they aren’t trying to punish every single trade partner in existence.
There may be other ways they try to move money around to avoid the tariffs, but governments are aware of how big businesses operate and often try to close those kinds of loopholes. Since this has become a global political issue, I would imagine they’ll be keeping a more watchful eye than normal on things.
TenderHombre@lemm.ee
on 04 Apr 2025 04:29
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It becomes very hard to tariff intangible services like those provided by tech, or financial securities.
If the datacenter is in the EU and that EU data center is servicing EU does it get tariffed? I think they should just do shit like requiring certain infrastructure and job investments in the EU or pay higher tax rates on revenue.
Current US tax policy, GILTI and FDII already kinda incentivize offshoring for multinational companies based in the US. Companies that deal largely in intangible good are already outsourcing jobs. EU forcing them to speed up this process puts both Trump and the multinational companies in a double bind.
Neither can really make a move in their best interest without pissing the other off.
TheProtagonist@lemmy.world
on 03 Apr 2025 13:41
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Okay, Orangeman! Now it’s getting personal…
kibiz0r@midwest.social
on 03 Apr 2025 14:08
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Don’t use tariffs. Legalize jailbreaking and adversarial interop instead. Disregard American DRM.
Don’t just legalise jailbreak (which was never illegal anyway 😂), but force device manufacturers to unlock root as soon as they end support for the device.
How about not letting Google have exclusive rights to the drivers for all the phone hardware?
What exactly do you mean by that? Google is one of the few companies that let you easily unlock their phones so you can do whatever you want with them.
No, unlock as in: You can install whatever operating system you want. No need for “jailbreaking” on Google phones. They officially support unlocking the bootloader (and re-locking it later as well!). There are many things not to like about Google, but how they handle their phones when it comes to openness is certainly not one of them. Pretty much all other phone vendors are much worse than that (except for maybe a few small ones like Fairphone).
You are talking about phones made by Google. I am talking about ALL the phones using Android and how difficult or sometimes impossible it is to use anything but Android.
That’s not what you were saying. You were explicitly talking about Google. Also, implying it is Google’s fault that other manufacturers don’t let you install other operating systems easily is pretty bizarre. If you want to complain about that, at least complain about the right companies. Those are usually the phone manufacturers and/or the SoC manufacturers. The SoC manufacturers often times are particularily problematic, since they often do not publish open source drivers at all or in a very limited fashion.
I’m not sure why you think manufactuers of SoCs (or entire phones) - which aren’t used by Google directly (as in: used by Google in their own products or sold by Google as their own product) - provide drivers to Google. They don’t, because there is no point in doing that. This is not how the Android eco-system works or the business of selling those SoCs for that matter.
SoC manufactuers sell their SoCs to companies who want to build Android phones (or they build their own like Samsung). With those SoCs they provide a BSP (board support package) that includes all the bits needed to bring up a system running on that partricular SoC. Google has pretty much nothing to do with this, except that Google recommends a certain Linux kernel version (with a bunch of Android-specific patches) for a given Android version, which SoC makers often (but not always) use as the base for their customized kernels.
It is not like Google provides the operating system including all device specific drivers to the device manufacturers. They don’t care about that at all. They provide AOSP (which is open source, so anyone can get that) as well as their proprietary stuff like Google Play etc. That’s pretty much it.
There is a lot not to like about many Android phones (or rather smartphones in general), when it comes to their openness in regards to software. And it is perfectly fine to criticize those involved, but you should direct your criticism at the correct parties. Google isn’t the bad guy in this instance.
raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world
on 03 Apr 2025 17:33
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Why not force them to unlock root from the start?
lka1988@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 03 Apr 2025 19:57
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Because people are stupid, will fuck up their device/s, and then complain to the manufacturer about how their device was ruined.
It’s an incredibly stupid argument, but it’s their argument nonetheless. Something something “for your safety/protection/security/etc”…i.e. “Trust us”.
I think root privileges should be available as well, but in a way that 1) only someone who knows what the fuck they’re doing can access, and 2) can be done entirely locally, without calling to a server controlled by the manufacturer.
Squizzy@lemmy.world
on 03 Apr 2025 22:55
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Absolutely anyone can follow a guide to root a phone, I am an idiot and I have done it. The manufacturer should not be liable for me using the phone in a manner not intended and then breaking it, but they should absolutely have to make it available to do. It should only require signing away liability in a tick box.
lka1988@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 03 Apr 2025 23:21
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Exactly, and this also ties into my first point that the people who know, know what to look for.
I’ve rooted/jailbroken every single phone and tablet I’ve owned over the last 15 years. I wouldn’t have it any other way. I cannot stand the artificial “security” blocks out in place simply because a company thinks rooted users are somehow cheating or committing fraud or what have you - the people who do that are gonna do it no matter what.
raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world
on 03 Apr 2025 22:57
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Rooting a device shouldn’t be any more complicated than having a sticker saying “warranty void if removed”.
lka1988@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 03 Apr 2025 23:26
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I don’t disagree, however, there needs to be some form of security so the average Joe (or their kid) doesn’t accidentally press the wrong button and rm -rf the entire device (exaggerating of course, but you get the idea).
raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world
on 04 Apr 2025 14:57
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my apologies, I was actually thinking of “unlocking the bootloader”, rooting a device without an unlocked bootloader didn’t even occur to me. And since unlocking a bootloader is non-trivial by design, that would prevent any such accidents.
syklemil@discuss.tchncs.de
on 03 Apr 2025 14:55
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Yeah, let’s have a go with the ACI (anti-coercion instrument) and see if we can’t make their patents free game. Playing to Trump’s tune is unlikely to work out well
echodot@feddit.uk
on 03 Apr 2025 16:20
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You know jailbreaking isn’t illegal right? It’s the same is removing one of those void if removed stickers, you won’t get tech support anymore but who cares about Apple tech support?
CarbonatedPastaSauce@lemmy.world
on 03 Apr 2025 16:56
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Those stickers have no legal weight anyway, at least in the United States. The manufacturer has to prove that you damaged the device, whether the sticker is there or not. They can not refuse service just because a sticker is missing.
ripcord@lemmy.world
on 03 Apr 2025 18:44
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Isn’t it sometimes? Like if involved breaking something encrypted, I thought it was. And possibly other cases as well. At least in the US thanks to the DMCA and others.
From the ashes maybe a better internet will emerge then. The current one is very dogshit and only going worse.
yggstyle@lemmy.world
on 03 Apr 2025 20:03
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Where do I sign up for newgrounds 2.0?
Lightor@lemmy.world
on 03 Apr 2025 22:31
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There are plenty of providers, this is a little reactionary. I’ve worked with a local data center for hosting in every state I’ve lived in.
yggstyle@lemmy.world
on 03 Apr 2025 22:41
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It’s not about the providers, it’s about the move. Companies will need to migrate their infrastructure to another platform which (let’s be honest) likely will not have the bandwidth / rack space / hardware to support the influx of users. Companies will self host? Okay sure: time to spin up internal clusters, train employees, provision additional bandwidth / connections. And naturally - this will all go off without a hitch. Like flipping a switch.
And we need to remember that many of these services rely on each other so one goes down: they take each other out.
Yeah, we’ve got on-prem cloud hosting at a university, and moving away from VMware is an ongoing process. Still. Two, three years after the writing was on the wall. They’d rather pay the Danegeld.
Squizzy@lemmy.world
on 03 Apr 2025 22:53
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I’d double my mortgage just to see microsoft365 crumble.
yggstyle@lemmy.world
on 03 Apr 2025 23:39
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But you love teams right?! (get the gas can - I’ll get the matches)
Squizzy@lemmy.world
on 04 Apr 2025 08:33
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There is no feature that is simpler than gsuite. So much duplication and needless services and apps.
I hate google and microsoft for making me appreciate their product.
Lightor@lemmy.world
on 04 Apr 2025 00:06
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This is why you give notice; this isn’t an overnight thing. If anything, this would help strengthen and decentralize hosting platforms while giving a huge amount of business to companies to help them migrate. I think the real shake is going to be those locked into provide IP like Redshift or Fargate.
yggstyle@lemmy.world
on 04 Apr 2025 01:05
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Notice or not any infrastructure change is brutal - even if you go like for like.
I’m not saying I’m against the idea: I loathe all the centralization and robber barons running around in this era. But switches like these rarely go as planned. If haste is required even less so.
Oh I get it. We made the jump from Google Cloud to AWS, and I’m sure there are companies that are even more vendor locked. But a good example of what people can do when they don’t have a choice is the new PCI 4.0 roll out that has cost companies millions they wouldn’t spend unless made to do so. Will it be a mountain to climb and cost a ton, yeah, but change in the right direction isn’t always easy.
I’m with you, it will be hard, and they need a good system for extensions and the like, with a reasonable time line. But this is good change IMO, even if it’s painful.
inertia is a thing, but just by having new EU projects avoid the big three you’d already have done a world of good to the IT ecosystem.
yggstyle@lemmy.world
on 04 Apr 2025 16:16
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100%
Germany is providing an open source solution to gsuite (which I haven’t looked at yet) but am told it’s pretty good. More open and more choice is great.
That entirely depends on who deeply they’ve locked themselves into a single-vendor set of services. If they used an abstraction tool to hide vendor-specific implementation detail, and were moderately smart, it’d take little besides minor config changes, redeployment and some regression testing.
Source: I’ve done it.
yggstyle@lemmy.world
on 04 Apr 2025 16:13
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were moderately smart
This is mostly the problem in a lot of cases. A lot of companies don’t pay you to be smart… they pay you to be “efficient” which normally means cheap.
Good and skilled people may be in a lot of these companies… but their hands may be tied in terms of choices.
ThePancake@lemmy.world
on 04 Apr 2025 12:19
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A slap on the wrist for two of the tech giants is great progress. I would consider this a start, but not done yet.
The linked article supports this as well:
Tove Maria Ryding from the European Network on Debt and Development, an association of trade unions and non-governmental organisations, welcomed the ECJ’s decision but stressed “our tax problem is more than just one rotten apple”.
She said the case addressed tax matters dating back over 20 years and was “a perfect illustration of the chaotic corporate tax system we have”.
“What we urgently need is a fundamental reform that can give us a tax system that is fair, effective, transparent and predictable," she said.
WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world
on 03 Apr 2025 21:21
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Exactly. Never do anything until you can do everything all at once. If you can’t wave a magic wand and solve all problems everywhere, it’s best to just keep the status quo.
Or, you know, do two things at once. It’s not uneard of for a huge governmental entity to be able to do that. And it’s stupid to repaint the ceiling when you have a leaky roof.
RymrgandsDaughter@lemmy.world
on 04 Apr 2025 07:11
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Yeah and make it 200%
professionalbalkan@lemm.ee
on 04 Apr 2025 09:35
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This in combination with deregulating the single market and allowing EU tech startup to thrive would finally give birth to real competitors on our continent
There is a big push from EU at the moment to reduce “red tape” to make it easier for business, see for example mastodon post from EC a few hours ago:
ec.social-network.europa.eu/…/114280068967975617
Should be two pronged - tariffs on cloud and other services while fostering competitive local alternatives. While it’s possible knock up a cloud out of anything there is nothing in Europe as coherent as the offerings by Amazon, Google or Microsoft. And there should be.
biofaust@lemmy.world
on 04 Apr 2025 12:32
nextcollapse
Show this to Varoufakis.
friendlyghost@lemm.ee
on 04 Apr 2025 14:28
nextcollapse
For now it’s a lot of mights and very few dids.
Just make companies that are that huge to pay higher taxes to operate in the EU. It’s not a tariff is contributing their fair share to the social network of the EU. And ffs, reign in any country allowing these companies to operate in tax havens in the EU
Gammelfisch@lemmy.world
on 04 Apr 2025 23:20
nextcollapse
Do it, the USA lost their industrial base to the shareholders and services is all they have. Let it rip!
_cryptagion@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 05 Apr 2025 00:09
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threaded - newest
Yes. Tech billionaires are the ones who stood behind Trump proudly on inauguration day, so let’s start using Canadian/European options. Plenty of them match what those tech companies offer anyway.
I believe this is how we can cripple the US.
I just switched my services over and there are some great alternatives, we have just been pre-programmed to use the American default brands.
Adobe, Microsoft, Apple, Google, Amazon all easy to replace.
The only challenging one so far is YouTube, content is just lacking elsewhere, but atleast with adblockers YouTube isn’t getting my money.
TBF, just leaving YouTube would be better. There’s plenty of information out there which don’t need some glorified video hosting platform (books, blogs, wikis and so oh). I really struggle trying to understand people’s addiction to YT…
I like long form video content from someone who is passionate about a subject
To each their own, I guess. I prefer written stuff.
Me too. A good written guide is always way more effective. There rare today though :/
Shout-out to Gamers Nexus for making a written site for all their content gamersnexus.net tho i recognize that’s not very helpful for avoiding American lol
I use YouTube extensively (I mean, 2-5 hours a day) and 7 days a week for years now; I use it for language learning, there is really nothing better than normal people chatting (to the camera or between themselves) about regular daily stuff that I’m also interested in, to improve comprehension, I’d love to find any source as rich as YouTube. Peertube is hopeless, I tried and failed there due to a complete lack of content (though I do check in occasionally, I’d love if some of my subscribed YouTubers would start publishing on that platform… Though I don’t know if there are any monetary incentives for them to do that?).
I’m specifically talking about the video as a medium to share information, and youtube is the worst, as it’s 99% filled with crappy influencer stuff whose only aim is to monetize people’s time.
Sure there’s that. I’m just trying to help you understand the viewpoint of some of the people that are heavy users of YouTube, and why there are currently no good alternatives, as you said “I really struggle trying to understand”.
I’m sure, like me, there are other people with their own alternative valid reasons for using YouTube for enormous amounts of time.
Just because some of the content on a platform is bad or not to our tastes, doesn’t mean it all is, and it certainly doesn’t mean that the users are wrong for using that platform in a way that suits them.
I do disagree with the publishing of content that is hateful or deliberately trying to misinform people, and I think YouTube has a lot of that, I’d obviously prefer it didn’t.
“I really struggle trying to understand the addiction”, was my original statement. The two last words are important.
That’s fair.
Can you not just make sure YouTube gets none of your money by using a front end that strips out all ads and sponsored segments? My kids watch YouTube but they’ve never seen an ad.
Google’s been attacking those lately, mostly to success (Piped and Invidious are effectively dead, ViewTube is also dead, and FreeTube’s a target now).
I pay for YouTube premium. Although I’d prefer to find an EU alternative, I really have no problem paying for a service that I consider worth the price.
A red flag for me, is if I’m paying for a service and they still show me adverts.
It’s not really the same kind of media at all, depending on what you watch. I guess what I look for in YouTube are interesting perspectives, often on things I haven’t even considered. Maybe something like blogs could partially replace it, but I’m not aware of any blogging platforms that have tons of interesting perspectives and things to talk about and actually knows what to offer me. Isn’t blogging kind of dead?
I used to read books when I was younger, but I have serious attention issues with text-only stuff. And it’s straining on eyes.
yes, there are clearly unfair trade practices here. EU has been making money for Google and Amazon, but the US are not using our services. I hear the best solution to this are tariffs: EU users have to pay to use gmail until enough US users start using EU email providers and we rebalance the services trade!
As an American, I’m already subscribed to !buycanadian@lemmy.ca and !buyeuropean@feddit.uk.
I’ll eat those tariffs to ensure the companies that stood at Trump’s side feel it in their stock portfolios.
That’s a great idea and I may do the same, because I have the means. I won’t blame ANYONE that can’t because they are just struggling to get by, though. There’s going to be a lot of pain and a lot of people are going to have to go into survival mode. If they have to buy the cheapest shit at Walmart to get by, I won’t judge.
Same. Hard times are coming, and I have a suspicion it’s going to be worse than 2008.
People will need to do what they can do, and I don’t blame them for surviving.
Any recommendations? It seems a lot of my alternatives are turning heel and I would like more options. Preferably ones not likely to turn heel.
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All the alternative businesses to Amazon suck. And also probably advertise on Amazon as drop shippers anyway.
Yeah, switched to a different company for kitchen stuff, bought it on their site and everything, felt good about it.
Delivery day comes, guess who delivered the package? Amazon. So that was great.
Depends on where you live. Here in Germany we have a few alternatives, like “Otto” and a few others with specialisations like electronics. Some of them have a marketplace just like Amazon and they even offer the same cheap chinese crap that Amazon has to offer. So you could feel right at home.
Can use a website like idealo to search multiple stores at once. I just wish they had a filter to block amazon results.
Tbh I just duckduckgo the company and product if I find it in Amazon and order directly
Amazon is barely a thing here in Sweden. It’s niche drop shipped garbage for the most part, very similar to Wish and the like.
They have some non-garbage stuff at the same price you find elsewhere.
They also don’t do logistics here. Utterly useless company.
Yeah they pulled out of QC so if I wasn’t so close to Ontario they’d be completely useless for me in canada too. Not that I haven’t avoided them for big purchases like computer stuff already, gonna have to look what general marketplaces we have otherwise lol
Thank you for this!
Amazon - the logistics company - is just a front end for (and leech on) various drop shippers, lately, anyway.
Amazon used to carry quality guarantees, and have meaningful reviews, but lately the wild West crapshoot of the rest of the web is just as good.
(And at least on the rest of the web I have some idea who I’m buying from, and can avoid them after a bad experience. On Amazon, it got to where there was no way I could tell.)
Aren’t drop shippers finished with the recent tariffs, especially closing the loophole of de minimis?
For you guys. Amazon canada will still be infested with them, for instance. Also that’s assuming the dropshippers don’t just reroute their stuff to whoever has the lowest tariffs before delivering it here, like how lindt is moving all it’s delivery back into Europe so that they can go around the US to deliver to places like Canada.
The game console, made by Sony, who famously keeps trying to fuck everyone else over?
All game console companies famously keep trying to fuck everyone else over. Sony actually comes off fairly well compared to Nintendo and Microsoft.
Sony shipped literal rootkits with their software years ago.
Yes. Twenty years ago. Now take a look at what Nintendo and Microsoft have been doing just within the past couple of years (as well as what they were doing twenty years ago and beyond, since they both have long track records of shitty behaviour.)
Yes, Sony is not a good company, but we’re comparing them to Nintendo and Microsoft here.
True. Nintendo is extremely cutthroat with their IP, they like going after emulators and similar.
Which is nowhere comparable to infecting your stuff with malware…
Which is a thing that’s happened on Steam twice this month thanks to update loopholes and some outbound link fuckery. Also anti-cheat is kernel level, which is why you can’t play a lot of multiplayer games on Linux, but you don’t see a lot of PC games forgoing it because the alternative is being unplayable. Turns out some idiot Sony music exec (which is literally a separate company from Sony interactive) was ahead of the curve on the new normal, much as I also hate it lol
Jeez, guys… You’re a paleontologist or what? That happened centuries ago.
I’ve heard good things about lineage OS for android and maybe apple phones but I haven’t got around to using it
Little choice?
I agree with your point but you mentioned the services that are literally the hardest to find alternatives for. Need to use photoshop professionally, good luck getting around adobe. Sys admin only allows microsoft because he doesn’t want to manage a bazillion different setups, get used to windows buddy. I could go on with examples…
Getting rid of those predatory megacorps is worth the fight, but it’s a fight. And it’s not getting easier just by calling it easy.
I think you’re forgetting the power of consumers. At work you might not be able to replace Photoshop or Microsoft but at home you certainly can. The more people that become familiar with alternative software the more likely professional environments are to adopt it.
Why would a company want to pay Adobe or Microsoft if their employees are more adept with free alternatives? Especially if those alternatives gain feature parity with the paid services while the paid services lock parts behind paywalls and subscriptions.
Don’t let perfect get in the way of good!
Agreed. I’ve been using Krita quite a bit lately and honestly, it’s really good. I haven’t used an Adobe product for a few years, but it’s been able to do everything I want it to do so far.
Adobe has a Print Production feature where you can run a Preflight Analysis that identifies all the elements in the PDF. I haven’t been able to find a similar feature elsewhere. I’d love to get off Adobe, but that one feature is pretty critical for my workflow.
Small buisnesses and more so consumers can flex on what they use. Academia can choose what they teach and require Governments can choose what they pay for
We have power
As an American I’m here for it and encourage it. These greedy evil fuckers need to be brought down and if we have to burn it all down so be it, so we can rebuild better. What we have now is clearly not functioning for anyone but the 1%.
Anyone who can should backup their favorite channels with yt-dlp while you can. Don’t forget to embed the subtitles and metadata. I intend to put up torrents soon and others should as well. If you wish to support the original channel put document with links to patreon or whatever that creator uses.
Depending on what content you watch, Nebula might be a good choice.
Deleted meta acccount with a note referencing trump and zuck. Not much but its what I had to do
Do it, fuck up Twitter, Amazon, meta, and everyone else that shared a stage with trump.
The only language they know is $, if trump is bad for their money, they’ll go against trump.
These are people obsessed with wealth over every thing else, it’s not hard to manipulate them, but when rational adults regain power, we need to tax the ever loving shit out of them because no matter what happens, they’ll always choose “more money”.
I wouldn’t go as far as saying it’s very easy to manipulate American oligarchs. However, they are relatively provincial and lack the capabilities to deal with truly complex challenges.
They operate in an environment with no real risk. They’ve never dealt with any real challenges. The US judicial system is a joke (even in China, Alibaba’s Jack Ma immediately regretted going on a public chimp out). US society is either openly supportive of corruption and criminality or lacks the capability (true desire and risk tolerance) to address corruption.
This is not to underestimate American oligarchs. They are extremely sophisticated and absolutely committed to their “number go up” fetish, but you also have to be real about what they are.
ahh... I was wondering when people were going to start talking about Tariffs in relation to streaming services and purchasing software...
You’re thinking too small. Think of taxes on Enterprise software.
Good on you EU! I think a majority of the world would like to see Big Tech brought down a couple hundred pegs.
I was afraid of this… I support it but don’t need it. Oh well… Fuck the USA anyway!
Amen!!!
lol holy shit do it. DO IT. This will utterly FUCK the profit model of more things than I can quickly explain
Let’s just hope they move fast and aren’t afraid to break things.
Sounds like a good idea, hit them where it hurts! I left Big Tech a while ago, but if the EU can hit them with tariffs and hurt people like Zuck and (F)Elon, awesome!
Newspapers, magazines, TV, film, movies, broadcasts are all regulated nationally and internationally
The same should be done for corporate social media companies who basically deliver all or most news content and information to people everywhere today.
The current state of the world is like being in the 1900s and only having six major newspapers in the world owned by big corporations and none of the content they publish or share is regulated or controlled.
Why not legalising piracy for media made in the US? Imagine if all movies and TV series were suddenly public domain in Europe…
All it takes is a critical mass of users to make their own Facebook. A continental divide seems like a good place.
When America sends their users, they’re not sending their best. They’re sending trolls, shitposters, influencers. They’re bringing Ben Shapiro and Alex Jones. And some, I assume, are good users.
Edit: The original quote (about Mexicans) is from 2015. Feel old yet?
This isn’t as much about the social media platforms, competing with those is relatively feasible. This is more about the professional infrastructure market. Microsoft Azure, AWS and Google Cloud. There isn’t really a European competitor there, the US dominates this market. We have a huge trade deficit on these services, which Trump “conveniently” didn’t include in his trade war analysis.
How would this affect the big players? Like MS -you buy from the European branch and they use buy from US. So hitting them with tariffs would hurt MS more than their customers?
I understand they will raise prices, but its not like with physical goods where the same item is resold. They use other ways to transfer money because tax
The purpose of tariffs (in a normal world) is to make it harder for domestic entities to buy international goods. Typically, this will spur growth of a particular sector of industry within a country over time.
The way Trump is using them as a battering ram in an attempt to punish other countries, rather than incentivize steady growth, is why the US market is tanking and likely headed to another recession (or worse).
By retaliating in kind, the EU will be incentivizing their citizens and companies not to buy from the US. This will hurt companies that are based in the US, like Google, Microsoft, Meta, etc., further sending the US economy into freefall and bolstering the European economy, since they aren’t trying to punish every single trade partner in existence.
There may be other ways they try to move money around to avoid the tariffs, but governments are aware of how big businesses operate and often try to close those kinds of loopholes. Since this has become a global political issue, I would imagine they’ll be keeping a more watchful eye than normal on things.
It becomes very hard to tariff intangible services like those provided by tech, or financial securities.
If the datacenter is in the EU and that EU data center is servicing EU does it get tariffed? I think they should just do shit like requiring certain infrastructure and job investments in the EU or pay higher tax rates on revenue.
Current US tax policy, GILTI and FDII already kinda incentivize offshoring for multinational companies based in the US. Companies that deal largely in intangible good are already outsourcing jobs. EU forcing them to speed up this process puts both Trump and the multinational companies in a double bind.
Neither can really make a move in their best interest without pissing the other off.
Okay, Orangeman! Now it’s getting personal…
Don’t use tariffs. Legalize jailbreaking and adversarial interop instead. Disregard American DRM.
pluralistic.net/2025/01/15/beauty-eh/
Don’t just legalise jailbreak (which was never illegal anyway 😂), but force device manufacturers to unlock root as soon as they end support for the device.
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Agree 100%
What exactly do you mean by that? Google is one of the few companies that let you easily unlock their phones so you can do whatever you want with them.
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No, unlock as in: You can install whatever operating system you want. No need for “jailbreaking” on Google phones. They officially support unlocking the bootloader (and re-locking it later as well!). There are many things not to like about Google, but how they handle their phones when it comes to openness is certainly not one of them. Pretty much all other phone vendors are much worse than that (except for maybe a few small ones like Fairphone).
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That’s not what you were saying. You were explicitly talking about Google. Also, implying it is Google’s fault that other manufacturers don’t let you install other operating systems easily is pretty bizarre. If you want to complain about that, at least complain about the right companies. Those are usually the phone manufacturers and/or the SoC manufacturers. The SoC manufacturers often times are particularily problematic, since they often do not publish open source drivers at all or in a very limited fashion.
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I’m not sure why you think manufactuers of SoCs (or entire phones) - which aren’t used by Google directly (as in: used by Google in their own products or sold by Google as their own product) - provide drivers to Google. They don’t, because there is no point in doing that. This is not how the Android eco-system works or the business of selling those SoCs for that matter.
SoC manufactuers sell their SoCs to companies who want to build Android phones (or they build their own like Samsung). With those SoCs they provide a BSP (board support package) that includes all the bits needed to bring up a system running on that partricular SoC. Google has pretty much nothing to do with this, except that Google recommends a certain Linux kernel version (with a bunch of Android-specific patches) for a given Android version, which SoC makers often (but not always) use as the base for their customized kernels.
It is not like Google provides the operating system including all device specific drivers to the device manufacturers. They don’t care about that at all. They provide AOSP (which is open source, so anyone can get that) as well as their proprietary stuff like Google Play etc. That’s pretty much it.
There is a lot not to like about many Android phones (or rather smartphones in general), when it comes to their openness in regards to software. And it is perfectly fine to criticize those involved, but you should direct your criticism at the correct parties. Google isn’t the bad guy in this instance.
Why not force them to unlock root from the start?
Because people are stupid, will fuck up their device/s, and then complain to the manufacturer about how their device was ruined.
It’s an incredibly stupid argument, but it’s their argument nonetheless. Something something “for your safety/protection/security/etc”…i.e. “Trust us”.
I think root privileges should be available as well, but in a way that 1) only someone who knows what the fuck they’re doing can access, and 2) can be done entirely locally, without calling to a server controlled by the manufacturer.
Absolutely anyone can follow a guide to root a phone, I am an idiot and I have done it. The manufacturer should not be liable for me using the phone in a manner not intended and then breaking it, but they should absolutely have to make it available to do. It should only require signing away liability in a tick box.
Exactly, and this also ties into my first point that the people who know, know what to look for.
I’ve rooted/jailbroken every single phone and tablet I’ve owned over the last 15 years. I wouldn’t have it any other way. I cannot stand the artificial “security” blocks out in place simply because a company thinks rooted users are somehow cheating or committing fraud or what have you - the people who do that are gonna do it no matter what.
Rooting a device shouldn’t be any more complicated than having a sticker saying “warranty void if removed”.
I don’t disagree, however, there needs to be some form of security so the average Joe (or their kid) doesn’t accidentally press the wrong button and
rm -rfthe entire device (exaggerating of course, but you get the idea).my apologies, I was actually thinking of “unlocking the bootloader”, rooting a device without an unlocked bootloader didn’t even occur to me. And since unlocking a bootloader is non-trivial by design, that would prevent any such accidents.
Yes, of course, but I think, like I wrote it, it is more likely to happen in reality 😁 but of course, I would prefer from the start as well
Like just hide it in developer settings which as well are hidden. No noob should accidentally go there, but a malicious being may lead a noob there…
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Yeah, let’s have a go with the ACI (anti-coercion instrument) and see if we can’t make their patents free game. Playing to Trump’s tune is unlikely to work out well
You know jailbreaking isn’t illegal right? It’s the same is removing one of those void if removed stickers, you won’t get tech support anymore but who cares about Apple tech support?
Those stickers have no legal weight anyway, at least in the United States. The manufacturer has to prove that you damaged the device, whether the sticker is there or not. They can not refuse service just because a sticker is missing.
Isn’t it sometimes? Like if involved breaking something encrypted, I thought it was. And possibly other cases as well. At least in the US thanks to the DMCA and others.
It’s not illegal but manufacturers are making it harder to impossible. That must be illegal.
The real money is in AWS, azure,GCP. No one cares about your iPad. Tariff the big 3 hosting providers and see how quickly shit hits the fan.
Would probably end the Internet faster than China can cut intercontinental cables. I’m here for it but the fallout would be positively insane.
From the ashes maybe a better internet will emerge then. The current one is very dogshit and only going worse.
Where do I sign up for newgrounds 2.0?
There are plenty of providers, this is a little reactionary. I’ve worked with a local data center for hosting in every state I’ve lived in.
It’s not about the providers, it’s about the move. Companies will need to migrate their infrastructure to another platform which (let’s be honest) likely will not have the bandwidth / rack space / hardware to support the influx of users. Companies will self host? Okay sure: time to spin up internal clusters, train employees, provision additional bandwidth / connections. And naturally - this will all go off without a hitch. Like flipping a switch.
And we need to remember that many of these services rely on each other so one goes down: they take each other out.
Or they’ll just pay the extra money and avoid all that.
That is pretty much how the VMware situation shook out.
Yeah, we’ve got on-prem cloud hosting at a university, and moving away from VMware is an ongoing process. Still. Two, three years after the writing was on the wall. They’d rather pay the Danegeld.
I’d double my mortgage just to see microsoft365 crumble.
But you love teams right?! (get the gas can - I’ll get the matches)
There is no feature that is simpler than gsuite. So much duplication and needless services and apps.
I hate google and microsoft for making me appreciate their product.
I love to wish it on my worst enemies.
This is why you give notice; this isn’t an overnight thing. If anything, this would help strengthen and decentralize hosting platforms while giving a huge amount of business to companies to help them migrate. I think the real shake is going to be those locked into provide IP like Redshift or Fargate.
Notice or not any infrastructure change is brutal - even if you go like for like.
I’m not saying I’m against the idea: I loathe all the centralization and robber barons running around in this era. But switches like these rarely go as planned. If haste is required even less so.
Oh I get it. We made the jump from Google Cloud to AWS, and I’m sure there are companies that are even more vendor locked. But a good example of what people can do when they don’t have a choice is the new PCI 4.0 roll out that has cost companies millions they wouldn’t spend unless made to do so. Will it be a mountain to climb and cost a ton, yeah, but change in the right direction isn’t always easy.
I’m with you, it will be hard, and they need a good system for extensions and the like, with a reasonable time line. But this is good change IMO, even if it’s painful.
inertia is a thing, but just by having new EU projects avoid the big three you’d already have done a world of good to the IT ecosystem.
100%
Germany is providing an open source solution to gsuite (which I haven’t looked at yet) but am told it’s pretty good. More open and more choice is great.
That entirely depends on who deeply they’ve locked themselves into a single-vendor set of services. If they used an abstraction tool to hide vendor-specific implementation detail, and were moderately smart, it’d take little besides minor config changes, redeployment and some regression testing.
Source: I’ve done it.
This is mostly the problem in a lot of cases. A lot of companies don’t pay you to be smart… they pay you to be “efficient” which normally means cheap.
Good and skilled people may be in a lot of these companies… but their hands may be tied in terms of choices.
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Put a tariff on the companies that was pro-Trump, and who was at his inauguration.
Bonus: It might make some companies move to non-US hosters, making their data way safer.
I’ve switched to Hetzner and I’m super happy. Fuck DigitalOcean and their ever increasing prices.
I’m at Hetzner für 10-15 years now.
There’s also patent invalidation on pharmaceuticals
And legalize piracy of US-created media content such as movies and TV series.
Yes PLEASE
Break up Ticketmaster!
Maybe fix the Irish tax loophole first?
Done:
A slap on the wrist for two of the tech giants is great progress. I would consider this a start, but not done yet.
The linked article supports this as well:
Exactly. Never do anything until you can do everything all at once. If you can’t wave a magic wand and solve all problems everywhere, it’s best to just keep the status quo.
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Or, you know, do two things at once. It’s not uneard of for a huge governmental entity to be able to do that. And it’s stupid to repaint the ceiling when you have a leaky roof.
Yeah and make it 200%
This in combination with deregulating the single market and allowing EU tech startup to thrive would finally give birth to real competitors on our continent
GoEU
Pardon my ignorance but what does deregulating the single Market mean?
There is a big push from EU at the moment to reduce “red tape” to make it easier for business, see for example mastodon post from EC a few hours ago: ec.social-network.europa.eu/…/114280068967975617
Reducing things the way it should be done. Got it. Thank you
Nope. Nope-nopety-nope, leave this american bullshit where it belongs.
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hell, it’s about time
Should be two pronged - tariffs on cloud and other services while fostering competitive local alternatives. While it’s possible knock up a cloud out of anything there is nothing in Europe as coherent as the offerings by Amazon, Google or Microsoft. And there should be.
Show this to Varoufakis.
For now it’s a lot of mights and very few dids. Just make companies that are that huge to pay higher taxes to operate in the EU. It’s not a tariff is contributing their fair share to the social network of the EU. And ffs, reign in any country allowing these companies to operate in tax havens in the EU
Do it, the USA lost their industrial base to the shareholders and services is all they have. Let it rip!
FUCKING DO IT