Microsoft still can't convince folks to upgrade to Windows 11
(htxt.co.za)
from Pro@programming.dev to technology@lemmy.world on 12 Sep 07:31
https://programming.dev/post/37302876
from Pro@programming.dev to technology@lemmy.world on 12 Sep 07:31
https://programming.dev/post/37302876
cross-posted from: programming.dev/post/37265606
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I sidestepped to Mint. Sorry, Microsoft, your shit’s untenable and disappointing.
I did too on my laptop but on pc I’ll probably just stick with windows 10, I’d rather deal with security vulnerabilities then ai in my OS
Proton’s good, by the way. If gaming is holding you back, at least.
so good that i actually get more fps than i did so on windows
I tried but I should probably figure out how proton works and try that
Proton is integrated with the Steam app in Linux, so usually you just install the game and then run it from Steam and it just works in Linux even though it’s a Windows game, without you having to know anything about Proton.
Similarly you can use something like Lutris or Heroic which does the same for Wine and game stores like GOG (it’s even integrated with the store and downloads the game for you, same as the Steam app does for the Steam store).
For some games you might have to learn enough to tweak settings, though for Steam and Proton that’s often just changing the Proton version you’re using for a game in its game launch settings in Steam, which is hardly complicated.
The need to really understand what’s under the hood is generally only when leaving these standard paths: for example if you’re trying to run a pirated version of a game (which might even be for perfectly legit reasons: for example one of my Steam games won’t run in Linux no matter what I do, but the pirated version works fine, probably because of the DRM in the official version) or some old obscure game CD you have around, as the scripts in Steam, Lutris or Heroic that silently configure Proton/Wine correctly for a game might not at all exist for those unofficial or older installers.
Yeah that last paragraph really hit the nail as to why I struggle with Linux gaming, especially playing games I downloaded off itchio too
Thank for your advice though it is appreciated
If you’re willing to learn to use an atomic distro (meaning you can’t install stuff the normal way and the OS filesystem is read only), Bazzite is fantastic, has steam and proton pre installed and has been working amazing for me for a few months so far.
Yeah the thing is alot of the games I want to play arnt on steam so sadly that wouldn’t work out well for me, thanks for the suggestion though
You can normally add it to steam to see if proton will work, or if not, you could use heroic, lutris, or bottles, although normally if it doesnt work under proton and there isn’t a premade wine prefix in lutris or heroic, it will take some tinkering.
Which games are you worried about?
Pirated games or games downloaded off itchio mostly
Itch is a bit spotty if you don’t want to configure your prefix and it doesn’t work under proton, but pirated games work fairly well in lutris using the official versions prefix
Hmhmh I’ll try that thank you
Can’t you just download Lutris and tell it to run itch games via Wine? I have done that with one game from itch before but tbh it’s the only time I’ve tried it so it could’ve been a fluke.
Yeah I tried to run a number of games through wine and it was very hard to get anything running sadly
Aw man that’s a shame
Indeed
If you must use windows, and might want to upgrade to 11, lets say, for certain games, this project Flyoobe will help create a windows 11 install without all that bloat and ai
Thank you the link is much appreciated :D
But admit one of my major grips with windows 11 is it’s extremely ugly looking, and I don’t really think there is any way to remedy that
You can replace the default windows UI with an alternative shell like Open Shell (here’s a list). Not sure how reliable this works.
Mhmhmmmh I might try this thank you :}
I would recommend for people not to install W11 just for a tiny handful of games. Most work on Linux. If they want to specifically add things to make it only work on Windows you shouldn’t reward them by following along. Find better games to play.
The longer people play along with their game the longer they try to force people onto Windows. Until they are forced to support Linux you shouldn’t support them.
Yeah, well… When the kids want to play Valorant with their friends, it is hard to tell them that thats too bad, because they dont support Linux.
What if they had an Xbox and their friends were playing a PS exclusive game? Would you buy them the new console just so they can play that one game, or would you tell them that sucks but they can try to convince their friends to play a game that supports their system?
Wat? They already have a PC, Im not buying them anything, Im just not cutting away the thing that enables them to play certain games with their friends.
Sure, if it doesn’t cost anything and you aren’t giving anything up, fine. Keep doing what you’re doing. I don’t care. If you’re buying a game, reconsider. If you’re buying an OS, reconsider. If you are tired of having an OS that is literally malware that you don’t control and that is constantly advertising and spying on you, reconsider.
My point of the console example was that no, you won’t just put up with anything just to keep up. Have some boundaries. Stop just letting them push you around. The more you allow it the more they’ll do it. Once people actually start advocating for what’s best for them rather than what a corporation allows them to do then things will improve.
Thats a noble principle but it doesn’t really work when the game is an older or somewhat obscure one without much developer support left. Especially online games that have some fuckery preventing them from running via proton/wine.
I know it’s more of an edge case, but theres dozens of us holding onto some shitty 20-year old MMOs
Most older games work fine. It’s usually the newer ones that are the issue, with kernel level AC. For games to not work requires an active choice most of the time now. Of course, there are some exceptions.
Take their ESU extension to get one last year of W10 update. At least it gets you time to see if you can migrate on linux maybe.
Hmhm for sure
I’m planning on moving to the IoT edition of windows 10 when support ends. It’s supported till 2032. Hopefully by then the professional apps I need will be sorted out on Linux.
Look into 0patch.com
Keeps you secure without having to pay Microsoft another red cent
Thank you for this
That is what I am planning on doing as well. I am not going to install their ad-, bloat- and surveillance-ware.
Me too? I just switched a few days ago and I’m shocked how easy things have been.
Aside from some generic brand hardware I’ve got, most stuff just works. Main issue is not being able to use my Xbox controller wirelessly at the moment.
Get a 8bitdo wireless adapter, it’s better then native Windows support as well.
www.8bitdo.com/wireless-usb-adapter/
Bluetooth connect it then steam will automatically use steam input I believe.
Yeah my Bluetooth chipset isn’t supported by the drivers. It connects but isn’t detected properly. I’ll grab a dongle in future
I did the same and using Windows at work is slowly becoming unbearable.
Same! Even converted a couple of Surface tablets over as well. Id like to try Pop Linux on one of them just to see, but can’t get em to boot from USB.
Makes me miss windows 7.
xkcd.com/528/
I ran vista from release, never had any probmems with it. Admittedly it did help that I ran it on a brand new pc. Does show that the problem wasn’t the os but rather their aggressive push to get it on PCs that weren’t suitable
Windows 7 was peak. I still miss it.
It’s simply the best Windows. Like, it’s still not as good as Linux for anything a bit complex, but at least it’s actually usable, fast, doesn’t feature ads in the start menu, doesn’t have built-in AI shitware, and has a decent customization capability.
Aero was the prettiest UI, I held onto Win7 because of it until EOL 😢
How much of this is people not wanting to upgrade vs not being able to upgrade because their PC isn’t supported?
I have been called by friends, family friends, and their friends to help with this and so many have hardware that is not supported, and some are not able to afford a new PC right now. That’s my limited and personal experience about this.
I have reservations about installing Linux Mint/other for these people because I don’t have time to help right now and you do need sometimes help if you are slightly tech aware but not enough to be able to troubleshoot yourself or search for right info. For folks who barely touch any settings and just use it for docs + web it’s easy, but for others not always.
Microsoft is such an ass for doing this.
This was a really dumb idea to do just before tariffs
You can just bypass those hardware requirements fairly easily. There are a bunch of guides out there.
Here’s one from Tom’s Hardware. tomshardware.com/…/bypass-windows-11-tpm-requirem…
It even shows how to make a install media that doesn’t require the checks so you can just install it no issue.
Though fair warning that some of those requirements they have are good for security purposes so your installs may not be as secure without them.
Win 11 is still pretty ass though and bloated to hell. I instead got myself a LTSC version of Win10 instead which will get updates until 2032 or something like that. That gives me enough time to figure out if I want to install Linux or IDK I’ll just die before that, either one is fine.
Thanks for the links. I recall reading that installing windows 11 with bypasses might break after some future update? I just didn’t want to offer a solution that might cause issues as well.
For some linux was a good option, but for some I said you can either get a new computer or pay for the LTSC. Thankfully I was able to find some affordable win11 compatible laptops for their usecases.
Go visit massgraves.dev and run the ESU patch; that’ll get them another 3 years of security patching in W10.
That’s useful, thanks for the recommendation! I’ll have to check this out. Especially nice for those who can’t afford new PC’s atm.
Thank you, I was already familiar with massgrave.dev, but didn’t realise they offered this patch! Very handy!
You’re welcome!
Microsoft specifically warns people not to bypass Windows 11 requirements:
I’m a sys admin in the public sector and the hardware requirements of W11 are a great blessing. I couldn’t have convinced thousands of workers to switch to Linux and get used to another GUI but this forces it on us because there simply is no money to replace all that hardware. Rolling out Mint clients and between this and mobile operating systems Microsoft is finally losing its monopoly on the OS market.
Wait…
Excluding half of the active PCs or so from upgrade due to arbitrary hardware constraints didn’t push upgrading?
How can this be??? 😯🫢
It's not "arbitrary" I'd say. It's part of a long term plan to probably push a fully trusted platform. Yes, so they can ID you by hardware etc but also lock down driver installs and maybe even software installs one day.
This is why I hoard old computers
That’s exactly what arbitrary is. It’s not for a good reason, it’s so they can push bullshit later. The limitations were chosen arbitrarily because they’re not real limitations, they’re entirely imposed by a Microsoft for their own ends. A non-arbitrary limitation is like minimum graphics card requirements for a game - won’t run without it. What do you think arbitrary means?
Well, it's for a good reason in their view. Also, pretty much everyone here is not the normal computer user. The normal computer user is only dimly aware they use something called windows. The use a web browser and perhaps 3 other programs on their PC. They're going to be happy when they're told that having a walled garden improves their computer's security.
We are the minority.
No, they claim it is for a good reason to excuse it so they can get away with all the stuff they want later whilst hopefully (from their perspective) making more profit now. It’s the thin end of a wedge.
Stop defending corporations for anti-consumer behaviour. You do realise that YOU are a consumer as well, right?
You are misunderstanding their point. "Good reason" doesnt mean ethically good, it means there is a sound logical connection between the action they are taking and the outcome they want to happen. In that case Microsoft does have good reason to push trusted hardware, in the same way as a bank robber has good reason to buy a face mask.
I really feel like you should read my comment more carefully. I'm not defending them. I'm describing their rationale. My very last sentence should make clear I am not one of the normal users that will be happy and fine with this. I'm typing this, on Linux, right now.
Normal people don't care, and they would be happy with the thin veil of extra security they will gain (and be told they're going to gain), in exactly the same way the sales of the top tier mobile phones when they're boot locked and sideload locked will not dip in any meaningful way.
What actually is the hardware requirement here?
First major requirement is the presence of a recent TPM module, which is absolutely not required performance-wise, but only for DRM-reasons (and read that as “Digital Restriction Management”).
Second even more arbitrary one is that they excluded all CPUs before at least Coffee Lake generation. Perhaps half of the PC stuff people I know to be running at home is still from the mid-2010s, so practically completely pre-Coffee-Lake.
And the IT infrastructure of the e.g. the German executive government branches is on average probably more in the range of 15 years old. A surprising lot of that isn’t even fully switched to Windows 10 yet… (hey, at least we are increasingly migrating away from Telefax…!)
TPM is a good ideas but hardly seems like a requirement.
Microsoft should just tell OEMs they can’t sell windows pre installed without TPM hardware.
I agree that would have been the sensible way to go… Together with an “Install at your own risk” message when trying to upgrade a PC containing an older CPU…
I really don’t know what their reasoning is to enforce the requirements so hard for everyone.
It convinced me to ditch dual booting and to go full Linux
Same, now I have Win 11 in a VM but when I boot it I just apply Windows updates so I am booting it much less frequently now.
Why not just use bottle or wine?
That’s what I do, so yeah, very little use for Windows now.
I just went straight to Mint as I had another PC running W11, which I rarely used. And then when I had to use it, W11 would always force me to download a ton of updates that had no positive effects on the PC. After dealing with this about 5 times, I just converted that W11 PC to Mint too, so I’m 100% Windows free now.
I hope you have a good lamp then
If they just sold a very simple lightweight barebone version of Win 10 for 30-40 usd with regular security updates for the next 200 years, they could make so much money for eternity. Just sell those Apps/Widgets as additional paid apps, that is all you need.
But the app/widget spyware is what they want you to run.
True
Read the room, Microsoft.
My elderly parents got the "your computer cannot be upgraded" and my somewhat tech-litterate mom asked me to move them to Linux.
Microsoft should've realised at some point that the only thing most people need today is a computer that can run a web browser and connect to a printer.
I cannot the life of me get my Linux laptop to use my fucking Canon WiFi printer. It detects the printer, says it’s connected, but it simply will not send a print job to it. Windows, iOS and android all use it just fine…but this fucking Linux machine just won’t, I’ve spent hours fiddling with drivers and nothing works, it’s infuriating!
It wasn't canon in my case, but I found with other network printers on Linux that not bothering with "auto finding" and just putting the IP address in manually (give fixed devices fixed IPs on your router to make this kind of thing easier). Most desktop environments have a printer tool that should allow manually adding a printer.
I have to say with the work provided HP PoS I last had, it was equally as difficult to get windows to talk to it, to be fair.
Yeah I’ve tried the route of manually inputting a static IP, it will connect to the printer but it still fails to send jobs to the printer. I’ve resigned to just accepting that it’s incapable of WiFi printing with the HW I have, so I send documents to other devices for printing.
What’s the print make/model?
What flavor of Linux?
I had that same issue, what worked for me was manually removing the device which had been set up automatically because it had had been setup to only send jobs using the printer’s hostname rather than its IP which my home router did not support.
Try printer firmware update?
Yeah that sounds bad :/ All Brother here with no issues. Esp. Linux Mint just autodetects and sets everything up directly.
Mint detected my Brother but nothing could print until I downloaded a driver from Brother’s website. Buttery smooth since.
Needed to install drivers to get full features like double sided printing. However they are easy enough to install
I can get mine to speak to my shitberg printer, but I went and bought bootleg ink cartridges and I have a half-day printer battle on my to do list to reset the ink levels and force the printer to accept non-HP ink into its heart.
Can u tell ur model of printer maybe I can help I had fight a bit with canon printer too a bit but in the end it started working
I’d have to look at it when I get home, I have no clue off the top of my head.
I’ve been trying to get my MIL’s printer working forever.
Eh, my in-laws have the same problem… but on windows
Check if you selected the correct driver
We use a Canon at work, behind a print server called UniPrint, or some shit. I figured out how to use it to print from a USB drive long before I finally caved and mailed the guy who maintains it to ask how to get my KDE Neom machine to successfully send a print job. I figured out how to see it, I could check the toner levels, but I could not send a print.
Works now, because he changed a setting.
Bastard printers.
Ironically my fedora computer connected out of the box, but my wife’s windows laptop breaks the printer each time it tries to connect.
If there’s a firmware update available I have to manually update the printer firmware after her computer tries to print.
Mac and Linux work fine 100% of the time.
Let me tell you:
I’ve been using Linux exclusively since ~2010 and moved my mum over back when XP got canned. Printers always have been and still are the bane of my existence. From what I know from other people working in IT printers are always bad, however of course the driver support situation in Linux is so much worse. My mum used to have a Samsung mfp that would print in Linux (most of the time) but I could not for the life of me figure out how to get it to scan reliably. In the end I’ve set her up with a dual boot with a simple “click here to switch to Windows” button so she could scan in there (saving the scans to a NAS)
From my experience printers mostly either work or don’t work in Linux. If you are looking for a new printer I’ve only had food experiences with Brother. If you already have a printer and it’s not working right I can recommend sxouring through forums for that one wisdom of the ancients that can help (and possibly sacrificing a goat)
I bow also have a Canon printer (it was a gift) and with the official Linux drivers it worked for years. Recently it just wouldn’t print from Linux anymore till I switched the drivers to the generic “Guteprint” now it’s printing fine again …
Tl;dr: printers are evil and Linux drivers are sometimes making them worse
I swear to Torvalds, if the amount of old ladies using Linux because their Fedi relatives installed it on their laptops is accurate we are in the middle of an major demographic crisis.
For every one, there’s the younger relatively who installed it for them, so things are in perfect balance in the end.
My old printer got better support on linux than modern windows. HP has long since took the driver off their website.
I moved my MIL to Mint. It runs faster and she hasn’t had any issues accessing Internet and email.
It boggles my mind that tablets didn’t take over already as peoples “At home” devices
Funny how Kaspersky thinks what it comes down to are people who are afraid of change, when there’s also just people who are also not too happy with the direction Microsoft is taking their OS. And then there’s the fact that their stats only come from users who still use Kaspersky, which might be mostly businesses, instead of the average joe, skewing the data.
I moved to a linux-only system for about 5 years now, and it’s been great, as a daily-driver and a learning experience as well. Microsoft does so much hand-holding that it’s own users are not expected to care about security and privacy.
You will be shocked to learn that you can upgrade, for free, to Windows 12.
It's called Linux.
I’d go for Lunix, if the software I need for work would I run on it. Thinking about keeping Win 10 on a separate disk, since my laptop is not eligible for Win 11.
not trying to be one of those guys but trying to be helpful. What software for work do you need that won't work on a linux distro?
I mean wine/winetricks is pretty much to the point now where you can simply download an .exe or whatever, double click it, and it'll launch. I do this for several Windows only programs I have and they all work. And the thing with the Linux community is that there's always SOMEONE that will insist on getting the most obscure drivers working on it. I once had this dongle from like the early 2000s that would allow you to plug PSX and PS2 memory cards into it. I thought "yeah I'd like to use this again, no way it'll work on linux" and sure enough someone had actually made the drivers for it. I think it's only me and the guy who made the driver that actually use the thing.
Thank you for the reply. I need to run Rhino 8, and apparently it doesn’t reliably work through wine. It’s my main software I use professionally, and moving to something like Blender is unfortunately not an option.
would this work? https://github.com/cryinkfly/Rhinoceros-3D-for-Linux
11 was fine until they forced Copilot Vision on everyone. That was the straw for me to finally bail to Linux
They did what now? I have no Copilot features turned on in my PCs, and I actually have a certified Copilot+ laptop.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Recall
Not something “forced on everyone”?
Yes, that's toggleable on settings and set to off by default. Do remember to turn off Click-to-Do, though, if nothing else it's annoying to trigger it by accident. I also remapped the copilot button back to being right mouse click.
I mean, they're pretty useless features and I wish they had spent more time working on better stuff, but... you know, I turned it off.
Microsoft: he thinks it’s actually off lmao
I'm so exhausted of social media nonsense latching onto meme crap to push preconceived narratives and flipping over to ignoring reality altogether the moment any facts at all don't fit their dumb little package of memes.
You know what, I hope it's not actually off and anybody with the trivial means to check what their Windows PC is sending to the mothership notices so we can get the EU to GDPR the crap out of them and build some nice hospital somewhere with the fine money.
In the meantime, go do conspiracy theories over on Twitter. There's plenty of real stuff to be mad about at Microsoft without having to make shit up.
Hey buddy, it’s your PC, not mine. I’d just rather know a multi-billion dollar corporation isn’t spying on my every move than reckon they aren’t.
Microsoft has proven on multiple occasions that they really don’t give a shit about the word “no”, so if it’s worth it, by all means, bend over, cover your ears and keep taking it without any lube.
I mean, I'd rather not. I definitely take a number of steps to limit that. Same as I take steps to prevent that from Google on my phone or from both of them and others on my Linux devices.
What I don't do is make up stuff to be paranoid about in case the very real privacy concerns you already have to pay attention to aren't scary enough to make me feel superior online.
theverge.com/…/windows-11-microsoft-ai-features-c…
I don’t care how much Microsoft tries to assure me that a screen scanning and indexing software can be toggled off. I don’t want that kind of spyware on my computer at all.
Right, so when you said "forced it on everyone" you meant "the feature existing at all even if it's optional or disabled".
See, I don't have a problem with the latter, that's legitimate. But you implied the former, and the former is false.
Now, I don't like the feature and I absolutely turned it off the moment it (finally) got patched into my supported PCs. But it's worth noting that similar features are present on Android phones (from all the way back on Google Assistant to the upcoming Magic Cue), Apple phones (via Visual Intelligence and Siri) and other PC and phone manufacturers. I recommend turning them all off, but with the caveats you original omitted this isn't a Windows-specific thing, it's a pretty widespread fad.
Of course the reason people are latching on to the MS version is their initial implementation was hot garbage and entirely unaware of its own context, so now it's a meme, particularly in tech-savvy, Linux-friendly circles. The biggest lesson we've all learned is that Microsoft is bad at PR and marketing, which I feel we already knew.
Yes, that’s exactly what I meant. It’s malware on my computer against my will (or would have been, had I not switched). I’m not comforted that I can supposedly toggle the malware off. I don’t like it on any platform. Your dismissiveness and attempted normalization of corporate spyware is disconcerting.
I'd argue I'm doing the opposite.
I was turning this stuff off when my Google and Samsung phones kept suggesting that they could do searches based on the content of my phone screen or my camera feed. It's only "normalization" in that it's... you know, actually normal and widespread. I don't think people are too alarmed now, I think they weren't alarmed enough when the first wave of "smart assistants" started doing this like a decade ago.
Nah.
It was never fine.
WTF is this guy talking about? Far as I can tell this is the Win7 playbook all over again. Looking it up, this was the timeline:
That's almost a decade of post-end of support updates. If anything, MS confirmed ESU before trying to shut down home user patches this time, so it looks less like terrified backpedalling. And as the linked article itself admits, the data they're reporting on shows a significant number of users still on Win7. The article waves it away as just "too many", but the original report says 8.5%.
Because, as it turns out, the kind of people using Kapersky antivirus software and the number of people who would not upgrade from a 16 year old OS that has lost support half a dozen times over the past half a decade show significant overlap. In the Steam survey right now Win 7 is only 0.07%, for reference.
While we're at it Win 11 is 60% vs 35% for Win 10. For all the headlines when Steam shows Linux growth you don't often hear over here that Win 11 went up by 0.5% and Windows overall went up by 0.36%, although it's worth noting that Windows has been pretty stable between 94 and 96% since the survey started.
I've said it before and I'll keep reality checking it: the Win 10 end of support process has been wildly overhyped, particularly among Linux-friendly circles. It is not meaningfully different to moves out of other "good" versions of Windows and it's not a catastrophic crisis point for MS, for better and worse. They'll keep support up for the people who need it for as long as they're willing to pay and most legacy home users won't even know their old Win10 is unsupported because it'll just keep happily chugging along with all the same malware it already has until something breaks and they have to buy a new laptop with a preinstalled Win11 or 12 or whatever.
The most the Win10 death hype is doing to hurt MS is create a flurry of social media posts that can convince tech savvy, Linux-curious users who were previously held back by lack of gaming support to give user friendly distros a try.
Uh, sorry, we don’t allow sane takes here. Get out.
This person with their “logic.” Honestly.
I got your upgrade right…
<img alt="" src="https://aussie.zone/pictrs/image/d7800fb2-b3c7-4dc2-95b2-0133896b95ea.jpeg">
here
This is one guy you don’t see palling about with Donald Trump.
From memory this particular finger was directed at nvidia but I imagine he would accept both our comments.
.
Great OS, too bad most people aren’t savvy enough to tweak minor settings.
Dunning-kruger effect on full display right here.
.
Oh I thought Windows was discontinued after Vista failed miserably.
At least I haven’t used it since then, and it’s completely irrelevant to me.
Why others keep using it IDK, must be some kind of masochist tendencies.
Yea, people don’t use windows these days anymore, they just use iOS and Android.
Seriously, no joke, my parents have never actually used a computer. They just have a glorified pocket social media machine basically.
I thought Win2K was peak Windows, but I begrudgingly got comfortable with XP (using the classic Windows theme) then Win 7 after they ironed most of Vista's kinks out.
Been on Linux since then.
But it would be unfair to say that masochist tendencies aren't a requirement to be a Linux system owner.
All systems require some level of that. It's just Linux has been rushing towards "less masochism" and Windows even quicker towards "more", and we find ourselves at that sweet spot where they've the same level of requirement.
Frankly, I'd prefer this sweet spot to be more towards "less", so I'm hoping Linux continues its trend.
Linux as my main since 2005, I dual booted for a couple of years to play games, because gaming on Linux was too limited.
Now gaming on Linux is amazing IMO. But yes every system requires some level of masochism, I guess we could call Windows the OS of choice for the more advanced masochists. 😋
They’re not trying to get me to upgrade my OS, they’re trying to get me to buy a whole new fucking system for no good reason. Every last one of them can die in a fire.
And that’s before we consider that Windows 11 is actually a downgrade.
I’m upgrading to Debian 13 instead, since 13 is bigger number than 11 so obviously it’s better
@ZiemekZ @Pro it has a completely new #apt (still C++) so i guess yes :D
Way ahead of you on Mint 22 or something like that
Fedora 41 is like being decades in the future.
Arch’s version number is so large, it cannot be shown.
My first pc had windows 95 and it was indeed vastly better then todays corporate shite
Remember how much people HATED Win95? They still moved to it to escape DOS, but still. Loads of hate.
Not really, the prospect of getting my own computer at all brought immense excitement and i didn’t know what words like “operating system” and “software” even meant.
I can imagine it though since i got comfortable with using the terminal, a gui feels more and more like bloat.
I do, but that’s because windows 95 was a lot less stable than 3.1(1). It deserved the hate it got and wasn’t really ready until Windows 98 came out.
A good chunk of people went from 3.1(1) to 98.
Idk my Win98 crashed almost every day. It only stopped when I switched to WinXP.
The kernel change in WinXP really helped stability. It was certainly easy to have a bad install with any of them though.
Win98 SE was my personal “best experience” with Windows, with WinXP a close second. (Though this likely has to do with the hardware and tasks I was experiencing at the time.)
This is why I upgraded my Windows 10 laptop to a Fedora 42 one. 42 is obviously the biggest. And thusly better than Debian.
Just wait until you learn about Windows 2000
You’ll likely need to purge your Nvidia drivers after upgrading to 13, I had two machines fail to start NvidiaPersistence.d.service (or something like that) which caused the machines to fail on boot-up.
Reinstalled the drivers with
sudo apt install nvidia-driver nvidia-cuda-dev nvidia-cuda-toolkitif you’re looking for raytracing don’t forget to installlibnvoptix1.Jokin’ aside, I am thinking to upgrading to forky (14), if it gets newer Nvidia drivers, because of a single issue I have with Wayland on Plasma (that is X applications flickering like crazy). Alternatively upgrading just kernel and nvidia drivers (to testing or sid) if it is possible without breaking whole system.
Yeah, because if I did then in another 5 years it would be the same thing with Windows 12. Then 13. And so on. So I’m ditching Microsoft entirely in October and moving onto Mint.
Yeah, but in another 2 years it would be the same with Mint 23. Then 24. And so on… /s
Why wait? 😁 I made the move in May, and it’s been great!
I don’t doubt it, I’m just very stubborn and afraid of change
Same, honestly. I’d been putting off the move for a while, but some friends gave me the kick in the pants I needed to finally do it. And even then, I spent a few days booting from a flash drive (to get used to it and figure it out, of course) before finally committing. I’ve only booted into Win10 once since then, and that was to troubleshoot something on my Linux boot lol
Instructions on that installation method are here, if you are interested 🙂
…readthedocs.io/…/burn.html
Then maybe you will love debian. Imagine an OS that receives mostly security updates and changes very slowly, that looks the same after a decade.
There will be a drastic change in the beginning, when moving from windows, but after a while, you will see how stable things will get
The only reason I got a Win11 computer at work is that the new box came with Win11 preinstalled.
Most work is still done on an aging Win7 box and my Linux laptop.
they did convince me to upgrade to linux mint 22 tho
Looking at it from a perspective other than “Windows shit, use Linux”, MS’ biggest issue here is that the vast majority have no compelling reason to upgrade. Currently.
To the average punter, W11 offers nothing that W10 doesn’t already have. There’s no new technologies that they care about, no new tentpole software that they’re dying to try. Nothing. It has copilot running rampant through it, but most people don’t know what that is or don’t give a shit.
Give Apple their due, when they announce an OS update, they focus hard on the ways it improves over the current offering. Ways it can interact with your other devices, for example. Or even just a whole new design.
But MS advertise nothing beyond “This is new, come get it!”, then wonder why no one cares.
The biggest problem Microsoft has is that the biggest selling feature of Windows is its ability to be backwards compatible and run on older hardware. The fact that a good number of PCs that aren’t even 10 years old can’t even run it is the issue. Also, MacOS names for each update are unique and interesting. Windows 11 is a very uncreative name which has always been a problem with Microsoft; example: Xbox One…
I genuinely couldn’t tell you what the current gen Xbox is named, though to be fair I don’t really pay that much attention these days.
But yeah, Windows can’t really have much of a default theme update when there are a good four different window styles throughout the various settings panels.
Maybe it is worth saying that it isn’t that it can’t run on it, it is that Microsoft is trying to stop it from running on it. Two registry keys and 11 replaces 10 on anything 10 works on. But they don’t want to tell anyone that.
But the premise is sound: to the end consumer they hear “buy a new computer” while the old one works fine, and the new ones price is starting to climb…
A lot of people are also questioning why they even have a home PC now. Their Win 10 machine is “out of date” and they need to replace it or else, but their cell phone now does much of what their PC did. Instead of installing Linux and learning a whole new OS, they just cut out their PC and just use their phone.
There’s an entire generation that has never owned or used a “PC”.
They use a phone at home. Maybe a tablet for “big screen things” and that’s it.
A lot of them even work off of mobile devices these days.
Really? I thought it was supposed to run older software, I don’t think hardware comes into it.
Absolutely, a gazillion percent this. My main desktop doesn’t have TPM. I bought a cheap micro form factor Lenovo that I thought would run Win 11, but it didn’t. It had a 6-year old CPU and that wasn’t supported by Windows 11. 6 years old. I realized then that this eliminated one major reason to get a Windows PC over a Mac. I think that both Mac and Linux are going to make huge gains in market-share in the next months and years.
Great point. Their strategy at this point is holding a gun up to your hard drive and saying “upgrade now or your data gets it.”
I thought it was “we are upgrading now and your data gets it”
We’ve moved all of your data into OneDrive for your convenience, however you have exceeded your free OneDrive storage limit, please submit a payment immediately or the data will be deleted
They want us to upgrade to 11 so they can do that when they release Windows 12.
Given the Tick-Tock pattern of Windows OS and 11 being the
bad coptockThat honestly would probably get higher adoption numbers if for other reason than historical expectations.
Windows 3, 95, 98, Vista, 7, 8, 10, 11…
The weird thing is that Windows 10 broke that model. It always used to be that the even-numbered Windows versions were worse (after, let’s say, Windows 2000): ME (#4)? Bad. XP (#5)? Good! Vista (#6)? Bad. 7? Good! 8? Bad. 8.1 (#9)? Good! But then Windows 10 came out and threw the whole rhythm off.
You could pretty reasonably argue that 8.1 wasn’t a true version, and thus Windows 10 was the 9th version of Windows, but that just means that 8 was the combo breaker by becoming good eventually. In either case, Windows 11 being bad restores the bad version/good version rhythm.
As a non windows user, I don’t get to interact with Microsoft systems an awful lot, but to me windows 10 felt like a complete system while windows 11 always feels like an early beta for some reason. It has some kind of unfinished, wet paint quality to it.
I don’t really use Windows these days. Mostly in a VM to make sure something I’m fiddling with is compatible for the poor folks at work who have to use it. So I can’t say I have any real opinions on 11 one way or the other. I couldn’t really point to one thing that’s vastly different or improved.
I guess, from that point of view, 11 feels mostly like it’s MS adjusting the OS to better suit their revenue stream, rather than improving workflows for the consumer. Which it is, I suppose.
Ironically, Windows users have generally felt that way with every new Windows version after 7. Vista was painful for a lot of people and 7 was basically Vista but with the problems finally fixed, and every version since then people have complained that the newest version feels unfinished.
And in a lot of ways they have been. In 10, there are at least 2 different UIs for navigating the system and settings. Some options have been migrated over to the newer one, some only exist there, and some still only exist in the old version of the settings. And then 11 made it even worse by moving a number of frequently used options in the right-click menu into a second menu that you have to open after you right click.
People hated 10 at first, too, but by now they’ve gotten used to it and Microsoft has ironed off most of the rough edges people hated. But it’s been building for years and this pattern has seemingly hit some kind of breaking point with the present-day circumstances.
And also, please correct me if I’m wrong, but whenever Apple releases a new MacOS version they don’t put fullscreen nag messages on your machine…
They do not. Yet.
I literally can’t. And I’m not buying new hardware just to make the switch.
What?! Are they not emphasizing that the start menu has moved from the left of the screen to the middle of the screen? Really seems like that alone should hook people.
They should advertise the new feature of not being able to put the task bar on any side of the screen you want! “We’re improving your experience by making it worse!”
And no Toolbars on the taskbar anymore.
You forgot to mention the great new start menu feature that makes it spike the CPU when you merely click it!
I sidestepped the win11 artificial requirements, and things are great.
Help! Our unsustainable behavior of screwing over customers in the name of quarterly profits has finally caught up to us! Turns out there are long term consequences of our behavior, and now Linux can truly go toe-to-toe with Windows on a home desktop!
I can’t wait for what comes first. The claudication and predictable extended support or the wave of malware paralyzing half the world over unsecured devices.
I think the latter is more likely. The former will only occur once MS is compelled by something that will force them into support mode, like a government or a lawsuit.
For anyone that refuses to downgrade win10 to win11 and still wants to be secure running windows, 0Patch will cover your computer for 25eur/computer/year.
I’ve never used them, but a security researcher I follow regularly promoted them since they’ve been doing this for systems for a good while (I think win7 was the first one they did) and are able to apply their micropatches in memory.
Definitely worth a look if you don’t want to upgrade to Linux while not downgrading to win11.
Or just get the IoT enterprise edition. Support for many more years straight from MS. Or better yet try Linux.
You can also get extended service updates from Microsoft for at least a year. $30 for up to 15 computers, although there are also a couple of ways to get then free. 1000 bing rewards points, or enabling Backup to sync your settings to OneDrive are supposed to both means to get them that will become available soon.
But they managed to convince people to switch to Linux
I got Windows 11 just because my work pc was Win 11. I learned where everything got moved. I use Bazzite Linux at home now. Loving it. Learned a lot and I’m still learning. Now I need to learn how to overwrite Windows 11 with an older version without fudging my GRUB (again, I really don’t like having to fix that thing)
Hot take here, but I think both Linux and Windows suck. I’m just picking the poison most suited to my needs on each computer
then get a mac or bsd?
This is basic life philosophy. Nothing is perfect, but you can choose which problems you want to deal with. Linux presents the least amount of struggle to fixing the problems it gives me, so I use Linux everywhere.
For me, linux only presented a few problems as the beginning, but became rock stable with time. I don’t even remember the last time I had to stop my work to deal with issues in my pc
Have the not learned anything? In 30 years of windows releases???
To get customers to upgrade, they have to release Windows 12. We only upgrade every other major version, because every other major version is terrible. Including W11.
That every other version thing hasn’t been true for a while now. Every version after Windows 7 has been terrible.
This “ackchually, Win10 is good” revisionism that appeared when 11 released is infuriating. When 10 came out, everyone hated it, and now that something even worse exists, somehow the old shit became good?
To be fair, Windows 10 has some meaningful upgrades compared to 7.
But with all those advantages, came many downsides as well:
.
That is such a dumb clickbait title made to be fueled by emotions.
Who are those folks that can’t be convinced? Because it sure as hell aren’t the businesses who are moving all their Windows 10 PCs over to Windows 11.
Do they mean the consumer users? The ones who would still be on Windows XP if it weren’t for Microsoft forcing their updates? Who only update when they get a new computer and postpone every update because they don’t care about being on an insecure OS?
The ones who could be convinced already are on Windows 11. The rest Microsoft doesn’t care about. Yes, this includes Linux users.
Well, we are talking about half the active PCs still running Windows 10 instead of Windows 11.
That’s a lot more than just the few “I don’t care”-people.
Instead it consist mainly of the “I don’t have the means” people, that don’t have the Hardware required to upgrade and also not the money to quickly change that.
Microsoft screwed up here. There simple was no need to demand such harsh hardware requirements and especially no need to enforce them that hard.
I have to firmly disagree - I mean Apple changed their whole cpu setup to force upgrades didn’t they…
Also it is over 10 years old, that’s a good run. Has nothing to do with tight ass business owners who are turning to AI and using the money there instead has it?
The hardware requirements are not that harsh. People simply believe they are. Intel rested on its laurels for 10 years and then people are like, oh I need a new setup my cpu won’t run Win 11!
Well there is a big difference between switching the CPU architecture altogether and just arbitrarily declaring a slightly older CPU with the exact same instruction set to be “outdated”.
Also, the customer profile of Apple users and Windows users is somewhat different. You won’t find a lot of Macs at normal peoples homes in e.g. Indonesia…
and? Saying it has the same instruction set shows you actually don’t understand what is needed to run win 11. Of course you can force an upgrade as well. But people seems pissed at Microsoft but give Apple a free pass for being far more manipulative, and again Intel here is the reason as they were so shocking for years Apple decided it could and has done a better job!
TPM is not needed either, it’s an arbitrary restriction.
I said you can force an upgrade and not need tpm, but you’d like to argue about something that helps security? Really? The x86 instruction set is widely varying, you can run win 11 on older hardware but it doesn’t perform well. I guess that is something many don’t like but it is the same across the board and also with pretty much any OS. Hating upon Microsoft seems to be a popular thing on the fediverse though, and it is one of the things that ruins what could be a great resource
kde plasma runs better than 11 as it’s user interface was not created with web tech.
but my concerns about 11 are rather the further erosion of user privacy, on more fronts than just recall. automatic bitlocker encryption is also not something I can stand behind, several people lost all their data needlessly because of it.
And that would be?
x86 processors are fairly standardized, I don’t see anything that could be the reason for such exclusions…?
The upcoming macOS Tahoe still supports some Intel Macs from 2019.
Win 10 launched in 2015, and your point is? 6 years v 10… not really comparable is it in any shape, way or form…
I bought a used PC specifically to run Windows 11. It had a 6 year old AMD Ryzen CPU which turned out not to be supported so I returned it.
That’s worse than Apple. If hardware could run Windows 10 it absolutely could also run Windows 11 if it weren’t for completely arbitrary requirements.
oh boo hoo! You were sold something and it wasn’t compatible? My heart bleeds for you…
The absolute stupidity of half of the people on here, the blind hatred. It is like going back to school again, it really is… and yet here we are, and those same petty users wonder why people don’t stay here and they continue to be exactly the same. This is exactly why here will become like Myspace and Nokia
Microsoft was successful in convincing me to upgrade to Mint however.
Me too. Had been wanting to switch to linux for some time and Windows 11 gave me the final push and it went a lot smoother than expected.
I just can’t be fucked. I have win10 on my laptop that I boot once a month to run some windows programs but other then that I don’t care about it. The only reason I see myself upgrading is to maybe know how to help my relatives with their windows 11 problems.
Depending on what you’re running on it or how you connect it to the Internet or your home network, you’re going to be at more and more risk as time goes on.
What’s the harm in upgrading now, especially if you barely ever use it?
I hate win 11 and there’s a lot of downsides to running it, but they’re going to quickly become a minor issue when compared to the risks of running an unpatched OS that is that huge of a target for exploits. Just trust me on that, the risks are going to get more and more real because attackers KNOW there’s a huuuuge number of businesses and consumers that just won’t upgrade and they’re frothing at the mouth to take advantage of the next few years of opportunity.
There’s a version of Windows 10 called LTSC (long term servicing channel) that will continue to receive patches, just no new features, that you can stay on for probably the length of time you’ll have that laptop. Since you barely use the laptop it’s probably perfect for you. You can easily find out how to obtain and activate it for free, securely, with a simple search - I won’t link to it here. One of my servers is running it because it’s old hardware and runs software that requires windows. It’s a really good option for people that don’t want to or don’t have hardware that supports 11, but want something secure and functional.
The best solution to your relative’s Win11 problems is a Linux live boot disc. ;)
What bothers me is that I’m getting all this “upgrade to windows 11” crap from other companies, like my antivirus. I get that eset reason to tell me about possible security risks to my computer, but I’d prefer if they give me options for addressing it that don’t involve dealing with a new OS, especially the win 11 dumpster fire.
Hahahahah. “Upgrade.”
Microsoft’s new OS has never been a concern of mine. I still have a windows XP, Vista, and windows 7 PC’s. They all work fine but zero security updates of course. You don’t need to upgrade your OS and most people will simply just keep windows 10 instead up buying a new computer.
I’m just going to setup dual boot with linux since i have some modding and custom software that only works on windows.
Switched to PopOS on my desktop and Mint on the ancient laptop my gf had laying around. No real complaints. Games run fine. Browser runs fine. I had some trouble getting mint installed on the old laptop, but the internet had a solution.
I think the install process is kind of daunting for many users, but once it’s going I think the average user won’t have any problems. Windows, by contrast, is kind of aggressive with its “GOING TO UPDATE NOW” and “don’t you want to use one drive???”
$10 says a future win10 update includes a killswitch. If it hasn’t already
Killswitches are useful. Windows does not feature useful things. Am I missing something?
Explain how a killswitch that let’s MS remotely disable your system is useful for anyone but MS.
I guess that is what I missed. I thought this was like the killswitch on those degoogled phones. I have been meaning to switch my last computer off Windows. Gotta build my DietPi server first though.
Ten against says they walk it back and keep updating Windows 10 once they get as much corporate upgrade money as they can
I use Win11 on my main computer for work and school reasons. I need maximum compatibility and reliability and it has met those goals. Back in the day, I used to use Linux on my old laptops and I dual-booted it on my main PC. It has been awesome seeing how far it has come and I would like to get back into it some day.
That being said, a huge barrier for Linux and prospective new users is the community. The Linux community is highly combative and toxic and it absolutely sours what should (and could!) be a great experience. Almost every interaction I had while troubleshooting had some level of condescending attitude or outright hostility and there were numerous times I was directly insulted for asking for help - the most recent being a couple years ago when I was trying out a distro and had sound driver issues.
I have to say, I’ve only been using Linux for maybe 2 years now, and my experience regarding the community has been the exact opposite.
Especially on this site, everyone is very kind and helpful.
That is also my experience. People are certainly opinionated which could be interpreted as hostility in some cases, but most people are willing to share and help when someone less knowledgable have gotten stuck with something.
100% this. The Linux community seems very hostile to people trying to learn. The amount of times I’ve looked something up just to find a thread answered with “learn how to use search” or people just being outright mean to someone who is just figuring the basics out…
The year of the Linux desktop is never until the community gets its toxic shithead problem under control.
Been using Linux for 20 years. Never had this issue. Maybe I just did not notice due to the expectation of people being shitty in general.
Edit: Out of curiosity, what distro caused you this issue, or just all Linux help in general? I am an engineer and it is always people who can’t find their ass with both hands who are the most arrogant. I could see this happening on a beginner distro more than some of this obscure shit we use.
Sorry for the delayed, haven’t checked Lemmy in a bit. This is a topic I very much want other perspectives on.
It’s not distro specific, more so when I’m looking for help with specific issues that are often not distro specific. I don’t really post to ask, I look for solutions first and then ask after exhausting all other options.
Doesn’t really matter where I end up; some distro’s forum, Reddit, Stack Overflow, Lemmy, etc. I always end up finding dickheads telling the OP to learn how to use search or berating them for not understanding the issue enough to provide the exact information they want (yes, they can’t help without the right info but they don’t have to be dicks about it). Or they’re just super condescending when giving an answer. I tune them out and scroll past for the actual answers, but they’re there in a good chunk of posts I find.
I can see how it would be incredibly discouraging for someone making the leap for the first time. Tech communities often forget how little the average user knows about computers.
.
Minor inconveniences like HAVING TO BUY A WHOLE NEW FUCKING COMPUTER.
These people live in a fantasy world.
What? Don’t you guys have money?
Just stop being poor, duh!
Other minor inconveniences may include:
Left out being nagged to death about other products and services microsoft thinks you should buy.
Oh but that is a feature!
The virtual machine I installed windows on to play games with kernel-level anticheat and other such spyware apparently isn’t compatible with windows 11. That’s a positive for 2 reasons, which are:
10/10 experience, would not give give Windows access to bare metal again.
Can you do this with a single GPU?
Yes but it is very janky, it is barely better than a dualboot.
Also most kernel anticheats will bark when they detect they are running in a VM.
And bark at the moon
Win 11 launcher is pure shit.
I upgraded from Windows 11 to EndeavourOS. No regrets, it’s a huge improvement.
Literally got a full screen pop up in the middle of work reminding me, that I, in fact, can’t upgrade to Windows 11. Like no shit, I turned TPM off for that very reason. You’d think Microsoft would expect me to know at this point as this was the upteenth reminder hijacking my entire screen. I’m sure I’ll get more of them.
Had to use Rufus to even install it on a ThinkPad which works perfectly. Drivers and all.
Maybe they should stop trying to be like Apple. You can’t limit upgrades then complain about no one upgrading.
They’re not limiting it because they’re worried about performance or drivers.
They’re limiting it because they want to force people into SecureBoot, TPM, and CPUs with several remote control management firmware, because this way they’re one stop closer to a fully closed down chain from boot to OS which allows for aggressive DRM and no escape from their ecosystem. Just like at how iOS works and the path Android has been going for the last five years.
The fact the PC ecosystem is open is a left over from the origins in the era before capitalism realized that trapping people into their digital landscapes was profitable, and they have been trying everything to make this go away. Microsoft’s wet dream is your PC becoming the same as your smart TV: a data harvesting, ad filled generic piece of hardware that can only display what they want you to see.
.
It’s not even about profits, they have all the money and leverage in the world, that’s the point of a fiat state mandated and backed currency. It’s about control and censorship and brainwashing. They want to make sure you only have a few corporate controlled choices. They want to make sure your children are being brainwashed by their algorithms and the influencers they support with their ad revenue.
I have zero faith anyone on here will have anything nice to say about Win 11. But it is fine, no issues here and never have had any. Here in the UK it is Windows in the workplace or windows, so pointless for me to try and support clients without a Win 10 and a Win 11 box. Win 7 has been gone for years for most. It is also Office everywhere in the workplace too, nothing else gets a look in, with some businesses having a smattering of non Microsoft products. The reality is that plenty of people will happily drop a grand on a new phone but only want to spend like £200 on a business laptop they have to work on, because, well it is only work innit. So many people refusing to spend money on work computing needs and would rather watch the laptop slowly grinding its way through things because they can then blame THEIR poor output on a shit computer
Not sure why you’re downvoted as you are mostly correct.
I’m a linux user myself but i work for an msp so i manage corporate windows machines, and they mostly work just fine. But i must admit, when i take over a screen and i see the constant nagging to use a microsoft account, or onedrive, or copilot (granted, when you use Microsoft for corporate use you really have no choice but to use a microsoft account) It does make me glad i use Linux.
And our devices are almost always over $1000 so not exactly cheap machines either :)
Sorry I’m confused, what UK workplace requires people to use a laptop but expects them to buy it with their own cash? O.o
I have windows 11 because it came with a new pc. The damn thing crashed so much it reminded me of bad windows from the old days. Don’t get it YET if you don’t have to.
Windows vista. Shudders
I successfully upgraded from Windows 10 to Linux Mint.
I can’t help but feel like there is some confirmation bias going on here in these numbers. Someone who still uses Kaspersky after all of the Russian government allegations is probably someone who also doesn’t care if they can’t update to windows 11 because they don’t intend on spending more money for security patches.
beatings will continue until morale improves
Replace that with “will never”…except at work because most* CEOs are stupid.
My work upgraded to Windows 11, now I have lag for a right click menu to appear, and once it does individual items (like Open with Notepad++) just show up as “Loading…” for several more seconds.
Yeah, that whole thing is just such a waste of time. Microsoft is trying to trap as many companies as possible like Google did for individual people in gmail.
I think its
I mean… they force to upgrade people to OS with critical SSD issues.
No no no, you have it all wrong. Microsoft said it wasn’t their fault!
Please ignore the fact that you can fix the issue by rolling back the windows update that causes it.
Stop forcing shit no one wants on your users then!
Every fucking update… Hey let’s backup your stuff. Hey wanna backup your stuff? Let’s backup your stuff! We totally won’t hold it hostage if you stop paying us lol!
🤬
I’m glad I’ve done away with Windows and Word/ office products for a very long time. Good riddance
Have they tried not being spyware?
Imo, even taking away the spying thing, windows design is just awful and they somehow manage to pile up fuckups and poor choices as they release new OSs.
It pretty much comes down to wanting to monetize the user experience instead of simply wanting to charge for the OS in the traditional way. The user becomes the commodity instead of the software.
They do charge in the traditional way for the OS.
They also charge the OEMs.
They just want more. The line must always go up.
Once again, the stock market ruins everything.
Hence why I went with “simply charge for the OS”. They are moving from monetizing the software to monetizing the user.
But yes, red line must go up
The official support for Windows 10 ends on Oct 14, 2025. Give new life to your old computer. Save money and install Linux: endof10.org
You can get extended security updates until October 2026
why should I pay for something that Linux gives for free?
You can buy extended security updates, if you are using a Microsoft cloud account to sign in.
It didn’t cost me anything. I enabled windows backup to “qualify” but since I don’t use even the free one drive for anything, it’s just like 6 old college files in there. It didn’t touch anything else and enabled the updates so idk.
I’m talking out of my ass, but I believe they couldn’t really convince the non-techies to upgrade from 7 & 8 to 10 either.
The average Joe doesn’t give a shit. They simply booted their computer one day and oops, it had upgraded itself to 10.
Microsoft could have almost this entire userbase on 11 by now without them even knowing thanks to 10’s automatic updating, but nooooooo they just had to require TPM or some shit.
I’m a little out of date in my tech knowledge, but I built my current PC, built them all, always had enough knowledge to just get my shit going. It’s a 9900k so I got a do the bios thingy to make it work with 11, but I just haven’t gotten around to doing it. I know it’s not a big deal, but here I am. I even did something in the bios not too long ago trying to use Docker to host a Minecraft server for my kids.
And so yeah, if I didn’t have to TPM, it’d be over and done, but I’m just dragging my feet, and will presumably continue to do so. Hey, maybe they announce a moving of the deadline, I feel like that’s been a thing in the past.
And let me just get out ahead of this: I have a proprietary software that only works with Windows. I’m in a niche field. I’m also not so aggressive about the whole OS thing, it works fine for me. I turn on computer (who am I kidding, it’s on 24/7 for literally every) and it starts up quickly, does what I need it to do, etc. I have laptops with 11 and they do the same. I turn off the stupid copilot features, do some light tweaking here and there, as I’ve been doing since XP, and it works.
I am admittedly interested in the Linux, but my interest in using my computer is not what it was back in my teens and early 20s, and so I just don’t care.
What did you have to do to use a 9900? It’s supported, oldest supported is 8th gen.
Unfortunately I don’t have a receipt in my email for it because I bought it at MicroCenter, got a really good deal on it. So I can’t remember what gen. I think I just need to enable the TPM thingy in the bios, but that it was specifically the processor that was the issue. All this is beyond me, I’m in following instructions mode and not inherent knowledge mode.
A buddy of mine has the same, we bought them together, so I know it’ll work, I just need to do the work.
That’s probably right, enabling Tpm. I’m still on 10 and will move to Zorin, already have it setup and tested, just haven’t moved data over.
That happened to my mother. Now she wants me to fix that shit and I just tell her I don’t know how to.
I kind of thought that was the only real difference with 11: requiring the tpm
No, they made a lot of working shit worse and a lot of new, invasive shit required.
Microsoft ‘Convinced’ me to move to Linux, best move I’ve ever done.
They allow you to enroll in extended updates so you can get more time to upgrade 🤣
It was so unconvincing I switched to Linux
I have had Linux for more than a year now, a universal blue managed one, I have forgotten what updates are even. Games play great, coding is super easy. Windows only exist because consumers are ignorant, but that can be said about most of capitalism.
Even if I had wanted to upgrade, I wouldn’t be able to, since Microsoft needs hardware mg computer doesn’t have. I can’t imagine most people would care enough to even think about that. They’d just keep using the computer until it no longer worked, and in the modern day, that will take a lot longer than it would have a decade or two ago.
I mean, it’s windows 10, but worse
If you have 8gb or less of RAM, it’s constantly swapping and trash your SSD
It always needs to automatically install the fucking updates in the background hogging the CPU and SSD time when you actually need to work/play
When they introduce bugs, they take years to fix them. The taskbar took 3 years to be restored to features that were present since windows 95. One year ago they introduced a new bug that with some display port monitors, when it goes in standby, the resolution switches for a second to 640*480, trashing all windows and desktop layout, super infuriating. Probably this will be fixed in windows 12
Plus with all their decision to force people to trash millions of perfectly working computers… I know many they just give up on personal computers and just use phones/tablet as it’s enough for them
It’s the new Windows 8.
At least we could skip w8
I’m grateful. It was the push I needed to stop using windows.
If they’d made it even vaguely tempting I probably wouldn’t have bothered.
The updates are off the fucking charts. Constantly updating/breaking services and apps are useless literally until you reboot. They really took the “reboot will fix it” and ran as far as they could go.
Four updates (and consequent reboots) in one week. Wtf
Imagine having to tell hundreds of clients you have to reboot your computer at least once a week for it to work. Fucking pathetic.
I don’t have to imagine. I literally do this. Is pathetic. I’m over here with my fully update Linux box that I hadn’t had to reboot in months, telling windows users to reboot “at least once a week” and that “shutdown is not the same as reboot”.
Android phones are picking up this reboot trend also… 😐
Google Android, maybe. AOSP ROM, not so much.
Oh I forgot about the shutdown not actually processing updates. Lmao. What a clown show.
Mandatory secure boot is the thing. Before I get a new motherboard and CPU I’ll just get Linux. Gaming works great there, and those 3 things I actually need Microsoft for can be used in a VM
Why the FUCK would I do that? Just to give microsoft more money? Go and FUCK yourself.
Don’t forget AI shoved down your throat that takes goddamn screen captures without any care of what sensitive infor,ation may be displayed and processes it to reme,bet everything your do. It’s goddamn 1984.
Microsoft also works with American intelligence, like other corporations. They won’t even fix zero day exploits without first letting the NSA know in advance. Telecoms have black rooms whose entire purpose is to siphon data directly to the authorities, Microsoft probably has a whole building.
Time to upgrade to Linux.
endof10.org
Cool site! Didn’t know it existed, and I was pleased to see that there are people out there willing to “fingers on the keyboard” assist those who want to switch but don’t know how.
they will try to force it for people that isnt saavy enough to use another OS,.
I’m one of the few whose laptop is about 10 years old so it needs replacing. Most likely a new laptop will be preloaded with windows 11. Do they sell laptops pre-loaded with Linux?
Installing linux yourself is dead easy. I would just buy a Windows laptop and wipe the drive
I don’t want Microsoft to have the win of selling even 1 license.
Buy refurb then, it’s what I did and it’s super fast. Returns are diminishing these days and your money will go further.
It was already quite doable in late 1990s Suse, although it took a day and you actually had to read the book it came with. The partitioning was annoying and confusing for a first-timer, and the default packages were also lacking. Now, not harder than Windows.
There are some companies that sell hardware with Linux pre-installed. The bigger companies that do are Dell and Lenovo. Maybe some others I am not aware of. If you want to support a smaller company that also sells Linux preinstalled, you should look into System76 and Framework. I would not be surprised if there are others as well.
If you are feeling up to it, I think it’s a great idea to watch some videos regarding installing a Linux distribution on your own and doing it that way. It isn’t very difficult (You may have to adjust some BIOS settings for example) and many distributions guide you in keeping a windows install and Linux install at the same time dual boot style if you want a back up Windows install. It will be a good first step in learning a little about how Linux works so you can figure out any issues more easily if they happen to come up.
I switched to Linux primarily last year, and other than some distro hopping to find my right fit, I haven’t looked back and I don’t plan on it.
Last time I checked, admittedly years ago, I was irritated at paying the same price as for the windows version of the same hardware. Why do I still need to pay the Microsoft tax and who’s getting it?
Thanks!
Depending on your budget, there’s the Framework laptops.
Edit: I want to add… What I did, was go to an opshop, get a laptop there, and wipe it for Linux. I got a decent laptop at a decent price, saved a little on ewaste for the world, helped a local opshop make a little money, and not contributed to any corpo greed.
At the lower end of the budget you could consider libreboot - it’s a one person band who ships refurbished Lenovo thinkpads with Linux pre-installed
What’s a opshop?
Opportunity Shop. A thrift or consignment shop.
You can get a laptop with no OS preinstalled just about everywhere.
I remember hearing about System76 a while back. They manage Pop!_OS which comes preloaded on their stuff. I don’t know much more than that. If you are mainly looking to replace your laptop because you don’t want to switch to 11, you could always try out Linux on it with a live USB. Basically you format a thumb drive to act as a boot drive. There are resources online on how to do it and it’s pretty simple. It doesn’t mess with your current install. If you like it, you can fully install it later.
eBay has tons of off-lease/refurbished computers for pennies on the dollar. Hard format the drive, install your distro, and you’re off and running.
That’s roughly what I’m hoping for: Former top of the line 7th gen CPU ThinkPad, such as a P51 or P71, might become really cheap as soon as the small Linux used hardware market is satiated when Win10 support ends.
For me, that’d be a massive upgrade :-)
System76 has laptops with Pop OS
I have win 11. I only use it as a steam game machine and sometimes vr games.
If I’m ever required to reformat I’ll probably try IoT Enterprise LTSC. Unsure how video game friendly the version is though.
Just go SteamOS or Bazzite. Make shit easy on yourself.
IIRC vr is still a bit of a mess on Linux.
Steam vr sucks. I got Monado working alright with a bunch of fiddling around, though I don’t use fbt so no idea how well that part works. I’m using an index btw.
Only unsolved issue I have is that I can’t get steam vr to update my base stations.
IoT Enterprise works just fine. That said, I still don’t trust Microsoft - it still insists on forced updates and reboots, and likely AI, down the line.
I am figuring on switching to SteamOS Desktop, once that is released.
IOT Enterprise LTSC fully works for running Windows games. It just doesn’t have a lot of the bloatware. I’ve tried it and I’m dual booting with Arch.
If it is just meant as a steam machine, I recommend looking at Nobara for Nvidia GPU and Bazzite for AMD GPU. I will admit that I haven’t tested vr games yet.
Personally, I’m maining Arch and it plays most games in HDR at 4k 120Hz. My Windows is so I have access to Microsoft Office.
Curious: do the webapps of Office not suffice?
Not if you need custom error bars on a scatter plot in Excel.
They can’t convince me to switch to Win 11 because apparently my computer isn’t good enough.
If you use Rufus to create a USB stick, there is an advanced option to disable the TPM check. So it’s just an extra checkbox.
For me, my computer is eligible one day, and then incompatible the next. Switchin like that for a couple weeks now. Linux here I come I guess.
I’m poised… might try a dual boot first.
I forced a win 11 upgrade on my old Lenovo laptop and it’s been running mint 🤟
ASTER
I converted to Linux as soon as one of the shit Windows 11 updates bricked my 5-year old laptop that was working fine previously.
Kubuntu 4 lyfe! ✌️🤪
*Downgrade
Win 11 is a downgrade.
.
Windows convinced me to upgrade to Linux :D
I moved to Linux thanks to their enshittification. I’m kicking myself I didn’t do it years ago. Linux is how an OS should be.
Welcome to linux bro
I think Linux has also improved immensely. There are so many more things available that weren’t an option even a few years ago. Not to say it was bad, but it wasn’t something most people could seemlessly do. Now it kinda is.
My work computer is on W11. Notifications got much worse, and moved to a harder-to-reach shortcut. There’s a persistent bug with maximization, in which many forms of apps will suddenly take over the region normally reserved for the taskbar (no, I’m not referring to full screen modes) that so far as I can tell can only be fixed by logging out.
The UI is worse, making settings pages even more confusing. Windows Explorer has dived deep into iconography, while still not being clear about what those icons mean. The new context menus are missing options, so they need an extra one to go back to W10’s options.
This is of course setting aside their blatant lies about “It’s not spyware we promise we promise”, among so many other hundreds of problems. I’m doomed to stay on W10 for now to finish a project, but afterwards, I’ll be finding a distro I prefer.
My work computer had to be upgraded to 11
Why does my fucking file explorer stop responding so much?
I don’t understand how they fucked this up so badly
Work upgraded my computer from 10 to 11 and now switching between desktops is noticeably slower
I more surprised by how slow the start menu is. It’s absolutely incredible. Windows 7 start bar was faster on my core 2 duo with spinning hdd both to open and search than windows 11 on my 9800X3D with nvme ssd.
GUI elements in the taskbar on a shared work computer or any of the new UI style like to just disappear on hover. Or at random. Or only appear on hover.
Its a pretty recent Lenovo system with a Quadro, a 4k scaled and 1080p monitor. It doesn’t do it when IT remotes in, ever.
I mean, who wants to buy a brand-new computer to be able to run Windows 11 anyway? Besides,most folks aren’t tech-savvy or care enough to go through the hoops just to install this dumpster fire of an OS.
This happens every time there’s a new windows version
Part of it is just resistance to change, but the hardware restrictions and AI encroachment are legitimate impediments in this case.
Windows shoving AI down everyone’s throats lead me to Linux. First Debian, then Fedora. BTW I’m using Arch now. I love AI, but giving Microsoft full access to my entire file system by force rubs me the wrong way.
Same. I run a dual-boot with Linux Mint, but have a windows installation for gaming. I do 99% of my computing on Linux now.
I also have dual-boot with Mint, because I expected to be using Windows for gaming. It turns out I have never needed to. Every game I’ve wanted to play has worked on Linux; and so my Windows partition has just sat idle.
Nice! Fore it’s been about 70% of my library that’s worked, so it’s an unfortunate necessity.
My gaming computer runs Windows 11. I honestly couldn’t tell you the difference between Windows 10 and 11.
Speaking of which… What’s the least invasive way of installing Windows 11?
My main desktop has a Linux and Windows 10 dual-boot setup, but I was thinking about switching to something like Windows To Go when Windows 10 hits EOL, only to find that WTG is no longer supported. I’ve heard that it’s still possible to make a bootable Windows 11 USB using Rufus, but that it’s somehow finicky or buggy…
I’m not sure if using a VM is a viable option for me, as I would probably need GPU passthrough and I really only have space for a single GPU in my current case (that would be used by my Linux host).
Am I stuck dual-booting?
Bro they couldn’t convince me to upgrade to Windows 8.
I use Linux on my home computer, and Windows on my work computer (begrudgingly).
Windows 11 does not feel like an ‘upgrade’ at all. One obvious downgrade is that when I try to change the settings when printing a document, the settings window does not fit on the screen. … I don’t blame Windows for that - its a big settings Window. But the issue is that Windows doesn’t allow me resize it, or scroll down on it, or even let me drag it partially of the screen. And so the result is that it is impossible for me to click the ‘ok’ button when I’m done. The only way to save my changes is if I memorise which button is ok, then press ‘tab’ the exact right number of times to have it select the ok button while I can’t see it, and then press enter. That’s pretty crap. I didn’t have that problem on windows 10. (To be honest I don’t remember exactly what was different. Certainly the window with all the settings was the same, but I believe it had a scroll bar, maybe? In any case, I could certainly press the ok button before ‘upgrading’!)
There are so many annoying features in Windows 11 that I’ve spent ages trying to turn off. For example, I was happy with the way windows could be snapped to the top and to the sides of the screen in windows 10. In Windows 11 they’ve expanded that feature, but made it worse. The snapping brings up menus, and behaves different ways at different times. It’s fiddly and harder to predict. It tries to do more, but ends up being less useful because it is unreliable. I’ve disabled most of the differences in the settings, but not all can be disabled.
And there are heaps of weird inconsistencies in Windows 11. For example, when I rename a file in file explore; often stays in the same places even though it is no longer in the correct file order with the new name. So with alphabetically ordered files, there are often a few things that are out of order - because Windows is inconsistent. (Closing and reopening reorders them.) There are also some weird glitches. For example, I often see graphical glitches while using Excel in Windows 11 which I never saw in Windows 10. Things like rows partially overlapping other rows after scrolling, or the outline of the selected cell sometimes not being visible in parts of the document until you minimise and restore the app. It’s pretty bogus. Obviously they’ve tried to change some backend stuff and created some bugs in the process.
Anyway, the point is that it easy to see why someone would be reluctant to ‘upgrade’ to Windows 11.
I’m still on win10. Planning on hopping over this one Linux-based operating system for gaming specifically (can’t remember its name) once the updates for Win10 run dry. I’ve heard so much bad stuff about 11 that I’m going to try again with Linux (years ago I jumped in Ubuntu since a friend recommended it but I needed to jump back because games didn’t work well).
PopOS?
Bazzite 😁
Bazzite and nobara are the two I think. I am using Bazzite and am quite happy. Good luck
Yes, it was Bazzite 😊 It was recommended by a friend.
Debian, I believe.
I ran POP-OS for about six months a couple of years ago and ended up switching back to Windows because there were too many compromises. Recently I tried it again with the same problems but jumped to Bazzite instead. It fixed most of my issues but I didn’t like the limitations imposed by the guardrails it put in place to make things easy. I then switched to Fedora since that is Bazitte’s base and haven’t looked back. The only issue I’ve had is the video drivers didnt install right automatically but the fix was three well documented commands.
tried to upgrade, it knocked me back to w10 and broke my sound driver
Only Microsoft wants to upgrade. A product without a market in a monopoly is capitalism end game.
Windows 11 blue screens on my desktop on the very first boot right after installation.
I use Linux for almost everything, but I do have some important software that only works on Windows, so my solution is dual booting Windows 10 with a different static IP than the Linux partition, with the Windows IP blocked from the internet in the firewall.