tht@social.pwned.page
on 30 Dec 2024 08:34
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Isn’t the record 600km/h?
SomeoneSomewhere@lemmy.nz
on 30 Dec 2024 08:46
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603 for maglevs, 574.8 for steel rail, set in France in 2007 by a hotted up, modified TGV.
China holds the record for a stock train at 487, set in 2010.
(all per Wikipedia)
It looks like the article might be implying that they will be the fastest trains operating in revenue service when they enter service, but that surely needs to be demonstrated with a production train in revenue service.
…production train in revenue service over the period of usual track maintenance. It’s not the rails I’m worried about but the overhead lines, have a look at the TGV record run there’s a lot of arcing that can’t be good for them. On the pantograph side the contacts are carbon, notoriously brittle, and generally speaking over 300km/h things become dicey just because of heat buildup. Automated retraction systems can prevent the worst, meaning the pantograph getting tangled in the lines at speed, but, well: Production revenue service. Can’t have those fail-safes kick in or you’ll mess up the timetable.
European high speed trains actually got slower vmax over the years for the simple reason that the rest of the systems is reaching practical limits and it doesn’t make sense to have trains that can drive speeds that the track will never reasonably support. If you want to go faster you want to go contactless which means building a whole new, incompatible, network. And the only maglev system with affordable tracks, as in bucks per kilometre (TSB), has a design limit of ~200km/h: It uses bog-standard third-rail like technology for electrification, everything else would be expensive. But for its intended use-case as an S-Bahn 200km/h are plenty and you get nice bonuses such as 10% gradients and inexpensive viaducts (because no point-loads they can be built way lighter).
China, in the end, isn’t that large. You can do high-speed sleeper trains, 12-14h or such, from one end of the country to another with existing stock technology, and so btw could the US.
user134450@feddit.org
on 31 Dec 2024 05:32
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If you want to go faster you want to go contactless which means building a whole new, incompatible, network.
retrofitting and hybrid operation seems possible though: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nevomo
they already built a small working prototype
I very much doubt they’re doing contactless power transfer with nothing but the existing rails and overhead wire. Alsomention of “hypertube” sets of massive alarm bells.
user134450@feddit.org
on 31 Dec 2024 14:35
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Check out their road map and the videos of their prototypes. It is very much not a tech bro project :). The first goal isnt event maglev but magnetic propulsion.
The first goal isnt event maglev but magnetic propulsion.
The TSB does the same, on plain steel rails. Levitating on them, using them as what’sitcalled reaction component in linear magnetic propulsion, only the power transfer is direct contact. TSB rails may look a bit fancy but they’re two electrified steel beams in concrete casing. Your Poles may be working on an improvement to linear motors but it’s not a new concept. Thinking of it they should look into breaking applications: Mechanical breaking causes massive wear so fast trains are using induction brakes but those don’t work to bring the train to a complete standstill, but if the brake is a linear motor it could do that. Selling magnetic brake tech to Siemens or Alstom would probably set the lot of them up for life.
The company developed TSB because they were part of the Transrapid consortium, responsible for the track, and judged that ultimately track cost was why the whole thing failed to materialise, so they sat down and said “what’s the cheapest track we can build” and then designed the rest of the tech around that. Cost differs depending on lots of details but overall they’re actually cheaper than standard rail, doubly so if you take lower maintenance costs into account.
BastingChemina@slrpnk.net
on 30 Dec 2024 08:53
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Yes,
If it has an operating speed of 450km/h this would be impressive.
But just reaching this speed is far from a world record, the French TGV record from 1990 is 513km/h, it reached 574.8km/h in 2007 which is the current world record.
Wind resistance is a problem at speed which is why production trains rarely go faster. Airplanes at altitude see much less win resistance. (hyperloop would also be good but will never be reasonable to build even if the engineering challenges are overcome)
tiredofsametab@fedia.io
on 30 Dec 2024 14:56
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Japanese bullet trains had to get a redesign due to something akin to sonic booms when leaving tunnels that annoyed the hell out of residents several times an hour.
Noise is another issue of course but energy is what will kill faster trains for forever
SanctimoniousApe@lemmings.world
on 30 Dec 2024 09:25
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Not to be left behind, the west invests in an even faster next-gen train codenamed “snowpiercer.”
AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space
on 30 Dec 2024 10:43
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Taller, more aggressively-styled SUVs with poorer visibility is the best we can do
verity_kindle@sh.itjust.works
on 30 Dec 2024 13:15
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“Always bet on bullshit.” -Wesley Snipes, probably
Blackout@fedia.io
on 30 Dec 2024 10:55
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The US is set to unveil their high speed competitor soon with a train called the "American Superior." It is stated to have a top speed of 80km/h and will launch on a single 10km track by the year 2083.
At a cost of 185 billion dollars. CEO is paid 109 million annually, and there’s a board of 126 directors
tiredofsametab@fedia.io
on 30 Dec 2024 14:58
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As someone who frequently uses Japan's bullet trains, that max speed is cool, but also of limited value since trains tend to stop in places. There are some areas, moreso in china that Japan, where that might make sense, but even if your train doesn't stop at all stations, you're still behind the ones that do until a track split to allow passing.
Isn’t scheduling able to mitigate issues like that? It helps a lot that Shinkansens are pretty much always on time. Can’t wait for the Chuo to open eventually though.
tiredofsametab@fedia.io
on 31 Dec 2024 04:35
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You've already got various services running on the same lines basically as close together as they can, so there's only so much wiggle room to accomdate something faster than all of them longer stops on existing services could do something, but that has other knock-on effects. Building a new rail and retrofitting every station would work, but it's also a nightmare to both get the land and do all that development.
threaded - newest
I swear to god, if the west can’t get their shit together real fast I’m going to have to start learning some mandarin
Lots of good cinema and books in Mandarin. And you don’t need to dig through all the AI Slop filling up the English language outlets.
AI writes in all languages. Also mandarin.
It might add a little flavor, maybe a little color. Better set those softmax settings to deterministic.
Or go to France…
Learning mandarin seems the better option then…
To each their own I guess 🤷🏼♀️
Or go to Spain or Germany, or Italy. They all have high speed trains (300-320 km/h commercial). , Spain has the largest high-speed network in Europe.
It’s a good bet regardless
Isn’t the record 600km/h?
603 for maglevs, 574.8 for steel rail, set in France in 2007 by a hotted up, modified TGV.
China holds the record for a stock train at 487, set in 2010.
(all per Wikipedia)
It looks like the article might be implying that they will be the fastest trains operating in revenue service when they enter service, but that surely needs to be demonstrated with a production train in revenue service.
…production train in revenue service over the period of usual track maintenance. It’s not the rails I’m worried about but the overhead lines, have a look at the TGV record run there’s a lot of arcing that can’t be good for them. On the pantograph side the contacts are carbon, notoriously brittle, and generally speaking over 300km/h things become dicey just because of heat buildup. Automated retraction systems can prevent the worst, meaning the pantograph getting tangled in the lines at speed, but, well: Production revenue service. Can’t have those fail-safes kick in or you’ll mess up the timetable.
European high speed trains actually got slower vmax over the years for the simple reason that the rest of the systems is reaching practical limits and it doesn’t make sense to have trains that can drive speeds that the track will never reasonably support. If you want to go faster you want to go contactless which means building a whole new, incompatible, network. And the only maglev system with affordable tracks, as in bucks per kilometre (TSB), has a design limit of ~200km/h: It uses bog-standard third-rail like technology for electrification, everything else would be expensive. But for its intended use-case as an S-Bahn 200km/h are plenty and you get nice bonuses such as 10% gradients and inexpensive viaducts (because no point-loads they can be built way lighter).
China, in the end, isn’t that large. You can do high-speed sleeper trains, 12-14h or such, from one end of the country to another with existing stock technology, and so btw could the US.
retrofitting and hybrid operation seems possible though: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nevomo
they already built a small working prototype
I very much doubt they’re doing contactless power transfer with nothing but the existing rails and overhead wire. Alsomention of “hypertube” sets of massive alarm bells.
Check out their road map and the videos of their prototypes. It is very much not a tech bro project :). The first goal isnt event maglev but magnetic propulsion.
The TSB does the same, on plain steel rails. Levitating on them, using them as what’sitcalled reaction component in linear magnetic propulsion, only the power transfer is direct contact. TSB rails may look a bit fancy but they’re two electrified steel beams in concrete casing. Your Poles may be working on an improvement to linear motors but it’s not a new concept. Thinking of it they should look into breaking applications: Mechanical breaking causes massive wear so fast trains are using induction brakes but those don’t work to bring the train to a complete standstill, but if the brake is a linear motor it could do that. Selling magnetic brake tech to Siemens or Alstom would probably set the lot of them up for life.
The company developed TSB because they were part of the Transrapid consortium, responsible for the track, and judged that ultimately track cost was why the whole thing failed to materialise, so they sat down and said “what’s the cheapest track we can build” and then designed the rest of the tech around that. Cost differs depending on lots of details but overall they’re actually cheaper than standard rail, doubly so if you take lower maintenance costs into account.
.
Yes,
If it has an operating speed of 450km/h this would be impressive.
But just reaching this speed is far from a world record, the French TGV record from 1990 is 513km/h, it reached 574.8km/h in 2007 which is the current world record.
And they thunder around at 300-360km/h all day every day.
I love driving, so much freedom🤡
Wind resistance is a problem at speed which is why production trains rarely go faster. Airplanes at altitude see much less win resistance. (hyperloop would also be good but will never be reasonable to build even if the engineering challenges are overcome)
Japanese bullet trains had to get a redesign due to something akin to sonic booms when leaving tunnels that annoyed the hell out of residents several times an hour.
Noise is another issue of course but energy is what will kill faster trains for forever
Not to be left behind, the west invests in an even faster next-gen train codenamed “snowpiercer.”
Taller, more aggressively-styled SUVs with poorer visibility is the best we can do
“Always bet on bullshit.” -Wesley Snipes, probably
The US is set to unveil their high speed competitor soon with a train called the "American Superior." It is stated to have a top speed of 80km/h and will launch on a single 10km track by the year 2083.
At a cost of 185 billion dollars. CEO is paid 109 million annually, and there’s a board of 126 directors
As someone who frequently uses Japan's bullet trains, that max speed is cool, but also of limited value since trains tend to stop in places. There are some areas, moreso in china that Japan, where that might make sense, but even if your train doesn't stop at all stations, you're still behind the ones that do until a track split to allow passing.
Isn’t scheduling able to mitigate issues like that? It helps a lot that Shinkansens are pretty much always on time. Can’t wait for the Chuo to open eventually though.
You've already got various services running on the same lines basically as close together as they can, so there's only so much wiggle room to accomdate something faster than all of them longer stops on existing services could do something, but that has other knock-on effects. Building a new rail and retrofitting every station would work, but it's also a nightmare to both get the land and do all that development.