from Stopthatgirl7@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world on 14 Jun 20:08
https://lemmy.world/post/16530655
A British man is ridiculously attempting to sue Apple following a divorce, caused by his wife finding messages to a prostitute he deleted from his iPhone that were still accessible on an iMac.
In the last years of his marriage, a man referred to as “Richard” started to use the services of prostitutes, without his wife’s knowledge. To try and keep the communications secret, he used iMessages on his iPhone, but then deleted the messages.
Despite being careful on his iPhone to cover his tracks, he didn’t count on Apple’s ecosystem automatically synchronizing his messaging history with the family iMac. Apparently, he wasn’t careful enough to use Family Sharing for iCloud, or discrete user accounts on the Mac.
The Times reports the wife saw the message when she opened iMessage on the iMac. She also saw years of messages to prostitutes, revealing a long period of infidelity by her husband.
threaded - newest
I know this wasn’t iMessage per se (altho its par for the course for that curs-ed app) but this serves as a good reminder for posterity.
Its actually one of the issues with iCloud and the signin process because if you do the normal thing trying to sign into your account anywhere outside of AppStore, it automaticaly opts you in to iCloud and its showtime for all your data in terms of transit and restoring it and activating all of the crappy, leaky things like iMessage and Backup in addition to all 500+ apps you have that automatically synced themself the moment you opened and all times you used them if you didn’t de-toggle and delete whatever it shared up to that point
All he had to do was put his wife on a different account on the Mac or use another messenger on his phone. I don’t see iMessage as being “leaky” in this instance. His messages didn’t appear anywhere they weren’t supposed to from a technical perspective. He used the same account on the Mac and iPhone, syncing messages worked as advertised. I’d expect this to happen with any message sync feature, it’s not iMessage specific.
It’s like complaining that your wife found out your were cheating because you used FB messenger, yet didn’t create a separate login for your wife on your Linux desktop, and the sole account’s web browser is logged in to your Facebook. He fucked up, that’s poor computer security to let someone else use your account. A major Mac feature is a lot of activity is easily shared across devices you’re logged into. Photos, messages, calendar, reminders, all sorts of things. This tells me to be careful where I log in with my iCloud account and who uses it. Why would you not have a separate login for your wife, especially if you’re fucking around on her and she regularly uses that computer?
This is 100% "I don't understand technology, so it's all Apple's fault!"
I don’t like apple either, but in this case you’re right. I have signal on my phone and on my linux machines, if I share those computers with someone else and let them use the same user, they can open signal and see my messages. The guy in the article is an idiot.
I use Signal as well and that’s what came to mind. Let’s assume I cheated on my wife and hired prostitutes using Signal on my phone. She could use my Windows PC, open Signal there, then see the cheater texts. This isn’t the fault of Signal, Apple, or Microsoft. It did the thing I asked it to do - sync messages. I would have fucked up by letting someone use my Windows login.
Good thing we don’t share accounts, aside from some very short term usage. That’s just a bad idea, even if it’s little personalization type things. Not messaging hookers probably goes a long way too.
Exactly
I think the issue comes that it only syncs messages one way and doesn’t sync on deletions. Apple should have messages that are removed from all devices when removed from the phone, but it didn’t remove messages when deleted.
Sure the guy is a moron for being a cheater and scumbag, but Apple should remove deleted messages. That’s a privacy problem with Apple’s sync. I don’t use Apple devices due to other Apple crap, but setting up iCloud sync should have a warning when items won’t be deleted and only will be downloaded to devices.
Wasn’t an entire stupid movie about the horrible sync pitfalls in Apple devices premiered years ago?
Why? My laptop has more storage than my phone. Sometimes I need to save a conversation for future reference, and want photos on my laptop where I have more storage, not on my phone.
Sorry I’m late, but I would say that that case means a system should have rules to define when and where the majority of the files are at. Or at least a defined way to declare which system is one-way, and which is two-way.
The old Google Calendar system had that flag, so I find it strange that Apple wouldn’t, unless they really want to push the iCloud data Subscription model.
Well it worked with me, because I paid it.
If you had deleted in Signal that would sync right away before it visually rendered all the contacts and message content. False equivalence
Fair point. Signal would ask me if I want to delete on this device only or on all devices though, does iMessage do that too?
I don’t think that’s the case, I believe its either
Delete for me inherently deletes for your associated devices using that Signal account
Doesn’t the deletion of a conversation propagate to all devices though?
That’s what didn’t happen here that this guy apparently assumed did happen
Signal asks if you want to delete a message on all devices, incauding the recipients, or only on the current device.
Guy’s an idiot for sure, but I would expect a delete action to sync as well. Why does a creation sync but not a deletion?
I think that’s the one thing Apple did wrong here. The way it seems to work currently, I would have to manually delete the same message from each device one after another. That’s stupid.
Good question. It should sync deletes per their support article, and that’s my experience with iMessages. Wonder if this was an SMS conversation and it only delivers to multiple devices, but doesn’t actually sync SMS like it does iMessages.
And it would definitely be SMS if the prostitutes were using Android.
SMS forwards and syncs through the Messages app if you enable it in iCloud. If he was getting the “Sign into iCloud” prompt to reauthenticate his Mac any point in time after the message was synced, and they were just hitting cancel, it would suspend sync and deletion.
Technically that doesn’t say that deleting them from your phone will delete it from the backup on your Mac
Because it deleted from the cloud, the synced message is already on the device. Once there’s a digital copy, it’s like a carbon physical copy. Just because you shred the white and yellow copy doesn’t mean you’ve shredded the yellow copy in the file cabinet you forgot about.
That doesn’t explain why they can’t sync a deletion.
sh.itjust.works/comment/12161786
Isn’t messages in iCloud off by default? I feel like I had to actively enable this in a preference panel.
I think it’s changed recently. Even if you have icloud messaging on you used to have to explicitly turn it on per device. But I recently got a new iPad and when I went to check that setting it was already on.
iPad / iOS I think is on by default, but not macOS. Maybe I’m wrong though.
It does that for Mac too. They do it for all devices I believe altho I can’t speak to Watch or the glasses. Likely so for them to be consistent but can comment outside of conjecture
Anywhere outside of AppStore signin, you’re basically getting factory defaults which is
Just wiped and installed Sonoma on a MacBook, can confirm it defaults to on when you sign in with your Apple ID. Handoff is nice and all but I don’t need every device in the room dinging when the local car wash sends me a spam text. The watch is iffy, it mirrors the phone settings but sometimes my phone dings and sometimes my wrist does, not entirely sure why.
I had to turn it on, but that was a 6s. Currently running android without much storage and I’m loathe to back up to cloud, unless it’s business that doesn’t require extra privacy, but may needed as a reference, later.
You are mistaken at least as of the present and even a while back. They reset all defaults everytime you log into iCloud, its likely an attempt to discourage logging out
Heh.
Such a Richard move
Classic Richard
he did the old Richard-a-roo
Hold my pimp cane, I’m going in!!!
Small Richard energy
What an idiot on multiple accounts.
No no you see, the issue was precisely the lack of multiple accounts
No that’s the problem, he was an idiot with a single account.
Guy shoulda used Signal
Guy shouldn’t have cheated
Two things can be true lol. He should have insisted on disappearing messages and Signal use for the app but a lot of people are quite resistant to the notion that they don’t get to “keep” your conversations forever for whatever purpose they choose
I was a huge Signal advocate at one time and would try to get everyone to install it and use it. Man, woman or child, I didn’t care who it was. I was worse than a crypto-bro trying to jam BTC down everyone’s throat.
I was chatting with a group of ladies at work and got a few of them to install it. When they did, Signal pushed notifications of them connecting to my wife’s phone.
Needless to say, I got questioned fairly intensely about why there were other girls connecting with me on Signal.
I wasn’t very keen on Signal after that.
Interesting. I’ve never liked those notifications but I’ve seen people on Signal message boards defend them to the death. There’s no privacy issue! You’re only getting it because they’re already saved in your phone! This is a good scenario to illustrate the point.
You can just switch it off.
So your wife had them in her contacts, got notified her contacts joined signal, and the link to you is…?
This was an old feature, before it could be disabled.
So, if my wife was in my contact list first and I was in hers, she would get notified when someone was added to mine.
It was something like, “X has joined Signal on Y’s phone!!” or some bullshit like that.
This is /technology not /morales
.
Why can’t we discuss both if both apply?
This is /technology, not /religion
What does the Morales family have to do with this?
You misspelled /morels
What do mushrooms have to do with this?
As many have recently discovered, if infidelity occurs, it’s the phone makers fault.
lemdro.id/post/9738136
ibtimes.co.uk/new-apple-ios18-feature-meant-banki…
/s
Anyone who is worried about this feature is in a toxic relationship. And that’s not the phone’s fault.
I was being sarcastic. I guess I was wrong about how obvious it was.
No. I 100% understood the sarcasm. Did that sound like a rebuttal or argument? It wasn’t intended that way.
I knew a guy when I served in the US military who got caught cheating in a semi-related way. He got assigned to a base in a new state and his wife refused to relocate their whole family for the few years he’d be assigned there, so he went by himself, leaving his wife and kids in his home state.
Turns out, he was sexting one of his younger subordinates at work. One of his daughters found out when she tried to use an old tablet and found out his account was still synced to it. She saw all his texts updating in real time.
He was ultra-conservative and didn’t believe in divorce, so he was doing everything he could to save his marriage. His wife forced him to install security cameras in every room of his apartment and banned him from going anywhere after work. She knew his schedule and expected him home immediately after work ended. He was basically on house arrest until his job was done and he could move home.
The last I heard, he told his wife the landlord needed to paint the walls, so he removed all the cameras, dunked them in the bathtub, then played dumb when none of them would work when he set them back up again. He was seen inviting young women over to his apartment after that. So, you know… he didn’t learn his lesson.
This is so toxic. Not saying cheaters get what they deserve but if you can’t trust your husband, I think you have bigger problems than infidelity.
That’s conservatism for ya, can’t divorce and just be happier people for it because sky daddy might be mad
It’s probably mostly due to not wanting to pay spousal support and control issues.
Opposite if they’re military. She gets benefits for being his wife. His income drops if divorced.
There are two people using resources. Should’ve broadened my set, let me revise that now: greed and control issues. Thanks for the catch.
That’s religiousness, not conservatism.
Oh yea, they latch onto each other so much I forget that they’re actually separate things
Except education. Conservation of knowlrdge across generations doesn’t seem to like religions very much.
but can cheat no problemo!
i will never fully understand religious zealots.
I found out my ex of 12 years was cheating in a similar matter. For some reason she liked taking screenshot of conversations, I had set up Amazon pictures auto backup on her phone at her request cause she was afraid of losing 16 years of pictures. One day I was looking through the backups cause my phone was also set up and I was looking for an old picture I no longer had on my phone. I ended up finding plenty of screenshot of her texts with an old school boyfriend she had been cheating on me with for almost 2 years. Nothing physical as far as I could tell but I can’t say for certain it didn’t happen, emotional cheating is just as bad for me anyways.
I also saw that some screenshot were from Instagram and I knew her tablet was logged in so I checked and it was all there. Worst part was, that she would often be texting him when we were together doing things and basically telling him she wish she was there. Worst 3 months of my life while I got my ducks in a row so I could leave without issue.
I found out she met him at least twice on her yearly trips back to her home country.
I’m so sorry. I’ve been in a similar situation and I know how it just makes you feel gutted. I’m glad you’re free of someone like that, though.
Yea it left me feeling hollow for a while but I’ve found a lovely new girl who respects and appreciates me who I’ve been with for almost 2 years now and she’s also my fiancee.
Divorce is sin, side chicks are fine. Got it.
You wouldn’t believe how many people think like that, unless it’s the woman caught out.
Well of course she can’t have side chicks. Homosexuality is a sin. Unless he does it
I chuckled. I think there is deep seated shame of being gay, or soft, in toxic masculinity (and toxic femininity), that people probably go to extremes to hide it. Like being a player, spousal “discipline,” etc. and it gets passed down from generation to generation. But that’s a whole other topic.
sex before marriage is a sin, but you can use the asshole loophole just fine.
*poophole loophole
I just can’t understand why it’s up to the husband to say no divorce while he cheats? Like what position of power does he have?
Lots of places do not allow no-fault divorce and the Republicans are planning to make it universal if they win the elections.
But wouldn’t the husband be at fault here either way by conservative standards? It’s infidelity.
He had military benefits to spouses that she would be walking away from. Healthcare, dental, affordable subsidized housing, or housing allowance, less expensive child care, all kinds of things. Being the spouse of a military member is hard, but there’s perks, especially if you have children.
Sounds like some cartoon plot. My New Wife: Divorce is Magic.
This will be buried but it’s my take on it and whatever…
So I was Army for a while - away from the wife and kid (at the time only one now I’m up to 2 I’m winning life) and it boils down to two separate issues: can the husband deal or the wife.
Men take a ton of shit going through military service so having solid ground back home is like winning the lottery. You never think it’s going to happen, you get excited it might, but it never does. I’m not dogging women in this at all but we are all just humans who want comfort in some way.
So I approach this from the woman’s side. She wants to know that’s her man. Only hers no one else’s. That’s the hero she married and cameras ain’t gonna make a shit stain difference in it. But she’s still scared so she asks for it.
Young men don’t have brains lol. We don’t think we just do. And I approach this with several years of learning from my mistakes. Which this man didn’t have. Yet. Hopefully now he does.
It’s easier to paint the woman the villain for not “supporting the ‘hero’” (yes that’s double quotes cause signing a paper is easy as hell) but to marry someone and just decided to leave… that’s not how the army works or any military branch for that matter.
Sounds to me like the man had a kid, decided that’s not the life he wanted, fucked that life up and here we are. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong but… here we are.
Just get one of the free texting apps or get a burner. Dumb people.
Or don’t cheat on your partner in the first place.
I mean people doing things they shouldn’t using their own phone. Like, serious trouble is a thumbprint or a passcode away.
Should have used Signal.
Signal also has a similar problem. If you choose the “delete for me” option, it only deletes it on one device and leaves it on the others, last time I checked.
He would have to set up disappearing messages aswell.
I think there is a three hour window where you can delete for all.
You can only do that for your own messages though. I’m guessing the messages from the prostitutes would be more than enough for the wife to notice.
Also I think the window is longer than 3 hours. Maybe a day?
I meant because it does not sync between different devices.
Yup, something that’s not synced to family computers. That’s basically the first rule of opsec.
Apple could still be at fault here, but you never trust a single service to maintain your privacy, you have multiple layers protecting you.
Geez, has this dude never watched a crime drama before? If you’re gonna be doing bad shit at LEAST get a burner phone. 🙄🙄🙄
If I have multiple devices synced, and I delete something from one of them, it’s not unreasonable to think it should be deleted from all of them.
For example, a shared calendar item on my phone, tablet and laptop. If I delete it on one, it should be deleted from all of them.
If Apple synced the messages, but not the delete operation, yeah… that’s a problem.
But it’s also on the guy for setting up/not disabling sharing in the first place.
It depends on how you look at these things. Traditional, fat-client POP3 email was not syncing, it was just downloading from the server. In such a case, I would not expect it to be syncing.
In this particular case, I wouldn’t expect a sync at all. These are messages received on, and managed on, distinct devices.
That said, I did get a MacBook last month and have learned that these things synchronize. Which is cool but I didn’t expect that. Still wouldn’t expect it on deletes.
Here’s how it’s advertised:
The article says nothing about deleted messages, but it does imply that what you see on one device is expected to match what you see on another. So it’s reasonable to think that deleting on one device will delete on another.
The article tries to say that this is ridiculous, but I don’t see it.
Sure, he’s a cheater, and he got caught. Not particularly sympathetic.
But, Apple markets their products as privacy-respecting, he deleted something he wanted to keep secret, and his Apple products betrayed him and revealed his secret to someone else, resulting in real-world consequences.
Apple should be held to account for the privacy violation at the very least.
Except he used the same account for his prostitute texting device as for the family pc.
It’s simple user error. You can’t have privacy from someone else who shares the same login.
I don’t have any Apple devices so I don’t understand why deleting the message from one device doesn’t delete it from another. What is the point of a sync in that case?
I’m not sure about the specifics in the Apple ecosystem but I imagine it’s like an email address that’s connected as IMAP on one main PC, and as POP3 on your phone.
You can download the mails you need to your phone to read them and answer them on the go.
But the mail server is synched to the PC. So deleting stuff on your phone just deletes the messages on your phone, not on the server and not on the PC.
You can “delete for all” since one or two years, but the Standard has long been “deleting from this device only”
Nah, it’s more like Dropbox. It’s a multi-way sync between all devices. Dropbox, Google drive and Microsoft one box all have the same kind of problems. Stuff that’s supposed to be deleted ends up not getting deleted, stuff that’s supposed to be overwritten ends up getting multiple copies with conflicts Even though nothing else has any changes staged. It’s totally possible to do it without all that, but there are cost savings are wrapped up in trying to add intelligence in there to make it communicate with the server less.
I don’t really give a rat’s ass about the guy cheating, but if a company is going to drag me into their distributed ecosystem I fully expect deleted things to delete everywhere and stay deleted. This isn’t the first time that they’ve been in the news recently for deleted things reappearing.
IMAP actually deletes an mail for all the clients.
yes, that’s what I wrote.
Deleting messages from an iPhone WILL delete them from other devices - assuming you’ve opted to let it to do that, and then even still, there may be a delay until the next sync happens.
I’ve deleted messages on my iPhone and they’ll linger on my MacBook for a good while, depending on circumstances. (ie, if the MacBook wasn’t on network when the messages were deleted).
Yep, instant sync is never a guarantee. There still has to be a queue for command messages along with authentication plus authorization of said commands. And just like you said, you must be connected to a network that then can reach their cloud to even receive the command queue.
I run a sync service between multiple Active Directory domains as a result of a merger and the directories haven’t been cutover yet. Along with this sync is a password sync that is normally instant. Most of the times (> 90%), less than a second. Sometimes 3 seconds. Other times? 2 minutes. Even when things are within the same LAN, there’s the possibility of a backed up queue.
So yeah, this is purely on him trusting the sync implicitly and not verifying. In my case, I trust it too but will on occasion have to assist users because it’s not infallible. Karma got him and I have zero sympathy.
I use Apple sync on all my devices including my computer and it does delete from one device to another IF you have sync set up properly. And it’s not instantaneous, it happens when the cloud sync happens. When the computer is off or in sleep, it’s not syncing and once it’s woken up, sometimes it takes a minute to sync up. My guess, it was either not set up right or it hadn’t sync’d yet.
Other possibility, he didn’t know about the deleted folder where deleted messages sit for 30 days unless you clear it (like a computer trash can).
I generally don’t like Apple, but I think crying about privacy violation because someone you’re willingly sharing your account with saw your stuff is not reasonable.
My kid sometimes takes pictures of my SO naked because they know how to access the camera. My SO deletes them as soon as they find them. If those pictures were synced to another computer, the expectation is that those pictures would be deleted from that other computer as well. Not deleting those pictures on the other computer is absolutely a privacy concern.
That’s the case here as well. It’s reasonable to think of iMessage as one blob of data, where deleting from one device deletes all copies from other devices. In Apple jargon, it should “just work.” If it doesn’t “just work” as a reasonable person would expect and that results in damages, I think it’s reasonable for Apple to share in those damages.
It would absolutely be a privacy concern if someone without the rights to access this data could access it from the computer.
My understanding is that it’s the same account logged on both devices. Computers are multi-users devices. No technology ever would protect your secret stuff from someone you’ve just shared your personal account with.
It’s a problem that deletion is not perfectly synchronized, yes. It certainly is a privacy risk because an unauthorized intruder could find them. But in this particular case, there’s no intrusion. The wife just had normal access to these messages in the first place.
I’m not saying he got hacked or anything, just that iMessage not working as a reasonable person might expect directly led to this problem. So I think the lawsuit is completely valid. I’m guessing he was using a family staring feature or something and deletes were not synced properly.
This person is absolutely an idiot though. Everyone should know to use a non-synced messaging service when doing something you want hidden, like a burner phone or Signal.
WTF?
The kid is under 5, they’re just curious and like taking pictures. It’s easy to access the camera on my SO’s lock screen.
If it helps, they’re the same gender.
To me gender isn’t isn’t relevant here, even if the kid is way older. The violation of privacy however is.
I don’t recall the age I had to teach my kid not to film me taking a shower or a dump. I believe by the age of 5 they had their own mind when they wanted to be filmed/have their picture taken.
Just to be clear, it’s a child taking pictures of an adult (the child’s biological parent too), not the other way around.
Just to be clear by the age of 3-4 a child should be aware of the concept of not taking what belongs to others including their pictures.
If your SO was fine with their phone being used to take nudes of them it would not be an issue. However in your 1st comment you state they are not.
The kids is old enough to understand boundaries and the word “no”. If that behavior is limited to your own household then fine you do you. It never is though.
It sounds like you don’t have kids. This is my third, and this point has been different for each. My first was pretty quick (around 3yo), my second was a bit later (around 5 1/2), and this one seems closer to the second than the first.
Understanding “no” and actually obeying are two very different things, and it usually takes 2-3 times before the child understands. The child in question seems to still be learning contexts, as in taking pictures is fine sometimes, but not when someone is getting ready to take a shower. The child doesn’t apparently see “naked person X,” but instead “person X,” so that’s also being learned. Being a child can be confusing.
Fortunately, we don’t have any automatic syncing, so it’s not an issue for us to delete the image and reprimand the child. But it could be an issue for someone else.
It should be very obvious that I have kids just as well as it is obvious that you seem to be outsourcing parenting.
Of course kids are different, that’s true for every living being. Of course setting boundaries is hard, in my observation it requires way more that 2-3 times teaching - sometimes way way more. Especially when it’s an important thing that’s also fun like „don’t run across the (busy) street” or “don’t touch the hot thing” or whatever is going on with your phones.
Then you understand that “don’t take pictures of mommy/daddy naked” isn’t a one-time affair. It happens, we respond to it, and that repeats a few times over the course of weeks or months until the behavior stops. It’s not an everyday thing (we are better stewards of our mobile devices and kids than that), but it happens.
And there are different forms of “no,” there’s the gentle “no” when a child takes a snack just before dinner, and there’s the firm “no” of crossing a street by themselves. The first is way less effective than the second, but if you always use the second, both will be ineffective. Something like taking a picture of a parent naked isn’t an emergency, it’s easily reversible and relies on understanding social norms the child hasn’t encountered (e.g. we’ll shower with young children sometimes, we’ll take them to locker rooms, etc, so there are mixed messages). So we reserve the second for true emergencies, and those lessons are learned quickly.
My point is that children are unpredictable, and often throw an annoying wrench into everyday things. Ideally, amy damage they do is easily reversible, such as deleting that nude picture from a phone a few minutes after being taken.
While I don’t necessarily agree in this case, you did remind me of something Justice Kirby (an Australia Hugh Court (our highest court) Judge) wrote in his dissent in Carr v Western Australia.^1
^1 232 CLR 138, 188 [170].
it doesn’t sound ridiculous to me. regardless of the backstory, the issue was that he deleted something and it didn’t work. it could have been a password or picture of his balls or something. Apple should pay up
I dont know, the issue reminds me of tech support calls id get back in the day for people who got angry at their ISP when they mixed up IMAP and POP3. Maybe step through exactly how this message service handles copying and deleting before using it to hire prostitutes for years.
You’re out of your mind if you think the regular guy off the street should:
Know the difference between IMAP and POP3
Know the inner workings of iMessage
If Apple requires proof of understanding to sell their tech, they should submit users to a test. Otherwise, their tech should work how the users expect it to. And deleting messages when I press the damn “delete” button is how any sane person expects things to work. Now, if Apple wants to make a copy and store it in their asshole, and I have to penetrate them anally to delete it as well? That’s fucking debatable in court if it’s a reasonable expectation for a user to have.
They explain how this works in their “tips” app - ie the user guide.
You seem to think that because you expect something to work a certain way, everyone does, and that’s just not true at all. For most of the history of iMessage, they were never synced. Eventually they rolled out the option to sync them with iMessage for iCloud. You can choose to use it or not. But I would suggest that just as many people think that deleting a text from one device won’t delete it from the others.
This is not the case of “apple” storing the message anywhere. This is the case of a user storing his messages locally on his Mac and then sharing the account with his wife. He’s clearly an idiot, but sure, blame Apple for not being able to save him from himself.
No it sounds like he (and you) didn’t understand the technology and thought it acted in a way it didn’t. Expecting Apple to be liable for this is buffoonery.
That depends on how well Apple explained the features and behavior, IMHO. A lot of liability issues comes down to what expectations the seller has set for the buyer
It’d be a hard thing to argue in court though that Apple should not consider their users to be borderline competent. Anyone who knows anything about technology should know that when you delete something of the internet it’s never gone forever.
You can still access websites that were taken down in the early 2000s for god’s sake. Why would you assume that a text message being deleted would result in it being irretrievable?
Does Apple have actual instructions and documentation that explains this? I honestly didn’t know, as I’ve never used iMessage.
Yes, they do.
This article is short on details but basically the situation is that for most of the lifetime of iMessage, you sign in with your Mac and your phone and your iPad and whatever. These messages are not synced. If you sign in on a new device, the old one’s don’t show up. If you delete from one device it has no affect on the other.
Later they introduced iMessage in iCloud , which is an opt in service. iMessage in iCloud, once set up on your devices, allows you to sync your messages amongst these devices by storing these messages in the cloud. This is not enabled by default, probably because security wise it’s probably safer to not store your messages in the cloud.
In the “Tips” app on my iPhone (which is the user guide app), they explicitly state you have to enable it on all of your devices. You can have some set up to store in the cloud and another device just logged in and storing messages locally. This is to give you the flexibility to store all of your messages long term on one or more devices but not on all of them or in the cloud.
I don’t know about you, but I much prefer the option to store my data where I want rather than to be forced to have it in the cloud (and therefore synced) just because some shitty people are too stupid to know how to cover the evidence of their shitty behavior and want to shift blame to anyone but themselves.
No, the issue is that he didn’t understand how the technology he was using worked. I mean, one of Apple’s most prevalently advertised features is their product integration, it’s like, their whole deal.
I’m not sure if he means he could continue his behaviour without being caught or if he planned on lying and saying it was a one time thing. Either way I highly doubt he had any plans to be honest.
The “talk to her rationally” bit is hilarious. Yes I’ve been expensively unfaithful, have possibly been exposing you to a number of diseases without your knowledge, and have been physically unavailable regularly for years. What self respecting person wouldn’t “rationally” see that as perfectly acceptable! /s
You’re forgetting that they’re british
Not OK with his behaviour, definitely OK with Apple coughing up 100 million quid for the bloke and his wife
For this man’s own stupidity? Nah.
I’m OK with any excuse for Apple to lose money. Do not condone his behavior personally
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Dunno how it is Apples fault that he didn’t take the time to understand how the tools that he uses work.
If I plow my car into a crowd of people because I mistake the gas for the brake that is not GM’s fault.
And If they label the pedal “stop” and it doesn’t actually stop the car?
I’m not aware of the delete label in iMessage being labeled “delete from every device that you own and have signed into iMessage”.
There are numerous documented ways to avoid the situation he put himself in, he didn’t bother to find one and is now trying to blame others for his stupidity.
On the one hand, I don’t know that it’s fair to sue a company over your poor understanding of technology, or user error. On the other hand, if he worked for DARPA and was using imessage to talk to his boss or his team about a project that was then leaked or sold by someone living in his home who had access to his home laptop because he didn’t know that the messages he deleted weren’t deleted in real time, and he was fired from his job, that seems like something the company should make very clear when deleting the messages in the first place. A simple warning “Delete this message? Please be aware that deletion is not instantaneously across devices.” Would do.
Incognito mode actually has to tell users that it doesn’t prevent your ISP from seeing what you Google or what websites you visit while using it. They literally had to add a notification so people would know because people didn’t know.
The way iMessage works is really broken. It’s like back in the old days when email was done by POP, so you would have to delete the email separately on both your laptop and your desktop otherwise you’d have inconsistencies.
Apple has never put any effort into it. Virtually every other messaging system is superior. People only used it because SMS was so limited back in the day but now there’s no reason for it to exist.
You can sync your messages by enabling iMessage in iCloud. Or you can just not sign into iMessage on devices that are shared with other people.
It’s not broken, it works this way by design. If you don’t want your messages stored in the cloud, then they aren’t synced. This is a choice that many messaging apps don’t give you.
If you work for DARPA and send anything near sensitive materials over iMessage, and something happens over it, that’s on you for being dumb.
People who work with sensitive information should know better than to use personal communication methods. If they don’t that’s their fault.
Any workplace where this is a worry, this should and probably will be drilled into your head from day one.
The point is to divorce the situation from the cheating aspect, so that people can be less emotionally invested in the outcome. Plenty of jobs that handle industry sensitive information do so over normal communication lines. DARPA was possibly a poor example because the assumption from you is that anything handled by them requires a clearance (which I wouldn’t consider to be true). Something as simple as tracking the whereabouts of a naval ship can and has been done via Facebook posts from people onboard or their families.
The point is that it wasn’t clear to the user that their information wasn’t being deleted in real time and that’s poor transparency on the part of the company because a lot of users probably assume the same just based on the comments I see here.
The best part is that even if Apple is found liable, the asshole only gets some money. From here on out he will be known as the asshole that he is!