Microsoft will let users uninstall Edge, Bing, and disable ads on Windows 11 as it complies with the Digital Markets Act
(www.windowscentral.com)
from morrowind@lemmy.ml to technology@lemmy.world on 16 Nov 2023 18:46
https://lemmy.ml/post/8056490
from morrowind@lemmy.ml to technology@lemmy.world on 16 Nov 2023 18:46
https://lemmy.ml/post/8056490
First RCS now this, today has been wild
threaded - newest
Why yes Microsoft, I am totally a European in Europe right now…
VPN to Sweden, update Windows to the EEA version, profit?
I’m not holding my breath, but we can hope.
It 's wild to think that some people might VPN to the EU for basic rights.
Freedom!
People do that China 🤷♂️
Coming to a Western country soon near you!
You wouldn’t pirate basic human rights, would you?
Välkommen!
Bless you.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Microsoft has published a new blog post which details how Windows 11 will be made compliant with the Digital Markets Act (DMA) in the European Economic Area (EEA.)
To be compliant, Microsoft has made several changes to the OS, which now allows users to choose between providers and uninstall most in-box apps.
The company describes these changes as specific to Windows 11 PCs in the EEA, so it’s unclear if users outside this area will be able to utilize these functions.
These changes will rollout in preview on Windows 11 in the Insider Beta Channel in the coming weeks, and will become generally available early next year.
The EEA is an economic and political union that spans 27 countries in the European and surrounding area.
In the case of Microsoft, this means not forcing users to use Edge or Bing, and ensuring the OS is interoperable with other services where necessary.
The original article contains 488 words, the summary contains 151 words. Saved 69%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
ABOUT FUCKING TIME. Take edge and shove it so far up your data tracking sphincter of a face hole.
Can we please get these laws on a global level.
I’m not disagreeing, but what entity would enforce those global laws?
La Haye International Court of Justice, of course.
And what happens when the country in question is one that doesn’t care that much about the ICC, and responds “make me”?
To wit: The United States has famously refused to subordinate itself to the ICC
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Same way laws are enforced now? Each country passing it and the companies needing to comply to continue operations.
Why are they force to comply right now if the laws don’t work?
You’re missing the point.
The ICC only has power in countries that let them have power. If a given country doesn’t feel like doing that, the ICC has precisely zero recourse or ability to enforce.
What should citizens in countries like that (which may or may not be dictatorships, single-party states, theocracies, or some other restrictive, un-democratic, and/or xenophobic form of government) do?
Yes and I’m saying each country should implement it themselves so that we can reach global saturation. That is what I meant in my original response to op.
You are taking what I said out of proportion. Obviously we need Superman to enforce a global ruling hand over mankind.
I was about to say that I’d prefer alien overlords but based on Superman’s origin, he’s got my vote
I vote for angry mob with convenient access to an active volcano.
Who needs a volcano when woodchippers can park right in your driveway.
Remember to load them feet first kids!
*jots down ‘load kids feet first into chipper’
Wait, is Microsoft violating child labor laws, too!?
Well, your heart's in the right place.
And apparently the kids feet are in the right place too!
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Space force?
Well they’ll probably reinstall it with every update anyway.
That is easy enough to block or deal with.
At least there’s the option to remove it at all that the non tech people can now easily access.
I can’t wait to see what this breaks and how the fix is to reinstall edge for all kinds of mundane issues.
Turns out edge is what renders the entire UI and uninstalling it leaves you at the console. Oh and you can’t access files because the file system is an http server accessed via edge. But it does come with QBASIC, so there’s that.
… then disable the update …
Not really possible anymore, Microsoft has been forcing updates since Windows 10.
They would get massive fines if they tried that.
Nope. But hey look, the Democrats are coming to take your guns!
If I have to keep a chromium browser around, in addition to Firefox, I’d rather edge than mainline Chrome.
For me i went with DuckDuckGo + Firefox
95℅ of the time on Firefox and DDG is just for YouTube ( even in it’s current Beta state it can bypass YouTube’s anti adblocker )
Edge is just too problematic, Microsoft opened up Dark patterns 1.0.1 and forked Chromium and voila >> NSA certified browser
That’s a false dichotomy. There’s no shortage of Chromium browsers that are significantly better than both.
Suggestions? Preferably for both Windows and Mac
Not sure which ones are compatible with Mac. Brave is my choice but there’s also Vivaldi and several flavors of Opera.
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All Mac browsers are just Safari anyway
You might be thinking of iOS browsers? Mac browsers use a variety of engines
Arc is weird but pretty good once you get used to it.
DuckDuckGo is good if you want a minimal browser and don’t really care about extensions
Brave is OK if you want a slightly more private version of Chrome
Honestly though, just use Firefox.
Brave seems like a superb option.
Opera seems like a reasonable option, I guess, but I’m not sure if it has the market share to actually be seen and controversial if there was something to be controversial about.
I’m not sure I would. Edge is trash, it keeps shoving the AI bullshit, all the MSN news stuff, ads for cheaper shopping, all in your face when you first start up. While you can turn it off, it gets annoying doing that every time you reinstall or spin up a new VM. Chrome, for all its faults, is a lot less annoying freshly installed.
I appreciate your sense of relief, but don’t share it. This isn’t the first time Microsoft has been ordered to stop pushing its stuff (remember Internet Explorer?) and I’m sure it won’t be the last.
Hey, 'Muricans, how come we need to pressure every company into compliance for you?
See: Regulatory Capture
Do you really think any average citizen has any say in this whatsoever?
Yes. You’re a democracy, right? Right?
On paper yes. In reality…
Isn’t that the point of your guns? Why are all these less free states more free?
Nah, those are just so we can shoot nonwhite people and say we thought they had a gun
well, on paper also no, democracy don’t exist with only two parties, and that is writed in paper
An electoral democracy, we choose those that make the laws. Due to the 2 party system we don’t have many options for when they fail to do what they claim they will.
No, we’re a republic.
A true democracy would empower each of us to do as you say, but that’s not what’s here.
Our republic is quite corrupt due to greed and power, as well… Not as corrupt as many countries out there, mind you, but it’s alot worse than it should be.
We’re starting to resemble a corporatocracy in many ways these days as a result of all this.
‘Republic’ is about whether or not you have kings. Democracy is as opposed to autocracy, with a few other *cracys between those poles.
America is a democratic republic; the United Kingdom is a democratic monarchy. The US has a broken democratic system that does a really bad job of electing the most preferred candidate. It’s almost cheeky to call America democratic.
Obviously since it’s happening for us Europeans
Great America, land of the free
Free to be shot at and advertised to
Land of the fee and home of the slave
Hey, 'Peans, how come you think a country larger than your pseudo continent is a homogenous hivemind?
E: what Ive learned from this comment is that apparently, all europeans share 1 single trait, which is just utterly horrid reading comprehension
Erm... Larger by land mass? Yes. Larger by GDP? No. Larger by number of inhabitants? No. Larger by amount of vastly different cultures that somehow get stuff like this done whole very decidedly not being a hive mind? Also no.
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ThEre ArE no iMmIgRaNtS in EuRopE
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Let me quote:
So yeah. That.
The rest of your comment is blatantly ignorant AND horridly racist, so I think I’ll just do is both a favor and ignore it.
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Keep digging shovel boy
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They don’t mean the same thing, I’m mocking you (see also: SpongeBob case) for saying something that is patently, obviously, hilariously wrong.
There’s a reason you are getting dragged all over the thread: you are a provincial ignoramus.
Y'all could've just looked up the numbers on immigrants as a percent of population:
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/immigration-by-country
Where in your quote does it say europe has no immigrants?
I refer you to the other thread for an in depth explanation.
Id just refer you back to the quote, that blatantly doesnt say what you said it does
Draw by repetition!
I guess, but you kinda look like a dumbass quoting something incorrectly. You shouldnt need an in depth thread to explain why your false quote maybe technically could possibly be misconstrued.
Makes everything else you said look suspect by comparison.
You really think I’m going to go 13 rounds with yet another provincial ignoramus in the dead end of a deleted comment’s thread?
You slapped down a quote and then said, “so, theres that.”
About a quote that explicitly does not say “that.”
And then called the dude a racist.
Disagreements about which landmass is more culturally diverse is one thing, but youre the ignoramus here, steed.
So tell me, who are the “immigrants” in the US? Who are the “not immigrants”?
That has nothing to do with what you or the other dude said. You mocked the other comment for, by your claim, saying europe has no immigrants.
The existence of immigrants in the US, regardless of if you think there are more or less of them than europe, isnt a statement on the existence of immigrants at all in europe.
Did you read what you wrote?
That’s right. And now I’m mocking you.
Yeah, but youre doing that to deflect and hide from actually answering anything.
Do you maybe realize you fucked up? And are just too embarassed to admit it cause you think the other guy is a shitheel, and dont want to own up to a mistake made to a shitheel?
Because that just also makes you look like a shitheel.
Answer my question then.
So, you want to just completely change the conversation because you fucked up this one?
Ok, define immigrant then.
That’s the point innit?
That’s why the OPs comment was racist as shit.
I’m glad you’re starting to catch on.
I never said they didnt say anything racist.
I said you fucked up your quote, by lying about what it said.
Can you read? Could you actually read and respond to the words presented to you, instead of making up secret words you hope I am thinking and hiding from you to respond to?
Having to play this game where I need to repeat myself over and over until you actually read whats written is pretty old.
Sorry, what was that? Didn’t quite catch it.
Im just gonna take that as admission that you just didnt read any of the comments you responded to.
Which also implies the other guy didnt even say anything racist, you just made that up too.
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Oh, back to this completely unrelated cry fest?
My personal definition is 2fold. Immigrant either means someone who has just crossed national lines with intent to take up residence, or it means a descendant of the former within 2 generations who still feels explicit ties to their parent or grandparents birthplace over current national ties.
Can you read that? Or do I need to copy paste it a few times for you
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Thats a cute lie. You didnt expect that definition from me and have no way to try and twist it into a gotcha, I take it?
Guess I was right, you are a dipshit. But we both knew that, didnt we?
40 years counts as quite a long time in american history i suppose
I mean, in terms of humans that’s 2 generations, and since diversity and populations concern humans, that’s a big head start. But you can keep applying off topic cliches if they help you feel better.
As an American, you’re being silly. You’ve heard of the Silk Road? The Mediterranean? The Old World has been rubbing shoulders with each other since 4000+ years ago. We just got here in comparison.
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The majority of the immigrant population in 'Murica are from Europe.
I bet this person is one of those "actually, I'm 1/8th Irish" people...
It is certainly more diverse lol
American moment
Because Europe is so fucking homogenous that we stared 2 world wars just because we agree so much
Well, we could agree on those two things, at least…
We agreed so much in the past that the 30 years war could never have happened in Euro... Oh.
They agree with eachother so much in eastern Europe that there are no wars and everyone just hugs. Oh wait.
If you think saying “that nation isnt homogenous” means “all other nations are homogenous” you probably shouldnt weigh in on adult convos
The US is smaller than Europe in size of population and in area.
Idk, how come we need to fund your wars?
Which war? Help me out here. Vietnam? Iraq? Korea? I'm lost here ... Oh wait....
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So your answer is "I could tell you, but I won't " and a personal attack? Talk about "not flattering on you".
So: which war the EU is involved in are you "funding"?
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Nah. Those corps will still do it at home or sell it as PR at home.
For $100,000 the US Congress will tell you!
Sorry, our country is currently on fire 😕
I'm a bit surprised, this time it took them so long I thought they stopped about even pretending.
I'm a Linux guy and I don't really care about Windows, but I'm glad to see this happening and every day I thank Europe for being the main entity fighting for regulation of big tech monopolies, because America is really failing.
America is getting paid to do it.
Maybe the FCC is still resisting for now.
Did you mean FTC?
Not sure anymore. Maybe both I guess
That’s what I was talking about: theverge.com/…/fcc-anti-digital-discrimination-pa…
Its nuts that during the Obama admin, all anyone cared about was the threat of zero privacy. Now everyone in the US has surrendered to it, because our politicians have sold our digital privacy rights to the tech companies.
If we had actual IT giants in Europe, this would look very different.
I’ve seen how the car industry in Germany only got a slap on the wrist because of Dieselgate and even got the chance to send out advertisement payed by the government.
I feel like the only reason stuff like this gets pushed so hard is because we try to slow down the current IT giants until we get our shit together.
I’m glad that we do it, but i wouldn’t say we are better than anyone else.
Thanks for the honest take, a lot of people get caught up in the idea that if an organization does something that aligns with them, they are good or doing it for the same reasons.
I mean we have SAP but they are probably not affected by this law.
SAP
All my homies hate SAP
There is a lot of protectionism at the heart of the EU. They are quite happy to heavily regulate Big Tech when it’s not based in their own market. Unfortunately they don’t have quite the same passion for nurturing the European tech industry as much as stifling the foreign ones.
They are it purely fighting these fights for the greater good, or they wouldn’t also be pushing things like the recent browser certificate debacle.
Yeah because dieselgate was a travesty and all companies have a moral obligation to find ways around the idiocy of the US EPA as they actively make our cars more harmful to the environment by writing poorly thought out rules that encourage larger vehicles as well as completely failing to understand how to calculate diesel emissions for vehicles in a sensible manner.
Nah, it still would be much harder.
Because the EU exists out of many different countries with each their own government.
To lobby something through you have to bribe the majority of them, instead of just one.
I wonder if Windows in Non-EU areas does not have this kind of choice.
Well, does not matter, I use Linux, too.
California is doing okay, all things considered
How do you know someone uses Linux?
Don’t worry they’ll tell you
Hey hey hey, don’t just go around generalizing. Not all Linux users are like that (but I am, and I use arch BTW).
Like I’m sure we’re bound to find at least ONE Linux user who doesn’t tell.
That would be mee
Opsi
I use Linux (one that’s based on Arch btw) Make one guess at:
Seriously, how am I supposed to keep quiet when I find a clearly superior choice? Especially when most people feel a psychological barrier to trying it, that turns out to be not nearly as big as the adcantages.
at least meat-reduced diet
vim
Exactly! I use neovim as a full IDE (got started quickly using the nvchad template). And I think you know which “at least meat-reduced” diet is most associated with evangelizing ;)
diet: coffee
editor: vim
:wq
Points for the editor, but weirdly enough, not a lot of coffee (<1 per day) and I didn’t drink coffee at all before a few weeks ago.
ed?
As a Linux user (and ex arch user btw), I’m deeply offended.
This apparently only applies to Europe, say least for now.
Wait for it. Slow roll outs
EU is very much a mixed bag. On the one hand, they do this, on the other hand, they tried to ban P2P encryption and microtargetted religious and elderly in resisting countries, feeding them the classic “it’s for the children’s safety” lies.
Though we have to remind ourselves that it’s mainly the EU Commission who does this.
The Supreme Court spoke out against it from the very beginning, the Parliament voted against it, it’s really only the Commission who doesn’t want to understand that EU law applies to them, too.
Quite a few positions in there that need to be held by new people who understand the damn law.
America is a huge corporation.
America empowers these bozos
I’m one illness or accident from being financially ruined, what do you really expect me to do about it?
Start a revolution.
damn, Europe is wild!
Fake
Source for it being fake?
He’s just being an ass. He commented this on the post about RCS on iPhone
Saw the user in another thread writing the same.
Blocked the user because it pollutes the good quality comments.
I don’t know. We need those types of comments just to make the good ones pop out even more.
Kind of like how we need the bad times to enjoy the good times even more.
But will they let you disable tracking and telemetry?
You wanna guess?
I already know the answer. Windows isn’t the product. We’re the product.
I just switched to Linux. Get fucked!
and that’s the only long-term winning move, because MS shenanigans will never end
I may have lost my sound card drivers, but at least I’ve not got to put up with windows (don’t worry I’ve got an external soundcard)!
Exactly. All the latest chaos that Microsoft does, you know you’ll be immune and your desktop will be the same for as long as you get bored of it lol.
My laptop gets the fun experiments, my desktop plays the games
Same except in reverse lol. My laptop is out of date fedora because I’m lazy to update since it’s a youtube/twitch machine pretty much. My desktop gets the bleeding edge + games.
I’m testing stuff on my old ThinkPad!
I’m team Linux as well
I, really really want to switch to Linux. I duel boot and use Linux for study. but there are some apps I just can’t get around, and have to switch back to Windows for. I ran some cool scripts that stripped Windows of bloat and uninstalled edge and ads, and I have to say. it’s almost as nice as Linux now. runs faster too.
Honestly what finally pushed me was when windows suddenly decided that going to sleep and keeping on sleeping was too much to ask for. Haven’t found anything that doesn’t work on Linux yet, but I mostly play games.
Its a bit of drama but if you have a look at setting up qemu with virtual machine manager its worthwhile.
It makes virtual machines that directly utilize the hardware, meaning you can run your stripped out windows inside a window on your Linux desktop.
Its pretty hard to get your GPU to pass through but if its non-gpu oriented apps you need its perfect. My fixed windows VM boots in about 10 seconds, has next to zero network usage, uses 2 cpus and 4gb of ram, and just runs its couple of little apps no trouble every day
I’ll check this out ty
You need 2 GPUs (essentially) for GPU passthrough to work correctly. I gave it a go once and it never worked correctly. Absolutely right for non GPU apps though, or with some VM’s, older games.
Same, but I switched back today. DaVinci Resolve doesn’t support AAC audio on Linux, even on the paid version (literally everything uses AAC audio). The closest thing to any kind of usable photo editor is photopea, and that’s web only.
Linux is just unusable for media creation, unfortunately.
I really wish the affinity suite would make a linux version.
Same. That would help a lot.
Unless your media is made in Blender, then it’s pretty good. Inkscape has been getting nicer, too.
But that’s about it, yeah.
Man I miss Linux, I swear one day I’ll install it on my old Mac, at least as a funny project.
I might upgrade now from 10. Imagine giving what consumers want.
Imagine being forced to give what consumers want due to European legislation.
Welcome to the American tech industry.
RCS and this? Seems hell has indeed frozen over in the tech world today.
What’s the rcs thing? Is Apple finally going to adopt it?
Hey yeah. Funny how I learned about this on a thread about Windows, but whatever!
Ha! Good point
Yep, they said a software update is coming next year.
Probably part of their legal appeal to get themselves removed from the Digital Services Act… something they’re a niche player in the messaging services industry… Never mind the fact iMessage has billions of users sending a quarter million messages per second.
Wow completely unexpected
Just Europe, doing Europe things.
Bless the EU
This is Microsoft… What’s the catch?
I think it only applies to Europe
Most likely, they have “N” versions for some time for EU regulated countries
itprotoday.com/…/what-are-windows-10-n-and-kn-edi…
Ya, then just install the N version. It’s not some weird region locked thing. If you tell Microsoft you don’t have a product key, you’ll get a list of windows versions you can install, and you just select the N version.
They give windows away for free? If you don’t have a key wouldn’t they tell you to buy it?
Windows put a watermark on your desktop and locks you out of personalization if you don’t pay.
Watermark can be disabled with a simple registry editor change. Or the entirety of windows can just be activated with a single command prompt command.
Even if you’re not into pirating, you can use windows without a key without issues. They honestly don’t care.
Their main income is from businesses. They don’t care what an individual user does.
That said, most motherboards already have a license key for Windows attached. Or you can just use a Windows 7 or 8 key you have laying around. I believe they wanted to stop being able to do this, but it still isn’t implemented.
I wonder whether Microsoft makes enough money on analytics and ads worldwide, minus Europe, to split off a separate dev team. I hope not, but I think they do… Please choose the easier, objectively better option and just make these a checkbox for everyone, windows.
Just in time for Windows 10 going out of support. I guess the next time Windows nags my wife about updating to 11 I can tell her to go ahead.
Uninstall Bing? When did Bing become an installable thing?
They probably mean your browser/search engine settings will actually be respected, instead of what sometimes happens now where you can have set everything to not use bing or edge but still certain MS software will launch a search in edge, using bing.
Wow, that’s a hellscape straight out of 2008.
It’s probably not about that, but Bing is actually integrated in the start/search menu by default.
So it won’t force Secure boot anymore?
LOL
that’s for locking out Linux,
I seem to recall this also applies to WebKit on iOS. Thank god.
Holy shit I am going back to Windows then!
Omg, I can’t believe this is happening !!
Today when I updated Windows11, I got copilot and we were discussing how it’s unacceptable to not let me uninstall Microsoft Edge, well I was, Copilot was just chilling it, but it did agree eventually
But this is only happening in Europe, which means Microsoft didn’t suddenly turn pure hearted, it’s just the law forcing them into it …
Yeah this isn’t as good as it sounds, the other 5 continents are still stuck with all of this garbage.
If they don’t make it international, they’re asking for piracy
They’ll just enable/disable features based on geolocation. I doubt it’ll be a whole different version like in the good old days.
If that’s the case then a determined user could enable these hidden features via Powershell, only time will tell
Yup, but then you’ll still have the same frustration we have now, running the script every time there’s a feature update and the bloat gets reinstalled. If it wasn’t for games and work I’d be using nothing but macOS and Linux.
same , although I don’t play games…
And I’ll never use Apple products, one abuser ( Microsoft ) is enough for me
I used to be super anti-apple but now buy MacBooks for the longevity. Less ewaste. Over time actually more cost effective. My daily driver is a nearly 9 year old MacBook that I replaced the battery on 2 years ago. Still getting official updates too. My father laid out twice the price of it for a high end XPS machine in 2019 and it died inside 5 years. Apple actually fix manufacturing issues without a huge amount of fuckery like HP/dell. I can’t speak to iPads and iPhones but Macs just last longer so end up being cheaper in the long run.
Skill issue, what’s stopping other countries from creating better laws?
The problem is that showing enough politicians money effectively makes you become the government. There’s minimal chance of a law being introduced unless a rich person or corporation backs it, and EU laws would interfere with their shady business practices.
Not big enough to force companies to make large changes. The US is, China and India are. But what about Australia or New Zealand? Or any of the individual south american countries? Too many changes, microsoft or one of the other big players will just pull out of the market, or threaten to pull out.
If they already have a version compatible with EU law, they will just roll it out instead of removing an entire country from their market.
Would be a bad business move otherwise.
Of course, only if the laws don’t force even more restrictions.
That would be wonderful. They would no longer be able to enforce their patents in countries they don’t trade in; GNU/Linux users worldwide will have (patent infringing) access to the Australian/NZ version of whatever
It would suck for the games I play that need windows, but it would also give more incentive to those to port them to Linux
Lobbying, at least here in the US.
I was going to say, this sounds fantastical in some places.
I got Dev Home on my home rig. Swifly executed the powershell command to uninstall thr sYsTeMs aPp.
Fuck off MS.
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We don’t need another web based app…Just give us the .deb, .exe, .msi or whatever…
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No thanks. I don’t need more apps bloating up my browser and slowing it down even more. Plus what if they don’t support my choice of browser? Now we’re back to square one. Just port the programs over to run on the OS. Much less headache that way
That’s more finger printing to get tracked by, no thanks. I like to keep my browser apps slim and generic as possible to blend in with other privacy concerned people.
At th same time, I 100% understand why you would find it appealing, and recognize it may very well be a good thing overall.
Lots of things already have Linux alternatives; I’ve heard people mostly stay on Linux for the anticheat-enabled games that are usually only one developer setting away from Linux compatibility.
Wrappers can be used to do it locally.
Some Android apps are basically nothing more than a web agent.
Give me the basics of the web end with a pretty html5 rendered front end locally and done. No need for web apps for which you are required to be online at all times.
I can’t think of tasks that can only be done with MS. unless you mean playing specific games, then that could be something
excel VBA macros is very bad on Linux
if you’re stuck on Excel VBA macros and are not open to other options, then you get what you deserve
Valve only started doing 2-hour refunds after Australia twisted their arm about it. They brought it to the world, and it became an incredible selling point. Perhaps this will be the same thing.
Yeah, I hope so 🤞
Valve is a lot more consumer friendly to begin with, though. Don’t get me wrong, they did heaps of bad things too, but compared to Microsoft?
I’m not gonna hold my breath on this one
I wonder if this also applies to allow uninstalling Safari browser on MacOS, and allow other browser engines into iOS devices instead of WebKit Safari clones.
I would be so happy if they just let browser extensions work on 3rd party browsers. They already force them to use WebKit. Why are the extensions not working?
Yeah! How about allowing uninstallation of Chrome from Android?!
Oh god yes, would love that.
And all those dumb bloatware browsers on Samsung devices as well
EU to the rescue once again.
It does specify the European economic area for (EEA) for these changes. Looks like I’m living in Europe ;)
Get ready for that sweet € symbol everywhere. I live in Brexitland so I can sort of get by with Ireland as a region, but it’s not great if you’re wishing to see your own decimal separators etc.
Your region and your region format are 2 separate things.
You can just change to whatever currency you want while remaining in Europe.
Ah, learnt something new. That’s awesome. I’ve always wanted to live in Ireland!
Wow, are we getting Windows N again?
What happened with RCS?
What about RCS?
I wish Apple would let me uninstall Apple Music and stop media keys opening it by default.
You can delete Apple Music
On iOS, when you delete a system app, all you’re doing is removing user data and the configuration files for it.
On Android, when you disable a system app, all you’re doing is removing user data and the configuration files for it.
In both scenarios, the app is still retained. You’ve only removed it from your home screen and anywhere it may appear in actions.
support.apple.com/en-gb/100567
Because the app is still functionally there. This has been the case since Apple introduced the feature in iOS 10.
On MacOS?
Thank god for Europe!
god has nothing to do with it
You know what I mean. Sheesh.
Thank our lizard Queen in heaven.
I do understand - but as a society we’re working to remove unnecessary gendered terms from our language. I believe in doing similar with religious terms.
Language is important. If we’re thanking a deity for the work of government it’s both minimalising the work of elected representatives and exclusionary to other cultures.
In this moment, you are euphoric.
Ramen brother, Ramen!
Now there will be two versions of Windows. One that adheres to EU regulation, and another that’s filled with ads for everyone else.
There sort of already is howtogeek.com/…/what-is-an-n-or-kn-edition-of-win…
Windows 12 Euro Trash Edition and Windows 12 Red Blooded God Anointed American Edition. If either crosses the EU boarder the computer will explode killing everyone in a 10 meter radius.
I feel like that might also violate some regulations
Yes, American munitions export controls
Alright. What about Windows 12: European cringe edition?
regulations that stifle innovation baby 😎
And the Geneva convention
It’ll be one version, they’ll just force certain “features” on you based on the region you’re in as determined by your system time, GPS location, or IP address
They can all easily be spoofed or changed.
Wait what happened with RCS?
It is coming to iOS “next year”
Well that’s unexpected
Maybe Apple is learning to implement things themselves before regulators force them to.
Why would they do that?
Regulators step harder
Yup. If regulators make the rules, the rules are gonna be stricter and they’re gonna come with punishments for not complying.
If Apple satisfies regulators enough that the regulators turn their attention somewhere else before putting anything on the books, Apple wins.
How do I trick my computer into thinking I’m in Europe?
Better yet, trick your local legislator to get equivalent regulations implemented.
Sign up for this video’s sponsor, NordVPN
Obligatory Mullvad > Nord
If it’s how the did the earlier EU versions (no inbuild IE or media player), there’ll be an N version of windows for the EU market.
Change your region location.
I’m genuinely worried if hell is okay, are you guys getting a tad chilly?
We’ve somehow managed to create reverse climate change in the unholy fires themselves
Next up to freeze: Google’s unholy war on ad-blockers. A decisive blow to that would make this a holy trilogy 😄
IT Sysadmin from the non-profit circle checking in. It’s actually unseasonably warm right now.
I can’t speak for the pharmaceutical IT, Medical IT, metal fabrication IT, bakery IT, education IT, or embedded systems IT circles, though. Might be getting nippy over thereabouts.
This sounds to good to be true… What’s the catch? A monthly subscription??
They say that you will be able to remove these, not that they will not install them, so…
What is the point of Microsoft keeping Edge when most people avoid it?
How are you going to download Chrome?
Did you mean Firefox?
What is the general consensus on Opera these days?
Its chrome.
Imagine browser privacy concerns somehow being worse than chrome.
Without installing things like red star os first.
Chinese spying device
Powershell
Enough don’t avoid it.
It allows them to scrap more data and push their web services. It also gives them leverage in web standards completion. The have a browser and user base that they can diverge from chrome.
With the revelations coming out due to the court cases. Microsoft might be (or at least aiming to) get a cut of Google revenue like apple gets for safari users. Google is probably very happy that edge (which is 99% chrome) is the default in most desktops.
I usually use Firefox, but sometimes a website won’t work on it, for example so web apps like Adobe Express just refuse to work. In these cases I use Edge, not Chrome anymore. Between the two, Edge has better privacy and has some really nice features. It also works better with my work stuff thanks to integration with 365.
What I’m going with this is that there’s definitely a user base for Edge. Between it and Chrome, I’d go with Edge any day. Firefox still beats both though.
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I will do whatever it takes for my non-European windows install to behave like a European windows install.
If I got rid of ads on windows if be much happier with the OS and would not have such a grudge against using it.
I can’t wait until benchmarks are run on the two versions side by side to see if it impacts battery life and or performance.
If you used Linux your OS wouldn’t be trying to subvert your well being by casually manipulating you while you are just trying to get shit done.
Instead you’d be fuckin around with drivers and unsupported software while you are just trying to get shit done.
Nope I just buy supported hardware and software that works without difficulty which I’ve been doing since 2003.
And now you’ve gone from ‘Install an alternate OS’ to ‘Buy a new computer that supports an alternate OS’.
We get it. Linux exists. I doubt there is a single Lemmy user who is unaware that Linux is a thing. We are already using it or have valid reasons to not be using it.
Some of us require Windows to do our work.
Takes 5 minutes to try a live session. Not much more time then you spent on this thread. Less time than you spent on Netflix watching a episode of this or that.
This is kind of intellectually dishonest don’t you think? It both ignores the fact that Linux runs on the majority of hardware and invites us to pretend that Linux users are constantly buying random windows machines and hoping they work. It’s nice that Linux supports so much hardware that you can pick a random machine and have it probably work well but if you do decide to use on your PC logically when you do buy a new machine its apt—pun intended—to be something you picked explicitly because it’s supported.
The question is really just a question of whether the user prefers one environment or the other.
Given that you managed to miss what I said, I’ll reiterate: I know about Linux. Pretty-much everyone here knows about Linux. Evangalising about Linux is not useful. I’ve been running it, and making my living off my knowledge of Linux for over 25 years. At home, I have four computers and three of them exclusively run variants of Linux.
No. You literally said “Nope I just buy supported hardware and software that works without difficulty which I’ve been doing since 2003.” in response to the very valid issue raised that Windows has better hardware support. I personally happen to disagree with that statement, I think the hardware support for older hardware in particular is much better in Linux than Windows. But for newer hardware, Windows drivers come before Linux drivers for very obvious reasons.
I also need to use Windows for work. My primary workstation runs Windows. This isn’t a matter of preference. There are many valid reasons for running Windows. And because of that, this headline is relevant to many people here.
I’ve used Linux for years but always come back to Windows because I’ve never had a completely perfect distro, even the first party stuff. I already dick around with software at work and hardware at home. The last thing I want is to spend another dozen hours figuring out why copy/paste stopped working and how I go about fixing that on a forum from 2006.
Right? Sometimes you just want to unwind instead of doing even more bug fixing during your spare time.
Please don’t force Linux as a religious zealot forces their way on other people. Some like it, some are in the fence and some will never use it for wherever personal reason.
Proud mint user here, don’t get me wrong
If they are specifically dissatisfied with the way Windows is working and will always work and feel up to try to modify it to work less shitty they are probably exactly the group that should switch to Linux or pony up the money for a Mac.
Every OS can break and every OS can be tweaked. What’s your problem?
I totally get that people are tired of seeing Linux recommendations but…
Pointing out that there is an alternative without the same issues is hardly “forcing Linux as a religious zealot forces their way on other people”
That’s a bit hyperbolic imo
Everyone knows there are alternatives. Even if it is just Mac.
No need to bring up your specific flavour of OS.
Until you can’t game at 4k, 120hz, with an HDR high resolution display.
But, from the most recent time I tried it: Display scaling doesn’t always work (150% UI). 2x worked fine, it is supposed to work fine with wayland, but wayland didn’t seem to like nvidia drivers. Many anti cheats don’t work. WoW didn’t work (though it should based off the wine compatibility reviews). Bluetooth had issues (didn’t reconnect on startup I think).
While I’d love to change to linux, every time it’s always been inferior for my personal use cases. As windows gets worse, and linux gets better, eventually the time will come when I switch. But for a great many people, the support simply isn’t there yet.
I don’t get why Linux users don’t understand that they are part of like a 1% bubble. 99% of people would not enjoy Linux. I’m a Pop Os user myself and seeing what I have to do sometimes to get simple everday things to work that work right out of the box in Windows and MacOs is rediculus. No normie would ever figure out what to do even when googling. Linux is an exclusive Pc enthusiast operating system. Even the beginner friendly distros are not “dump proof” enough for the regular person. There is no use in advocating it on every problem post from Windows or MacOs. You’re doing no one a favor with it.
Its actually more like 2.x% and its a lot higher in some segments like developer. The fact that the most popular phone OS on the planet is based on Linux is trivial proof that you can make an experience that is desirable and usable by the majority of people based on the same technology.
That said android isn’t really that simple if you come to it there is actually plenty of complexity both in terms of interfaces that vary between manufacturer and features. If we were to consider for instance Linux Mint running cinnamon I wouldn’t say the complexity of Mint/Cinnamon is higher than android.
I actually use Linux on everything other than my work computer due to needing a few programs that absolutely will not work on Linux and do not have Linux alternatives.
Yeah turns out businesses behave when you legislate their misdeeds instead of just calling them job creators
Wait, what’s the RCS news you’re referring to OP?
Apple announced RCS support is coming
Expardon me?!
9to5mac.com/2023/…/apple-rcs-coming-to-iphone/
Checkmate! This is great news 😁
Is it? RCS can only be used the way Google wants it to be used, as far as I understand it. Which doesn’t do much for the consumer.
It’s an open specification, though Google started it, and Apple is going to be contributing to the organization that oversees it. Specifically they said they want to add support for end to end encryption… So they are already steering the spec in new directions.
FUCK YEAH! EAT SHIT MICROSOFT!
I mean…I still would’ve blocked the ads no matter what. I paid for my computer it’s mine and I should be allowed to control it.
As an American, all I can say is thank you Europe for continuing to have sensible legislation that forces these companies to have decent policies worldwide if only to comply with EU laws. I only use Windows on my company provided laptop but just because I don’t need to worry about it personally doesn’t mean that I shouldn’t care about how it affects others.
We’re basically dependent on the EU and California to have any rights as consumers at all.
That’s pretty crazy when I think about it. And I’m from within the EU.
Don’t forget California’s emissions standards effectively forcing car manufacturers to make more efficient vehicles for the entire NA market!
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I read elsewhere that this good news only benefits EU users of Windows 11.
VPN go brrrr. Now you’re an EU user.
As far as i understand it it doesn’t even check your location. It checks the Language & Region in your initial Pc Setup steps. So you have to reset your pc to do that… Until someone figures an alternativ way without resetting your pc i guess.
Why would you need to reset your PC to change your region?
You can just go to region and language settings and do it there.
Microsoft needs to comply even if the laptop was originally bought outside the EU.
I could totally be wrong. That’s just something I read in a few news articles. could be a check that only triggers there that changes a few reg keys or whatever. Or it is bullshit and it works post initial setup. 🤷♂️
At least in the past this sort of thing has sometimes made it into Group Policy settings that can be set if you use the Pro version of Windows, but more and more of that is locked down.
A bunch of privacy related settings for Edge can only be set if you’re running the Education version of Windows. On Pro/Enterprise the options are available but won’t work. Microsoft is determined to make it impossible to run Windows without allowing them to do whatever they want with your data.
They are using the region setting to drive this, so it won’t be GPO enabled in a way that makes sense to do outside of the EU.
Thank you Europe. Once again you prove yourself to be what we all aspire to be.
Europe is carrying us fr
It’s a shame that this is only for users in the EEA though, I understand why they didn’t make it a blanket change, but we can dream
Hey, I’ll change to use the N version of windows if it’ll get me this feature. Forced software on your devices is something I loathe.
You probably just have to change your region to any EEA country, such as Ireland.
What happens if you uninstall edge and you don’t have any other browsers?
How do you reinstall it or install a different one without a secondary computer?
USB stick with a browser installer or a portable installation.
Windows will probably gladly reinstall Edge via some update service.
I remember installing Netscape Navigator and Mozilla like this across some years. But it was CD-Rs.
You can install a browser with CLI
I’m super tired and thought for a millisecond that was going to say CLIPPY.
I imagine you can install it through the Microsoft Store or via the add/remove Windows features function
Back in my days we had windows versions that didn’t come with ethernet driver
curl
into a ball and cry?
wsl --installsudo apt updatesudo apt install firefox -yYou can use winget via powershell winget install firefox
Or you use the Microsoft store to install another browser
Download file from another system.
Use wget in powershell to download it in same system.
Use winget to install browser.
Winget like everyone said. But you can also download the exe with powershell if you know the url (otherwise just download the page and have fun finding the link haha)
Hopefully you’d be able to do so from the Microsoft store
From shell
For example
At last. This is actually good news for Windows itself because people will be more inclined to use it again if they don’t see ads, aren’t tracked, can set any default browser etc.
So it’s good for both users and Microsoft.
Sometimes these corporations just can’t help themselves by adding trash and they need a mommy figure to force them to stop doing that which ultimately benefits themselves.
Thing is for me windows opened a pandora’s box that goes further than just ad-free, once I started getting into open software thanks to switching to linux, I realized it’s not just the them saying there’s no tracking, it’s the being able to see it for yourself, it’s the there being a 1000 eyes on a project that don’t have a motivation to lie to you, checking making sure that there are no trackers.
It’s no longer just sbout them saying “it’s all good we ain’t spying” it’s about a project with a thousand eyes on them making sure this is actually the case, plus the nature of most open licenses where every fork also needs to follow such license.
It’s starting to become a sort of change in how I see society working with each other and I whish there were other aspects of life where such a philosophy vould be applied.
Agree 100%. Free Software user here. Linux Mint Debian Edition is what I’m running.
I wish all software and hardware abided by the FOSS principles
They say if you don’t pay, you’re the product, but that’s obviously bullshit, paying solves nothing. The saying should be never trust corporations.
If you don’t pay, you are the product. If you pay, you are the product + you are paying.
Once steam covers 90% of games windows becomes irrelevant.
So what you’re saying is, 2024 will be the year of Linux on the desktop?
I do wonder about that, Gen Z and Alpha are less tech savvy than millennials, so there’s non zero odds that it doesn’t work out because Linux isn’t easily accessible in the tablet/phone space yet.
And no android doesn’t count
Mobile Linux is a thing, though I think it would take governments mandating unlocked/user-unlockable bootloaders to gain literally Any market share. It would also probably take a compatibility layer for running Android apps similar to Wine in desktop Linux, but Android already runs a Linux kernel, so projects like Waydroid are most of the way there already by just running Android inside a container.
They are also less wealthy than X and millennial were at first computer purchase age. GNU/Linux is cheap
The OS is but the hardware ya gotta install it on could be another story, especially with gaming distros becoming more and more common
Sure for gaming you want a pretty expensive machine, but for a user who wants web and email a used low end laptop will perform great
I think we need rock-solid Wayland before we can expect TYLD. So I’m feeling 2026 minimum, then add a couple for some padding; so 2028 realistically. Think of how far we’ve come in 5 years, then imagine 5 years more.
If Nvidia’s consumer GPU market share dropped a bit too, that’d help.
Why do you think that Wayland is necessary for adoption? In my opinion it is the missing hardware drivers, compatability issues and “getting your hands dirty” while constantly tweaking stuff. Yeah it got better over the years, but most people want things to just work.
Wayland is necessary because Wayland will be necessary in the near future, if it was next year then that would put a lot of people who don’t know about X.Org and Wayland through a major shift which could rock-the-boat a bit too much and cause them to go back to Windows for the “just works” experience.
Look, I just finally tried steam on Linux and the game booted up. I am absolutely amazed as I thought I’d never see that day. Also windows is somehow just getting worse and worse. It’s like they just want an entire ad platform. They lost me at this point. I have 0 need for any ms products again and that’s a great feeling.
but WHY is it necessary??
But which distro though?
I know that phrase is the most beaten dead horse around at this point but the year of the Linux desktop is going to be different depending on what your requirements are.
If you just need to browse the web, it’s been there for over a decade. Same for most dev work.
For gaming, it’s already there for most titles. Pretty much everything I try works now unless it has anticheat. It’s been in a pretty good state for 2 or 3 years now at least.
For media creation and specialized software, it’s not there yet. The big stuff like adobe will probably never get ported and the free alternatives vary wildly in quality. Blender is awesome. GIMP is not. There’s also issues like lacking color management and iffy HDR support.
yes he did and if it doesn’t happen we can shame him for all eternety, but i’m right with you there buddy: 2024 lets gooooooo!
it already is irrelevant for many people
For gamers-only maybe lmao
E: and people willing to spend several hours a month wondering why their OS broke again
If you don’t tinker like the usual Linux user your os won’t break more often than windows
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As I said, not more often than windows
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Yeah people often forget the sheer amount of quality checks and testing that windows updates go through. Sure it might do annoying things like changing your default browser but it never truly breaks.
There’s also the fact that Windows native antivirus is so good that installing antivirus software is actually a downgrade. On Linux meanwhile you gotta run third party antivirus.
In my experience windows just breaks as often. Depending on hardware and software used.
Yes it might be better for windows 11 I haven’t run that yet. And windows 10 almost never broke either so it is maybe better now
It literally almost never happens for windows yet Linux is generally most famous by this one thing
It should not happen if you use debian, Ubuntu or Mint stable. As long you don’t do anything exotic it should not break, at not since 2018.
And if it breaks remember you compare free software made by volunteers (and paid employees from companies) with much less money and they still manage to compete with the multi billion dollar company Microsoft.
It was on
UbuntuDebianIs exactly what I’m trying to say… this is why Linux will not be ever better unless it is an actual product that can have real money poured into it. Except they don’t really “manage to compete”. Unless you count 1vs99 as non-laughable competition. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to use something else but as of right now, nothing can really compare with stability and being “plug and play”
Windows updates break my clock… Idk about this claim that it doesn’t break stuff.
This comment is a prime example of a drowning man trying to pull up by the straw
I don’t follow… And that’s not an actual expression
If you stick to Ubuntu you usually don’t have that problem IMHO.
Hmm. My partner’s Linux machine is perfectly stable and has been for a decade. I administer it for them, but that’s just running updates and distribution upgrades every now and then
My server takes more effort, as distribution upgrades sometimes break stuff, for example the mailing list manager I have used for a long time became deprecated and was disabled on the recent LTS upgrade
My laptop running Ubuntu from the factory is perfectly fine, I’ll probably make it less stable by moving it to Debian
As long as many important games fall into that 10% many gamers won’t consider Linux.
Not to mention Adobe/Office/CAD suites that will prevent others from switching.
And finally most pcs are sold with windows preinstalled and the vast majority of people don’t even know that other OS even exist.
Also a lot of high end medical equipment. Some stuff will only work/communicate with Windows XP, even today, for instance.
This is terrible news for everyone like me that wants to incessantly tell people to switch to Linux. While I’m here, do it. Any distro other than Ubuntu and it’s deranged derivatives please.
I mean it’s a good thing they are doing this, but I was kinda hoping they would go full suicide like unity or musk’s twatter. It’s also too little too late. They should allow straightforward telemetry disabling.
Agreed that Linux is better. Disagreed on Ubuntu, that is a fantastic distro.
Also, let people use what they want, you’re not the fsf.
How do they verify that I’m in the EEA? Do I need to sign up through a VPN when I register Windows or do I just specify an EEA country during the install?
So apparently having consumer-friendly laws does in fact lead to better products. Cool.
Perhaps the USA and other countries should follow the EU’s good example on this.
But socialism! They’re all gonna be starving and homeless! Any day now…
(they’re starving and homeless under capitalism)
must be evil socialisms fault /s
USA politicians are paid for and if anything they will never do this in fact they will do the exact opposite and make it easier for corporations to exploit people.
Based EU.
Regulation works.
This is the first time I saw a post get over 1000 upvotes in 15 hours.
Brussels Effect at work again.
Does this also mean Google will let me uninstall Chrome from my Android device? Or is this only about PC’s?
I hope we will get there too. Be able to fully install and uninstall Google services.
I hope the ability to install whatever OS on your phone that you want will become mandated and the default for all cell phones.
Even if this was allowed. Surely most apps wont run anymore in the name of security
Not really, most OS for phones are android based anyway. Having the choice of an ungoogled android is always a plus, much like many people just want an ungoogled chrome
This is unenforceable really. Android is a monolithic OS, it’s very architecture would have to be reengineered, and then phone manufacturers would have to design their system drivers to be independent and distributable.
Windows is modular, this comes from the standard BIOS that came out of the bios wars in the 80’s. Having a standard hardware interface enables this.
Phones don’t have this.
No it’s not, just mandate unlocked or user-unlockable bootloaders, the open source Android dev community will do the rest. There would be degoogled custom ROMs and full linux (eg Ubuntu touch, postmarketOS, etc.) ports for every reasonably popular device within months.
You can already do that if you buy a phone that is compatible with LineageOS or other open source ROMs.
Chrome browser? I could uninstall that right away.
That’s already possible either by using a custom ROM or by connecting to a PC and using adb.
We shouldn’t have to rely on 3rd parties for that.
ADB is very much 1st party.
Android debug bridge very 3rd party /s
…what happened? Did someone in upper management realize, it would be more expensive to suck?
No, it’s because it the EU
What i said.
No, it’s regulations. Companies are too dumb to save themselves. That’s why they need to get bailed out every once in a while.
I think they meant that the fines would be too expensive so they complied.
Huh, so not in Switzerland?
I believe Switzerland is not a part of the EU
Yes, and not on the list. Still, that small country in the center of EU…
I’m moving to the EU.
With your username, you’d do great in the Netherlands
I’m considering going to Flanders instead. I actually made my username like that on purpose.
I don’t think people will like me based on my ethnic background alone, though.
What’s your ethnic background? Kardashian?
That’s hilarious.
But no, I’m actually Moroccan. I bet prisons in Western Europe are filled with those.
I know a few Moroccan people living in Europe. They’re doing alright. If you’re a decent person and are willing to learn about the culture that hosts you (without losing your roots, of course), you should do fine.
Duh, that’s what I plan on doing anyway. After all, it’s much easier to live in a different society if you’re already integrated into it.
Nice, Mr. van Lemmy!
Thanks, mate.
Adesso è godopoli
Will they?
Or will you just be able to hide them?
Start menu, search suggestions from the start menu. They can be disabled/hidden from view so you may have done so while customizing Windows?
It seems in some cases when it comes to protecting you from industry practices can only be handled by government agencies.
is EU based or something
Uh… Yes. Yes we are.
Does Linux let you disable its system-embedded advertisements? Didn’t think so!
I just wish it would stop showing me ads for Linus’ Only Fans. Like, I already subbed, please go away.
.
It does.
sudo pro config set apt_news=falseandsudo truncate -s0 /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20apt-esm-hook.confBut I feel sorry for you if you are still using Ubuntu at this point.
Why?
Which flavor?
.
I always hear people complaining about ads on their win 11 and it confuses me, as I’ve never seen a single ad in my win 11 install.
In what section are the ads showing up?
On the widgets board and the news app. It’s shown up in occasional other locations
I use the News app only on accident sometimes, so I’m not certain about that. There has definitely never been an ad on my widget board. Are there any differences in Win 11 Pro to other versions?
I also paid like 18€ for a key and did a fresh install instead of an upgrade if that makes any difference.
It’s possible. Straight out of the box, computers and laptops tend to come with all sort of bloatware, both Microsoft’s own and the vendor’s.
The start menu in win10 was the main place to see ads, but anyone with minor computer knowledge could turn it off.
Only in EU/EEA countries. So us here in
GileadAmerica are SOL at the momentIt’s because of this that I stopped using windows. Now that steam allows Linux gaming I have no need to revert to that os.
Are multiplayer titles with anti cheat (Call of Duty, Valorant, etc) able to be played yet? It’s the only thing holding me back.
No
Adobe and MS Office for me are far bigger reasons for me.
EAC is on Linux now, don’t know about any other ones.
I think its largely dependent on the game and what anti cheat they use.
I’m desperately waiting for a reputed company like Samsung to ditch windows and introduce linux pre-installed laptops
Like Dell?
Samsung once used tizen instead of android just like that, Their own distro would increase traction in this platform
Dell’s Linux support is laughable. I have the distinct displeasure of dealing with their shit quality right now. Camera doesn’t work, fans spin up for no reason, graphics card stutters / sometimes there’s no hardware acceleration… Actual linux shops like system76, purism, tuxedocomputers, slimbook, and other better hardware, better pricing, and better hardware support.
Dell, Fujitsu, HP, etc. are OK as Linux hardware providers, but it’s clear that their main business is till WIndows.
System 76
There was a brief moment in the 2000s where major manufacturers were selling computers with Linux preinstalled. A lot of netbooks and thin clients had Ubuntu as an option.
I was not born then🙁
You can (could?) get Thinkpads with Ubuntu preinstalled.
ThinkPad is no longer a good computer for GNU/Linux
Simply having the option is a good start, but a lot of people would buy those and ask “a friend” to install windows instead. I’ve seen that happen quite often in the early 2010s
isn’t Android based on Linux?
Samsung a reputed company? The Samsung of the ad-ridden smart TVs?
Doesn’t Samsung have nutty bloatware too?
Framework make good laptops that can come with Ubuntu
As a Linux user, this is freaking funny.
Even better as a Windows 10 user - get to avoid the issues with version 11 and the issues with Linux!
W10 also has Edge bundled as system software.
I was more poking fun at the whole Lemmy circlejerk that Linux is the most amazing OS ever built and can do anything without fault.
? Thanks for the heads up, not sure how it’s really relevant.
Your original comment mentioned this…
I responded with the end of life date for Windows 10 to let you know that those are depending on staying on Windows 10 can only do so for a limited amount of time, and hence only have a limited time of avoiding issues with Windows 10. That’s the relevance.
You can say this about all software though? Linux also won’t be around forever… So it’s somewhat irrelevant.
First, we’re talking about OS’s, and not software in general. Please don’t use a debate tactic to move the goal posts.
Second, nope, you can’t, so it is relevant. Linux has always been here when other OSs have come and gone (OS/2 anyone?).
To your original comment…
Just to reiterate, Windows 10 has a shelf life that is very much shorter than Linux’s, so you won’t be a Windows 10 user for much longer.
Regardless of how you feel about this and/or Windows vs. Linux, you’ll need to plan for it.
Make the smart move, you’ll benefit more financially and otherwise for doing so.
Windows has always been free for me so it’s no big issue. But yes, as a current Windows 10 user my point still stands that the best of both worlds is using it IMO. Have the widest support for games and can easily remove any bloatware you want from it already.
You are the one who originally changed the goal posts about it being changed in 2 years time and that being an issue. I’ll worry about that in 2 years time - for all we know Microsoft will extend the support.
But also to your point, Linux is very young itself so you can’t expect it to always be around. Once it’s around for 100+ years sure, but I just don’t see that being a thing. There’ll come a time where it’s no longer relevant.
That link, which it seems you haven’t read, is from Microsoft directly, stating their EoL date, so no, that won’t change.
You truly don’t know what you speak of (the italicized part). It’s 32 years old.
That’s not changing the goalpost.
You said you have Windows 10, so you can avoid Windowd 11 and it’s issues that it has that we have all been discussing in this thread.
All I did was respond with that you won’t have Windows 10 forever, so you won’t be able to avoid Windows 11, which you acknowledged…
Yes, I’m glad companies never change their minds about their policies. When they set a date they always keep to it and have never gone back to it due to consumer demand. Oh except they do that a fair bit. Guess we’ll just have to see what Microsoft actually does when it comes time.
32 years is indeed young lol. Maybe you are young yourself so it seems older? There are companies that are hundreds of years old that have gone bankrupt in the last few decades, why would Linux be any different? Again, it may work for now but who knows in the future. But 32 years is nothing. There are older Unix-based systems like Itron and QNX still around and commonly used, but not sure they’ll last.
And to your last point, I can just keep Windows 10 past 2025… It’s not like lack of support forces me up. Do you not realize how many people still use unsupported versions? Check out the XP life cycle: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_XP#Support_lifecy…
95% of ATM’s were still using it for example 5 years after mainstream support ended.
So I wasn’t going to bother replying, thinking you were either just trolling, or a bot, but my curiosity got the best of me, so I am replying with just one question…
Are you actually aware of the genesis, history, and current status of the ownership of Linux?
I wonder if this affects any of the telemetry systems they use to send user data back to the mothership (Microsoft servers)? I haven’t looked into it in a while but there used to be a powershell script to disable a lot of it in the registry.
Hell has truly frozen over. I guarantee that uninstalling edge will break something else in Windows
It does.
It breaks URLs/URIs in OneNote. Its fixable, so it’s clearly the fault of the uninstaller.
The reg key for the default html handler is wiped.
.
It won’t. System components / apps use the edge webview 2 runtime that is a separate component from the Edge browser itself.
All for a $12 a month subscription!
The sad thing is that this happens because someone forces them to comply and not out of principle.
Why would they though and out of which which principle? Microsoft’s principle is “generate as much profit as possible without antagonizing customers to much”. Microsoft is, at its core, a profit driven business and not a business driven by ethics.
So… It’s a business
Err basically yes. In my head there’s a difference between “business driven by profit” and “business driven by ethics”, but maybe that’s because English is not my first language.
I live in the UK, and because of Brexit we won’t get this. Thanks Nigel Farage.
I expect that it’s because we’re not in the EU that measures like this can be passed there. Maybe in 10-20 years time we can rejoin an EU massively improved by our absence.
Not true. There has been big moment against the MS monoply by the EU, pre-Brexit. Truth is, the UK hasn’t been powerful enough to stop these large antitrust cases for a long time. Brexit or not.
…m.wikipedia.org/…/Microsoft_Corp._v._Commission
You should still switch to Linux.
Only in the EU right? Also what’s up with RCS?
Apple is adding RCS.
Oh that’s cool.
Time for everyone to tell Microsoft we live in France!
This is cool and all, but why do we always stop at Microsoft? I think it would be more impactful in 2023 if we can uninstall Safari from iOS devices and Chrome from Android?
Didn’t we do this already back in the 90s with IE bundling??