Alphabet’s Chief Legal Officer Kent Walker, says the DOJ is pushing “a radical interventionist agenda that would harm Americans and America’s global technology leadership.”
I’m honestly curious how this would “harm Americans”.
webghost0101@sopuli.xyz
on 21 Nov 10:54
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Google pretending they have any other nationality other then “the global internet” is cute in a disgusting way.
Beldarofremulak@lemmy.world
on 21 Nov 13:26
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Everyone really does need to have that at the forefront of their mind. When the C-suit, wall street, and politicians talk about “Americans” they aren’t talking about us schlubs.
The same ruling would ban Google from paying other browsers to make Google the default search engine.
This would kill Firefox and make Chromium the only browser engine that’s left.
rockSlayer@lemmy.world
on 21 Nov 11:01
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They should force it to become a worker cooperative. It’s the only solution that doesn’t allow for corruption
My comment is more in line with the corruption aspect. As much as I think they deserve it, giving it to the employees would be more akin to them winning the lottery. In the space of a year, they will have gone public, shareholders would have stormed in and we would be at square one.
Nationalisation at least has a chance of getting rid of the money corruption aspect. Sadly, the three letter agencies are probably deep in every browser already so I don’t think any solution takes care of that.
I understand your point though. Personally, I will never use chrome no matter what happens, ha.
52fighters@lemmy.sdf.org
on 21 Nov 12:50
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The Reuters article suggests prohibiting payments to Apple so that Chrome users on their hardware default to Google search. What about default settings to Firefox? Similar agreements finance a large portion of Mozilla’s revenue.
FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world
on 21 Nov 13:21
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Admittedly, I don’t know enough about monopolies and antitrust laws to know how much this matters. Can someone ELI5 this and give us more info?
Man the Linux propaganda is STRONG on Lemmy. I’ll say what I’ve said before: I use my computer for gaming, web browsing, and managing a media server for my family that hosts pictures and other things. If those 3 things can be done easily without issue on a Linux distro without having to fuck around with configs every time I want to do something, I’m all in. By what I’ve heard though it’s just not there yet. I am super happy Steam decided to go Linux for their Steamdeck though as I’ve heard thats helped make monumental strides the right direction. Trust me, I want to. Large part of it is I worked tech support for over a decade and having to troubleshoot my own shit is like the furthest thing I want to deal with haha
You owe it to yourself to try it out! I recommend dual booting into Linux Mint Cinnamon for a while and have your windows install to fall back on to. That or one of the gaming-specific distributions, but from what I’ve seen Mint does all with gaming too. It’s a good all-around starting place, and there are a lot of resources because it’s popular and built off of the most popular distro. I installed it on my work machine (software engineering) and I’ve felt no lack of capability or a need to switch to a more “hardcore” distro.
Grandwolf319@sh.itjust.works
on 21 Nov 19:25
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Microsoft is waaay easier to avoid than fucking google. Is one drive that annoying?
ElectroLisa@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 21 Nov 13:56
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Yeah, Google pays other companies lots of money to have its search engine enabled by default. That’s what the lawsuit argued, so I’m not sure how separating chrome from the company will change that…
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 21 Nov 18:43
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It has massive market share and uses Google search by default. If another company owns the browser, they’ll likely change the default search engine, and since almost nobody changes the defaults, it’ll eat away at Google’s marketshare.
For example, Microsoft would be pretty interested in buying it to promote Bing search. Edge is already based on Chromium, so they could reuse their existing teams to offer support for it.
Showroom7561@lemmy.ca
on 21 Nov 13:58
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What does Chrome have to do with search? 🤔
themoonisacheese@sh.itjust.works
on 21 Nov 15:09
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Google is the default search engine for chrome, and chrome is the single most popular browser at about 95% market share.
Um, that wouldn’t change if Google “sells Chrome”, though.
Firefox uses Google Search as a default, so does every Samsung phone (and most other Android devices).
Unless the DOJ is telling everyone not to implement a default search engine (and let the user decide upon first opening the browser), then who owns Chrome really doesn’t change much.
Other remedies the government is asking the court to impose include prohibiting Google from offering money or anything of value to third parties — including Apple and other phone-makers — to make Google’s search engine the default,
This is the only thing that makes sense, but “sell Chrome” is a laughable request.
TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world
on 21 Nov 15:22
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What search engine does Chrome, by far and away the most used browser be it on phone or PC, use?
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world
on 21 Nov 14:10
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What the what?
“sell your browser, that’ll limit your search monopoly”
It has 67% market share, and the default search is Google.
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world
on 21 Nov 16:15
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So it is on firefox as well . . ? And also with Edge, for those poor bastards.
Why not just force them to pick a different default? Or something meaningful like splitting them out of Alphabet entirely? Or stop sucking? Okay, well that last one may be hard to administrate.
It is on FF and Edge because Google pays them a ton of money. Every person who chooses Chrome instead of FF is more money for Google because they don’t need to pay themselves to make Google the default.
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world
on 21 Nov 17:00
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A fair point, though “a ton of money” is essentially 1% of their net profits for the year. Selling Chrome to someone who gets another .5% is not going to do anything at all.
Okay but consider them taking this moment to let Elon buy it and using it to control information on the clients end 💀
masterofn001@lemmy.ca
on 21 Nov 15:48
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That would end the internet/world.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 21 Nov 17:46
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Maybe we’ll actually see people switch to Firefox if that happens.
TriflingToad@sh.itjust.works
on 21 Nov 14:35
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There’s literally so much else they should do, google docs, sheets, drive, phones, maps, earth, calendar, play store, translate, etc.
Good work, continue please.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 21 Nov 18:38
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Exactly. There are workable alternatives to most of the others, but YouTube has a stranglehold on that type of content due to the network effect. Examples of alternatives:
docs/sheets/drive - Microsoft Office 365, OnlyOffice, or self-host LibreOffice Online (through Collabora CODE builds); if you just need drive, there’s also BackBlaze, AWS, DropBox, etc
phones - I use GrapheneOS on their Pixel devices, but plenty of other Android phones support LineageOS/DivestOS/CalyxOS
calendar - still looking for a replacement for my smart watch, but I’ve been using my Nextcloud install; there are also some FOSS calendars that support CalDav as well, so look around
maps - I’ve been using Organic Maps, which has been great; main problem is searching for addresses, but if it’s in there, the directions so far have worked fine; there’s also Apple maps, Bing maps, and probably some others
translate - it’s built in to Firefox, and it seems to work well enough in a pinch
But there’s really not much for YouTube. I guess there’s Odyssee, Rumble, and a few others, but they don’t have anywhere near the content as YouTube, so they’re not really practical alternatives. I actually sub to Nebula which is the closest to a replacement so far, but there’s still a ton of content that doesn’t have a direct replacement there.
Off topic, but how do you like graphene? I am thinking of making the switch on a pixel 7a, but I have a fear it’ll be like having Linux on my phone where things randomly don’t work and then I have the hobby where I make it work
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 21 Nov 19:55
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I really like it, but I also mostly use F-Droid apps. You can install Google Play in the regular app sandbox, which prevents the worst of the issues andn provides most of the benefits.
That said, there are still some caveats:
NFC payments don’t work - I use a Pixel watch instead, which works fine (it’s paired to a separate profile on my phone with Google Play installed)
some banking apps don’t work (some check if your phone OS is stock)
some apps just don’t work without Google Play services running (e.g. the Sensi app for my smart thermostat), and some have issues even with it running
But other than that, it works pretty well! I have three profiles set up:
Owner - default, with no Google Play
Work - handful of work apps using my work Google account
Google - apps that require Google Play, using a fresh Google account
I’m using a Google Pixel 8, and it does what I need it to do.
brucethemoose@lemmy.world
on 21 Nov 15:01
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This is the last antitrust win we’ll get for years, isn’t it?
I know Trump doesn’t like Big Tech, but I doubt his admin will punish them meaningfully, but just rail about censorship.
This isn’t a win I think. They are yet to meet in the court with Google.
The DOJ will file a revised version of its proposals in early March, before the government and Google return to the DC District Court in April for a two-week remedies trial.
kibiz0r@midwest.social
on 21 Nov 15:37
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People wondering what Chrome has to do with a search monopoly:
The obvious benefit is that they can default the user’s search provider to Google.
But the more nefarious benefit is that, by controlling both the client and server, they can unilaterally decide the future of web standards. They don’t have to advocate for proposals, gain consensus, and limit themselves to well-supported standards the way other companies do. They can just do it, gain the first-mover advantage, and force others to follow suit.
If they don’t like HTTP/2, they can invent their own protocol and implement it for their search servers and Chrome. Suddenly, using Chrome with Google Search is way faster than using Chrome with Bing or using Firefox with Google Search. Even if Microsoft and Mozilla don’t like the protocol, they now have to adopt it or fall behind.
This has happened. QUIC was deployed in 2012. Firefox gained support in 2021.
They’re doing the same thing with Privacy Sandbox, and you can also look at browser feature compatibility tables to see how eager Google is to force their own interpretation of every not-yet-finalized web standard as the canonical interpretation.
Basically. I mean look at Edge, it’s running Chromium under the hood, but the UI is developed by Microsoft.
raynethackery@lemmy.world
on 21 Nov 15:46
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Yeah, see all this stuff happening between now and inauguration day. See, we did something. Too little, too late. If there are ever free and fair elections in this country, and the Democrats return to power, they better get their fucking shit together. The dismantling of the Federal government will be almost impossible to reverse.
threaded - newest
ABOUT FUCKING TIME!
If they’re allowed to choose who they sell it to this won’t change anything
I think they should sell it to me.
4 $ Final Offer
Too much for me, I’m out 🏳️
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/c5eaba8f-37aa-4629-8ef4-ea0fb02e924f.jpeg">
Sell it to Mozilla so they can make it uninstall itself and install Firefox instead in the next update
Sounds like they are preparing for this by killing off ChromeOS
androidauthority.com/chrome-os-becoming-android-3…
Another thing to add to the google graveyard.
I’m honestly curious how this would “harm Americans”.
Google pretending they have any other nationality other then “the global internet” is cute in a disgusting way.
That statement is technically true.
The billionaire owners are Americans.
Everyone really does need to have that at the forefront of their mind. When the C-suit, wall street, and politicians talk about “Americans” they aren’t talking about us schlubs.
The corporations are people too!
Alphabet’s Chief Legal Officer sounds like Donald Trump
I fear this is exactly who they’re courting.
How does chrome make money? It uses ads from Google, chrome on it’s own is not a business.
Say you buy chrome, you have to options
Ads built into chrome itself (when you’re in the settings menu, homepage, reading a PDF, playing the dino game)
Force your own default search engine, or get a company like Google or Bing to pay you for the privilege of being a default search engine.
Neither of these options are better than the status quo
The same ruling would ban Google from paying other browsers to make Google the default search engine.
This would kill Firefox and make Chromium the only browser engine that’s left.
They should force it to become a worker cooperative. It’s the only solution that doesn’t allow for corruption
Nationalize?
Yep, nationalize everything that’s essential or at least offer a nationalized alternative and let the private sector try to compete.
I literally salivate at the thought of it happening to the telecom industries.
For a lot of things yes.
However I do not want to use a browser developed by the US gov tyvm
My comment is more in line with the corruption aspect. As much as I think they deserve it, giving it to the employees would be more akin to them winning the lottery. In the space of a year, they will have gone public, shareholders would have stormed in and we would be at square one.
Nationalisation at least has a chance of getting rid of the money corruption aspect. Sadly, the three letter agencies are probably deep in every browser already so I don’t think any solution takes care of that.
I understand your point though. Personally, I will never use chrome no matter what happens, ha.
brOURser comrade.
Is the DOJ the only working system in the US now?
Obviously not. Trump is still free.
FTC works. For now.
Step 1: Buy Chome
Step 2: End development
Step 3: ???
Step 4:
Profit?Non-Profit Firefox?Big doubt anything actually happens.
The Reuters article suggests prohibiting payments to Apple so that Chrome users on their hardware default to Google search. What about default settings to Firefox? Similar agreements finance a large portion of Mozilla’s revenue.
Admittedly, I don’t know enough about monopolies and antitrust laws to know how much this matters. Can someone ELI5 this and give us more info?
Just…please for the love of whatever dirty do Microsoft. Fucking sick of their shit recently with One Drive.
All mega corps but it won't happen
Do you have a few minutes to learn about our lord and savior Linux?
Man the Linux propaganda is STRONG on Lemmy. I’ll say what I’ve said before: I use my computer for gaming, web browsing, and managing a media server for my family that hosts pictures and other things. If those 3 things can be done easily without issue on a Linux distro without having to fuck around with configs every time I want to do something, I’m all in. By what I’ve heard though it’s just not there yet. I am super happy Steam decided to go Linux for their Steamdeck though as I’ve heard thats helped make monumental strides the right direction. Trust me, I want to. Large part of it is I worked tech support for over a decade and having to troubleshoot my own shit is like the furthest thing I want to deal with haha
You owe it to yourself to try it out! I recommend dual booting into Linux Mint Cinnamon for a while and have your windows install to fall back on to. That or one of the gaming-specific distributions, but from what I’ve seen Mint does all with gaming too. It’s a good all-around starting place, and there are a lot of resources because it’s popular and built off of the most popular distro. I installed it on my work machine (software engineering) and I’ve felt no lack of capability or a need to switch to a more “hardcore” distro.
Microsoft is waaay easier to avoid than fucking google. Is one drive that annoying?
>sell Chrome to open search monopoly
>Chrome isn’t a search engine but a web browser
Yeah, Google pays other companies lots of money to have its search engine enabled by default. That’s what the lawsuit argued, so I’m not sure how separating chrome from the company will change that…
It has massive market share and uses Google search by default. If another company owns the browser, they’ll likely change the default search engine, and since almost nobody changes the defaults, it’ll eat away at Google’s marketshare.
For example, Microsoft would be pretty interested in buying it to promote Bing search. Edge is already based on Chromium, so they could reuse their existing teams to offer support for it.
What does Chrome have to do with search? 🤔
Google is the default search engine for chrome, and chrome is the single most popular browser at about 95% market share.
Um, that wouldn’t change if Google “sells Chrome”, though.
Firefox uses Google Search as a default, so does every Samsung phone (and most other Android devices).
Unless the DOJ is telling everyone not to implement a default search engine (and let the user decide upon first opening the browser), then who owns Chrome really doesn’t change much.
This is the only thing that makes sense, but “sell Chrome” is a laughable request.
What search engine does Chrome, by far and away the most used browser be it on phone or PC, use?
What the what?
“sell your browser, that’ll limit your search monopoly”
. . . HAH?
It has 67% market share, and the default search is Google.
So it is on firefox as well . . ? And also with Edge, for those poor bastards.
Why not just force them to pick a different default? Or something meaningful like splitting them out of Alphabet entirely? Or stop sucking? Okay, well that last one may be hard to administrate.
It is on FF and Edge because Google pays them a ton of money. Every person who chooses Chrome instead of FF is more money for Google because they don’t need to pay themselves to make Google the default.
A fair point, though “a ton of money” is essentially 1% of their net profits for the year. Selling Chrome to someone who gets another .5% is not going to do anything at all.
Ehh just fight it for a month pay king trump some money and bam their golden.
This is exactly what will happen. Same thing with Albertsons and Kroger too.
Okay but consider them taking this moment to let Elon buy it and using it to control information on the clients end 💀
That would end the internet/world.
Maybe we’ll actually see people switch to Firefox if that happens.
There’s literally so much else they should do, google docs, sheets, drive, phones, maps, earth, calendar, play store, translate, etc.
Good work, continue please.
What is the issue with docs, sheets, drive, phones, calendar, play store?
There seems to be plenty of options in all of these spaces. Play store isn’t even on a lot of android devices.
Correct. My example for another necessary intervention would be YouTube. That’s a space in which Google does have a monopoly.
Most definitely. They need viable competition.
Exactly. There are workable alternatives to most of the others, but YouTube has a stranglehold on that type of content due to the network effect. Examples of alternatives:
But there’s really not much for YouTube. I guess there’s Odyssee, Rumble, and a few others, but they don’t have anywhere near the content as YouTube, so they’re not really practical alternatives. I actually sub to Nebula which is the closest to a replacement so far, but there’s still a ton of content that doesn’t have a direct replacement there.
Off topic, but how do you like graphene? I am thinking of making the switch on a pixel 7a, but I have a fear it’ll be like having Linux on my phone where things randomly don’t work and then I have the hobby where I make it work
I really like it, but I also mostly use F-Droid apps. You can install Google Play in the regular app sandbox, which prevents the worst of the issues andn provides most of the benefits.
That said, there are still some caveats:
But other than that, it works pretty well! I have three profiles set up:
I’m using a Google Pixel 8, and it does what I need it to do.
This is the last antitrust win we’ll get for years, isn’t it?
I know Trump doesn’t like Big Tech, but I doubt his admin will punish them meaningfully, but just rail about censorship.
This isn’t a win I think. They are yet to meet in the court with Google.
Microshit treatment incoming IMHO
People larp these headlines too much
People wondering what Chrome has to do with a search monopoly:
The obvious benefit is that they can default the user’s search provider to Google.
But the more nefarious benefit is that, by controlling both the client and server, they can unilaterally decide the future of web standards. They don’t have to advocate for proposals, gain consensus, and limit themselves to well-supported standards the way other companies do. They can just do it, gain the first-mover advantage, and force others to follow suit.
If they don’t like HTTP/2, they can invent their own protocol and implement it for their search servers and Chrome. Suddenly, using Chrome with Google Search is way faster than using Chrome with Bing or using Firefox with Google Search. Even if Microsoft and Mozilla don’t like the protocol, they now have to adopt it or fall behind.
This has happened. QUIC was deployed in 2012. Firefox gained support in 2021.
They’re doing the same thing with Privacy Sandbox, and you can also look at browser feature compatibility tables to see how eager Google is to force their own interpretation of every not-yet-finalized web standard as the canonical interpretation.
Edit: Also, JPEG XL vs. WebP.
Hot take: they sell Chrome but keep Chromium.
Seeing how tech illiterate some of these people are, I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s what ends up happening
How would that work exactly? Google would sell Chrome but keep paying teams if developers to work on Chromium?
Basically. I mean look at Edge, it’s running Chromium under the hood, but the UI is developed by Microsoft.
Yeah, see all this stuff happening between now and inauguration day. See, we did something. Too little, too late. If there are ever free and fair elections in this country, and the Democrats return to power, they better get their fucking shit together. The dismantling of the Federal government will be almost impossible to reverse.
Who would buy this and how would they monetize it? In browser ads? A freemium paid model to remove the ads?
I’ll bid $3.50 just to GPL it.
sell it to Microsoft so they can finally have a web browser that people use
Never again
Hey look, some boomers who don’t understand tech are trying to do a thing with a tech company. Sell Chrome? What a stupid idea.