Man I wish European governments would take more control of our digital town squares that are entirely owned and handled by foreign corporations who seek to erode democracy.
NineMileTower@lemmy.world
on 15 Jan 19:43
nextcollapse
What happens when Americans start posting about Hong Kong not being a part of China?
Hong Kong isn’t part of China. Taiwan is an independent country.
Edit: oh, this community is in lemmy.world, not lemmy.ml. Still, for those disgruntled, report me for rule 2 & 6. I want to see how mods respond to this.
merde@sh.itjust.works
on 15 Jan 20:12
nextcollapse
horse_battery_staple@lemmy.world
on 16 Jan 13:00
collapse
That doesn’t make them propaganda. Tibet exists, I’ve been there. I have friends living there. The CIA paid for places to put listening equipment along China’s border. They did it in Cuba too. Is Castro propaganda?
You also deny that the Uyghurs are being disappeared and “reeducated”. The Uyghurs are being treated just like the First Nations people in America were. Their land and customs stand in the way of Chinese “progress”
Are you paid by China? Or are you just a useful idiot?
He’s a useful idiot who hates one thing so much that he will ignore any and all good things bad about that thing, and will ignore any and all bad things about something that isn’t that thing.
horse_battery_staple@lemmy.world
on 16 Jan 20:27
collapse
Yeah, shorthand for this is Tankie
merde@sh.itjust.works
on 16 Jan 00:45
nextcollapse
let’s assume that statement is true, let’s take the words of an anonymous internaut for truth :
CIA paid Taliban too, i remember reading. Does that make Taliban too just propaganda?
U.S. sponsored and sponsors many movements around the globe as long as their goals align. That money alone can’t invalidate the cause.
Like, on the contrary, U.S. sponsorship can’t validate a cause either.
i remember unsubscribing from political communities, why the heck am i responding to this comment at this hour. Completely futile! Will it change your mind? Do i really care what you will think about Tibet tomorrow?
U.S. sponsored and sponsors many movements around the globe as long as their goals align. That money alone can’t invalidate the cause.
USSC declares money is speech. You not only agree, but go further that money is truth. Naziism and Islamist fascism is truth.
Democracy, and political power, is much cheaper in smaller countries made less stable with US extortion and war. Navalny caught on video soliciting MI6 for funding to destabilize Russia. Hong Kong media mogul fomenting protests because of Americas values.
The US empire’s values are extortion, control, puppetry, and war whitewashed/described with a facade of liberal freedom. Every country is to be a pawn for the empire to the detriment of their population. The political establishment’s disdain for Americans provides no valid expectation for the empire to promote humanism elsewhere. Just propaganda.
horse_battery_staple@lemmy.world
on 16 Jan 16:41
collapse
Yes. However we can agree that all colonialism and imperialism is bad regardless of political structure in power.
horse_battery_staple@lemmy.world
on 16 Jan 12:52
collapse
Tibet emerged as one of countless warlord states in the chaos following the fall of the Qing, it never received international recognition and is recognized as part of China and claimed by the ROC (Taiwan). In the period when it was autonomous, it was ruled by a slaveowning theocracy with an average life expectancy in the 30’s. Whipping, mutilation, and amputation were common punishments and poverty and starvation were rampant, with people frequently having to sell their kids for food. The monks and lamas, meanwhile, lived on the backs of the people in extravagant mansions with thousands of servants.
“Free Tibet” is essentially just “The South Will Rise Again” with extra steps.
horse_battery_staple@lemmy.world
on 16 Jan 20:29
nextcollapse
If someone claims something happened on the fediverse without providing a link, they’re lying.
I am requesting that link in lieu of an image macro
For the record, that line is more in reference to people talking about things that allegedly happened on the fediverse, like, “I saw such and such user say X.”
Here is a detailed account of what Tibet was like with sources. If there’s a specific claim that you’d like me to clarify or back up, I’d be happy to.
alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml
on 16 Jan 01:04
nextcollapse
Rednote is mostly chinese users.
Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works
on 16 Jan 01:18
collapse
I’d bet Chinese government WANTS people using these apps. They have established state control for rapid monitoring and data collection and rapid censorship and targeted groups for manipulation and propaganda.
guyoverthere123@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 17 Jan 05:09
collapse
Their account gets banned.
Same as any mention of Tienamen Square and anything else the Chinese Government deems unacceptable.
givesomefucks@lemmy.world
on 15 Jan 19:43
nextcollapse
Meanwhile, American users are flocking to RedNote because authorities have worked themselves into a lather over privacy concerns about TikTok, while U.S. tech giants harvest user data with industrial efficiency. The difference? American data collection is done for profit, and Chinese data collection is done for control. Pick your poison.
Hard to argue Zuck and Elon don’t want control either…
metaStatic@kbin.earth
on 15 Jan 21:00
nextcollapse
the power to destroy a thing is complete control over it
merde@sh.itjust.works
on 16 Jan 00:36
nextcollapse
not necessarily, again
destruction may be the result of failure to control or even resistance to control. Why all these generalizations? There are so many variables in uncountably different situations.
stringere@sh.itjust.works
on 16 Jan 02:55
collapse
some give up on profit to have control (you may say that control is their profit, but i’m taking profit literally.
ElderReflections@fedia.io
on 15 Jan 20:30
collapse
"In this country, you gotta make the money first. Then when you get the money, you get the power. Then when you get the power, then you get the women."
Then, when all your desires are fullfilled, you realize that your life is empty because nobody around you actually gives a shit about you and are only using you as a connection to money and/or power. You end up a soulless husk of a human being whose only goal in life is line go up.
taladar@sh.itjust.works
on 16 Jan 07:12
nextcollapse
Honestly, if they all stopped trying to get more money or power at the point where they have all the women and luxuries they could ever want it would be a vast improvement over the status quo at this point.
This is crystal clear now, but it was less clear before.
I started saying that social media finally figured out how to monetize the platform and it’s customers aren’t people, aren’t even companies, the customers are now billionaires and foreign governments.
NauticalNoodle@lemmy.ml
on 16 Jan 02:47
nextcollapse
profit is simply a means of seeking control…
coherent_domain@infosec.pub
on 16 Jan 04:35
nextcollapse
How do people not think that China is also a hyper capitalistic society, especially in the tech sector. Your data is 100% being sold if you are on any Chinese platform, just like in the U.S.
If anything, Chinese big tech tends to be less privacy-respecting than the west, because they don’t need to operate in area with basic privacy laws, like Europe and California; and there are much less alternative products to choose from because of the GFW.
They all operate under the same laws in any given area. And neither respect your privacy if not forced by laws that are actually enforced.
coherent_domain@infosec.pub
on 16 Jan 12:20
collapse
You are right, but I imagine it is harder to sue a company over GDPR if they don’t even exists in Europe…
ShepherdPie@midwest.social
on 16 Jan 18:44
nextcollapse
The difference? American data collection is done for profit, and Chinese data collection is done for control. Pick your poison.
No the difference is that these US companies give the US government a backdoor into everyone’s data (while also harvesting it all for profit) while the Chinese apps don’t in favor of giving the Chinese government a backdoor into everyone’s data. They don’t give a shit about propaganda and brainwashing occurring which is why they’ll allow the app to stay up in the US just so long as it’s an American company controlling it here because then they can install their backdoor for the US government.
And all of this social media shit is a distraction from real problems in the world. This is what our government does to run out the clock and prevent meaningful change.
Unfortunately nothing will meaningfully improve until the rich fear for their lives
Isn’t it the exact opposite? The only thing China can do with my data is try to sell me stuff. Meanwhile, the authorities in my own country have the power to kick in my door and drag me away to some blacksite.
If I were Chinese, I would rather the US government have my data than the Chinese government, but since I’m American, I would rather the Chinese government have it than the US. Pretty much everyone anywhere in the world ought to regard their own government as their highest security risk.
Reality: every U.S. leftist content creator has been physically visited by FBI agents and have a file maintained on them, despite never once making a threat or call to violence.
Meanwhile, China has lifted hundreds of millions out of crushing poverty and built the world’s best high speed rail system, only in the last 10-15 years.
And they make fun of Xi and criticize their government just fine.
Every accusation liberals make is a confession. Really weird how they keep acting indistinguishable from literal Nazis while accusing the left of doing the same thing.
Oh look, there it is again. Libs just can’t stop taking Ls.
RidderSport@feddit.org
on 17 Jan 10:07
nextcollapse
And yet China is basically the same as the USA will be in a few years. A hypercapitalist country (under the disguise of communism) that caters to the already rich, with incredibly authotarian methods that funds its wealth largely by overexpenditure of the state.
Sure many Chinese have profited, but many have been deliberately thrown under the bus, even more so now with record-high youth unemployment and homelessness. Sure they’ve build a lot of good infrastructure, though it’s debatable whether the quality is any good, but that was done to fund companies and fill the pockets of corrupt politicians and their buddies.
China should not be an example of a good social state to anyone.
The only thing China can do with my data is try to sell me stuff.
Anyone that collects your data could use it for many legal and illegal activities. If you see it only as marketing, you are not imagining the possibilities of stolen identity, fraud, blackmail, etc.
Yeah, this may have been true before the upcoming administration, but Trump’s government (which will be a full-blown oligarchy) absolutely wants Chinese/Russian style control over its citizens.
gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works
on 15 Jan 20:26
nextcollapse
I mean, trying to regulate technology at the speed of American politics was very obviously a nonsensical and futile proposition from the get-go.
DigitalNirvana@lemm.ee
on 15 Jan 20:51
nextcollapse
I’m pretty sure Xiao Hong Shu translates to Little Red Note in English. I’m not using it, just clarifying the name to make it seem small / cute. Aduki beans are Xiao hong dou.
LOL my god, it’s really that in-your-face blatant?!
Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works
on 16 Jan 03:34
collapse
I think most people know it too. They protest because they have already got hacked a dozen or two times, advertisers steal all data not locked down, and the government scoops up all of that. So they question “what can China do to me that hasn’t already been done. My data and privacy has already been made worthless”
Yeah I hear a lot of people asking why it matters if someone has their data cause it must be worthless by now.
I often think the governments wouldn’t be fighting this hard to track people if it was.
It’s actually just a funny coincidence, though it’s funny when people freak out about it. Mao’s “little red book” is written 红宝书, while the app is 小红书, so the connection is only really there in English. Red is a reference to two institutions the creator was involved with, Stanford Business School and Bain & Company, both of which use red as their main color (I imagine the general association of red with good luck may have factored in as well). As for note vs book, I mean, a notebook is a “little book,” and note is short for notebook (e.g. Death Note).
If you actually look at the app and what gets posted there and what doesn’t, it’s pretty silly to assume it’s a reference. It was originally called “Hong Kong Shopping Guide” and was targeted towards tourists, the userbase skews female and relatively well off. It’s like Instagram, there’s lots of cat posts and the the like, lots of fashion, I’ve come across some pretty impressive furries, and it’s even got a decent sized queer community, particularly popular with lesbians.
Even if it were an intentional reference to Mao’s book, like, so what? The users are the ones putting out content and they’re just regular people. Not everything is some sinister plot.
What has social media like tiktok or whatever done to improve peoples lives?
Man, just use Lemmy and stay off those toxic apps. I’ve had multiple people send me tiktok links and guess what, that shit stays unclicked. I want no part of it.
A lot of people have made it their main income. Whether you or I think that’s good or not is irrelevent, but it does mean hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of Americans will lose their jobs as a result of this.
I have just as much sympathy for those poor individuals as I would for health insurance employees that would lose their job as a result of U.S. universal healthcare. Well, a little bit more, as they at least made people smile on occasion.
threaded - newest
And that, as the saying goes, is not a bug. It’s a feature.
Man I wish European governments would take more control of our digital town squares that are entirely owned and handled by foreign corporations who seek to erode democracy.
What happens when Americans start posting about Hong Kong not being a part of China?
The same thing that’s happening right now with Americans claiming Taiwan is not part of China.
To shreds you say?
The same as when Americans posted about the gaza genocide on tik tok, the government cracks down.
The same as already happens on lemmy.ml 😂
Really? Let me try.
Hong Kong isn’t part of China. Taiwan is an independent country.
Edit: oh, this community is in lemmy.world, not lemmy.ml. Still, for those disgruntled, report me for rule 2 & 6. I want to see how mods respond to this.
Tibet is completely forgotten 😢
Tibet was CIA propaganda. The Dalai Lama org was directly paid by the CIA
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/f8aaf0e2-a22a-4d4d-963b-21ab97e5c51c.png">
lemmy.world/modlog/873048?page=1&modId=107790
Amazing how little people know of the things they talk about
That doesn’t make them propaganda. Tibet exists, I’ve been there. I have friends living there. The CIA paid for places to put listening equipment along China’s border. They did it in Cuba too. Is Castro propaganda?
You also deny that the Uyghurs are being disappeared and “reeducated”. The Uyghurs are being treated just like the First Nations people in America were. Their land and customs stand in the way of Chinese “progress”
Are you paid by China? Or are you just a useful idiot?
The reeducated thing is sinophobic propaganda bullshit.
I agree, that’s why it’s in quotes. In reality they’re being put in camps on the border and hidden away from the media.
en.m.wikipedia.org/…/Xinjiang_internment_camps
Pinyin link below
www.xinhuanet.com/politics/…/c_1124247196.htm
He’s a useful idiot who hates one thing so much that he will ignore any and all good things bad about that thing, and will ignore any and all bad things about something that isn’t that thing.
Yeah, shorthand for this is Tankie
let’s assume that statement is true, let’s take the words of an anonymous internaut for truth :
CIA paid Taliban too, i remember reading. Does that make Taliban too just propaganda?
U.S. sponsored and sponsors many movements around the globe as long as their goals align. That money alone can’t invalidate the cause.
Like, on the contrary, U.S. sponsorship can’t validate a cause either.
i remember unsubscribing from political communities, why the heck am i responding to this comment at this hour. Completely futile! Will it change your mind? Do i really care what you will think about Tibet tomorrow?
Tibet was today’s Uyghurs. its US Sinophobic propaganda.
USSC declares money is speech. You not only agree, but go further that money is truth. Naziism and Islamist fascism is truth. Democracy, and political power, is much cheaper in smaller countries made less stable with US extortion and war. Navalny caught on video soliciting MI6 for funding to destabilize Russia. Hong Kong media mogul fomenting protests because of Americas values.
The US empire’s values are extortion, control, puppetry, and war whitewashed/described with a facade of liberal freedom. Every country is to be a pawn for the empire to the detriment of their population. The political establishment’s disdain for Americans provides no valid expectation for the empire to promote humanism elsewhere. Just propaganda.
Yes. However we can agree that all colonialism and imperialism is bad regardless of political structure in power.
lemmy.world/modlog/873048?page=1&modId=107790
Whoah. You’re ruining /c/latestagecapitalism…why aren’t you letting other leftists in the space?
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/6437dd2a-bbe5-49e0-8448-dce1a2e2733b.webp">
Tibet emerged as one of countless warlord states in the chaos following the fall of the Qing, it never received international recognition and is recognized as part of China and claimed by the ROC (Taiwan). In the period when it was autonomous, it was ruled by a slaveowning theocracy with an average life expectancy in the 30’s. Whipping, mutilation, and amputation were common punishments and poverty and starvation were rampant, with people frequently having to sell their kids for food. The monks and lamas, meanwhile, lived on the backs of the people in extravagant mansions with thousands of servants.
“Free Tibet” is essentially just “The South Will Rise Again” with extra steps.
I am requesting that link in lieu of an image macro
For the record, that line is more in reference to people talking about things that allegedly happened on the fediverse, like, “I saw such and such user say X.”
Here is a detailed account of what Tibet was like with sources. If there’s a specific claim that you’d like me to clarify or back up, I’d be happy to.
The slavery enjoyers are not happy with me, it seems. If only downvotes had the power to change historical facts.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/df56df5f-f49a-4de4-880f-937d99c325d6.jpeg">
极其滑稽的
You mean mainland Taiwan? Never heard of this China.
You know the official name of Taiwan’s government is The Republic of China right?
Yeah, that’s where the previous Chinese leaders fled when the communists took over…
That’s the joke yes. Among others here. 😆
Judea and Samaria agree.
I did, it’s a superpower
They’ll probably get mocked and their posts removed.
TAIWAN #1!
China doesn’t let it’s own people use these apps…
Rednote is mostly chinese users.
I’d bet Chinese government WANTS people using these apps. They have established state control for rapid monitoring and data collection and rapid censorship and targeted groups for manipulation and propaganda.
Their account gets banned.
Same as any mention of Tienamen Square and anything else the Chinese Government deems unacceptable.
Hard to argue Zuck and Elon don’t want control either…
I’d argue profit and control are two sides of the same coin
not necessarily
Please elaborate
the power to destroy a thing is complete control over it
not necessarily, again
destruction may be the result of failure to control or even resistance to control. Why all these generalizations? There are so many variables in uncountably different situations.
Lisan al gaib? Muad’dib!
some profit from things getting out of control
some give up on profit to have control (you may say that control is their profit, but i’m taking profit literally.
"In this country, you gotta make the money first. Then when you get the money, you get the power. Then when you get the power, then you get the women."
Then, when all your desires are fullfilled, you realize that your life is empty because nobody around you actually gives a shit about you and are only using you as a connection to money and/or power. You end up a soulless husk of a human being whose only goal in life is line go up.
Honestly, if they all stopped trying to get more money or power at the point where they have all the women and luxuries they could ever want it would be a vast improvement over the status quo at this point.
Then when you get the power you tell the plebs to make more money. “This is America. If you don’t make more money (for me), you’re a douchebag”.
The article talks about how America is mirroring China’s tactic. So yeah, now they want control too.
This is crystal clear now, but it was less clear before.
I started saying that social media finally figured out how to monetize the platform and it’s customers aren’t people, aren’t even companies, the customers are now billionaires and foreign governments.
The influence of foreign governments is negligible next to what the US exerts on us. Americans have the jester’s privilege, we can say whatever we want, as long as they know it doesn’t matter. As soon as the government feels like it matters, they have a million tools to silence you.
profit is simply a means of seeking control…
How do people not think that China is also a hyper capitalistic society, especially in the tech sector. Your data is 100% being sold if you are on any Chinese platform, just like in the U.S.
If anything, Chinese big tech tends to be less privacy-respecting than the west, because they don’t need to operate in area with basic privacy laws, like Europe and California; and there are much less alternative products to choose from because of the GFW.
The founder and CEO of Baidu openly stated that “Chinese people are less sensitive about privacy, which gives us more data to work with” See m.163.com/dy/article/DDRTB01Q0511FQO9.html?spss=a…
They all operate under the same laws in any given area. And neither respect your privacy if not forced by laws that are actually enforced.
You are right, but I imagine it is harder to sue a company over GDPR if they don’t even exists in Europe…
No the difference is that these US companies give the US government a backdoor into everyone’s data (while also harvesting it all for profit) while the Chinese apps don’t in favor of giving the Chinese government a backdoor into everyone’s data. They don’t give a shit about propaganda and brainwashing occurring which is why they’ll allow the app to stay up in the US just so long as it’s an American company controlling it here because then they can install their backdoor for the US government.
And all of this social media shit is a distraction from real problems in the world. This is what our government does to run out the clock and prevent meaningful change.
Unfortunately nothing will meaningfully improve until the rich fear for their lives
Isn’t it the exact opposite? The only thing China can do with my data is try to sell me stuff. Meanwhile, the authorities in my own country have the power to kick in my door and drag me away to some blacksite.
If I were Chinese, I would rather the US government have my data than the Chinese government, but since I’m American, I would rather the Chinese government have it than the US. Pretty much everyone anywhere in the world ought to regard their own government as their highest security risk.
Liberals: MUH SENSORSHIP NOOOOO
Reality: every U.S. leftist content creator has been physically visited by FBI agents and have a file maintained on them, despite never once making a threat or call to violence.
Meanwhile, China has lifted hundreds of millions out of crushing poverty and built the world’s best high speed rail system, only in the last 10-15 years.
And they make fun of Xi and criticize their government just fine.
Every accusation liberals make is a confession. Really weird how they keep acting indistinguishable from literal Nazis while accusing the left of doing the same thing.
Oh look, there it is again. Libs just can’t stop taking Ls.
And yet China is basically the same as the USA will be in a few years. A hypercapitalist country (under the disguise of communism) that caters to the already rich, with incredibly authotarian methods that funds its wealth largely by overexpenditure of the state.
Sure many Chinese have profited, but many have been deliberately thrown under the bus, even more so now with record-high youth unemployment and homelessness. Sure they’ve build a lot of good infrastructure, though it’s debatable whether the quality is any good, but that was done to fund companies and fill the pockets of corrupt politicians and their buddies.
China should not be an example of a good social state to anyone.
Did you forget about Hong Kong already? What happened to 50 years of " One Country - Two Systems"
troll
Anyone that collects your data could use it for many legal and illegal activities. If you see it only as marketing, you are not imagining the possibilities of stolen identity, fraud, blackmail, etc.
Yeah, this may have been true before the upcoming administration, but Trump’s government (which will be a full-blown oligarchy) absolutely wants Chinese/Russian style control over its citizens.
I mean, trying to regulate technology at the speed of American politics was very obviously a nonsensical and futile proposition from the get-go.
I’m pretty sure Xiao Hong Shu translates to Little Red Note in English. I’m not using it, just clarifying the name to make it seem small / cute. Aduki beans are Xiao hong dou.
.
First of all, the name doesn’t translate to “Little Red Note”, but “Little Red Book.”
Second, Little Red Book is literally the nickname of a Chinese political publication called Quotations from Chairman Mao Tse-tung.
Sorry, that name isn’t cute at all.
LOL my god, it’s really that in-your-face blatant?!
I think most people know it too. They protest because they have already got hacked a dozen or two times, advertisers steal all data not locked down, and the government scoops up all of that. So they question “what can China do to me that hasn’t already been done. My data and privacy has already been made worthless”
Yeah I hear a lot of people asking why it matters if someone has their data cause it must be worthless by now.
I often think the governments wouldn’t be fighting this hard to track people if it was.
It’s actually just a funny coincidence, though it’s funny when people freak out about it. Mao’s “little red book” is written 红宝书, while the app is 小红书, so the connection is only really there in English. Red is a reference to two institutions the creator was involved with, Stanford Business School and Bain & Company, both of which use red as their main color (I imagine the general association of red with good luck may have factored in as well). As for note vs book, I mean, a notebook is a “little book,” and note is short for notebook (e.g. Death Note).
If you actually look at the app and what gets posted there and what doesn’t, it’s pretty silly to assume it’s a reference. It was originally called “Hong Kong Shopping Guide” and was targeted towards tourists, the userbase skews female and relatively well off. It’s like Instagram, there’s lots of cat posts and the the like, lots of fashion, I’ve come across some pretty impressive furries, and it’s even got a decent sized queer community, particularly popular with lesbians.
Even if it were an intentional reference to Mao’s book, like, so what? The users are the ones putting out content and they’re just regular people. Not everything is some sinister plot.
Anyone that knows anything about average TT users knew that if the ban was going to happen, that this was going to happen in some way, shape, or form.
Lol, 700k misinformed idiot Americans you mean.
“This massive corporation sucks too!” Have you tried not going with a massive corporation?
**tearing everything apart
What has social media like tiktok or whatever done to improve peoples lives?
Man, just use Lemmy and stay off those toxic apps. I’ve had multiple people send me tiktok links and guess what, that shit stays unclicked. I want no part of it.
A lot of people have made it their main income. Whether you or I think that’s good or not is irrelevent, but it does mean hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of Americans will lose their jobs as a result of this.
I have just as much sympathy for those poor individuals as I would for health insurance employees that would lose their job as a result of U.S. universal healthcare. Well, a little bit more, as they at least made people smile on occasion.