Microsoft stealthily installs Windows 10 update to nag you to upgrade to Windows 11 – and not for the first time
(www.techradar.com)
from ForgottenFlux@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world on 11 Nov 19:31
https://lemmy.world/post/21908726
from ForgottenFlux@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world on 11 Nov 19:31
https://lemmy.world/post/21908726
- A new patch is being quietly pushed to Windows 10 (and 11) PCs
- It’ll force upgrades in certain circumstances to keep the PC in support
- This update will mean more nag prompts coming to your PC
threaded - newest
Anyone know where I can buy a gaming PC with linux preinstalled instead of windows?
Just build one, cheaper to boot.
Ew and buy components? No thank you, just mine, smelt, and build them, cheaper to boot.
Well…you’re not wrong.
It’s the specialized tools you’ll also need to do all of that that’ll get you, though.
Easy peasy just 3D print the tools. CPU and GPU fabrication in your garage. 😁
TSMC hates this one easy trick!
I have a system76 machine. It’s been really good with steam. Or a steam deck, it’s just a PC.
Their laptops are not worth it if I’m honest. They have issues with the hinges. I had two of them give out. They use a very cheap plastic. But you are guaranteed no driver issues if you use PoPOS on their own machines.
I’m sure if you searched for stuff nearby you could find a small local shop who could help you out.
System76 desktop is not gaming per se but it will game
They develop PopOS which is one of the better "normie" linux distros and supports nvidia gpus if you cuda is ur thing.
Yeah, you buy a gaming PC with Windows and you insert a USB stick and install Linux. Otherwise, you’ll be paying a high premium for a company that does basically the same thing. Things to look out for are try to find a PC with Intel networking and bluetooth adapters. Realtek is relatively well supported, but has been known to have issues.
If gaming is top priority. Go all amd, disregard Nvidia. AMD has extraordinary linux support and if it runs on the steam deck it will run on any all AMD machine.
True, but Nvidia has come a long way and I believe announced support in the recent months, but don’t quote me on the last part. I have a desk and laptop both with Nvidia GPUs, and I don’t have any issues. Wayland did not work until 4-6 months ago, but everything is pretty stable now.
My biggest fear is that so far Nvidia has a track record of introducing regressions and new bugs with each new driver version. Just a week ago all my flatpaks weren’t working on Wayland, again. It happens almost with every single update. Some games that are native or platinum randomly stop working and it takes several updates before they start working again. While on AMD everything just works all the time and regressions are solved in a day not weeks. It’s just annoying.
That’s fair. My next build will be AMD. I only switched to Linux the past December, and I already had my gear, so it is what it is for now. Further, my case is too small for new GPUs, so I’m riding my 2080ti to the end.
if your work involving CUDA then nvidia is the only option.
Pretty much all modern Linux installers offer to wipe the existing drive and overwrite. Just prepare a USB drive and boot from it, then follow the steps in the wizard.
Create bootable media - Linux Mint
Always remember to disable secureboot and remove bitlocker before installing linux on a oem windows machine. They make it hell to remove that malware from newer machines.
Bitlocker doesn’t mean anything when you delete its partition.
I would recommend keeping secure boot enabled if your OS supports it, and manually enrolling the key if it doesn’t. Boot chain attacks are a real concern.
Some linux installers will refuse to erase the bitlocker partition automatically. Then you have to manually erase it before running the installer.
I get that, and this is likely what I will do for my existing PCs. The reason I ask is three fold: 1) To save time. I don’t have a ton of spare time, so I would rather spend it gaming than messing around with wiping drives and installing stuff. 2) To encourage my friends to switch over, many of whom are less likely to spend time and effort than I am. 3) This is less important, but wouldn’t I be paying for a windows license I won’t even use? Not a fan of wasting the money, not a fan of paying Microsoft for a service I’m actively fighting to get away from.
Nonetheless, thanks, I will try to find some time to fiddle with installing on an older machine I have and see how that goes.
At least when it came to a laptop, I bought mine without a preinstalled OS - that is far more common than preinstalled Linux.
Maybe one of these?
system76.com/desktops/
www.dell.com/en-us/search/linux
www.tuxedocomputers.com
Writing this on a Tuxedo Pulse 14 gen 3 - great laptop, flawless Linux support and a coding workstation. Perfect for a bit of eg. Disco Elysium or Crusader Kings 3 on the go, but it’s no gaming machine; it has a lot of pixels for a Radeon 780M to push. They do have a list of gaming laptops, though, if you wanted a speciality machine?
And for those on the other side of the Atlantic, there are several computer shops that will just put a computed together for you without an OS.
Here’s a random example “configure your own computer” from a computer shop in France. In this one the OS (Système d’exploitation) is not included and you have to pay extra for it.
In my experience with custom assemblies like this the OS is never included.
When I live in the UK at some point I’ve even used of these kind of stores there to get a custom notebook.
It’s basically an “assemble your own computer” for people who don’t know how to do it and aren’t confident enough to try (understandable given that the parts value of a whole desktop PC adds up to at least €1000 so there generally is some fear of fucking it up if you’ve never done it before).
Build one!
I built one — took about 4 hours once all the parts arrived. My first build. Installed Linux Mint from a flash drive and it worked perfectly. Ended up switching to Zorin OS later — also works fine.
I have been able to play every game I wanted, except one requiring a VR headset.
Were you able to play other games requiring a VR headet?
Didn’t really try. Couldn’t get SteamVR working without lots of hacking. I ended up buying a smaller second hard drive and installing windows just for that use. Once I was done with that game, I haven’t booted into Windows since, as there is no reason to.
As others have mentioned, it’s incredibly easy to install yourself. You just need a flash drive and another device with internet access.
If you’re gaming, I’m using Garuda Dragonized, which is set up for gaming. I’ve liked it and seen many others like it too. Regardless, KDE is probably the DE you want if you’re coming from Windows, but there are plenty of others you may prefer.
You probably can’t get it pre-installed, which I think is probably monopolistic if the only OS choice presented to customers is Windows. That’s how it’s spread so far, not because it’s easier. The issue with pre-installing is they’d either have to let you choose from a ton of options or just limit your choices. It’s easier to let the customer handle it.
System76, tuxedo computers or for handheld a steam deck
System76, Dell, HP.
That said, I feel it’s very worth taking an evening to backup and install yourself
Steam deck maybe
Microsoft: Our computer.
Capitalize the computer, socialize your hardware.
Normies dont see an issuesz the merchant is much obliged
Microsoft: your computer, my choice
The nagging to pay for the OneDrive subscription is something I would only see on trashy websites full of ads. I guess that’s what Windows has become.
A trashy website full of ads, that’s the most accurate description of Windows indeed. Nice.
I figured to turn on one drive for my business user account as I was using two computers.
Then I decided, that I didn’t want it to sync the documents folder since I don’t really use it.
The settings told me that it can’t stop syncing the desktop, pictures, or documents folders because they had critical files or something like that.
I just signed out of OneDrive and the problem was solved.
If it was so critical why does everything work after signing out?
I fucking hate using windows.
Google is the same. Every time I open the stock gallery app instead of the FOSS one it nags me to enable backups for my photos. And I know if I do I will be forced to pay their subscription.
Well you won’t be forced, but they will take your gmail hostage since all Gapps share the same 15gb now.
Stuff like this is why I disabled the TPM on my computer. No TPM means that you’re “not eligible” for 11, meaning I don’t get nagged by the random full screen pop-ups.
I updated my bios at some point and it turned on the TPM again, be careful! When I got an update window and quite the shock, I added a group policy to block the update as a backup.
Disabling secure key storage is a weird hill to die on but ok
10 is the last version of Windows I’ll be using, and I don’t want to have more full screen ads for 11 pop up on top of whatever program I’m trying to use. The previous time it happened is what prompted me to do it in the first place, and I’m definitely not gonna let them force update my Windows version like they’ve done in the past.
Glad I switched to fedora
Finally, the year of the Linux desktop
Once Cosmic DE release, trust me bro
I’ve been hearing that since 2007
That's the joke.
But damned if MS aren't trying to make it a reality at every turn.
Took me a second to realize she wasn’t incarcerated.
I am very glad I moved to Linux full time
Despite what everyone told me on message boards about lack of support for Adobe products and CAD software… somehow I’ve been really successful on linux-only for many many years now.
It’s really nice. Remember when your computer was actually yours? You choose what apps to install, what configuration you want, and who you share your data with? Those dreams are alive with Linux: Not just for nerds anymore.
Do you know something I don’t? I can get away with running Affinity software through wine instead of Adobe, but the only good CAD option is running OnShape in your browser, but then you have to deal with the terrible licensing model of OnShape
What did you end up using for CAD? qCAD?
I’ve been wanting to learn but all of my peers in school learned on AutoCAD.
I actually had a nightmare last night that my computer updated itself to some horrid version of windows and I spent it all frantically looking for my windows 7 ISO and keygen among old backups to blow it away and start again.
Relevant conversation from 2016
M$oft: “Your hardware, my computer”
its bad enough i have to constantly kill the oobe crap every few minutes. glad i dont have that to pile on
Is there anyway to permanently stop windows from updating? I tried few methods off YT but updates do not stop.
(No, don’t recommend me Linux. I have tried it(Mint and Manjaro) and it is way out of my skillset)
Turn off TPM support in bios to prevent the windows 11 install popups. Win 11 requires TPM.
until they need that last few percent to make line go up
Yes, but I wouldn’t recommend it. Every day, attackers develop new methods to compromise your system. Those updates fix the vulnerabilities. In this increasingly connected age, those fixes are critical.
Install a firewall like portmaster and block processes that update there is about half dozen of them.
As others have said prolly not be route security wise, unless you manually permit security updates.
I’m glad to see someone not downvoted for refusing to use Linux on Lemmy. The environment here is getting better for even non-linux users.
The US (which is usally a majority as it was for Reddit) just hasnt woken up yet /s
Disable the Windows Update service?
you could always just find the folder windows update lives in and change the permissions so the system can’t access it.
Just a heads up, it’s not out of your skill set if you can operate Windows. If anything, it’s usually easier if you don’t want to do anything particularly technical. It requires relearning things (which you had to do for Windows too, and will again in the future), but if you don’t understand something you search online or ask for help, like you’re doing here. It turns out, you can’t do everything you want with Windows, but you’ve grown accustomed to it. That’s the difference. You have to grow to get used to anything new, even if it’s “better” or “easier.”
Turning off updates likely requires editing registries, which is far more technical than anything you’ll need to do on Linux.
Last time I tried as trivial as changing a theme on linux, it broke my taskbar(idk what you call it in linux) and wouldn’t respond at all. I looked for solutions online and couldn’t find the solution as the forum threads keep closing before they arrive on a fix.
So I tried to fix it myself and changed to another theme. This theme doesn’t have the same issue but somehow it breaks the only game I play which used to run just fine before.
And that’s the last nail in the coffin for linux for me.
I don’t know what went wrong for you, but personally when I last used Windows my taskbar (still called that on Linux BTW), crashed probably at least once a month, and I’d have to restart my computer to do anything because so much was connected together for no reason.
No operating system is perfect. I will always argue that Windows isn’t easier though, you’re just used to dealing with it’s horrible issues. If you could learn to deal with Windows you can learn to deal with Linux. It’s annoying having to learn something new, but I promise you it’s worth it once you get settled. You can’t go into it expecting it to be Windows, because it isn’t, but if you go in with an open mind and a willingness to learn, it’ll treat you better than Windows does.
The thing with windows is that you have gui for everything and can find video solutions on YT easily which often work.
With Linux, you can’t get those as the user base is split in many different distros, DEs etc and much of the stuff you do is in terminal. Most of the time whenever I faced an issue, I would try to fix it with a solution I find which it would require another application and running that application causes another issue. I had this many times and only rarely fixed the issues I faced.
I had issues with starting with display colour calibration, speaker sound and any application that isn’t Linux native even if I got it from the Package Manager/Appcenter.
There is not a GUI for everything on Windows. There is for a lot of it though, for better or worse. There usually a GUI on most Linux DEs as well, but the answer you’ll see online often involves the console because it’s easily shared and you can just copy/paste it and it’s universal usually. The GUI option requires long tutorials with images telling you where to click. It’s not an improvement. You’re just following a guide not understanding it either way, but the console option is much faster. A GUI is good for applications you understand, but just solving a problem you don’t understand a GUI is cumbersome.
And yeah, having people split has its issues, but that’s what happens when people get a choice. There’s a similar problem between Windows versions too, but Windows 10 has been dominant for a while now so all answers are for that.
You will run into issues, but you have to learn where to look for answers. You’ve had this with Windows too (like the OP here). You just view the issues you’ve had with Windows differently. You’ve learned to deal with it gradually over time, where switching to Linux you’ll have it largely all at once at first as you set things up for the first time and get used to the change. It’s a big change, but you can handle it. You’ve dealt with worse already.
Also, don’t be afraid of the console. It isn’t particularly scary, except you just haven’t used something like it before I guess. It just requires using a keyboard. You use “man [package name]” for the manual. There’s also a fantastic package called TLDR that is similar to man but much shorter and only contains the things you’ll frequently be looking for. I highly recommend it if you try Linux again. It may help.
Disconnect the PC from the internet.
It’s also the only way to safely run a computer without updates.
github.com/tsgrgo/windows-update-disabler
Everything else people commonly suggest online does not work.
Woah, thanks for dropping the link. I did disable w10 update by modifying registry for each services which time consuming.
Ok, ok… Get a mac 🤣
Brb ordering a big mac
Get a royal with cheese instead.
I’m not here to change your mind, but man… Mint and Manjaro are not great introductions to Linux IMO.
Mint was everywhere when I searched beginner linux distros. I tried Manjaro because my friend had it running and likes it a lot and we thought we can recreate issues and find solutions together if we are on same distro.
Yeah, I really don’t get why so many people call Mint good for beginners. There are so many reasons it’s not, yet it has this incredibly vocal crowd who insist it’s so fantastic.
Just out of curiosity would you list a few please? I run Mint (I’m not a beginner but not really an expert either) and have recommended it to people wanting to switch to Linux. If it’s not good for beginners I probably shouldn’t suggest it anymore.
A few off the top of my head:
It’s not a bad shout for beginners by any stretch, but it has a massively overdone reputation for beginner-friendliness that is not really deserved
Cinnamon, for one. Yes, it looks kind of like Windows. But the similarity is surface deep, and it’s also pretty janky- by far the biggest resource hog of all the main DEs, lots of weird snagging bugs and stability issues. I’ve always found it very unsatisfying.
I personally use MATE quite a lot and I enjoy it, but I wouldn’t really be recommending that to Windows users either; it’s pretty old school at this point.
Keep recommending Mint to people by all means, though. If you like it and it’s what you use, that’s still a great recommendation. There is fundamentally no reason why beginners shouldn’t use it as their first distro.
+1 for manjaro
Don’t use manjaro because.
I would have mentioned their terrible dev practices like letting their site cert expire… Five times…
Ohh yeah, I have never worked with vps only static I can confirm it’s not hard securing your site.
Absolutely, yes, I’ve had it disabled since the first W10 feature update. It gets harder with every new release, but it is doable.
You need to manually disable these services with Regedit
-Update Orchestrator (UsoSvc)
-Windows Update Medic Service (WaaSMedicSvc)
-Windows Update (wuauserv)
-Microsoft Edge Update Service (edgeupdate + edgeupdatem)
-Microsoft Edge Elevation Service (MicrosoftEdgeElevationService)
Then you need to go into Task Scheduler and disable all the tasks under the services listed above. I’d also suggest not using Edge, as it will now aggressively repair Windows Update, even with all this stuff disabled.
Thanks man, will try these out.
How is it gonna nag me to upgrade to Windows 11 when I don’t have a TPM?
I’d love to upgrade, the system is completely capable of running it, but because it doesn’t have a useless bit of hardware I can’t. Fuck em.
Mine said I couldn’t upgrade because of the no TPM thing. Turns out it’s just off by default on a lot of mobos.
Secondly, there’s a program called Rufus that can create a bootable flash drive with Windows 11 but removes stuff like the TPM requirements, the need for Microsoft account sign in, all the bad stuff etc
I’d been avoiding it for a year until I learned about Rufus but now that I’ve installed it, you know what? Without all the bloat, it’s a fucking smooth OS. Really excellent multitasking windows and fast too
Lemmy shits on it because “muh Linux” but if you install it right, it’s fucking excellent for the vast, vast majority of people
Basically eliminates the vast majority of people who don’t have the technical knowledge to deal with Rufus
True, it’s as difficult as plugging in a flash drive and clicking three things
Your average yank can’t attempt to tie their shoes without accidentally committing genocide lol stay away from installing operating systems
That’s a gross over-simplification
They have to
One of the reasons Linux is not widespread is because following these “simple” instructions is too much for an average user. So I doubt a Windows user will be bothered to modify their OS. I have installed different variants of Linux 100s of time and even I need to check online if their are any hidden gotchas.
Exactly. You’d get your family “computer person” to do it.
If they care about the OS you want to use, they’ll upgrade to W11 this way.
If they’re obnoxious, self congratulatory Linux users, they’ll try to force you onto an OS you don’t understand
Which is better for the average person?
My only gripe with Windows 11 is how it constantly puts in crap I don’t like without my permission and I’ll have to spend time to remove it.
Other than that and the incoherent UI philosophy, the OS is pretty smooth.
We shit on it because you need a crack to make it work properly in the first place.
I don’t use linux for my desktop either though because my computer is a tool, not a hobby.
Don’t you want the best tool for the job?
Yup, that’s why I got a Mac. It works perfectly out of the box, no rugged edges apps, no drivers/hw concerns, excellent battery time. Best UNIX laptop for the time being.
I give you as main flaws the cost and the irreparability of the hardware and maybe missing out on a few games but that is probably a tie with Linux, since it runs the same emulators/transcoder if needed.
As some one who runs both: no, not even close. Mac has more direct ports than Linux true, but proton vastly outweighs that. I have dozens of games that show up on steam on my mac as unplayable where as I dont have any that wont run under proton.
Five years ago you’d probably have been right, but Linux is far superior to OSX for gaming now.
(E: assuming you’re talking about an apple silicon macbook, IDK the status of proton on x86 macs maybe it works there?)
I’ll give you that as I honestly don’t care much about games so I don’t know much. I’ve read somewhere that apple has a game porting toolkit similar to proton and whisky was good enough the one time I wanted to launch a windows one but I don’t know if it’s any good.
Rufus is the first (and only) program I install on Windows =]
You use Edge? Why?
Was a bit tongue in cheek. Edge can download Linux. Rufus puts it on a USB stick, and goodbye Windows. Then, I can use my computer.
No, just familiarity what you’re sold on.
Yup, even though I’m 95% linux now, I realized that having a debloated windows on a separate drive for a small handful of stuff was easier than trying to make it work on Bazzite.
simple, Linux.
It’s not useless. It will enable MS to build the walled garden they want, where you are forced to use the software they permit you to and nothing else.
Euh… How? Coming from somebody that has a dualboot system with tpm and secure boot lol
Didn’t they do that since win7?
If they keep this up when are they going to offer to buy me a new PC for the new OS?
They won’t, but they bought me a brand new shiny copy of Linux Mint.
I’ll keep running W10 on my current machine, but when I build the next one I’m very seriously considering going Linux. My only concern is that many of the software I use regularly don’t have Linux versions.
I wanna do that ngl same concern.
But I managed to run affinity on wine which is great.
And also every piece of software you use in Linux has to have some form of backing from the community or it dies. That said there have been well supported softwares over the years that are still here with us and support everything you did with them for 20 years or longer. Sometimes you just gotta open an old file with an old version of the software so you can bring it up to date.
I’m just saying that the software is different, does different things, Acts differently and is differently supported than windows. It also does differently. As an example or recent memory…scyncthing, the crazy cool backup thing is now “dead” because nobody gave money to the developer and he got tired of putting up with Google and Android. Scyncthing-fork came from it and who knows if anyone is going to keep using that. I’m migrating to a gui-less tool called rsync. Yeah, stuff can die overnight. But it keeps running for a few years, you just gotta remember to jump ship ⚓🚢. Linux is for those who like the adventure or support the software.
Wait what, Syncthing is dead? But it’s what I use!
I know, surprise!
Only the android client, just use the fork I think he updated before the official one did anyway. Still it’s another case of Google constantly changing the rules on developers for no reason.
Why not timeshift?
Yes, it’ll be part of the subscription package. Similar to your phone.
as per usual, Microsoft remains the biggest advertiser to Linux
Makes sense, they are a big contributor to the kernel
Bro istg if I reboot my windows separate ssd and it’s windows 11 am fully gonna use Linux
Not as bad as a recent security patch which unexpectedly upgraded Windows Server 2022 to 2025 causing at least a few outages I know about for our clients.
And when you try to install, they’ll say “no you can’t, get a new computer”
Microsoft is really in to the Year of Linux Desktop thing
Can’t be nagged about Windows 11 if you never switched to SecureBoot.
<img alt="" src="https://feddit.uk/pictrs/image/bb8ba0d0-4793-41c1-94f5-4b05f370c7af.webp">
Can’t be nagged about Windows 11 if you
never switched to SecureBoot.use Linux.ftfy
We’ll see. I’ve set the Group policy to limit feature updates to Win 10 22H2. I will be unhappy if they over-ride or reset a GPO.
Until the AI stuff I would have loved to get an upgrade. Now… Not so much. And good thing my computer doesn’t qualify due to their arbitrary standards.
With my TPM chip off I do not qualify either, I guess at some point windows will upgrade without my intervention then be bricked, plz Proton make the 70 missing vr titles in my library work, you are my only hope!
Genuine question: why not try Linux? You’ll continue to get updates without the nagware. There are very few games I play that cant run on proton at this point.
Multiplayer gaming. I love games like Foxhole and they usually have a bit of trouble on Linux.
I’m going to upgrade to Ubuntu
Why are they pushing so hard for people to upgrade? I don’t understand