but the law is the law: just because you own something doesn’t mean you can do whatever you want with it.
it’s illegal to kill someone with a smartphone, too
brygphilomena@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 03 Oct 15:21
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Except we aren’t talking about the law. We are talking about corporations that sell you something and then retain control over it.
You have no say in the process, you have no representation. These are not rules that we as a society have determined to be in the best interests of all of us. These are unilateral decisions placed upon us. You have no recourse if you disagree other than don’t use the thing.
Guns don’t prevent you from doing anything. You still have the capability to do whatever you want with the thing. However, if you use it in a manner than harms someone else, in a way that we as a society have proposed, voted, and created laws prohibiting, then you deal with the consequences. But that is very different from having something in the gun that prevents it from taking ammo from another manufacturer. Or making it unable to shoot unless you pay a monthly fee.
The law does nothing to restrict us in that capacity.
there are countless laws which govern specifically how you use software and hardware. it’s hilarious you thought you could just spout such a plain and obvious lie, lol
Right, you can’t break the law. Gun manufacturers are very explicitly not responsible if you break the law with one of the items they manufactured.
This is more like the gun manufacturer coming back two years after you bought it and preventing you from using bullets from a vendor they don’t approve of.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 04 Oct 03:50
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No it’s not. When you buy a gun you’re not buying it with web connected software running it that is constantly updated and changed, and is actually a selling point, that you knew about when you bought it, and that you agreed to.
if that’s what you think I said, then you should improve your reading comprehension.
still waiting on that evidence to back up your claim, though-- you know, other than you not understanding what I said.
ChilledPeppers@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 03 Oct 18:19
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I feel like I am feeding a troll, but let me break this down:
If you have a gun, you can point it at anything and pull the trigger, you don’t need the permission of the manufacturer to do so.
Not with a phone, you CAN’T load any software you want into your phone.
That’s the difference, you can do whatever you want with a gun, and if you mess up, you go to jail. You can’t do whatever you want with your phone, only what the corp.s (apple) allow you to.
Control is a key part of ownership. If Google controls what you can install on a device, it isn’t yours.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 04 Oct 03:59
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Nah, you control your google powered phone as in you can decide to sell it, throw it away, repair it, etc. You don’t get ownership of the software that it runs though, or what that updates Google send your way. You can certainly choose not to update it, but you just miss out on anything that requires those updates - like access to the Google play services.
You’re licking those corporate boots awfully hard for someone calling themselves Freedom advocate.
You can certainly choose not to update it, but you just miss out on anything that requires those updates - like access to the Google play services.
And that will do wonders for the security that Google claims is the reason behind this change, won’t it.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 04 Oct 03:54
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This isn’t true in regards to basically anything that runs closed source software. You can do whatever you can, but there are plenty of things you might want to do that you can’t do. That doesn’t mean you don’t own it.
Its also funny how they edit their comment on their downvotes because it upset them.
Capricorn_Geriatric@lemmy.world
on 03 Oct 20:33
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“Ownership” totally does mean it’s yours and you can do whatever you want with it.
That means you can do it, not that you should, nor that what you do won’t have consequences.
It just means your phone won’t stop you from downloading an unapproved app just like a gun won’t stop you from loading an unapproved bullet.
It means your gun has a safety mechanism you can unlock to shoot, as does your phone to download “unverified” apps.
It means you can sell either freely to someone else without it becoming bricked or the new owner losing any rights (lookin’ at you, Tesla cars).
It means defaulting on the loan will require the physical reposession of your phone or gun, and that neither will magically lock you out of using it using telemetry.
It means anyone with the right knowledge and tools can fix your phone and it’ll work, just like your gun.
It means your phone works for you, and not for someone else - just like your gun.
Your phone is a tool. Just like your gun. It can be used for good - and for bad.
What you do with it is up to you, and not up to it or its manufacturer.
It means you can shoot people with your gun, just as you can extort and blackmail people with your phone. Nothing, other than your own morality, the morals of society and therule of law are preventing you from doing bad things. Certainly not the will of the manufacturer.
Any forensic inquiry into a phone on a crime scene would be like that of a gun.
Any taking of your phone from your home or person would require a warrant - like with a gun.
Any inquiry into your phone’s contents and qualities should require outside tools - like a similar inquiry into your gun.
Your phone won’t have a special police-only history of what you’ve used it for - like your gun.
Your phone won’t report what you’ve been doing with it to 3rd parties without your consent - like won’t your gun.
And so on.
JackFrostNCola@aussie.zone
on 04 Oct 00:46
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As a non-american, using a gun as your comparison object is just so bizarre (and unrelatable).
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 04 Oct 03:45
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Ownership of a phone doesn’t mean that the makers of said phone have to give you the source code and build in ways for you to be able to do things they don’t want.
Your own the device that does what it was advertised as. That’s it.
Capricorn_Geriatric@lemmy.world
on 04 Oct 04:10
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“A phone’s schematics are publically available, like those of a gun”
I can assure you, I’ve written no such thing in my original reply.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 04 Oct 03:36
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Yeah if you thought Reddit was delusional about things like rights and ownership you’ve come to the wrong place lol. Lemmy and blue sky are the only places in the internet that can make some of Reddit look even slightly intelligent.
INHALE_VEGETABLES@aussie.zone
on 04 Oct 07:41
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Truth post. You don’t even have to enjoy the facts that you post. Lemmy is far too unhinged and emotional.
If you state any fact they don’t like, you are downvoted.
I lovingly embrace any and all ironic downvotes I will get.
Seeth with me ❤️
Reverendender@sh.itjust.works
on 03 Oct 12:09
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blargh513@sh.itjust.works
on 03 Oct 13:59
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All the apple fans out down voting today…
FYI this may not be the time to take allegiance with them if you at all understand what is going on.
BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world
on 03 Oct 14:13
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If you understand what is going on then you understand that, as of right now, all mobile users are thoroughly fucked. Google is about to gatekeep all Android app development and we don’t have any serious third options. The monopoly noose is tightening around the world’s neck.
Apple, Google, they are both greedy, evil, abusive corporate oligarchs. “Apple bad” helps nobody. Google is just as bad. We need more options. Until Graphene works on non-Google devices, it’s not much of an alternative. Until UBPorts gets more support and adoption, it’s not much of an alternative either. We’re in a very bad place.
blargh513@sh.itjust.works
on 03 Oct 14:16
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I’m very well aware, but the apple folks tend to be a LOT more dogmatic and vocal. When people talk shit about android, nobody really cares. Do it to apple? Jfc.
I am pointing this out because the current mess will never change for the better until apple users stop supporting apple. No, you dont have a lot of choices, but stop signaling support for them. Get mad and demand better. Be vocal about THAT.
I have a great dislike for Apple, and have never bought or used any of their products. I still downvoted the comment because it’s wrong (use doesn’t define general intelligence), toxic, and misguided (attacks those that we would prefer to change).
You thinking downvotes are (mainly? fully?) apple fans speaks volumes.
Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works
on 04 Oct 07:28
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I just want to say I laughed at this.
This is like claiming most people downvoting ICE might not be conservatives.
Like, congrats if you’re being genuine… You’re like the Hispanic Trump voters. You think you’re doing something good, but you’re just helping the wrong side win.
No one said it would be shut down, the thing all these clickbait articles leave out of the headline is “as we know it”, which means it will change significantly.
brbposting@sh.itjust.works
on 03 Oct 14:52
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Could the EFF or individuals sponsor apps from devs who refuse to identify to Big Goog?
Dev sends EFF the source code,
EFF registers with Google,
EFF submits the app,
Everybody’s happy except a number of people for obvious reasons but at least the app’s verified
brygphilomena@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 03 Oct 15:24
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That sounds like just changing who is verifying the developer. Whether it’s the EFF (because they aren’t going to put their name and reputation at risk for unreviewed source code) or google, the issue is the same.
Someone has to be the middle man in deciding what is allowed to be installed.
Sorry, you’re well out of the loop on this one, boss. Sideloading has been common practice for thousands? millions? of users since the beginning of android. There are plenty of apps not listed on Google Play - the ones that come top mind are Fortnight for a time and now the Epic Games Store app, and some VPN apps that couldn’t offer features like ad/malware blocking in their Play store versions. Sideloading means downloading an executable install file (an .APK file in this case) rather than installing from Google Play. And they are SEVERELY limiting this ability next year.
No one sideloads? Have you not heard of this niche indie game called Fornite that was removed from Google Play and Epic pushed sideloading means to install it?
I don’t think people got your point. I assume you meant that people aren’t “sideloading” in android yet, because you just download an APK file and install it. Same as installing an EXE file in windows outside of the Microsoft Store is not called “sideloading” either.
black_flag@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 03 Oct 12:39
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ICEBlock was really poorly designed from what I understand.
I don’t know of the take-down legit but the security of the app has been questioned, too.
Edit: The removal was bullshit. Apple should be pressured to put it back. But, the developer or someone else could do much better.
defaultusername@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 03 Oct 15:35
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IIRC it’s also not open source, which for me is a big barrier to using it and trusting it at all (other than it being iOS-only).
fdnomad@programming.dev
on 03 Oct 13:04
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Was there any reason to make this an ios app as opposed to a website hosted outside the US? I’m really not surprised by the removal. What did they expect? All the Tech CEOs came to the inauguration with bags of cash.
eatCasserole@lemmy.world
on 03 Oct 14:06
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Yeah good point. Plus if it’s a website you can use it in private mode and not have evidence that you were helping people evade the gestapo all over your phone.
brucethemoose@lemmy.world
on 03 Oct 14:22
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Barrier to entry.
Many (dare I say most) folks don’t know how to use a web browser, much less find a web app. Installing an App Store app is much easier.
It’s also much lower visibility for those who do know.
And that’s especially critical for this app, which relies on tons of people using it.
captainastronaut@seattlelunarsociety.org
on 03 Oct 14:53
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Building an iOS app is faster and simpler than building a web app. The developer also said he took advantage of some privacy features in the iOS development kit that made it easy to keep people anonymous.
defaultusername@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 03 Oct 15:28
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But Apple still knows you downloaded and used the app. Apple collects plenty of data on iOS, and their “privacy” marketing only applies to third party apps downloaded from the App Store.
dangling_cat@piefed.blahaj.zone
on 03 Oct 15:58
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The only reason I can think of is the cost. Apple makes the map API free if you use Apple Maps on Apple devices. If you are building a website, you have to pay for Mapbox or Google Maps, etc., that can get pricey for indie developers.
But anyway, these apps are all about accessibility to regular folks. Believe it or not many people don’t know how to bookmark a website. Also this app gives you notifications, something a website could only do via email or something.
Yep, Strava doesn’t have any problems using OpenStreetMaps. No reason they couldn’t either.
Prove_your_argument@piefed.social
on 03 Oct 13:52
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People are so stupid in this country. Do what the EU did and make it law that they have to offer sideloading and other app stores and payment methods.
It should be the law to begin with. This walled garden shit is really just another word for controlling what the user does with the device they purchased and not allowing them to do business with anybody else exclusively to add software without apple’s approval and protection racket fee.
brucethemoose@lemmy.world
on 03 Oct 14:18
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It wouldn’t help.
In this case, even if the app was side-loadable and had a web app, that’s enough of a technical hurdle to kill its critical mass.
In other words, it doesn’t have to be banned; suppressing ICEBlock is basically enough to kill it.
Arguably, if it was normal to sideload apps it wouldn’t be as much of a barrier to users, but they’ve been conditionned to think they need an app and the only place you can ever get them is the store.
It’s a technical hurdle only because Apple decided they want to control everything, and same on Android because of Google’s ever increasing war on sideloading. You used to download an APK from the browser and it would go like “This is an app! Install?”, but now you have to go enable third party installation and all that, and now the whole Play Protect forcing developer validation coming up.
brucethemoose@lemmy.world
on 03 Oct 16:07
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You are overestimating how technical most folks are. I know kids and older adults, on either side of my age, that have no concept of a filesystem, a URL, an APK to download, things like that, because they’ve never needed any of that.
Attention is finite.
Hence, web app’s aren’t really blocked by iOS/Android, but that’s still a basically insurmountable hurdle simply because it’s not the usual procedure for operating a phone. Defaults and accessibility are king (and Apple/Google know it).
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 04 Oct 03:25
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The EU shouldn’t be concerned about any of that, because it’s none of their business tbh.
If you want to install whatever OS you want on a phone, you’re free to go and make a phone and’s do just that. No governments should be able to force a company to do what you’re asking. It’s snaked to even suggest that Apple would shell out billions on hardware design etc and then be forced to give people a way to run AOSP on it and have it work.
Do you people even hear yourself? Should Sony be forced to build a way for you to be able to install AppleTV on their TVs? Should Nintendo be forced to build functionality to let users install windows on the Switch 2, making drivers for everything etc?
defaultusername@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 03 Oct 15:33
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Yeah, you still can’t install arbitrary IPA files on iOS.
Everything is about control. The internet was left open by accident for a while and they are working hard to “fix” it. They are just trying to be slightly less obvious about it than China was. All of the forced AI tools, required apps and stuff like that are just ways to move users away from the open web.
Once most users restrict their Internet usage to ONLY content provided by the large companies (for example, once people no longer click on any Google result), then Internet providers will start granting access to the content from large companies for free and charge a lot more for access to anything else.
In 10, maybe 20 years, we will be needing to tell our internet providers when we change jobs so that they may change which “custom” internet services we get to have access to specifically for work.
pineapplelover@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 03 Oct 16:35
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Brings new meaning to Google’s decision to (effectively) block side loading on Android
Sludgehammer@lemmy.world
on 03 Oct 16:53
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Being constantly tracked is for the plebs, not the Elites or their enforcers.
HubertManne@piefed.social
on 03 Oct 18:42
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Back in the aughts I was an apple fanboy. Later they no longer had the edge but I won’t say it was completely not an option. Now it is completely not an option.
We all believed they cared about privacy back then, I just never got one because side loading is essencial for me.
HubertManne@piefed.social
on 03 Oct 18:55
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honestly I never liked smartphones. it was mostly about the freebsd based os, large with lots of power and ports (this was the aughts), and the apple care was amazing. Once that went away it just made sense to save money but now its like they could be the cheap option and like no. ewww. linux was not as great at that point to.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 04 Oct 03:22
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What does this have to do with privacy?
Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works
on 04 Oct 07:05
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Lol. “we”. No, I was never convinced. I’m sorry, but you might be far more gullible than you think you are.
Hasn’t the developer been proven to be kind of a dick. Wasn’t there some story a while ago about how they weren’t really handling the data in the most secure method (Which given the subject matter is kind of the whole point).
jaschen306@sh.itjust.works
on 03 Oct 23:45
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Or keep it an app, but just be a web wrapper.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 04 Oct 02:34
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Rebrand it with the same tech as something like “Friend Sightings!” It’s not a 1A violation because Apple banned it, it is a 1A violation because the government made them ban it.
this is why having google sign all the apps that can go on your android is a really bad idea and why we criticize apple for being a closed walled garden. please trust the nerds over the corporations bro.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 04 Oct 03:20
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The apps purpose is to aide illegals, break the law, and to incite/encourage political violence against law enforcement - the owner will find himself in a world of hurt the more he pushes this.
INHALE_VEGETABLES@aussie.zone
on 04 Oct 04:24
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The app is for citizens who look like migrants, that are interested in avoiding racially clumsy agents.
threaded - newest
Yup. That would do it.
Apple fans gave up years ago, though. They don’t want to give any effort. That’s why you’re being downvoted.
You don’t own your device.
Wrong
“Ownership“ doesn’t mean “I can do whatever I want with it”.
edit: wow, Redditors are better at accepting the truth, lol
It should
you think people who own guns should be allowed to “do whatever they want” with them?
how many mass shootings do we already have each week?
Thats Apples and Oranges. Owning a phone is not like owning a a gun.
but the law is the law: just because you own something doesn’t mean you can do whatever you want with it.
it’s illegal to kill someone with a smartphone, too
Except we aren’t talking about the law. We are talking about corporations that sell you something and then retain control over it.
You have no say in the process, you have no representation. These are not rules that we as a society have determined to be in the best interests of all of us. These are unilateral decisions placed upon us. You have no recourse if you disagree other than don’t use the thing.
Guns don’t prevent you from doing anything. You still have the capability to do whatever you want with the thing. However, if you use it in a manner than harms someone else, in a way that we as a society have proposed, voted, and created laws prohibiting, then you deal with the consequences. But that is very different from having something in the gun that prevents it from taking ammo from another manufacturer. Or making it unable to shoot unless you pay a monthly fee.
of course we are. in a society, we live by laws which govern our behavior.
regardless of whether you can accept that, it’s the facts.
No. We weren’t. This discussion was about phones and the software we are being allowed to install on them.
The law does nothing to restrict us in that capacity. The restrictions are imposed by the manufacturer of the phone.
You made the fallacious false equivalency of comparing that with guns and laws.
there are countless laws which govern specifically how you use software and hardware. it’s hilarious you thought you could just spout such a plain and obvious lie, lol
What makes you think the ICEBlock app removal is about the law or following the law?
what makes you think it wasn’t?
The guy you’re replying to celebrated the political assassination of Charlie Kirk, so I wouldn’t bother If I was you.
Right, you can’t break the law. Gun manufacturers are very explicitly not responsible if you break the law with one of the items they manufactured.
This is more like the gun manufacturer coming back two years after you bought it and preventing you from using bullets from a vendor they don’t approve of.
No it’s not. When you buy a gun you’re not buying it with web connected software running it that is constantly updated and changed, and is actually a selling point, that you knew about when you bought it, and that you agreed to.
Taking away functionality is a selling point? What a load of bullshit.
They can do whatever they want with them, that’s why we have shootings.
no, they can’t, which is why they don’t just walk out free and clear after the massacre.
lol
If they couldn’t, then they wouldn’t, but they obviously can, because they do. This is not complicated.
except that doesn’t happen.
but, go on. post some link to a news article where some school shooter just walked away free afterwards.
go on…
…you just said it did. That was the initiation of this entire conversation.
if that’s what you think I said, then you should improve your reading comprehension.
still waiting on that evidence to back up your claim, though-- you know, other than you not understanding what I said.
I feel like I am feeding a troll, but let me break this down:
If you have a gun, you can point it at anything and pull the trigger, you don’t need the permission of the manufacturer to do so.
Not with a phone, you CAN’T load any software you want into your phone.
That’s the difference, you can do whatever you want with a gun, and if you mess up, you go to jail. You can’t do whatever you want with your phone, only what the corp.s (apple) allow you to.
You explain this as if makes. Difference.
It doesn’t.
“Ownership“ does not mean you can “do whatever you want“.
Since I’m not capable of convincing you of this, here’s the dictionary definition and proof that you are wrong.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/9d14a3ac-5113-4049-9767-bd63ba575c18.png">
“Dictionary definition”
Google
Go lick a boot mate.
If they don’t break the law then yes
What a fucking stupid moronic take. Go back to reddit
.
Wrong
You can’t sew time.
But that’s what it means. Or at least, it used to
it never meant that you can do whatever you want.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/c96d30e0-f071-4712-82fa-224ecf0baf31.png">
But possessing something indicates that you have rights over it that others do not. In this case, you have no rights that G doesn’t.
not always, and what rights you may have vary widely depending on the object, the location, and who you are.
and, still, you can’t do “whatever you want”. there are limits to everything, and for good reason.
so, I don’t know what your point is here other than that you’ve confused the word “ownership” with your own sense of entitlement
So go pander to them.
If I own something, I can do whatever I like with it because it’s mine.
If I can’t do what I like, it’s not truly mine.
.
.
.
The state of having complete legal control of something;
Ownership is the state or fact of legal possession and control over property,
the act of having and controlling property
Control is a key part of ownership. If Google controls what you can install on a device, it isn’t yours.
Nah, you control your google powered phone as in you can decide to sell it, throw it away, repair it, etc. You don’t get ownership of the software that it runs though, or what that updates Google send your way. You can certainly choose not to update it, but you just miss out on anything that requires those updates - like access to the Google play services.
You’re licking those corporate boots awfully hard for someone calling themselves Freedom advocate.
And that will do wonders for the security that Google claims is the reason behind this change, won’t it.
This isn’t true in regards to basically anything that runs closed source software. You can do whatever you can, but there are plenty of things you might want to do that you can’t do. That doesn’t mean you don’t own it.
I love when newbie accounts think lemmy is reddit. Makes them easier to ignore.
.
Its also funny how they edit their comment on their downvotes because it upset them.
“Ownership” totally does mean it’s yours and you can do whatever you want with it.
That means you can do it, not that you should, nor that what you do won’t have consequences.
It just means your phone won’t stop you from downloading an unapproved app just like a gun won’t stop you from loading an unapproved bullet.
It means your gun has a safety mechanism you can unlock to shoot, as does your phone to download “unverified” apps.
It means you can sell either freely to someone else without it becoming bricked or the new owner losing any rights (lookin’ at you, Tesla cars).
It means defaulting on the loan will require the physical reposession of your phone or gun, and that neither will magically lock you out of using it using telemetry.
It means anyone with the right knowledge and tools can fix your phone and it’ll work, just like your gun.
It means your phone works for you, and not for someone else - just like your gun.
Your phone is a tool. Just like your gun. It can be used for good - and for bad.
What you do with it is up to you, and not up to it or its manufacturer.
It means you can shoot people with your gun, just as you can extort and blackmail people with your phone. Nothing, other than your own morality, the morals of society and therule of law are preventing you from doing bad things. Certainly not the will of the manufacturer.
Any forensic inquiry into a phone on a crime scene would be like that of a gun.
Any taking of your phone from your home or person would require a warrant - like with a gun.
Any inquiry into your phone’s contents and qualities should require outside tools - like a similar inquiry into your gun.
Your phone won’t have a special police-only history of what you’ve used it for - like your gun.
Your phone won’t report what you’ve been doing with it to 3rd parties without your consent - like won’t your gun.
And so on.
As a non-american, using a gun as your comparison object is just so bizarre (and unrelatable).
Ownership of a phone doesn’t mean that the makers of said phone have to give you the source code and build in ways for you to be able to do things they don’t want.
Your own the device that does what it was advertised as. That’s it.
“A phone’s schematics are publically available, like those of a gun”
I can assure you, I’ve written no such thing in my original reply.
Yeah if you thought Reddit was delusional about things like rights and ownership you’ve come to the wrong place lol. Lemmy and blue sky are the only places in the internet that can make some of Reddit look even slightly intelligent.
Truth post. You don’t even have to enjoy the facts that you post. Lemmy is far too unhinged and emotional.
If you state any fact they don’t like, you are downvoted.
I lovingly embrace any and all ironic downvotes I will get.
Seeth with me ❤️
It’s still on my phone! Sorry Tim Apple!
Still on mine as well. Why were folks slow to add this app?
I didn’t know it existed.
Some people are republicans? 🤷♂️
(I know, I can’t explain it either.)
Pretty sure Tim Apple couldn’t care less, he just has to appease the Tangerine in Chief.
You supported Apple if your own their phone. You helped them do this.
Stop. Fucking. Using. Apple. Products.
Why would you pay 1k+ for a phone you don’t even own/control?
.
All the apple fans out down voting today…
FYI this may not be the time to take allegiance with them if you at all understand what is going on.
If you understand what is going on then you understand that, as of right now, all mobile users are thoroughly fucked. Google is about to gatekeep all Android app development and we don’t have any serious third options. The monopoly noose is tightening around the world’s neck.
Apple, Google, they are both greedy, evil, abusive corporate oligarchs. “Apple bad” helps nobody. Google is just as bad. We need more options. Until Graphene works on non-Google devices, it’s not much of an alternative. Until UBPorts gets more support and adoption, it’s not much of an alternative either. We’re in a very bad place.
I’m very well aware, but the apple folks tend to be a LOT more dogmatic and vocal. When people talk shit about android, nobody really cares. Do it to apple? Jfc.
I am pointing this out because the current mess will never change for the better until apple users stop supporting apple. No, you dont have a lot of choices, but stop signaling support for them. Get mad and demand better. Be vocal about THAT.
.
.
Oh, let’s rewrite history, eh?
Android allows sideloading for over two decades, but sure… BoTH sIdEs aRe thE sAmE.
Let’s pretend Apple’s wild success isn’t to blame for this.
I have a great dislike for Apple, and have never bought or used any of their products. I still downvoted the comment because it’s wrong (use doesn’t define general intelligence), toxic, and misguided (attacks those that we would prefer to change).
You thinking downvotes are (mainly? fully?) apple fans speaks volumes.
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What makes me a moron?
I just want to say I laughed at this.
This is like claiming most people downvoting ICE might not be conservatives.
Like, congrats if you’re being genuine… You’re like the Hispanic Trump voters. You think you’re doing something good, but you’re just helping the wrong side win.
What do you base this on?
Lemmy seem quite heavily skewed towards non-apple users.
What specifically makes me like a Hispanic Trump voter? Where’s the equivalence of self-sabotage?
In what way do I help the wrong side win?
You’ve heard about Android, right? We all have like six months to find a new platform.
In their defense, that’s a lot longer than Apple users have had in the last DECADE.
on google based phones if using google services, the product is you
Lol. As if apple is any different. Stop drinking the Kool Aid.
With this and Google stopping side loading in Android, I’m going to be looking hard into Linux phones.
They’re not stopping it, they are planning to introduce it to the platform; no one sideloads on Android today, because it’s not a walled garden yet.
F-Droid is a staple of the FOSS community and it will effectively be shut down due to these changes.
https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/f-droid-project-threatened-by-googles-new-dev-registration-rules/
No one said it would be shut down, the thing all these clickbait articles leave out of the headline is “as we know it”, which means it will change significantly.
Could the EFF or individuals sponsor apps from devs who refuse to identify to Big Goog?
Dev sends EFF the source code,
EFF registers with Google,
EFF submits the app,
Everybody’s happy except a number of people for obvious reasons but at least the app’s verified
That sounds like just changing who is verifying the developer. Whether it’s the EFF (because they aren’t going to put their name and reputation at risk for unreviewed source code) or google, the issue is the same.
Someone has to be the middle man in deciding what is allowed to be installed.
Sorry, you’re well out of the loop on this one, boss. Sideloading has been common practice for thousands? millions? of users since the beginning of android. There are plenty of apps not listed on Google Play - the ones that come top mind are Fortnight for a time and now the Epic Games Store app, and some VPN apps that couldn’t offer features like ad/malware blocking in their Play store versions. Sideloading means downloading an executable install file (an .APK file in this case) rather than installing from Google Play. And they are SEVERELY limiting this ability next year.
No one sideloads? Have you not heard of this niche indie game called Fornite that was removed from Google Play and Epic pushed sideloading means to install it?
I don’t think people got your point. I assume you meant that people aren’t “sideloading” in android yet, because you just download an APK file and install it. Same as installing an EXE file in windows outside of the Microsoft Store is not called “sideloading” either.
ICEBlock was really poorly designed from what I understand.
For people downvoting the above, read some criticisms the app such as:
micahflee.com/unfortunately-the-iceblock-app-is-a…
I don’t know of the take-down legit but the security of the app has been questioned, too.
Edit: The removal was bullshit. Apple should be pressured to put it back. But, the developer or someone else could do much better.
IIRC it’s also not open source, which for me is a big barrier to using it and trusting it at all (other than it being iOS-only).
Was there any reason to make this an ios app as opposed to a website hosted outside the US? I’m really not surprised by the removal. What did they expect? All the Tech CEOs came to the inauguration with bags of cash.
Yeah good point. Plus if it’s a website you can use it in private mode and not have evidence that you were helping people evade the gestapo all over your phone.
Barrier to entry.
Many (dare I say most) folks don’t know how to use a web browser, much less find a web app. Installing an App Store app is much easier.
It’s also much lower visibility for those who do know.
And that’s especially critical for this app, which relies on tons of people using it.
The creator is a dumdum
Building an iOS app is faster and simpler than building a web app. The developer also said he took advantage of some privacy features in the iOS development kit that made it easy to keep people anonymous.
But Apple still knows you downloaded and used the app. Apple collects plenty of data on iOS, and their “privacy” marketing only applies to third party apps downloaded from the App Store.
The only reason I can think of is the cost. Apple makes the map API free if you use Apple Maps on Apple devices. If you are building a website, you have to pay for Mapbox or Google Maps, etc., that can get pricey for indie developers.
Isn’t Open Street Map free?
But anyway, these apps are all about accessibility to regular folks. Believe it or not many people don’t know how to bookmark a website. Also this app gives you notifications, something a website could only do via email or something.
Yep, Strava doesn’t have any problems using OpenStreetMaps. No reason they couldn’t either.
People are so stupid in this country. Do what the EU did and make it law that they have to offer sideloading and other app stores and payment methods.
It should be the law to begin with. This walled garden shit is really just another word for controlling what the user does with the device they purchased and not allowing them to do business with anybody else exclusively to add software without apple’s approval and protection racket fee.
It wouldn’t help.
In this case, even if the app was side-loadable and had a web app, that’s enough of a technical hurdle to kill its critical mass.
In other words, it doesn’t have to be banned; suppressing ICEBlock is basically enough to kill it.
Arguably, if it was normal to sideload apps it wouldn’t be as much of a barrier to users, but they’ve been conditionned to think they need an app and the only place you can ever get them is the store.
It’s a technical hurdle only because Apple decided they want to control everything, and same on Android because of Google’s ever increasing war on sideloading. You used to download an APK from the browser and it would go like “This is an app! Install?”, but now you have to go enable third party installation and all that, and now the whole Play Protect forcing developer validation coming up.
You are overestimating how technical most folks are. I know kids and older adults, on either side of my age, that have no concept of a filesystem, a URL, an APK to download, things like that, because they’ve never needed any of that.
Attention is finite.
Hence, web app’s aren’t really blocked by iOS/Android, but that’s still a basically insurmountable hurdle simply because it’s not the usual procedure for operating a phone. Defaults and accessibility are king (and Apple/Google know it).
EU didn’t do anything except lower the tax on developers from 30% to 27%. And they still require Apple’s rubber stamp to install.
They should have been concerned about OS lock-in, instead of app store lock-in. Imagine being able to install the OS of your choice on your phone.
Why not both?
The EU shouldn’t be concerned about any of that, because it’s none of their business tbh.
If you want to install whatever OS you want on a phone, you’re free to go and make a phone and’s do just that. No governments should be able to force a company to do what you’re asking. It’s snaked to even suggest that Apple would shell out billions on hardware design etc and then be forced to give people a way to run AOSP on it and have it work.
Do you people even hear yourself? Should Sony be forced to build a way for you to be able to install AppleTV on their TVs? Should Nintendo be forced to build functionality to let users install windows on the Switch 2, making drivers for everything etc?
Yeah, you still can’t install arbitrary IPA files on iOS.
Everything is about control. The internet was left open by accident for a while and they are working hard to “fix” it. They are just trying to be slightly less obvious about it than China was. All of the forced AI tools, required apps and stuff like that are just ways to move users away from the open web.
Once most users restrict their Internet usage to ONLY content provided by the large companies (for example, once people no longer click on any Google result), then Internet providers will start granting access to the content from large companies for free and charge a lot more for access to anything else.
In 10, maybe 20 years, we will be needing to tell our internet providers when we change jobs so that they may change which “custom” internet services we get to have access to specifically for work.
This is what sideloading is supposed to prevent
Brings new meaning to Google’s decision to (effectively) block side loading on Android
Being constantly tracked is for the plebs, not the Elites or their enforcers.
Back in the aughts I was an apple fanboy. Later they no longer had the edge but I won’t say it was completely not an option. Now it is completely not an option.
We all believed they cared about privacy back then, I just never got one because side loading is essencial for me.
honestly I never liked smartphones. it was mostly about the freebsd based os, large with lots of power and ports (this was the aughts), and the apple care was amazing. Once that went away it just made sense to save money but now its like they could be the cheap option and like no. ewww. linux was not as great at that point to.
What does this have to do with privacy?
Lol. “we”. No, I was never convinced. I’m sorry, but you might be far more gullible than you think you are.
We all believed? What?
Just in case, if you’re (still) a Nintendo, Sony, Tesla, Disney, Spotify, … fan, it’s not too late to change your mind about them too :)
Totally agree, but what to do? Just forsake all entertainment, media, and technology at this point?
High seas
There are a lot of alternatives to these corpos
!piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
I’ve cut those out, except tesla because I never had one, and never will
im off almost everything.
Fuck the app just make it web based
And then Android could use it too, so many apps should just be websites.
Hasn’t the developer been proven to be kind of a dick. Wasn’t there some story a while ago about how they weren’t really handling the data in the most secure method (Which given the subject matter is kind of the whole point).
Or keep it an app, but just be a web wrapper.
Those aren’t allowed anymore.
Rebrand it with the same tech as something like “Friend Sightings!” It’s not a 1A violation because Apple banned it, it is a 1A violation because the government made them ban it.
this is why having google sign all the apps that can go on your android is a really bad idea and why we criticize apple for being a closed walled garden. please trust the nerds over the corporations bro.
The apps purpose is to aide illegals, break the law, and to incite/encourage political violence against law enforcement - the owner will find himself in a world of hurt the more he pushes this.
The app is for citizens who look like migrants, that are interested in avoiding racially clumsy agents.
What law is being broken?
The world has zero respect for you, MAGA. None.
.
So that was a lie
Do you own an iPhone? Oh, hey, you helped ICE.
Yes, you did.