Microsoft says its Recall uninstall option in Windows 11 is just a bug (www.theverge.com)
from moe90@feddit.nl to technology@lemmy.world on 02 Sep 2024 10:48
https://feddit.nl/post/20413611

#technology

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latenightnoir@lemmy.world on 02 Sep 2024 10:54 next collapse

The jokes are becoming reality, I swear…

octopus_ink@lemmy.ml on 02 Sep 2024 11:06 next collapse

It’s just too easy to dunk on MS these days. It’s like shooting fish in a barrel.

don@lemm.ee on 02 Sep 2024 13:41 next collapse

It’s like shooting fish in a barrel.

Twice. At point blank range. To the back of the head. With an elephant gun.

msage@programming.dev on 02 Sep 2024 20:11 collapse

Or a mortar. Point blank.

helenslunch@feddit.nl on 02 Sep 2024 15:15 collapse

Have you ever tried to shoot fish in a barrel?

MacStache@programming.dev on 02 Sep 2024 19:07 collapse

Well, since the fish are just laying there, at the bottom, motionless and dead it’s pretty easy.

helenslunch@feddit.nl on 02 Sep 2024 21:20 collapse

Who said they were dead?

MacStache@programming.dev on 03 Sep 2024 02:18 collapse

Who said they were alive? The whole premises of the saying is that things are easy.

sirico@feddit.uk on 02 Sep 2024 11:11 next collapse

Altogether now children “It’s a bug until…it’s a feature!”

TWeaK@lemm.ee on 02 Sep 2024 11:11 next collapse

/me Laughs in Windows 10.

andrewta@lemmy.world on 02 Sep 2024 11:43 next collapse

I’m still on windows ten. Currently trying to switch to Linux. What are your plans when end of life /support comes to Windows ten?

rocketpoweredredneck@sh.itjust.works on 02 Sep 2024 11:50 next collapse

Im in the same boat, I’ll either move to some cracked version of windows without the recall bs, or more likely some linux distro.

ililiililiililiilili@lemm.ee on 02 Sep 2024 13:59 collapse

There’s no reason to trust any homebrew or cracked Windows ISO. Just go with Win 10 LTSC. All the bullshit is removed and it has support until 2027. MAS flawlessly activates it. Linux is indeed the better option, and I’ll be heading that way soon enough.

TWeaK@lemm.ee on 02 Sep 2024 12:21 next collapse

What are your plans when end of life /support comes to Windows ten?

Switch to Linux and run virtual machines when I need to use Windows.

Right now I don’t quite have the drive to do it, but an end to support for Windows 10 would push me over the edge. I just can’t stand Windows 11, not even because of all the bullshit but just the way it mandates the UI structure - last time I tried it my dealbreaker was that you can’t just have it always display all taskbar icons, you have to manually force each one to show. If a new icon comes up, it will be hidden.

umbrella@lemmy.ml on 02 Sep 2024 13:20 next collapse

this one drove me nuts.

let me use the damn computer the way i want to. its mine, i paid for it. let me use small taskbar icons. let me remove the ads.

LunchMoneyThief@links.hackliberty.org on 02 Sep 2024 16:34 collapse

Your computer, their software.

TWeaK@lemm.ee on 03 Sep 2024 06:18 collapse

Microsoft are unlike Facebook and Google in that they make you pay for the software they use to steal your data.

FinalRemix@lemmy.world on 02 Sep 2024 16:36 next collapse

That doesn’t even make sense… that’s actively antagonistic UI design right there. Goddamn.

polarbearulove@lemmy.world on 02 Sep 2024 17:33 collapse

If you don’t have prior experience with Linux, I’d advise making the switch before the end of win10 support. I made the switch a couple of months ago with no experience in Linux, and while it wasn’t a horrible experience it also wasn’t the easiest thing to do. Having the safety net of a Windows partition was really useful during the month or two as I got used to Linux, which I wouldn’t have wanted to do with Windows not in support anymore.

papabobolious@feddit.nu on 02 Sep 2024 20:35 next collapse

I went all in so I wouldn’t change my mind but the first year I was pretty nuch entirely problem free. I have had issues since, however. But compared to the work I put in on Windows unfucking things I think its been trivial.

TWeaK@lemm.ee on 03 Sep 2024 06:17 collapse

My experience is limited, but not no experience. In any case, it’s not like Windows 10 will be immediately unusable when support ends.

SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org on 02 Sep 2024 13:44 collapse

I might try to setup Win 10 LTSC which has support until 2027, but I mostly use Mint these days. Would still like to avoid Win 11, even if I only use it for gaming.

wreckage@lemmy.world on 02 Sep 2024 11:56 next collapse

/me Laughs in Linux

TWeaK@lemm.ee on 02 Sep 2024 12:19 collapse

I’m sure I’ll be there with you soon enough.

LunchMoneyThief@links.hackliberty.org on 02 Sep 2024 16:33 collapse

It is so strange to see people flexing $PREVIOUS_WINDOWS when $PREVIOUS_WINDOWS itself brought in egregious anti-features that are now normalized and accepted by average users as “not malware”.

FinalRemix@lemmy.world on 02 Sep 2024 16:35 collapse

Yeah, but most if not all of those antifeatures can be removed very easily.

LunchMoneyThief@links.hackliberty.org on 02 Sep 2024 16:47 collapse

I find it much easier to start with a minimal canvas, and then to add only the things I want or need. Than to try to tear down aggressive features until something sane begins to appear from beneath.

<img alt="" src="https://links.hackliberty.org/pictrs/image/9a7ab42e-c71f-4032-a6e2-7d93e21294cd.png">

FinalRemix@lemmy.world on 02 Sep 2024 17:14 collapse

I got too many games and programs installed in my current copy of Win10 to ditch it now, sadly. Too afraid of outright losing shit, or savegames, etc.

Besides O&O (or whatever it’s called) installs via Chocolatey, and you just uncheck the stuff you don’t want. Windows is stripped to bones in like 10 minutes.

BombOmOm@lemmy.world on 02 Sep 2024 21:36 collapse

You might be surprised at how many games just work on Linux. Have been running it on my laptop for a bit now and it hasn’t presented an issue. Check out www.protondb.com.

Had a friend recently ask me to benchmark my PC as he was buying one and wanted a baseline number to compare against. Asked him what he wanted me to benchmark, (it was Mass Effect). The process was: install on steam, hit play on steam. The only annoying part was I had to wait for the new game cinematic to finish before I could get a FPS reading.


O&O Shutup10 is pretty nice though.

solsangraal@lemmy.zip on 02 Sep 2024 11:35 next collapse

it’s not for the end user, it’s for the end user’s boss who wants to monitor all their worker drones’ productivity

conciselyverbose@sh.itjust.works on 02 Sep 2024 11:59 next collapse

They have better tools for that.

solsangraal@lemmy.zip on 02 Sep 2024 12:02 collapse

office boss using tools LOL good one

Passerby6497@lemmy.world on 02 Sep 2024 13:16 collapse

Hey, Steve and Drake are some of the bosses favorite tools!

kbal@fedia.io on 02 Sep 2024 12:31 next collapse

It's not for the end user's boss, it's there to collect data for the future Microsoft user behaviour analysis tools that will be sold to the end user's boss's boss.

solsangraal@lemmy.zip on 02 Sep 2024 12:36 collapse

it can be for 2 things

but it’s definitely not for the benefit of anyone who’s forced to use it

jaybone@lemmy.world on 02 Sep 2024 13:03 next collapse

Why measure performance metrics in terms of output when we can just 1984 everyone’s workstation.

latenightnoir@lemmy.world on 02 Sep 2024 16:58 collapse

Because that would, at one point, imply a full process audit, which will inevitably lead to some shit-stirring, especially in terms of management’s contribution to said output, making it much easier for the worker to see just how underpaid they are and probably hurting some manager’s feewings. We can’t have the truth! Better to Love Big Brother and blame the Drone!

average_joe@lemmynsfw.com on 02 Sep 2024 13:58 collapse

Im pretty sure that’s illegal in EU (or at least in Germany).

kenkenken@fedia.io on 02 Sep 2024 11:37 next collapse

Microsoft is just a bug.

melroy@kbin.melroy.org on 02 Sep 2024 20:03 collapse

Microsoft confirms it's just a bug.

style99@lemm.ee on 02 Sep 2024 12:28 next collapse

Microsoft says it remains on track to preview Recall with Windows Insiders on Copilot Plus PCs in October, after the company has had more time to make major changes to Recall.

Just in time for Halloween. That’ll be sure to give people a good scare.

0x0@programming.dev on 02 Sep 2024 13:35 next collapse

OF course they had to do it in reverse: it’s not a feature, it’s a bug.

SplashJackson@lemmy.ca on 02 Sep 2024 14:00 next collapse

I don’t get it. People riot over less. Why is there not more ire, anger, and vitriol online?

richieadler@lemmy.myserv.one on 02 Sep 2024 14:26 next collapse

People riot

It depends on the country, I’d say.

over less

What is “less” for you?

SplashJackson@lemmy.ca on 02 Sep 2024 15:09 collapse

I rioted once when I stubbed my toe. It was on a new Ikea bed which was a pain to put together, and the fact that it continued to cause me pain just set me over the edge. I went right down to the harbour and threw everything into the water, because let Posidon deal with it, only the bed got me back because I picked the wrong crates, I chucked my tea into the water instead. I was sad. It was 1772

thebestaquaman@lemmy.world on 02 Sep 2024 19:04 collapse

Ngl you had me until the 1772 bit

LunchMoneyThief@links.hackliberty.org on 02 Sep 2024 16:40 next collapse

Why is there not more ire, anger, and vitriol online?

As a more general answer, the web has been neutered with overmoderation and safe space mentality. Ire, anger, vitriol, which are all normal and valid emotions, systematically get hidden away.

Bringing it back to $NEWS_TOPIC, why are people using a software whose changes can bring them to ire, anger and vitriol? It sounds similar to growing angry with an abusive lover. “Why does he hit me?”.

shani66@ani.social on 02 Sep 2024 19:51 collapse

God damn i hate what the Internet has become, i can barely even comment on YouTube

HC4L@lemmy.world on 02 Sep 2024 19:31 next collapse

It’s very carefully being shoved in by touching the waters and seeing how far they can go. The first few times there is outrage but after a while people get tired, miss that it is happening or simply don’t understand what it’s about. The changes aren’t that big but as a whole work towards something nobody wants. Same as with a lot of laws and / or social changes.

LinyosT@sopuli.xyz on 03 Sep 2024 02:56 collapse

A lot of people are really good at justifying the problems by completely missing the point as well. i.e people going “Oh you can just disable/hide/remove xyz” when the issue is that xyz shouldn’t be there at all or be opt in, rather than opt out.

Then there’s the people that listen to these justifications without a second thought or even parroting them, giving them extra legitimacy to other people that come across these takes.

bamboo@lemm.ee on 02 Sep 2024 19:37 collapse

Do they? Sure, people riot all the time with very good reason. But usually it’s like, they don’t have access to food, or they’re being forced to work longer because the retirement age is increased, or maybe because they’re being evicted from their homes. Certainly these issues are not in any way comparable to a software feature that some people dislike.

winterayars@sh.itjust.works on 02 Sep 2024 14:11 next collapse

The fact that they won’t allow users to uninstall it should suggest some things about their motives.

ulkesh@lemmy.world on 02 Sep 2024 14:56 next collapse

That’s okay, I hit the Windows uninstall button back in April. It’s been quite nice ever since!

qjkxbmwvz@startrek.website on 02 Sep 2024 15:54 collapse

…but was it the “Windows Uninstall” button…or the “format /dev/sda1 as ext4” button?

ulkesh@lemmy.world on 02 Sep 2024 16:35 collapse

Nah I used the btrfs button

sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works on 02 Sep 2024 19:31 collapse

Mmm, butter… :)

Love me some btrfs, the snapshots have saved me a few times already…

Kyouki@lemmy.world on 03 Sep 2024 05:06 collapse

The best and set up fully automatically.

Retro_unlimited@lemmy.world on 02 Sep 2024 17:00 next collapse

Is called “Windows” because they are always looking in at you. I have been on Linux since they announced recall, and their fucking one drive kept secretly uploading my desktop files! (Kept seeing sync icons, even with all that disabled). Since then I now have my wife, uncle, dad, friends, etc all running Linux now.

RandomVideos@programming.dev on 02 Sep 2024 18:38 collapse

How? I have been trying to switch people to linux for over a year and failing

Retro_unlimited@lemmy.world on 02 Sep 2024 19:53 next collapse

I gave them laptops, Linux mint pre-installed. I used to buy auction lots of broken laptops, so I got them for like $10 each. Threw in an SSD. It works as fast as a new machine for browsing the web and watching YouTube. I also pre-installed some common programs to get them started.

Excrubulent@slrpnk.net on 03 Sep 2024 03:18 collapse

Wait wait wait… where do you get these? That sounds amazing lol.

Retro_unlimited@lemmy.world on 03 Sep 2024 16:25 collapse

It was a thrift store auction website, when they first started there was almost no one bidding, so I won TONS of awesome things for cheap. Eventually more and more people joined and the auctions are not as easy to find deals.

Excrubulent@slrpnk.net on 03 Sep 2024 23:06 collapse

Ah dang, well, thanks anyway.

trolololol@lemmy.world on 02 Sep 2024 22:31 next collapse

Just give up on any productivity software. And any specialty software unrelated to programming. And games.

Source: programmer that uses Linux daily.

RandomVideos@programming.dev on 02 Sep 2024 22:55 next collapse

Still doesnt work, even when the person is only using a web browser

zaphodb2002@sh.itjust.works on 03 Sep 2024 01:09 next collapse

Gaming on Linux is pretty good nowadays. I’ve only run into one or two games I couldn’t get working. The vast majority of games work with Proton right out of the box

Teils13@lemmy.eco.br on 03 Sep 2024 20:43 collapse

Office on the Web can work for many people. I don’t know how many people actually use speciality softwares outside of Office, they must not be many. Games are pretty much click and play now, only some pesky anti-cheat that demands kernel access remains, but not every gamer plays those games.

Goodtoknow@lemmy.ca on 03 Sep 2024 23:17 collapse

Adobe suite is another big one. I know folks who have to use windows for Premier, Photoshop, illustrator ect. If Adobe ported their stuff to Linux, that would be a huge shift in the market

Teils13@lemmy.eco.br on 04 Sep 2024 02:18 collapse

Let’s hope Adobe continues to extract ever more money out of its clients, so that the libre alternatives can get a chance for chipping it away at the edges, since there are many sectors where they are more in parity than libreoffice with microsoft office.

Psythik@lemmy.world on 02 Sep 2024 23:04 collapse

My reason was being that I couldn’t get HDR to work properly in KDE 6 plasma. Also 90% of the features from my graphics card that I use on a daily basis are missing in Linux.

If I didn’t have cutting-edge hardware paired with an Nvidia GPU, I would have already switched by now. I build a new PC once every decade, so I’ll check back in about 3-5 years once my hardware has aged enough that people are writing proper drivers for it that goes beyond the bare-bones featureset.

SomeGuy69@lemmy.world on 02 Sep 2024 18:37 next collapse

But… But they got the good press of “at least you can uninstall”. I hope whoever said that starts a bigger shit storm now.

Omega_Jimes@lemmy.ca on 02 Sep 2024 20:59 next collapse

User choice is an accident. Got it.

TotalCasual@lemmy.world on 02 Sep 2024 21:59 next collapse

Linux is the future.

pyre@lemmy.world on 02 Sep 2024 22:50 next collapse

not until Linux bros find a way to appeal to newcomers. being curious about Linux is the worst user experience anyone will ever have about any tech related issue.

Lizardking13@lemmy.world on 03 Sep 2024 01:27 next collapse

I agree. However there are some gems. Got one good piece of advice from lemmy.world/u/BombOmOm and now I’m on the Linux train (at least on one laptop anyway).

buttfarts@lemy.lol on 03 Sep 2024 03:10 next collapse

You aren’t trying to suggest that experienced Linux users are a bunch of arrogant fart-sniffing a-holes who expressly enjoy gate-keeping inexperienced users by being as condescending and unhelpful as possible?

Excrubulent@slrpnk.net on 03 Sep 2024 03:16 next collapse

I tried talking about how absolutely horrendous their behaviour was recently, pointing out how completely unhinged and self-defeating it is, and someone actually literally said that this was a good thing because Linux is hard work and they should keep away people that aren’t experts.

And first of all, if that’s right it’s an admission that linux will never succeed, and secondly I agree that’s the effect but I think that’s bad actually.

I honestly think there must be at least some amount of psyops in the community poisoning the discourse for everyone.

buttfarts@lemy.lol on 03 Sep 2024 03:19 next collapse

Microsoft running psyops to keep the Linux community as toxic as possible

overload@sopuli.xyz on 03 Sep 2024 04:27 next collapse

Omg it really feels like that sometimes.

The youtubers who paint Linux as extremely unstable/not appropriate for gaming almost come across as sponsored by Microsoft. (Not to mention the overemphasis of the ubiquity of adobe suite users i.e. confirmation bias)

slowcakes@programming.dev on 03 Sep 2024 05:50 collapse

Mostly first Linux users will download Ubuntu, latest release, and I’ve not used a more bug ridden OS in my life. Everyday there was a new bug that made me have to hard reset my computer (mind you this is 24.0.4 noble). Display was grey after login, didn’t want to login, laptop screen doesn’t wake up, Wayland crashes and doesn’t start backup. And that is the bugs that forced me to hard reset my laptop, then we have a whole slew of other bugs.

I mean some new getting recommend Ubuntu will have a horrible experience, and most of them do

overload@sopuli.xyz on 03 Sep 2024 08:16 collapse

It almost seems like Linux Mint is the default recommend now which is better. I had a kind of buggy time with Pop OS, due to the amount of unsupported extensions you need to run to have some customisability.

OpenSUSE TW with KDE has been the best experience for me in the end.

slowcakes@programming.dev on 03 Sep 2024 15:51 collapse

I don’t think Linux caters to the casual crowd, maybe in the distant future, because it takes a lot of effort to create a good user experience, those resources are not available to distro makers.

In the PC world you have some different setups of devices, apple has it a bit easier they explicitly choose the hardware that they want to Support.

Also casual people have a hard time connecting a printer to their computer or fixing the wireless wifi.

I can’t imagine them fixing anything via the terminal. My SOs runs Manjaro and she is like that, but I usually fix her laptop when she has issued.

I love Linux for what it is, this toy for a developer that can automate and customize stuff relatively simple, with a large opinionated community.

I would instead rather focus on those thing, than seeing Linux trying to compete with windows/Mac.

overload@sopuli.xyz on 03 Sep 2024 16:41 next collapse

Oh for sure, I’m not a “This is the year of the Linux desktop” kind of person. The average person probably doesn’t care about privacy/software freedom enough, but I don’t think think it is at all insurmountable for a normal person to transition to the simpler distros if they begin to care about those things.

Teils13@lemmy.eco.br on 03 Sep 2024 20:39 collapse

I never experienced any of those problems with Linux Mint (except hardware incompatibility with Mint debian, which they explicit state it’s experimental and for enthusiasts). The user experience was sweet from the start, lots of preinstalled useful stuff, an AppStore that already is miles better than Microsoft Store, and my printer was recognized by the pc and printer program better than on my smartphone. Everything has a useful GUI knob to push or click, and i never use the terminal unless i want.

Agree with Manjaro being unstable, that’s why no one recommends it as beginner distro, and Pop OS is the distro of System 76 computers, so they also mainly aim for hard and soft wares integration inside they ecosystem (the apple of linux) and people should stop recommending it to beginners.

Linux Mint is the Magnum Opus of desktop linux for me, and we should recommend ONLY it for the time being, as default choice.

Excrubulent@slrpnk.net on 03 Sep 2024 05:26 collapse

Unironically I think it must happen to some extent, and that doesn’t mean every toxic person is an op. It wouldn’t take a lot of manpower to create a toxic environment. Just hassle the devs with annoying questions, suggestions and bad “contributions” until they’re sick of everyone’s shit and start to become toxic themselves. If they’re dealing with all the noise of bad actors, they get overzealous in moderating it, and it’s hard to tell the difference between a troll who’s trying to waste your time, and an honest newbie who doesn’t know what questions to ask or what information to share, so they all get blasted to some extent, and the devs lose any interest in catering to the newbies.

Edit: actually I remember asking a question on stackoverflow about PuTTY one time, it was answered and I moved on with my life. Then five fucking years later some dickhead shows up in the comments and says, “aw… putty… windows…” So I’m like, “Listen, I don’t care if you think I’m sad for using windows, I don’t use linux because it’s too much work” Then they start lecturing me about how linux is for experts and if I don’t know what I’m doing it’s not for me, and I’m like “Ok? Then leave me alone. This question is five years old, why are you here? Just to hassle a rando because they use windows?” Then a mod bumped the comments into a private chat and off the question page, then this person starts offering to “help” me learn Linux. I told them if I wanted help they’d be the last person I would ask, then blocked them, but the bad taste of that interaction has stayed with me for a long time and I think about it a lot whenever I want to put effort into switching myself over. Was that an op? Being a troll is easy, and it would’ve been maybe 20 minutes of work for whoever was doing it. Like, maybe that was just some kid who thought they were helping further the linux cause by going around windows-shaming people, but maybe not.

Sanguine@lemmy.world on 04 Sep 2024 00:46 collapse

I’ll counter your anectdote with my own. Every single Linux community member I have encountered on my journey to use this as a daily driver (arch BTW) has been incredibly helpful.

Excrubulent@slrpnk.net on 04 Sep 2024 03:28 collapse

Where? Is this paradise oasis of helpfulness on the internet? Or is it offline somewhere?

Clusterfck@lemmy.sdf.org on 03 Sep 2024 19:48 collapse

I just came from another post where the user said they would love to switch from Windows and just needed someone to explain how to do it with a list of features and programs they always use and asking what the Linux equivalent would be.

They made the mistake of saying they needed Outlook for work and there was a commenter that basically said that that person was never going to like Linux and they needed to stay far away from it because the user “painted themselves into a corner.” The commenter even took the time to call it “Micro$oft” lol

vithigar@lemmy.ca on 03 Sep 2024 20:16 collapse

Micro$oft

I dislike Microsoft and basically everything they’ve done with Windows post-7. Every machine I own that isn’t expressly for gaming is running Linux, and one of the two that are for gaming is also running Linux. When I build a new gaming tower to replace my current Windows one it will also run Linux, I just can’t be bothered to switch OSes mid-way.

And yet people using childish denigrating nicknames like this immediately makes me disinclined to engage with the conversation. I don’t understand how anyone expects to be taken seriously while throwing around schoolyard-grade name-calling like this.

Clusterfck@lemmy.sdf.org on 03 Sep 2024 20:47 collapse

Yeah, I love Linux and would use it on everything if I could, but the bottom line is, it’s cheaper to pay Microsoft for something that “just works” with the literal decades old software businesses have used without major issue than it would be to help fund development for a Linux based version.

It’s not fair, it’s not right, and you could probably make an argument that it’s not ethical, but the fact of the matter is, Windows does work. It’s got a whole boatload of quirks and every day I wonder why I hate myself so much that I chose a career that involves working on Windows so much, but it does do its job.

Plus, I know Canonical isn’t the most popular company either, but do people think them, Redhat, SUSE, and whatever other company isn’t out to make money?

Adderbox76@lemmy.ca on 03 Sep 2024 04:44 next collapse

Please don’t lump us all together.

phoneymouse@lemmy.world on 03 Sep 2024 05:08 next collapse

Need to pair it with a stable, easy to use distribution and some good marketing and hardware too. At the end of the day, most people don’t want to spend their weekends scouring forums to understand how to fix some OS issue with a series of terminal commands.

merc@sh.itjust.works on 03 Sep 2024 19:52 next collapse

I don’t think Linux Bros will ever find a way to appeal to women newcomers. I think it will take a company that can afford to hire UI/UX designers, marketing people, etc.

But, that’s hard because there’s a chicken / egg situation. Selling a Linux-based computer to the general public is going to be very difficult because of the network effects around Mac and Windows machines. Everyone else uses them and so there are people you can ask for help, there are software vendors who make stuff for the platform (also with nice UIs meant for normal people). I can only see someone spending money to make a mass-market friendly Linux in some limited circumstances.

One situation where a company might make a truly user-friendly Linux distribution is if a company like Valve decided to make a game console. They already have the Steam Deck which is doing really well, but nobody’s going to be doing their taxes on a Steam Deck (although they could). But, if they made a desktop-replacement game console that could both play games and also act as a normal home PC, they could afford to spend the money needed to sand the rough edges off the experience.

Another situation might be if a big country mandated Linux for something, either for government computers or for kids in schools. They’d probably have to have a support contract for that, and whoever was supporting those systems would want them to be as user-friendly as possible so they didn’t have to deal with as many support issues. So, if say Brazil mandated that all government employees switch to Linux, that could result in some company making a Linux desktop experience that was comparable to Windows.

njordomir@lemmy.world on 04 Sep 2024 02:27 collapse

Agree with you that gov and education should really be using open source software and hardware. Having said that, a normie friendly UI is what killed android and windows for me. Gnome does a good job being easy to use but I prefer KDE because I want configurability more than out of the box simplicity. I do agree with you though that having hardware paired with Linux software like System76 does would increase adoption. Just don’t take away my ability to configure things how I like them.

merc@sh.itjust.works on 04 Sep 2024 08:01 collapse

Most of the time the fact there’s a beginner-friendly option doesn’t mean that there aren’t also options for more advanced users. This is especially true with Linux.

On phones both Apple and Google lock things down so much that your options are limited. That’s mostly an issue with monopolies not with phones. Macs have a bit more freedom than phones by default, Windows has a bit more than that, then you can go back to Mac if you’re willing to hack around and run QT apps and so on. But, I can’t imagine a Linux distro that didn’t let you ditch a beginner-friendly UI for something more powerful.

I’m still hoping that the success of the Steam Deck will get the ball rolling. Steam Deck success might lead to more games that work really well under Linux. That means less of a reason to keep using Windows. More people using Linux might lead to more software being fully available for Linux, which might get more people to use it. I still think eventually you’re going to need non-hobbyists to come in and smooth a lot of the rough edges. But, stage 1 in that whole process is getting more people using Linux, and maybe that’s actually happening now.

(It also doesn’t hurt that Microsoft keeps shooting themselves in the foot with things like the Cloudstrike bug, and the Windows Recall snoopware failure. Long may that continue.)

njordomir@lemmy.world on 04 Sep 2024 13:44 collapse

From the sound of it, we’re well along the road to better Linux gaming. You have to pay attention to a few things like distro choice, setting up software like wine, and certain tweaks and adjustments, but my understanding is that you can play a lot of good games on GNU/Linux now! If Windows Recall can’t be disabled, I may be diving into Steam, Proton, etc. all over again as I ditch Windows for the last thing I use it for.

You save it for last, but I think your last point should not be overlooked. Linux’s recent successes have been augmented by Windows recent missteps and failures. Considering how bad those are, I think we should credit at least a portion of Linux’s use to Microsoft’s inadequacy in customization and/overreach in privacy.

Noedel@lemmy.world on 03 Sep 2024 23:54 next collapse

This is my life right now.

I put Linux on my HP laptop…

Speakers give weird sound Media keys don’t work Worst of all: ever since I updated the laptop somehow crashes my router? Like, I don’t even know how this is possible, but it’s happening.

I’m not an idiot but all the solutions to getting these seemingly basic things to work as intended are extremely contrived.

31337@sh.itjust.works on 04 Sep 2024 01:24 next collapse

The problem is that HP writes drivers and software for those things for Windows, but not for Linux, so Linux depends on random people to write software for those things for free (which often involves complex reverse-engineering). With Linux you need to make sure you use widely-used hardware that someone has already written support for (this is mostly applicable to laptops and peripherals, which often use custom non-standard hardware). There may be a way to fix your problems, but you’ll have to search forums or issue trackers for the solutions, and they’re probably pretty involved to get working correctly. The router crashing thing is probably just a coincidence though, or the laptop is using a feature that’s broken on your router.

Noedel@lemmy.world on 04 Sep 2024 02:10 collapse

Yes I completely understand that. But it also undermines the “give your older laptop a new life with Linux” narrative that’s out there at times. It’s actually not that easy. I’m happy running Linux but I wouldn’t put it on my moms old laptop…

reddit_sux@lemmy.world on 04 Sep 2024 11:00 next collapse

Everything depends on hardware.

I had the completely opposite experience of installing Ubuntu on HP laptop and giving it to my father. It connected without any problems to his work wifi while his friends brand new windows laptop couldn’t.

Hawk@lemmynsfw.com on 04 Sep 2024 11:22 collapse

Tbf, this is more HP failing to support their hardware than a failure in Linux to be more flexible and performant.

Hawk@lemmynsfw.com on 04 Sep 2024 11:21 collapse

Yeah as others have said, HP does not have a great reputation for laptops and stuff.

Grab a cheap ThinkPad, they usually work very well.

Hawk@lemmynsfw.com on 04 Sep 2024 11:20 collapse

I started on Linux as a kid and let me tell you, being curious about windows, welp that’s been horrific.

Curious in this case is a strong term, quite a few of my students are on Windows and that OS is a mess. I don’t care much for apple but at least MacBooks work.

pyre@lemmy.world on 04 Sep 2024 11:43 collapse

people who grew up before tv use windows and Mac computers now. i doubt they could operate a Linux, since i find it daunting even as somewhat of a power user. idk what kind of comparison you’re trying to make here but you’re absolutely wrong. also i don’t remember the last time my windows computer crashed, was infected or anything like that. i keep hearing this from Linux users and it feels like the last time they interacted with a windows computer was in the last millennium.

Hawk@lemmynsfw.com on 04 Sep 2024 12:37 collapse

Well, I can only offer my experience.

I teach programming and Mathematics full-time and I’ve been doing so for the last few years. I must use 20 different machines every semester.

Every single time, windows users cannot install python, they cannot install latex, SQL etc. And of course every single time the machine is riddled with garbage and just opening the start menu takes seconds. It’s probably more correlation than causation, but students on Linux always perform better In the course.

Mac Users certainly have it better but installing basic software (git, fish, ripgrep, neovim etc. ) is still quite challenging.

Much of the teaching staff have been using Linux for the past 5 to 20 years and probably have not relied on Windows since maybe 95/xp/2000 (my old supervisor started on Solaris apparently 🤷)

We sit there amazed that anybody would use this. It runs like shit, It’s riddled with ads, installing software is painful, most software isn’t packaged for it (exceptions being subscription-based software like Adobe), it’s a privacy nightmare and of course you have to pay for the bloody thing.

I guess my point is, maybe you find Linux more difficult than Windows because you’ve been using Windows for the past 20 years and so you’re approaching it from a different perspective.

From our perspective, we could go back to Windows and wouldn’t struggle with the technical side of things too much, but there is no doubt that it’s an inferior experience.

Llewellyn@lemm.ee on 03 Sep 2024 06:01 next collapse

always, it seems

Moah@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 03 Sep 2024 06:45 collapse

And has been for the last 30 years

quissberry@lemmy.cafe on 02 Sep 2024 23:59 next collapse

How this is good for Mircosoft though? It makes sense if they want to do it opt-out, but the only reason why I can think of they don’t want it to get removed at all to sell data

grahamja@reddthat.com on 03 Sep 2024 05:20 collapse

I am wildly speculating it is to collect all the workflows from remote workers in the hopes they can sell the data to other companies for future automation. Just another way of squeezing money out of users who already paid for the software just to have more information stolen from them.

[deleted] on 03 Sep 2024 06:24 next collapse

.

raynethackery@lemmy.world on 03 Sep 2024 22:12 next collapse

How will this work at an enterprise level? I can absolutely say that the company I work for cannot allow that kind of information to be harvested. Our clients would have a conniption. I also can’t see our cyber security insurance covering that.

absGeekNZ@lemmy.nz on 04 Sep 2024 00:44 next collapse

+1 for great use of “conniption”

Laborer3652@reddthat.com on 04 Sep 2024 02:33 collapse

Don’t worry, Microsoft will hide it in an obscure group policy so domain admins can disallow the “feature”. That ensures that mom and pop shops who can’t afford a full time security team still get targeted by their software.

SynopsisTantilize@lemm.ee on 04 Sep 2024 10:11 collapse

Man, even with updating the Adxm* or what ever the GP definitions are Windows 11 is already painfully under customizable. Like by a wide margin.

finitebanjo@lemmy.world on 04 Sep 2024 01:51 next collapse

How could that even happen? It was either never intended to ship outside of the User Experience Package alongside actual system apps or it was intended to be capable of being uninstalled during development.

Sounds like the employees did a little insubordination, good job employee we love you.

nefRrgar@lemmy.world on 04 Sep 2024 10:30 collapse

Well, needed “bug” that’s for sure