Spotify is finally launching support for lossless music streaming (techcrunch.com)
from ardi60@reddthat.com to technology@lemmy.world on 10 Sep 11:10
https://reddthat.com/post/49742856

#technology

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aeronmelon@lemmy.world on 10 Sep 11:19 next collapse

This is going to affect my monthly fee, isn’t it?

r00ty@kbin.life on 10 Sep 11:45 collapse

Incoming Spotify premium plus subscription tier. With lossless audio. And then shortly after some previously premium tier features to go plus. Then ads appear on the premium, I mean basic tier (priced at the old premium price).

modular950@lemmy.zip on 10 Sep 12:24 next collapse

Black Mirror’s Common People episode would like a word

r00ty@kbin.life on 10 Sep 12:35 collapse

Well, they were quite literally compiling all the worst behaviours of modern subscription services and applying it to the medical field. I guess the sad thing is that it could really happen one day.

I would say each of the things that they applied has happened on a service somewhere before (just perhaps not all on a single one). It's fiction uncomfortably close to reality.

modular950@lemmy.zip on 10 Sep 13:36 collapse

I absolutely agree. it was a sort of slap in the face, personally. I’ve been aware of the increasingly awful subscription model take-over of course, but seeing it presented that way and realizing how not-so-far-off that reality may be, finally put some fire behind it for me.

Eyekaytee@aussie.zone on 10 Sep 13:55 collapse

Incoming Spotify premium plus subscription tier

That was what they were planning to do, a new premium tier that would have lots of extras but then Apple released lossless audio as part of the standard base tier so Spotify gave up on it

To me I don’t really get it, I’ve had flac audio files in the past and I haven’t really found much difference in audio quality above 192k

Just to confirm there is no new tier for this

From today (September 10), Spotify Lossless will be rolling out to Premium users across over 50 regions including the US, UK and Australia. Spotify says the rollout is starting now and will continue though October. You’ll receive a notification alerting you when Lossless is available, but that’s not all.

Surprisingly, Spotify Lossless is free for Premium subscribers – a huge sigh of relief given that previous rumors suggested that lossless audio would come in the form of a paid add-on called ‘Music Pro’.

techradar.com/…/audiophiles-rejoice-spotify-lossl…

msage@programming.dev on 10 Sep 14:21 collapse

You have to listen to loud music on good headphones to hear any difference.

Also usually mid range is compressed OK, it’s the very highs that get distorted.

FireWire400@lemmy.world on 10 Sep 11:21 next collapse

Too little, too late.

Truscape@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 10 Sep 11:23 next collapse

Drink up me hearties yo ho!

FireWire400@lemmy.world on 10 Sep 12:07 collapse

Orinoco Flow by Enya starts playing

Quazatron@lemmy.world on 10 Sep 12:00 collapse

Exactly what I thought. I’ll keep my Tidal account, thank you very much.

Substance_P@lemmy.world on 10 Sep 11:31 next collapse

Well that’s one thing Apple did right, aside from a terrible algorithm. Spotify will be jacking up the prices in 3,2,1…

Codpiece@feddit.uk on 10 Sep 11:48 next collapse

Is this just music, or will conspiracy theorists podcasts and other right wingers be in high res too?

TheBat@lemmy.world on 10 Sep 11:59 next collapse

Listen to Bro Jogan’s heavy breathing in lossless audio.

victorz@lemmy.world on 10 Sep 12:06 collapse

BroSMR

Valmond@lemmy.world on 10 Sep 15:13 collapse

Only the ads (now compulsory on the 19.99€/month subscription).

ToiletFlushShowerScream@lemmy.world on 10 Sep 12:05 next collapse

Previously Spotify couldn’t develop hifi because they gave hundreds of millions ofl their customers money to that anti vax joe Rogan dick instead. Get bent and die Spotify.

acosmichippo@lemmy.world on 10 Sep 14:51 next collapse

he’s more than anti vax. he’s an anti-science conspiracy monger, one step short of alex jones.

Viper_NZ@lemmy.nz on 11 Sep 02:08 collapse

Canceled my sub when that happened and won’t be back.

ToiletFlushShowerScream@lemmy.world on 11 Sep 02:57 collapse

Fist bump

qwestjest78@lemmy.ca on 10 Sep 12:20 next collapse

Fuck you Spotify

sirico@feddit.uk on 10 Sep 12:20 next collapse

Prob should get on with sorting out the AI stealing people’s music and profiles

ComradeRachel@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 10 Sep 19:10 collapse

Pretty sure Spotify approves of it. They don’t care about artists they are there for profit.

OR3X@lemmy.world on 10 Sep 12:49 next collapse

Ah, feels good to know I just set up my Navidrome server and have been obtaining my entire music library for personal streaming.

Eyekaytee@aussie.zone on 10 Sep 14:09 collapse

It’s funny how many times people on Lemmy have accused Spotify of not paying artists fairly but for some reason there’s a large amount of ‘I pirate music and pay artists nothing’ that goes on around here and no one says a thing

MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz on 10 Sep 15:12 next collapse

Who mentioned piracy?

I get the files from bandcamp and quobuz. Unlike movies, you can still legally buy music, and get actual files.

Shellbeach@lemmy.world on 10 Sep 15:52 next collapse

I’d rather steal music than pay a corporation that exploits artists under the guise of legality. As an artist who’s being drained by these platforms, pirate my stuff and throw me a coffee, it’s the same money as the “legal” route, but at least it feels human, not dehumanizing or humiliating.

dmention7@midwest.social on 10 Sep 17:10 next collapse

These days I pirate the music, and if I like it I go back and buy the album directly from the band (when possible). If i really like it, I buy concert tix/merch. If it doesn’t tickle my fancy, then I don’t.

In either case, I don’t think the artist is too worried about the pennies lost from my Spotify plays.

Vanilla_PuddinFudge@infosec.pub on 11 Sep 09:03 next collapse

It’s funny how many times people on Lemmy have accused Spotify of not paying artists fairly but for some reason there’s a large amount of ‘I pirate music and pay artists nothing’ that goes on around here and no one says a thing

I accept this dark part of my soul as a bruise on my personality but I still find time to love myself anyway.

Like yeah, I pirate music, but I didn’t rape anyone today so, in the grand scheme of things…

OR3X@lemmy.world on 11 Sep 12:37 collapse

Maybe “obtaining” wasn’t the right word. I’ve been buying music from iTunes and Amazon.

[deleted] on 10 Sep 13:14 next collapse

.

desmosthenes@lemmy.world on 10 Sep 13:19 next collapse

spotify essentially killed grooveshark no thanks i’m still sour (I worked there)

corvalanlara@eviltoast.org on 10 Sep 13:47 next collapse

I loved Grooveshark! Why the service stopped? I always thought it was a license issue.

desmosthenes@lemmy.world on 10 Sep 16:15 collapse

sued into oblivion and they didn’t want to sell out the business; more like being forced into marriage with your rapist

Rebels_Droppin@lemmy.world on 10 Sep 13:59 collapse

Oh wow! I used to use grooveshark as a kid but my mom thought it was a piracy site and didn’t let me use it on her laptop. Haven’t thought about that site in a while, thanks for your work!

paraphrand@lemmy.world on 10 Sep 14:38 next collapse

It was at least in part a piracy site. Everything was uploaded by users. It was a piracy site in the same sense that early music content on YouTube was. It was mostly users uploading in the early years. This is why there was a massive lawsuit against YouTube back then. And why we got content ID, etc.

This also often meant the audio compression was random, and sometimes terrible. On grooveshark and YouTube. And on YouTube the native bitrates were terrible 2006-2010 or so.

Your mom was right. But she was probally wrong about it spreading malware.

desmosthenes@lemmy.world on 10 Sep 16:13 collapse

spot on

desmosthenes@lemmy.world on 10 Sep 16:13 collapse

it was literally the same exact business model as youtube. the big four labels were suing youtube at the same time for the same reason as grooveshark. then google bought youtube and they “settled” - grooveshark got sued into oblivion and took a dear friend from me (suicide)

independantiste@sh.itjust.works on 10 Sep 13:54 next collapse

why all this fuss about lossless audio? Spotify premium is literally indistinguishable from lossless audio for 99.9% of the population and songs (because not all songs will be lossless or are even mastered in a way that makes a difference). granted if…

  • you have the right hardware
  • you have the ear trained to hear compression
  • you picked a song that has audible compression artifacts however small they may be
  • you are in a quiet room
  • you are actively looking for compression artifacts

you may hear a difference. if you think otherwise, then do a lossy vs lossless blind test and be impressed that you actually cannot hear the difference most of the time (especially without actively looking for the artifacts)

blattrules@lemmy.world on 10 Sep 14:29 next collapse

I agree that the vast majority of people will not be able to distinguish one from another, but the company is the biggest streaming service and they’re behind their competitors in this aspect. They also have been promising this for years and not delivering.

zrst@lemmy.cif.su on 10 Sep 14:38 next collapse

You don’t need a trained ear for lossless audio to be different for lossy audio.

independantiste@sh.itjust.works on 10 Sep 16:13 collapse

do a blind test between ogg 320kbps which Spotify premium uses and FLAC and tell me your score then

my point is, if you’re not working on that audio, there is no audible difference between two

6nk06@sh.itjust.works on 10 Sep 18:57 next collapse

I compress everything with Opus 192kbp/s (way over the human ear). I get the quality of FLAC with the size of an MP4. Also Spotify sucks with their AI slop.

Vanilla_PuddinFudge@infosec.pub on 11 Sep 09:01 collapse

Depends on the song as well.

Are we comparing a rip of a 1990’s album to a remaster, or a vinyl rip?

I guess if you really want to find a baseline, pick a band that’s known for audio quality and pick an album with the best.

amelia@feddit.org on 10 Sep 14:41 next collapse

I don’t get it either. I’m pretty sure it’s just marketing bullshit and many people are falling for it. Same with bluetooth headphones and codecs. I wouldn’t be surprised if the difference between LDAC and AAC on an average bluetooth headset wouldn’t even be scientifically measurable.

sefra1@lemmy.zip on 10 Sep 15:06 next collapse

The fuss is that every time you transcode to a new format you accumulatively lose quality.

So for example if you have an 320kbps mp3, but then that takes too much space so you transcode it to 192 mp3, but then you discover the opus codec is more efficient so you transcode it again, but then you want to make a fan video of the same song, so your video player transcoded it again into video friendly aac.

The quality on your final video is going contain the faults of all the files upstream.

Meanwhile if you edit the video from a lossless source, it will only get encoded once.

So it doesn’t matter for streaming, but it matters if you want to download and convert to other formats.

Substance_P@lemmy.world on 10 Sep 15:49 collapse

This is a great point, currently I have tens of thousands of mp3’s that I wish I could somehow, impossibly upscale to a better codec, but those rare tracks I have in the low VBR mp3 range will never be revived.

killerscene@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 10 Sep 15:16 next collapse

everyone listening to audio on a modern phone will be using bluetooth anyway. lossless is jist a money grab.

even my local flac files are indistinguishable from standard quality streamed media over bluetooth

independantiste@sh.itjust.works on 10 Sep 17:33 collapse

don’t say it too loud the nerds on here will be angry at you (you’re already getting down voted for no reason)

Zdvarko@lemmy.world on 10 Sep 17:35 next collapse

Are you a musician? You can hear whats missing if you know what to listen for.

glorkon@lemmy.world on 10 Sep 17:46 collapse

Lossy audio compression algorithms work based on psychoacoustic effects. The average human ear will not detect all the “parts” in a lossless signal - there are things you can drop from the signal because:

  • Human ears are most sensitive around the frequency of human speech, but less at others
  • If there is a loud signal, a much more silent one very close will be masked if it occurs within a couple of milliseconds around the loud one
  • There are other more subtle aspects of the human ear you can use to detect signals we just won’t notice.

So in order to determine exactly which parts of an audio signal could be dropped because we don’t hear them anyway, they measured a couple of thousand people’s listening profiles.

And they used that “average human profile” to create their algorithm.

This, of course, has a consequence which most people, including you apparently, do not understand:

The better your personal “ear” matches the average psychoacoustic model used by lossy algorithms, the better the signal will sound to you.

In other words, older people, or people with certain deficiencies in their hearing capabilities, will need higher bitrates not to notice the difference. In the 90s, I used to be happy with 192 kbps CBR MP3. But now, being an old fuck, boy, can I hear the difference.

Ironically, I can detect the difference not because my ears are “trained” or “better”, I can detect it because my ears are worse than yours!

So the whole bottom line is this: While it may be true that you, personally, do not require lossless to enjoy music to the fullest, other people do. Claiming that lossless isn’t needed by 99.9% of the population is horseshit and only demonstrates that you have no clue about how lossy compression works in the first place.

Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works on 10 Sep 14:36 next collapse

Too late. Spotify sucks

ComradeRachel@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 10 Sep 19:09 next collapse

Lossless music doesn’t matter when it’s all AI generated crap.

Dyskolos@lemmy.zip on 11 Sep 11:55 collapse

Dunno what weird music you listen too but I have no ai slop in my library.

NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip on 11 Sep 14:02 next collapse

so far…

Dyskolos@lemmy.zip on 11 Sep 14:16 collapse

The Genres I listen to won’t work well with that 😁

Highlandcow@feddit.uk on 12 Sep 09:47 collapse

Alot of users I have have had the issue of being recommended AI slop, happy your algorithm hasn’t done that yet :)

Dyskolos@lemmy.zip on 12 Sep 14:35 collapse

There’s no algo in my library. I don’t stream 😉

Highlandcow@feddit.uk on 12 Sep 19:22 collapse

Wooooh let’s goo!

LoafedBurrito@lemmy.world on 10 Sep 20:49 next collapse

But not like people are going to notice any difference over a stream if it buffers even slightly.

Most people can’t even tell the difference between 192 and 320 kbps, they don’t care about lossless over stream. Also screw spotify.

twice_hatch@midwest.social on 10 Sep 23:50 next collapse

yeah golden ears are very rare. 320 kbps of any codec is fine for me.

flubba86@lemmy.world on 11 Sep 03:19 collapse

For tracks I’m familiar with and play often, I can usually tell the difference between 128kbps and 192kbps on an MP3. In very rare cases, with the right song and the right earphones, I can discern 192kpbs MP3 from 256kbps. But I definitely can’t tell a 256kbps MP3 from FLAC. The Wikipedia article on audio transparency says that MP3 becomes transparent on average around 240kbps.

I’ve recently started using the Opus codec. It is higher quality at lower bitrates than MP3. Opus is considered transparent on average at around 160-192kbps.

Personally, I’ve been re-encoding all my FLACs to 192kbps OPUS for storing on my smartphone where space is limited.

Dyskolos@lemmy.zip on 11 Sep 11:54 collapse

On a phone with a cheap DAC and probably even worse headphones (maybe even wireless), it surely doesn’t matter. For the car I transcoded my stuff to mp3 too. It doesn’t really matter. Except <192kbit 😁

But for listening with audiophile equipment at home it just won’t do for me.

Dyskolos@lemmy.zip on 11 Sep 11:51 collapse

I do care. I only buy FLACs. Sure, the i-dont-care-streamers are the majority, but even IF I would consider streaming I’d choose tidal over Spotify for that reason.

Hearing the difference is also affected by, obviously, the hardware used for playback+listening, the genre and also the recording.

And even if you don’t hear it, it won’t degrade when transcoding and you just get the best possible source for your moneyzs. Why settle for less.

yardratianSoma@lemmy.ca on 10 Sep 23:25 next collapse

with flacs on soulseek, who needs music subscriptions?

ZoteTheMighty@lemmy.zip on 11 Sep 01:17 next collapse

I was the biggest fan of Spotify as soon as they started up. I was one of the first people to get early access and was a huge supporter for years.

Buy your music, own your files, never subscribe for something you can buy instead. You’re not listening to 12 new albums a year, if you can subscribe, you can pay for the files that will be yours forever. The fact that Spotify has higher quality streaming doesn’t change anything.

lemmyknow@lemmy.today on 11 Sep 08:26 next collapse

You’re not listening to 12 new albums a year

Uhm…

Dyskolos@lemmy.zip on 11 Sep 11:46 next collapse

Even if. Still pretty cheap compared to streaming where you pay and never own, and it’s always a second away from being never accessible anymore for whatever reason.

lemmyknow@lemmy.today on 11 Sep 14:28 collapse

Well, I suppose downloads musn’t be that expensive. Vinyls got me like “darn, that thing pricey, innit?”, and they skip a lot, very fragile, lots of work. I like the vibe, æsthetic, and just… overall exprience, minus all the cleaning work. I’m pondering switching to CDs, honestly. Don’t look as cool as vinyls, don’t come in fancy colourful shine in the dark fancy special versions (unless I’m wrong), no big square with cover image to better see and enjoy. But you can back it into a computer, innit? Less fragile as well. And if I get the right device, I could listen to FM Radio as well. Idk

Dyskolos@lemmy.zip on 11 Sep 16:36 collapse

Price depends on bands. Some charge a lot, some charge “what you want to give (at least 1 moneyz though)”. The latter are the best. They don’t extort me so I pay full price willingly. Those that demand fullprice can lick my hairy…u know which 😁

Tbh, I grew up with vinyl, never liked them. But only because of convenience reasons. Also I’m so ocd that I get nervous after playing it once and knowing it somehow lost quality now due to mechanics. Since CD first came out I was hooked. Convenient, fast and I could quickly choose a song etc. Then came cd-changers… Pure convenience bliss…

But with my first HD and CDROM I simply digitized every CD I had to FLAC, and now they’re just…a backup stored safe and dry. Yes they lack in quality compared to a good vinyl. Totally. Even SACDs et al can’t really compete with analogue sound.

So long story short. Can’t beat vinyl for quality if you’re audiophile enough to hear the differences. Me, personally, I’d mostly choose (SA)CDs for ease of use. Also a ripped vinyl with high Bitrate and depth is pretty close to the original yet more comfy 😑

Anivia@feddit.org on 11 Sep 12:21 collapse

Yeah, I’m adding about 500 songs to my spotify library every year. If I paid 1€ for every single one it would be more than 10x the cost of the 3€ per month for a Spotify Family slot

lemmyknow@lemmy.today on 11 Sep 14:35 collapse

You add songs to your library? I have albums/EPs and some playlists, but that’s about it. Wouldn’t mind switching away from Spotify, though.

I probably would pay for albums, but not sure if I’d pay for singles. Pay to get only one song? I guess it’s a physical mentality. The latest single doesn’t come in vinyl format, after all. If only vinyl wasn’t as expensive and so fragile and requiring work to maintain

I do listen to a lot of music, though. And many artists as well. Which makes it difficult knowing for sure what I like. When I can listen to pretty much anything at any point in time anywhere, for no additional cost… got many things in my library, not sure if it all stands

Dyskolos@lemmy.zip on 11 Sep 11:45 next collapse

Aye. Bandcamp. Buy, download FLAC, put in mediamonkey, listen in cars or anywhere else. If need be, the app is also there for streaming I guess.

lepinkainen@lemmy.world on 11 Sep 13:17 collapse

I prefer Navidrome

Dyskolos@lemmy.zip on 11 Sep 14:18 collapse

Looks decent on a quick glance. But my library is vast and very much made around mediamonkey for 20 yrs. I need my precise auto-playlists 😉

Highlandcow@feddit.uk on 12 Sep 09:46 collapse

Spotify these days just acts like a great repository for pirating music with Spotify to MP3 websites, that’s all it does for me XD

TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world on 11 Sep 08:20 next collapse

The only reason I’m still on Spotify is that I can pay like £2.20 to be in someone’s family.

But the incessant push towards podcasts bugs me. When I’m driving, I shouldn’t have to scroll through 5+ pages to finally get to the music section. That shit is dangerous.

As soon as Spotify inevitably enforces that families have to be the same household, as so many other streaming services have done before it, I’m gone.

lemmyknow@lemmy.today on 11 Sep 08:25 next collapse

When I’m driving, I shouldn’t have to scroll through 5+ pages to finally get to the music section

Į’ve recently discovered a feature I remember never really using, Car Mode, is no longer

Squizzy@lemmy.world on 11 Sep 14:01 collapse

Absolutely this, they are also really shit at giving you what you like and want to snd you to the same hack wankers talking bro politics.

Same for audiobooks, it literally never has the ones I am actively reading as jump back in options, just suggestions of pop psychology manosphere shite. I sear if I see another CEO or Jordan Peterson book… let me fijish the Mark Hoppus book goddamnit.

Their androidauto implenetation is poor

NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip on 11 Sep 14:01 next collapse

That’s nice. I have been streaming lossless for myself for what, two decades now? I see no reason to pay spotify for anything.

null@lemmy.nullspace.lol on 11 Sep 14:38 next collapse

Oh cool, now they’ve finally caught up to my Navidrome server

slowbyrne@lemmy.zip on 11 Sep 15:16 next collapse

I think Spotify is missing the point. People who care about Hi-Fi, care about the music, which means they care about the artists, which means they likely care about the treatment of those artists.

In my eyes the only real value Spotify adds is their discovery features.

Highlandcow@feddit.uk on 12 Sep 09:45 collapse

Is that really a unique feature the discovery feature when you can access so many websites and services with similar features? What makes it stand out?

CriticalMiss@lemmy.world on 12 Sep 10:17 collapse

I’d even argue the contrary. Granted, I’m not subscribed to them so I only have the free tier available but I don’t think the discovery algorithm differs between the tiers. After a while the algorithm is basically stuck in a loop repeating the same tracks over and over. It’s what made me cancel right after the free trial ended. Way better to find new music on RED’s top 10 or last.fm

Highlandcow@feddit.uk on 12 Sep 10:29 collapse

Yeah there are loads of great ways to find music, I normally try to follow artists I’m interest in and research into artists in similar genres and stuff like that

Highlandcow@feddit.uk on 12 Sep 09:43 collapse

Lol I got a. MP3 player and I can literally just play anything I want and if I want I can make it lossless, I thought Spotify already had this and I’m kinda surprised it’s so behind the times.

I love my MP3 player, I make my own music so the fact I can just put said music on my MP3 player so easily is the best, also admittedly I have never used Spotify ever, never got the appeal when it’s hard to find music you like on there with there limited selection