MyFairJulia@lemmy.world
on 17 Aug 2024 08:57
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Microsoft still makes money off the OEM licenses AFAIK. The Linux community had a whole day about this back in the 90s.
goldteeth@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 17 Aug 2024 08:21
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Thank god, for a second there I thought they meant “cracking down on people dodging Windows 11 by intentionally disabling TPM,” like I’ve been doing. False alarm, carry on.
stealth_cookies@lemmy.ca
on 17 Aug 2024 16:14
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That is half the reason I have it disabled on my desktop. The other half being that the BIOS updates never fixed the fTPM stuttering issues for my computer (both using the 3700X and 5800X) so the computer is unusable with it turned on.
superkret@feddit.org
on 17 Aug 2024 08:54
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If you’re using Windows 11 and not having a great time with it, there are ways to make the experience more pleasant. We’ve covered 14 tweaks to make Windows 11 better and how to remove Windows 11’s junk, which is a good start toward making an OS you enjoy.
There’s another way…
IndiBrony@lemmy.world
on 17 Aug 2024 10:55
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Imagine having to remove a bunch of shit just so you can use your OS. smh
Luckily, there exists an OS which undermines extreme enshittification. Can’t remember the name, though …
01189998819991197253@infosec.pub
on 17 Aug 2024 13:14
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Can’t remember the name, though
It goes by many names…
A7thStone@lemmy.world
on 17 Aug 2024 13:57
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But you may call it Tim
01189998819991197253@infosec.pub
on 17 Aug 2024 17:54
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It is enchanting…
superkret@feddit.org
on 17 Aug 2024 13:57
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Haiku?
Plan9?
umbrella@lemmy.ml
on 17 Aug 2024 20:38
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TempleOS
Sparky@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 18 Aug 2024 05:56
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BeOS?
Metalemming@lemm.ee
on 17 Aug 2024 14:15
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Sorry for disappoint you. But, normies don’t know what is Linux about? hell even higher than average tech-savvy people know little bit Ubuntu as a Linux.
SirSamuel@lemmy.world
on 17 Aug 2024 11:14
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That would be me.
Tried Ubuntu 15 years ago, but couldn’t because Nvidia driver issues, and haven’t tried again
Look, dudes, I’m bootstrapping a small business while trying to manage ADHD. I can barely get two hours of admin work done in an eight hour day. I just need things to work. I’d love to walk away from Windows but I don’t have the mental bandwidth for that shit
And even if I did, my wife and I share a gaming computer/media center. There’s nothing like having her call me in the middle of a workday because my VPN is keeping her from logging into PBS so that she can watch Grantchester. Imagine the headaches if I installed a new OS.
Much like improving my physical fitness, I have the desire, but not the will
barryamelton@lemmy.ml
on 17 Aug 2024 11:33
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I just setup an old friend couple new computer with Windows. We lost a full day as the HP printer didn’t work (yet worked via Android and my linux laptop without installing absolutely anything), Outlook doesn’t save passwords (so we moved to Thunderbird), chrome is a mess (so we moved to Firefox + unlock origin), Microsoft excel is incredibly expensive and refused to open the only spreadsheet they needed (so me moved to libreoffice)…
A fucking nightmare. And everything worked fine with FOSS or on my laptop.
Just stay away from nvidia on Linux and you are golden.
Eldritch@lemmy.world
on 17 Aug 2024 11:47
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Most distros work fine with Nvidia these days. The ones that don’t are more the exception.
Cethin@lemmy.zip
on 17 Aug 2024 17:22
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I’m AMD, but I heard Nvidia is much better now, and open source drivers are coming soon I believe. That should make the GPU excuse another dead one, along with the gaming one. There’s not going to be many good excuses left.
SirSamuel@lemmy.world
on 18 Aug 2024 01:32
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Just stay away from nvidia on Linux and you are golden.
I’m sorry but this is the kind of condescending bullshit that pushes me away from Linux
I got a 3070TI for half off MSRP for open box in the middle of the crypto bubble, and I’m not buying another GPU until I absolutely have to.
You want more people to embrace Linux? Make it work on startup without jumping through a bunch of hoops, on the hardware we already own.
Your lived experience with Windows is yours, and I’m glad you have a system that works for you. I don’t have the time or mental energy to learn, not just a new OS, but also all of the bugs that go with it.
Look, I get it. I’m putting my apprentice in my old work van, and as I’m looking at the old heap I’m remembering all the little quirks it has that I’ve developed blind spots for. Blind spots they don’t have. Quirks that are actually problems. I know there are problems with windows that I ignore because I know how to work around them. I know the workarounds because I’ve been using Windows since 3.11. I didn’t have that experience with Linux, and neither does my wife. A woman who once nearly bricked our computer falling for an Indian call center scam.
When this rig bites the dust, I’ll probably build a Linux gaming box and just tell her to get used to the OS. For now, we’re using Windows
Also HP is shit and I’d gladly put any HP exec in the hospital if I met them
I honestly never had any problems with my nvidia cards on my Linux systems, and these are my daily drivers. I have 1 laptop that only has Windows and the other 6 computers here don’t. 3 of them are equipped with Nvidia GPUs and work without a single thing ever going wrong with them in that regard.
People who keep perpetuating these ideas that Nvidia = trouble don’t seem to understand that it’s scaring people from trying it out.
TheBananaKing@lemmy.world
on 17 Aug 2024 11:57
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I’m a sysadmin. We’re a Linux shop, I spend my life deep in the guts of Linux boxes, both server and desktop.
And for my daily-driver both at work and at home, I use windows.
The UI and overall UX are just better. The annoying bullshit I make a living knowing my way around, I don’t have to think about.
For actual development or backend services, of course you want a Linux box. Proper logging, proper tools, build shit, pipe it together, automate stuff and get down and technical when it breaks. Doing that on windows is absolutely hell.
But on windows, the volume control just works, I never have to delete lockfiles to get my browser to open, my desktop login doesn’t terminate if something in .profile returned nonzero, I can play every video game out there without having to fuck around, I can use native versions of real apps, I don’t have package-management dependency hell, all the pieces were designed to work with each other, and the baseline cognitive load needed to just use my computer is zero, which frees up my brain to focus on my actual work, or for playing games and fucking around on the internets.
raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world
on 18 Aug 2024 08:53
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A censor happy mod thinks they are the greatest… How pathetic :D
Cethin@lemmy.zip
on 17 Aug 2024 17:30
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For UI/UX, you get to choose your DE if you want. Find something you like. KDE is very Windows-like, but with the ability to customize it if there’s things you don’t like.
As for the rest of your issues, literally I have never had an issue with them. Gaming is also perfectly fine without fucking around now, with very few exceptions (like Valorant that wants a rootkit). Also, no all the pieces on Windows weren’t designed to work together. For example, each individual app has to check for its own updates when it runs, which is the worst time to update, and you have to go to a website to download an updater. A package manager just a handles it all for you, because they’re designed to work together unlike Windows.
I don’t know about your actual competency with Linux/computers-in-general. I don’t want to make assumptions, but you really don’t seem to know what you’re doing. If Windows has less cognitive load, then you’re doing something wrong. You should experiment with other options and find what works for you.
TheBananaKing@lemmy.world
on 18 Aug 2024 04:35
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I do know about window managers, thanks.
And that’s part of the problem: they all have their own slightly different infrastructure that relies on slightly intricate and not-quite-standard plumbing.
Dialogs not opening, or those weird invisible 30-second timeouts opening an application becasue dbus isn’t happy because one of the xorg init scripts messed some XDG path or set the wrong GTK_* option, or XAUTHORITY is pointing somewhere weird.
Whichever user is logged in locally should be allowed to talk to the device they plugged in via usb? Well that’s just an unreasonable thing to expect to happen by default, let me spend 20 minutes cooking up a udev script to chown it on creation.
Users managing to set their default terminal to some random script they were working on (seriously, how?). Or they initialised their xfce4 profile with the blank-toolbar option and now can’t work out how to launch anything.
Notification popups? Sure, the toolbar will let you add one, but nothing communicates with it by default lol.
also jesus christ kde.
And I’m talking about the built-in functionality of the desktop environment wrt package management, not separate applications.
Sure, it’s nice to be able to apt-get upgrade and just get everything all at once - when everything is happy with everything else.
But when you get conflicting dependencies and you have to take time out to track down what libpyzongo0-util is used for or what is going to break later on if you just purge it because people use cutesy package names that are worse than Ruby libraries in terms of communicating what they’re actually for, and do we need this thing for the core platform or it it form some random crap that was installed ad-hoc and used precisely once, it gets old.
Like I say you need this amount of flexibility and complexity for development and deployment and network services and all the rest. Anyone using Windows for much more than file-print-office-browser-gaming has more masochism in them than I can comprehend.
But for that same very minimal set of core use-cases, you don’t need (or, I’d argue, want) flexibility or complexity, you want it to be simple and robust with JOWTDI. And for everything else, you ssh into your linux box and do it there. I was amazed to discover that Windows Terminal is actually really nice; combine that with an X server and maybe a VNC client, and you’ve got the best of both worlds.
And yes, Windows has all kinds of annoying shit of its own - but that mostly pops up when you want to do interesting things on it, not when you just want to look at cat videos on the internet.
toddestan@lemm.ee
on 18 Aug 2024 06:31
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I personally find the my cognitive load with Linux is much lower now that I’ve switched over.
First of all, the Windows 11 UI is awful and ugly. The Windows 10 UI was never that great and only looks good as it ended up sandwiched between 8 and 11. I’d have to go to Windows 7 for something that’s decent. Admittedly the polish on a lot of Linux DEs and applications can leave a lot to be desired, but I have a choice between multiple DEs and many of those DEs are highly customizable. I’d have to go back to Windows 7 for something that’s better polished and works as good for me as XFCE does.
Then there’s being in control of my own computer. I control when it does its updates. My computer respects my settings and preferences and doesn’t randomly change or reset them. It doesn’t randomly install unwanted software on it’s own, or reinstall stuff I explicitly removed. It doesn’t place ads in my whisker menu or on my desktop or lock screen. There’s no telemetry being sent home to the mothership. With anything past Windows 8 I’ve never really felt like I’m in complete control and Microsoft can just do whatever the hell they want.
While there are the occasional issues as someone who is familiar with Linux it’s typically not too difficult to track it down and fix it. Though there are exceptions of course. At least if I have to edit some files in /etc they tend to stay that way as opposed to having to edit the registry with regedit.exe only to have Windows randomly undo what I did with the next update. And while PulseAudio is notorious for causing all sorts of havoc, it seems like it’s finally gotten to the point where it finally works and I haven’t had any issues with the volume control for a while now.
As for games it obviously matters what games you like to play, but the amount of tinkering I’ve had to do to play any game in my Stream library beyond enabling Proton so far is zero. Which has been a very pleasant surprise and honestly I’ve been pretty impressed with that.
Does it take longer? It almost always just works for me. I tell my package manager to install the package I want and then it’s taken care of, and updates are automatically managed. There’s no hunting around different websites for the installer and then going to the website to update every time the application launcher detects an update when it runs, which is the opposite of when I want to update it.
I don’t know what issues you’re facing, so I can’t comment on it directly. I’ve installed three different distributions withing the past 1.5 years, all which use different package mangers. Each one was faster than settings things up in Windows. The difference is my Windows install I installed a ton of things over time, most of which I wanted immediately when swapping. I don’t know how long it took in total for Windows, but I promise it was significantly longer.
Also the distro I’m using now, Garuda, has a tool to install a bunch of common applications that runs at start. You just tick the ones you want and it handles the rest. A lot of distros have something similar, which is really fast.
sic_semper_tyrannis@lemmy.today
on 17 Aug 2024 18:45
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Just gotta spread the word. I got two people to switch from Windows to Linux recently. When they heard about an alternative they got very interested and jumped on the opportunity. People want an alternative, but like you say they don’t know one exists, so we need to keep spreading the word of Linux.
PS. They both are enjoying the ad free experience and don’t have any big issues or problems with Linux. Just learning pains
MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml
on 17 Aug 2024 10:46
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but it seems that the Redmond giant has decided that enough is enough.
But why? People who take the effort have their reasons, find other ways.
Btw, Rufus patches the iso, works anyway.
Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world
on 17 Aug 2024 11:21
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It’s not only TPM. Older chips are missing some actual security features. AMD not patching their old CPUs of their firmware bug will also become a big problem in the long run.
conciselyverbose@sh.itjust.works
on 17 Aug 2024 12:11
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Not for Microsoft.
“Sorry, you’re running an unsupported, deliberately hacked version of our OS. We can’t help you.”
lurch@sh.itjust.works
on 17 Aug 2024 13:43
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I doubt it, because those bugs require to already have extensive access to the victim PC. Basically, they just expand the trouble on an already compromised system. It’s bad for sure, but at that point you’re already knee deep in shit and this just adds a few buckets on top.
Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world
on 17 Aug 2024 14:29
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The AMD bug requires the same access that any of serious previous exploits have given. You don’t need physical access. Any exploit that gives root means the payload can be the AMD firmware exploit which will make it permanently undetectable by anti virus and wiping the os won’t remove it.
For example the ssh exploit from years ago allowed root without even an account on the machine. Those affected detected they had been owned, wiped their machines and restored from backup. If something like that happens again, (thehackernews.com/…/new-openssh-vulnerability-cou…) you won’t be able to know you are owned.
MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml
on 17 Aug 2024 21:19
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Any exploit that gives root
Same in green. If the attacker has physical access or root, you have lost already.
Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world
on 17 Aug 2024 23:28
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This AMD firmware exploit is different. Yes if an exploit gets your computer you have lost. But it happens to thousands every day. A virus scan will detect it and an OS wipe will clean it.
This AMD exploit means the exploit lives inside the CPU firmware. It can’t ever be detected or removed by normal means because the CPU itself is compromised. (Unless you have the hardware to pull physical signals off your dram chips.)
In the past even normal OS patches would clear out any virus’s lingering in the PC population. Now you could be compromised and never know or be able to do anything about it.
lurch@sh.itjust.works
on 18 Aug 2024 06:11
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A virus scan will detect it and an OS wipe will clean it.
This only works before the malware has been executed and only if the malware scanner knows it. Often Antivirus can block access to the malware, so it can’t be executed.
If it has been executed, the PC needs to be shut down and all writable mediums connected wiped (including boot sectors and EFI), maybe even the BIOS reset, if it can be updated, to be 100% clean. If you can’t do this, you have to toss the PC in the trash.
If the PC is not shut down, the malware could still survive in RAM and re-install its files or download something else, eg. a remote shell or rootkit.
These processor security flaws just extend this to the CPU firmware, meaning you need to reset this too, after malware has been executed on the PC. If you just downloaded it and the antivirus blocked and deleted it, you’re still safe.
If it got executed and you or a technician can’t remove it from the CPU, you have to toss the PC in the trash, just like you already had to if you can’t reset a malware that flashed itself into an updatable BIOS, for example.
Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world
on 18 Aug 2024 13:25
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Offline virus scanners are standard. That’s always how you detect if you have been infected. Bios viruses are detected and removed by standard anti-virus software.
lurch@sh.itjust.works
on 18 Aug 2024 14:16
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BIOS and UEFI bootkits require special vendor tools and vendor signed firmware binaries to overwrite the SPI memory. Standard anti-virus software can not remove them, once they have been installed.
Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world
on 18 Aug 2024 19:57
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You are right, you patch your bios with a vendor program. However regular virus scanners will detect it and motherboard manufacturers provide bios flashing tools. But AMD has said they will not provide firmware tools for their old CPUs.
SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org
on 17 Aug 2024 11:13
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No problem, I’m just dodging windows.
RobotToaster@mander.xyz
on 17 Aug 2024 11:50
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“How dare people install our OS without a DRM clipper chip”
JackbyDev@programming.dev
on 17 Aug 2024 12:50
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“My OS is so secure!” Actually features of the hardware.
Brkdncr@lemmy.world
on 17 Aug 2024 12:15
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Article isn’t that great. The change is in beta, and it’s preventing the installer from accepting a switch that declares the OS to be a server product.
MS hasn’t said it’s going after any upgrades that are running out of spec hardware. This really sounds like they are just fixing an upgrade option.
peopleproblems@lemmy.world
on 17 Aug 2024 12:19
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Is secure boot still required? Yes?
Can’t force me to do shit Microsoft. Your own OS prevents it :)
JackbyDev@programming.dev
on 17 Aug 2024 12:48
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You’re misunderstanding, they’re stopping people like you and me who don’t have those.oj their PCs from upgrading via workarounds, not preventing us from a forced upgrade.
peopleproblems@lemmy.world
on 17 Aug 2024 20:25
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I had to go back and reread. I really shouldn’t comment when I’m still in bed.
stephen01king@lemmy.zip
on 18 Aug 2024 02:15
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Seems like you’re not the only one in this thread that fails to even read the title correctly.
JackbyDev@programming.dev
on 18 Aug 2024 05:09
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They probably read requirement as meaning being required to upgrade to 11.
And here I am using a modern Linux OS on a 15 year old desktop without any issues or nagging to log into an online account or to backup all my shit to some server, open to hackers, in windows world.
_sideffect@lemmy.world
on 17 Aug 2024 13:31
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Good! The less PC’s that run W11 the better
WILSOOON@programming.dev
on 17 Aug 2024 13:50
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As far as i know, windows 10 is still more functional, less of a resource hog (in windows terms), far FAR less telemetry and it just looks fucking nicer. It costs nothing to not upgrade, or you pay the tribute and join the linux brotherhood
vulgarcynic@sh.itjust.works
on 17 Aug 2024 20:55
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You’ve got around 9 months left on Win10 supportability. Then it will move in to LTS channels only. It was incredibly well adopted so we have to believe any open vulnerabilities will be targeted quickly and relentlessly. Sadly, we will be in a 11 only world by this time next year.
TheLadyAugust@lemmy.world
on 17 Aug 2024 21:54
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I’m fine with just the security updates until 2025. I’m sure I’ll eventually be able to move on to Linux by then.
M0oP0o@mander.xyz
on 18 Aug 2024 00:55
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Hell, I look forward to the only updates being security. Microsoft seems to think anyone likes having their OS change overnight.
vulgarcynic@sh.itjust.works
on 20 Aug 2024 00:17
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The barrier to entry is pretty low anymore for Linux. There’s some really helpful communities here as well. I’ve ran various versions as secondary OS’es since the early 00’s and can pretty confidentially say, its never been easier.
PopOS, Mint and even Ubuntu are super easy to get up and running and Proton makes gaming a breeze like never before.
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world
on 17 Aug 2024 13:52
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“By god we have got to stop people from using Windows!”
Uh. Yes. Do that.
2pt_perversion@lemmy.world
on 17 Aug 2024 14:04
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If it’s just an installer check then people could just use the old installer versions and update afterward right? Or are they planning on stopping updates for unsupported hardware that already installed windows 11?
Cethin@lemmy.zip
on 17 Aug 2024 17:09
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It’s MS. I wouldn’t be surprised if they bricked systems attempting to bypass the requirements.
My guess is one of the upcoming major updates will either refuse to install, or will try to install and fail, if you try that route.
Something like that happened with a 2006-era laptop I have with Windows 10. It ran Windows 10 fine for several years, but finally one of the big updates decided it no longer liked some of the Vista-era drivers I was using. The update would try to install, fail, and roll back. And since Windows doesn’t let you turn off or disable updates, a few days later it would try again only to fail in the exact same way.
DaddleDew@lemmy.world
on 17 Aug 2024 15:25
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So Microsoft wants to force everyone to ditch their perfectly good machines so they can make more money off of selling OEM licenses.
I’m just waiting for Europe to sue their greedy asses for planned obsolescence.
helenslunch@feddit.nl
on 17 Aug 2024 16:08
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I can’t tell you how many Apple devices I’ve had that have become unsupported over the years.
darkevilmac@lemmy.zip
on 17 Aug 2024 16:24
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Yeah as much as this sucks I honestly hope that Microsoft will actually take advantage of this and start moving legacy support into more specialized options.
A lot of the reason windows is so janky at times is because of the insane obsession they have with backwards compatibility.
stupidcasey@lemmy.world
on 17 Aug 2024 17:58
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Lol, worst take I have ever heard.
Windows has no purpose these days outside backwards compatibility.
Windows primarily sucks because of ads and forced updates, not jank.
Microsoft exclusively deals in antiquated spaghetti code, removing backwards compatibility won’t change that.
Microsoft has no interest in improving users experience they have invested entirely in squeezing in micro transactions not exactly a user first design philosophy.
MinFapper@startrek.website
on 17 Aug 2024 19:07
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False.
I work for Microsoft and I can assure you that any effort I make to increase code quality or reduce jank (or pretty much anything other than shoving more AI in our products) will not positively impact my bonus next year.
Alwaysnownevernotme@lemmy.world
on 17 Aug 2024 22:42
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What if you found another window to put ads in?
mrvictory1@lemmy.world
on 18 Aug 2024 09:11
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Are you working on Windows or another product? Also do you know why MS expects ROI for new Windows features ie. Amazon Appstore? Since Windows is a paid product (at least for OEMs) I would expect license income to sustain feature development.
Rai@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 17 Aug 2024 22:28
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Like what? I’m still using my 2011 MacBook Pro, and my phone is about six years old.
I can’t update my 2011 MBP to the latest version of OSX, but it still works fantastically for everyday stuff. Phone can update to the next version of iOS.
Yeah, that’s the problem, if your hardware can run the latest software, it should be able to update to the latest software
Rai@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 18 Aug 2024 00:58
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It’s THIRTEEN YEARS OLD! It still functions! If it stops functioning, I can put Linux on it!
It’s a first-gen Core i7… I don’t think the hardware would support the latest version that well, if at al.
helenslunch@feddit.nl
on 18 Aug 2024 02:07
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It’s THIRTEEN YEARS OLD!
Thirteen year old Windows computers still get updates (not to mention Linux).
It still functions!
Really? You don’t have any apps that refuse to run because the OS version is too old? My 10 year old iMac won’t run hardly anything…not even a browser.
Mind you, not because the hardware is broken or unsupported, or the software is supported, but because Apple simply refuses to allow it.
Rai@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 18 Aug 2024 02:47
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not even a browser
Try Firefox maybe? Safari and Firefox work perfectly on my 13 year old MacBook… I don’t know what’s wrong with your machine.
Edit: you can’t put Windows 11 on a 13 year old machine, that’s a straight-up lie. Mind you, not because the hardware is broken or unsupported, but because Microsoft simply refuses to allow it.
helenslunch@feddit.nl
on 18 Aug 2024 03:53
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you can’t put Windows 11 on a 13 year old machine
I didn’t say Windows 11. I said Windows. An up-to-date version of Windows. Nice try, though.
Rai@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 18 Aug 2024 05:21
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Why don’t your browsers work? Mine do.
Also I’m still getting security updates.
Edit: I don’t know why I’m entertaining you? The equivalent of the latest OSX is Windows 11 and you’re saying other shit?
I get the APPLE BAD shit but that’s so disingenuous.
I don’t think you’ve ever used Apple shit
helenslunch@feddit.nl
on 18 Aug 2024 05:33
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Why don’t your browsers work?
Because it runs an older OS that’s not supported and Apple doesn’t make anything else available. We’ve already been over this.
The equivalent of the latest OSX is Windows 11 and you’re saying other shit?
Doesn’t matter what the equivalent is. What matters is that the OS is completely usable. As in, Windows is, and Mac isn’t.
I get the APPLE BAD shit but that’s so disingenuous.
What’s disingenuous is comparing MacOS to Windows 11 on a 12 year old machine and pretending like W10 doesn’t exist.
I don’t think you’ve ever used Apple shit.
horse@feddit.org
on 18 Aug 2024 06:13
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Apple supports current macOS plus the previous two. If he’s on one of those ( which it sounds like) everything will work just fine.
helenslunch@feddit.nl
on 18 Aug 2024 06:24
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Apple supports current macOS
…huh? Of course they do. Who else would?
The problem is current MacOS isn’t supported on old hardware.
All you’ve said is that it’s fine because you can run Windows 10 on old hardware, but somehow being able to run a fully supported version of macOS isn’t good enough.
Rai@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 18 Aug 2024 18:51
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Why do my browsers work and yours don’t? What are you doing wrong?
helenslunch@feddit.nl
on 18 Aug 2024 20:39
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Sounds like a question for Apple. Assuming that I’m doing something wrong sounds like a bad faith question.
Lila_Uraraka@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 17 Aug 2024 16:27
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While I do agree that a lot of the PCs that are deemed not compatible is really stupid, there are people that are trying to use Windows 11 on devices that have no business running it, so this is partially to prevent their devices from getting infected with a virus or something
Cethin@lemmy.zip
on 17 Aug 2024 17:07
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Since when is having vulnerable hardware the business of the operating system? Sure, they’re allowed to do whatever they want, but it’s stupid. It’s your system. You should be able to try to run any software you want on it and the software shouldn’t care (unless it just literally can’t work, not a software check to make it not work).
I’m on Linux only though, so I may be biased. I think I own my computer and you may not agree with that.
DaddleDew@lemmy.world
on 17 Aug 2024 17:12
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I’ve lost count of how many times Microsoft, and many other big tech companies, hindered me from doing something I wanted to do on a device that I own for “security” reasons while it had absolutely nothing to do with security and everything to do with forcing their users to comply with their business model.
DRM chips have nothing to do with device security and everything to do with further controlling what you can and cannot do on your machine and making more money off of you.
You really shouldn’t believe the Corporate bad faith arguments used to justify anti-consumer practices.
Breadhax0r@lemmy.world
on 17 Aug 2024 19:12
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My job has radicalized me against windows, the settings are factory reset quite frequently due to updates or reimaging so I’m constantly resetting every single option just to get it back to a continent state (Who in their right mind thinks centered task bar icons is a good thing!?!?!)
uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 17 Aug 2024 18:49
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Malware such as that imbedded in Windows 11?
freeman@sh.itjust.works
on 17 Aug 2024 21:21
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Why won’t they get a virus or something on Windows 10 with that same hardware?
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 18 Aug 2024 13:36
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At the very least, they should be releasing some “Lite” version for older hardware or something.
It’s such a catch-22 with Linux, because you’re not going to see ads for it and most “normal” people don’t even know what it is (and that they have a viable alternative to Windows).
I don’t want ads for Linux, but I wish there was a way to elevate it into the general public consciousness so people are aware that they even have an option. AND ITS FREE.
barsquid@lemmy.world
on 17 Aug 2024 15:33
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Used market is about to have some bargains on very usable Linux machines.
kent_eh@lemmy.ca
on 17 Aug 2024 16:22
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Cool. I can upgrade some of my decade old machines on the cheap.
Hopefully that newer hardware is as stable as what I already have.
captainlezbian@lemmy.world
on 18 Aug 2024 00:21
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Nice I could use a laptop
octopus_ink@lemmy.ml
on 17 Aug 2024 18:06
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mrvictory1@lemmy.world
on 18 Aug 2024 09:07
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I can play it back on ff mobile
JustARegularNerd@lemmy.world
on 18 Aug 2024 09:28
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Well this was a good way to have me actually watch the video instead of skip over the link
vortexal@sopuli.xyz
on 17 Aug 2024 19:21
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The thing that I don’t understand is that, if this is such a big problem for Microsoft, why not just remove the system requirements or at least make an alternative version of Windows 11 that, even if it lacks certain features, doesn’t have those requirements?
Microsoft wants people to switch to Windows 11 but a majority stay with Windows 10 because their systems don’t have what’s required and they’re either not willing to use Linux or they can’t for what ever their reason is. Making Windows 11 more accessible to Windows 10 users would fix this problem for most users but they’re not for some reason. I know they’re Microsoft and Microsoft doesn’t care about their users but they’re seemingly willing to lose a significant portion of their users over something so insignificant, which is out of character for Microsoft.
mattgolsen@lemmy.ml
on 17 Aug 2024 23:54
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Real reason? Because product managers are idiots.
trolololol@lemmy.world
on 18 Aug 2024 04:44
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Greedy. Don’t attribute to incompetence what can be explained by greed.
myliltoehurts@lemm.ee
on 18 Aug 2024 00:01
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I’d guess it’s corporate circlejerk - they probably made deals with hardware manufacturers who are annoyed people are not replacing their perfectly functional systems with new ones. Windows gets pre-installed on new systems, and in exchange windows requires new things forcing people to upgrade their old systems - or be locked out of the most popular OS in the world.
lol sorry, i meant in the war sense… cracking down on “dodging” minimum requirements sounded so self-serious, like the government cracking down on draft dodgers or something.
YeetPics@mander.xyz
on 17 Aug 2024 23:46
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Honestly surprised something similar isn’t the cutting edge.
Wait a second… We have repealable “ownership” of digital media all over, my mistake!
viking@infosec.pub
on 18 Aug 2024 00:08
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Is there a way to make my PC seemingly not support Windows 11 so the annoying update nags go away? I’ll never use that shit OS.
darvit@lemmy.darvit.nl
on 18 Aug 2024 00:16
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You can set a registry value so that there is no upgrade to win 11, but I don’t know if it only works on enterprise.
Angry_Autist@lemmy.world
on 18 Aug 2024 04:02
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It’s barely helpful as it resets most regular updates, just disable TMP in bios.
LunchMoneyThief@links.hackliberty.org
on 18 Aug 2024 00:59
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Use a CPU ISA that Microsoft refuses to compile Windows for.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 18 Aug 2024 21:12
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Yup, that did the trick for me. I actually tried to upgrade to Windows 11 from Windows 10, and it refused to saying my HW wasn’t good enough (1st gen Ryzen), I boot into my Linux partition and the problem goes away, no nags to install Windows 11, and I still get to play all the same games I did on Windows 10.
Seems to be a pretty permanent solution so far. ;)
People who are technical enough to get around the system requirements to install windows 11 on a system that doesn’t meet the minimum requirements is most likely technical enough to upgrade their own computer.
toddestan@lemm.ee
on 18 Aug 2024 05:42
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Any new computer sold that has a copy of Windows preinstalled means Microsoft is getting a cut.
Halosheep@lemm.ee
on 18 Aug 2024 14:19
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Obviously, but we’re talking about a really, really small subset of users that probably would earn Microsoft less than a week of coffee in their corporate office.
Are they still doing that thing where OEMs pay licenses based on units sold regardless of OS? So even if you want Linux, they still have to pay for windows?
Honestly, I’m so sick of Microsoft’s bullshit, I just want to spread to love of Linux desktop. They’re more than free to downvote me in to oblivion. I’m pro-freedom over the software, open source software, and freedom to use the hardware we want to use. Plus I really love Manjaro and XFCE. KDE’s a good experience, but Windows 11 has advertisements in its start menu, and I’m not entirely sure what that ‘screenshot your desktop to feed an AI’ stuff was about but I’m not really down with that.
So, don’t thank me, but I would hope more people enjoy the different flavors of Linux desktop or give them a chance. The only way to not have Microsoft jam its software/cloud services/Teams down your throat is to get the HIPAA related Windows 11 OS which they make it a pain in the butt to grab.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 19 Aug 2024 12:41
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I was just making a silly joke about Manjaro breaking a lot…
Install Linux, be done with anything from Microsoft
Bakkoda@sh.itjust.works
on 18 Aug 2024 09:11
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Stop. We get it. I got a proxmox server, a truenas server, a half rack in the garage and everything is great. I’ve also got three brand-new in the box laptops for people who wouldnt know what to do with any Linux distro. They wanna use office and QuickBooks and that’s it.
Neither will you, but I’m not paying for my mistake
hydroxycotton@lemmy.world
on 18 Aug 2024 04:47
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I installed Linux mint on my laptop the other day because of various sustained long term annoyances with Windows. Despite some minor hiccups it only took about 30 minutes. It’s been such a great experience so far.
SynopsisTantilize@lemm.ee
on 18 Aug 2024 04:56
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I did the same. Windows 11 ads and one drive forced me out.
Spaniard@lemmy.world
on 18 Aug 2024 10:06
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Did the same on my desktop computer two weeks ago, everything else is already on Linux (servers and laptops).
I am fed up on Microsoft shenanigans with windows.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 18 Aug 2024 13:32
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I’ve been on EndeavourOS (basically Arch… btw…) for about a year and a half now, and I absolutely love it. I will never use Windows by choice again.
phoenixz@lemmy.ca
on 18 Aug 2024 06:20
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Install Linux, be done with anything from Microsoft
fatalicus@lemmy.world
on 18 Aug 2024 06:46
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Hey man, I think your keyboard is broken.
Every single reply you have made in this thread is just the exact same thing.
Zacryon@feddit.org
on 18 Aug 2024 09:24
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I’ve had 30 years of having to read one Microsoft bullshit article after another, and then watch people go like sheep and give more monies to Microsoft for their shit. I’m kinda done with that and if my replies are annoying to you, imagine me having to deal with that for 30 years already.
The simple truth is that Linux works, is more reliable and more usable than windows… frankly, always had been. The biggest “ooohhh difficult!” part about it is that a few things work slightly different. Takes 5 minutes to understand and you go. Most people use windows with all its bullshit to do some word stuff and browse the internet. Guess what? You can do that too on Linux. Since 20 years ago already, that’s how long I’ve been on Linux desktop.
Fuck Microsoft bullshit that always ALWAYS vuases problems
BrownianMotion@lemmy.world
on 18 Aug 2024 08:13
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If you must use Windows, download it legitimately from MS website.
Use RUFUS to burn the ISO image to a USB. Remove the restrictions you hate.
Dual boot a Linux variant, and move over apps at your leisure, until you are no longer Win OS dependent.
x00z@lemmy.world
on 18 Aug 2024 13:08
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I just moved to Linux and started fresh.
The big mental change was instead of searching “sony vegas on linux please” I just started searching for “video editing software Linux”, and take any possible limitations and live with them, as I know it’s only temporary until Linux catches on.
I mean for the big software boys to actually start caring about it.
dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works
on 18 Aug 2024 21:06
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I preferred to do Windows as a VM personally. Dual boot cost me a year before my Linux switch BC it was easier to boot Windows when I needed it. With VM I could do mostly Linux with maybe just vm to open a word doc if I needed it.
I only use Windows 11 because it came preinstalled on the latest laptop I bought. Otherwise I have been a Linux user for over 15 years and will switch back sooner or later. Microsoft is making their products the immoral choice and I do recommend boycotting them.
VitabytesDev@feddit.nl
on 18 Aug 2024 10:42
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Why though? This just means that Windows 11 will run on more devices? Why is so important for your device to have a TPM and Secure Boot enabled, and a supported processor? If I were Microsoft, I would put the requirements even lower or even removed them.
WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works
on 18 Aug 2024 16:39
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This is just my theory, but maybe they want to turn it all into android-levels of lockdown for even stricter DRM and such.
funchords@lemmy.sdf.org
on 18 Aug 2024 13:09
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Fighting with Windows 11 introduced me to Linux Mint, which works perfectly! I’m not an OS geek, so I really don’t care about the OS – it’s just the thing I deal with on the way to Firefox.
asexualchangeling@lemmy.ml
on 18 Aug 2024 13:57
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Not all that long ago I was told by someone who claimed to be an expert that a 3 year old middle of the road gaming laptop was to old to support win 10 and that’s why it was crashing all the time, Linux may not be perfect in every way but Windows is dying a slow, painful, e-waste generating death and Microsoft doesn’t seem to care, I’m glad I jumped ship when I did
ilinamorato@lemmy.world
on 18 Aug 2024 16:11
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I just installed Linux Mint on a 15-year-old desktop that has never been upgraded and was middle-of-the-road when I got it. It shipped with Windows 7, and I tried a couple of times to upgrade to 10 (it failed every time, either losing core hardware functionality, running so slowly as to be unusable, or just refusing to boot altogether). But it runs Linux like a dream. Seriously—it’s easily running the latest version of Mint better than it ran an 11-year-old service pack of Windows 7.
What’s even crazier is that I installed VirtualBox on it, and put Windows 10 on that, to use some work programs. And that runs Windows 10 a bit slowly, but otherwise more or less flawlessly!
That’s right: I’m having a better Windows experience in Linux than I’ve ever had on baremetal Windows on this box.
I can’t believe I didn’t do this…well, 15 years ago.
PM_Your_Nudes_Please@lemmy.world
on 18 Aug 2024 20:16
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I can’t believe I didn’t do this…well, 15 years ago.
For what it’s worth, your experience 15 years ago likely would have been very different. It’s only in the past few years that things like drivers for basic hardware have become widely available on Linux without a bunch of weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth. And even today, there are still certain drivers that often don’t like to play nice.
Ask anyone who had an nvidia GPU 15 years ago if they’d suggest switching to Linux. The answer would have been a resounding “fuck no, it won’t work with your GPU.”
ilinamorato@lemmy.world
on 18 Aug 2024 20:31
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That’s a good point. I didn’t think about that.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 18 Aug 2024 21:08
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Eh, “a few years” here is selling Linux a bit short. I switched about 15 years ago, and while driver issues were a thing, it was still a pretty solid experience. I had to fiddle with my sound card and I replaced my wifi card in my laptop, but other than that, everything else worked perfectly. That still occasionally happens today, but as of about 10 years ago, I honestly haven’t heard of many problems (esp. w/ sound, that seems largely solved, at least within a few months of HW release).
I don’t know what you’re talking about WRT GPUs. Bumblebee (graphics switch) was absolutely a thing back in the day for Nvidia GPUs on laptops, which kinda sucked but did work, and today there are better options. On desktops, I ran Nvidia because ATI’s drivers were more annoying at the time. Ubuntu would detect your hardware and ask you to install proprietary drivers for whichever card you had. I ended up getting a laptop w/o a dGPU, mostly because I didn’t want to deal with graphics switching, but that doesn’t mean it didn’t work, it was just a pain. For dedicated systems though, it was pretty simple, I was able to play Minecraft on the GPU that came with my motherboard (ATI?), and it ran the beta Minecraft build just fine, along with some other simple games.
In short, if you were on a desktop, pretty much everything would work just fine. If you were on a laptop, most things would work just fine, and the better your hardware, the fewer problems you’d have (i.e. my ThinkPad worked just fine ~10 years ago).
Playing games could be a bit more tricky, but for just using the machine, pretty much any hardware would work out of the box, even 15 years ago. It has only gotten better since then.
thearch@sh.itjust.works
on 18 Aug 2024 14:44
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wants people to use windows 11
make it difficult to use windows 11
people find ways to use windows 11 anyway (what you wanted in the first place)
punish them for using windows 11
???
_Sprite@lemmy.world
on 18 Aug 2024 16:36
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They’re run by fire ants
Capricorn_Geriatric@lemmy.world
on 18 Aug 2024 16:57
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Greed.
Sure, they want you to run Win11, but chances are you’re already running it, or at least Win10, so there’s not much to gain there.
By making higher requirements for Win11 than neccessary Microsoft makes a killing on Windows licences.
OEMs have to pay Microsoft for keys. And for MS to make money off of keys, OEMs need to make more PCs. And how does MS force/incentivise them to do that? By 80% of the Win10 PCs incompatible with Win11.
Oh, and also, now they get to push their Copilot key as well.
Microsoft has a vested interest in PC sales not stagnating any more than they do, and sometimes it takes an artificial push to make that a reality.
People that are running a windows modified to disable the hardware eligibility checks are probably also disabling/deleting the telemetry and activation checks.
Microsoft doesn’t want you to use windows 11, they want your money and data.
A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world
on 18 Aug 2024 21:33
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Which is why I dropped windows after 7 and went linux. Telemetry bullshit was odious in 10, but in 11 the spyware is basically one of the core functions/purposes.
Its why they pushed Windows 11 for free. Cause its not the product, you are.
Theres more money to be made in monetizing your daily using habits and selling them (and serving you tons of ads), than there is in making you pay 150-200 bucks for the new OS once.
And that new direction and drive radically alters how they develop the OS, and how you, the user, may interact with it. Which is why Windows is on the path of becoming a walled garden experience, with strict controls for “Security” (I.E. to keep you from doing anything that might impede their harvesting of data)
SynopsisTantilize@lemm.ee
on 18 Aug 2024 16:34
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This is just Vista all over again. Calm down people. Go to Linux or church if you’re scared.
not really because Vista does not have strong hardware requirements. But, this one have
Capricorn_Geriatric@lemmy.world
on 18 Aug 2024 16:49
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Today, sure.
2005 was a different story, one the opposite of this one.
While Vista didn’t have high specified requirements, it gobbled resources so updating from XP to Vista you’d have a noticable slowdown.
Win11 is the opposite of that story. While modern PC models (as in 5-year-old when Win11 first came out) can run Win11 fine, Microsoft forces requirements which aren’t needed.
Sure, while having a better TPM and newer processor is a good thing, making anything other than that ewaste (because windows runs 90+% of consumer PCs, with Apple being the majority of the 10%) definitely isn’t.
Pantsofmagic@lemmy.world
on 18 Aug 2024 18:06
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Vista was absolutely the slowest thing imaginable. They reduced the requirements as part of a marketing campaign for “Vista-ready” PCs, but PCs that ran it “well” were few and far between. Even after 7 came out if you went back to Vista it was noticeably slower.
The minimum specs seem to be an 800Mhz system with 512MB memory. No, Vista will not run good on that. Even Windows 7 will not like it.
Windows XP with SP3 will run on that, but even that will feel sluggish on 800Mhz.
That’s like early XP computers being released with 64 or 128 Megs of RAM. That may be the minimum specs but it’s not gonna be usable.
The difference is, that you could just continue using XP until Win7 was released or continue using Win7 until Win10 was released. Win10 will reach end of life next year and then the only supported Windows will be Windows 11. Vista or Win8 were never as forced as Win11 is now.
SynopsisTantilize@lemm.ee
on 18 Aug 2024 19:44
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The timeline for the lifecycle is 10 years. That’s ample time for an OS generation.
I used XP until Windows 8 was released. At least I got a cheap Windows 8 key from Microsoft back then. And upgraded to 8.1 and later to 10. So I got my money’s worth out of it.
Such a shame things will never be as good as they were again.
Draedron@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 18 Aug 2024 17:03
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Every 2nd microsoft OS is bad. Its normal for them.
XP good, vista bad, 7 good, 8 bad, 10 good, 11 bad.
TotalFat@lemmy.world
on 18 Aug 2024 17:11
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I generally agree, but I feel like Windows 8.1 was a vast improvement on 8. It was really more like Windows 9 with a Windows 8 theme.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 18 Aug 2024 20:54
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Sure, it really isn’t hard to be better than Windows 8… That doesn’t make Windows 8.1 good, it just means it’s less bad than Windows 8.
SpaceCadet@feddit.nl
on 18 Aug 2024 19:04
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No. They’re all bad, some are just worse than others. You’ve all just been stockholm syndromed into thinking better of the “less bad” ones.
DacoTaco@lemmy.world
on 18 Aug 2024 19:20
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Everything after w7, id agree. Windows 7 was actually legit. It ran fine on my amd athlon with 512MB ram. Ran dolphin back in the day too.
Now after that it was all shite
SpaceCadet@feddit.nl
on 18 Aug 2024 20:24
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No 7 sucked too. It just came off the back of Vista which was a real hot mess, so 7 appeared better.
The thing is, Microsoft has always had an adversarial (or abusive) relationship with its customers, forcing things on them that most of them don’t want. Like active desktop and IE integration in Windows 9x, “activation” and Fisher Price UI in XP, bloated (for the time) Aero UI that required a 3D capable GPU in Vista, UAC in Vista, forced automatic updates in 7, abandoning the start menu in favor of that awful tile UI in 8.x, telemetry you can’t disable in 10, a start menu that acts more like an app store and advertising place in 10, forced TPM and Microsoft accounts in 11 … the list is endless. And then when they back down on one thing, people are like: “Hurray, the czar heard us! Windows is actually good now!” … forgetting all the other things they have been forced to swallow in the past.
johannesvanderwhales@lemmy.world
on 19 Aug 2024 17:48
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Given how many older windows PCs ended up in botnets, forced automatic updates was probably a good thing.
dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works
on 18 Aug 2024 20:42
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W7 was fine. I cut the cord and went Linux before W10. It sucked for a year, and now I look at the trash they sell and everyone pays actual money for… And I laugh XD.
PsychedSy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 18 Aug 2024 19:48
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2000 good. XP gooder.
systemguy_64@lemmy.world
on 18 Aug 2024 20:27
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Actually 2K, ME, XP
2K December 1999, ME June 2000, XP October 2001
So the good bad good is preserved
PsychedSy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 18 Aug 2024 21:13
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Fuck the 9x kernel.
If we’re doing that we gotta go back to at least 95 if not 3.1. Are we counting 98se?
Nah. Fuck the 9x kernel.
ninekeysdown@lemmy.world
on 18 Aug 2024 20:06
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5 was terrible. No redeeming qualities whatsoever.
ninekeysdown@lemmy.world
on 19 Aug 2024 17:03
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Hey now! We got to know why god needs a starship! 😂
interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml
on 18 Aug 2024 20:32
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Yes that’s how they make you swallow the pill. Windows 12 will be “good”, in that it will not be as bad as W11. But it will still move the public into the slaughterhouse a bit more.
A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world
on 18 Aug 2024 21:21
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Uh, no.
95 bad, 98 bad, 98SE good only compared to 98, XP actually decent, Vista only really bad because of the change in how drivers were handled and there not being a robust library of them because of it, 7 THE GOD KING OF WINDOWS OSes…The Best, The Pinnacle. The Peak. The Top of the bell curve, 8 was shit, 10 was more shit than 8, 11 is just spyware.
johannesvanderwhales@lemmy.world
on 18 Aug 2024 21:49
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If you’re calling 95 bad i don’t think you spent a lot of time in 3.1. Resolving IRQ conflicts, configuring winsock.DLL, whatever the hell else. 95 had its issues, especially on the gaming side, but it was leaps and bounds better than what came before. Meanwhile 98SE was good enough to keep people, especially gamers, on it for a long time.
A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world
on 18 Aug 2024 21:57
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I did, but I didnt feel it was necessary to go into an excruciatingly detailed list of all OS’s from now to all the way back to LEO I in my OS criticism, just to avoid some pissy OS ping pong of “You thought that was bad? You obviously never used (insert older OS here)!”
TheDuckPrince@lemm.ee
on 18 Aug 2024 22:30
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Damn if it was ok i would install windows 7 now…for real
A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world
on 18 Aug 2024 23:00
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Seriously. Windows 7 was the first genuinely stable OS from Microsoft.
Everything before it required regular reformating. Granted, the frequency of the reformating less over time, but still required it. Like, Win95/98 required it like every 3 months, XP every 6 months to a year, just to avoid the bloat and slowing down and issues. Same with reboots, it didnt have to be rebooted every time you ran a program, either.
Windows 7? My longest run between formats was like 4-5 years iirc, and that was due to hardware changes, not due to any performance or maintenance need. Ans for reboots? Only time that computer ever got rebooted is when a windows update demanded it, or when the power went out. Neither of which was particularly frequent.
It was also slick, agile, easy to use. You didnt have to think about shit when you used windows 7, you just did shit.
I’m not a fanboy, despite what this sounds like, but 7 was legitimately the best Windows OS, hell it wouldnt take much twisting for me to say it was the best Desktop OS, period. It was the first time ever that I was able to use the computer, and not have to stop and think “Well, I just finished running a heavy game, I need to reboot before I do something else” I just stopped one heavy task, gave the background processes a second to finish up, then went right to another heavy task without issue or concern.
It also had a very good UI. But Windows always had the best UI, by comparison, in the market, cause they spent billions on developing it so that the most computer illiterate could pick it up and use it with 15 minutes of instruction.
A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world
on 18 Aug 2024 21:22
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I mean, this was 100% predictable.
And anyone who didnt think it would happen were willfully blind or just plain ignorant.
threaded - newest
M$ want to become even more unpopular with private users.
Many people don’t care about privacy
I think they meant private as in private person, not privacy
Well, they won’t be able to sell as many new computers if they let people keep using their old ones.
They aren’t big in selling hardware.
Except for laptops.
Even then (and with their Surface tablets) they’re not big for MS.
Somewhat ironically the Surface laptops are really great Linux machines.
Doesn’t matter, they still get money for Windows licences from OEMs.
I know, just clarifying that their main business isn’t selling hardware.
But that’s irrelevant. It’s still in their interest to get you to buy new PCs.
The comment was about selling new computers and not using old ones. They want to sell more software, they aren’t hardware focused.
And that comment was 100% correct. They want more computers sold, because more computers sold means more Windows licences sold.
You’re acting like PC hardware sales are unrelated to Windows license sales. They’re directly related.
Here’s the quote:
Their sales of hardware are insignificant.
Microsoft still makes money off the OEM licenses AFAIK. The Linux community had a whole day about this back in the 90s.
Thank god, for a second there I thought they meant “cracking down on people dodging Windows 11 by intentionally disabling TPM,” like I’ve been doing. False alarm, carry on.
That is half the reason I have it disabled on my desktop. The other half being that the BIOS updates never fixed the fTPM stuttering issues for my computer (both using the 3700X and 5800X) so the computer is unusable with it turned on.
There’s another way…
Imagine having to remove a bunch of shit just so you can use your OS. smh
Luckily, there exists an OS which undermines extreme enshittification. Can’t remember the name, though …
It goes by many names…
But you may call it Tim
It is enchanting…
Haiku?
Plan9?
TempleOS
BeOS?
TempleOs
Sadly, your hardware must support Spirit Boot to install this OS.
I have deciphered your message, and the answer is clear.
BSD?
You could install a windows 10 system to replace the windows 11 system!
Step one. Install Linux Mint.
More people will be redirect to Linux, cool.
Sorry for disappoint you. But, normies don’t know what is Linux about? hell even higher than average tech-savvy people know little bit Ubuntu as a Linux.
That would be me.
Tried Ubuntu 15 years ago, but couldn’t because Nvidia driver issues, and haven’t tried again
Look, dudes, I’m bootstrapping a small business while trying to manage ADHD. I can barely get two hours of admin work done in an eight hour day. I just need things to work. I’d love to walk away from Windows but I don’t have the mental bandwidth for that shit
And even if I did, my wife and I share a gaming computer/media center. There’s nothing like having her call me in the middle of a workday because my VPN is keeping her from logging into PBS so that she can watch Grantchester. Imagine the headaches if I installed a new OS.
Much like improving my physical fitness, I have the desire, but not the will
I just setup an old friend couple new computer with Windows. We lost a full day as the HP printer didn’t work (yet worked via Android and my linux laptop without installing absolutely anything), Outlook doesn’t save passwords (so we moved to Thunderbird), chrome is a mess (so we moved to Firefox + unlock origin), Microsoft excel is incredibly expensive and refused to open the only spreadsheet they needed (so me moved to libreoffice)…
A fucking nightmare. And everything worked fine with FOSS or on my laptop.
Just stay away from nvidia on Linux and you are golden.
Most distros work fine with Nvidia these days. The ones that don’t are more the exception.
I’m AMD, but I heard Nvidia is much better now, and open source drivers are coming soon I believe. That should make the GPU excuse another dead one, along with the gaming one. There’s not going to be many good excuses left.
I’m sorry but this is the kind of condescending bullshit that pushes me away from Linux
I got a 3070TI for half off MSRP for open box in the middle of the crypto bubble, and I’m not buying another GPU until I absolutely have to.
You want more people to embrace Linux? Make it work on startup without jumping through a bunch of hoops, on the hardware we already own.
Your lived experience with Windows is yours, and I’m glad you have a system that works for you. I don’t have the time or mental energy to learn, not just a new OS, but also all of the bugs that go with it.
Look, I get it. I’m putting my apprentice in my old work van, and as I’m looking at the old heap I’m remembering all the little quirks it has that I’ve developed blind spots for. Blind spots they don’t have. Quirks that are actually problems. I know there are problems with windows that I ignore because I know how to work around them. I know the workarounds because I’ve been using Windows since 3.11. I didn’t have that experience with Linux, and neither does my wife. A woman who once nearly bricked our computer falling for an Indian call center scam.
When this rig bites the dust, I’ll probably build a Linux gaming box and just tell her to get used to the OS. For now, we’re using Windows
Also HP is shit and I’d gladly put any HP exec in the hospital if I met them
I honestly never had any problems with my nvidia cards on my Linux systems, and these are my daily drivers. I have 1 laptop that only has Windows and the other 6 computers here don’t. 3 of them are equipped with Nvidia GPUs and work without a single thing ever going wrong with them in that regard.
People who keep perpetuating these ideas that Nvidia = trouble don’t seem to understand that it’s scaring people from trying it out.
I’m a sysadmin. We’re a Linux shop, I spend my life deep in the guts of Linux boxes, both server and desktop.
And for my daily-driver both at work and at home, I use windows.
The UI and overall UX are just better. The annoying bullshit I make a living knowing my way around, I don’t have to think about.
For actual development or backend services, of course you want a Linux box. Proper logging, proper tools, build shit, pipe it together, automate stuff and get down and technical when it breaks. Doing that on windows is absolutely hell.
But on windows, the volume control just works, I never have to delete lockfiles to get my browser to open, my desktop login doesn’t terminate if something in .profile returned nonzero, I can play every video game out there without having to fuck around, I can use native versions of real apps, I don’t have package-management dependency hell, all the pieces were designed to work with each other, and the baseline cognitive load needed to just use my computer is zero, which frees up my brain to focus on my actual work, or for playing games and fucking around on the internets.
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Preach! If this guy was my sysadmin at work, I’d fire him.
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A censor happy mod thinks they are the greatest… How pathetic :D
For UI/UX, you get to choose your DE if you want. Find something you like. KDE is very Windows-like, but with the ability to customize it if there’s things you don’t like.
As for the rest of your issues, literally I have never had an issue with them. Gaming is also perfectly fine without fucking around now, with very few exceptions (like Valorant that wants a rootkit). Also, no all the pieces on Windows weren’t designed to work together. For example, each individual app has to check for its own updates when it runs, which is the worst time to update, and you have to go to a website to download an updater. A package manager just a handles it all for you, because they’re designed to work together unlike Windows.
I don’t know about your actual competency with Linux/computers-in-general. I don’t want to make assumptions, but you really don’t seem to know what you’re doing. If Windows has less cognitive load, then you’re doing something wrong. You should experiment with other options and find what works for you.
I do know about window managers, thanks.
And that’s part of the problem: they all have their own slightly different infrastructure that relies on slightly intricate and not-quite-standard plumbing.
Dialogs not opening, or those weird invisible 30-second timeouts opening an application becasue dbus isn’t happy because one of the xorg init scripts messed some XDG path or set the wrong GTK_* option, or XAUTHORITY is pointing somewhere weird.
Whichever user is logged in locally should be allowed to talk to the device they plugged in via usb? Well that’s just an unreasonable thing to expect to happen by default, let me spend 20 minutes cooking up a udev script to chown it on creation.
Users managing to set their default terminal to some random script they were working on (seriously, how?). Or they initialised their xfce4 profile with the blank-toolbar option and now can’t work out how to launch anything.
Notification popups? Sure, the toolbar will let you add one, but nothing communicates with it by default lol.
also jesus christ kde.
And I’m talking about the built-in functionality of the desktop environment wrt package management, not separate applications.
Sure, it’s nice to be able to apt-get upgrade and just get everything all at once - when everything is happy with everything else.
But when you get conflicting dependencies and you have to take time out to track down what libpyzongo0-util is used for or what is going to break later on if you just purge it because people use cutesy package names that are worse than Ruby libraries in terms of communicating what they’re actually for, and do we need this thing for the core platform or it it form some random crap that was installed ad-hoc and used precisely once, it gets old.
Like I say you need this amount of flexibility and complexity for development and deployment and network services and all the rest. Anyone using Windows for much more than file-print-office-browser-gaming has more masochism in them than I can comprehend.
But for that same very minimal set of core use-cases, you don’t need (or, I’d argue, want) flexibility or complexity, you want it to be simple and robust with JOWTDI. And for everything else, you ssh into your linux box and do it there. I was amazed to discover that Windows Terminal is actually really nice; combine that with an X server and maybe a VNC client, and you’ve got the best of both worlds.
And yes, Windows has all kinds of annoying shit of its own - but that mostly pops up when you want to do interesting things on it, not when you just want to look at cat videos on the internet.
I personally find the my cognitive load with Linux is much lower now that I’ve switched over.
First of all, the Windows 11 UI is awful and ugly. The Windows 10 UI was never that great and only looks good as it ended up sandwiched between 8 and 11. I’d have to go to Windows 7 for something that’s decent. Admittedly the polish on a lot of Linux DEs and applications can leave a lot to be desired, but I have a choice between multiple DEs and many of those DEs are highly customizable. I’d have to go back to Windows 7 for something that’s better polished and works as good for me as XFCE does.
Then there’s being in control of my own computer. I control when it does its updates. My computer respects my settings and preferences and doesn’t randomly change or reset them. It doesn’t randomly install unwanted software on it’s own, or reinstall stuff I explicitly removed. It doesn’t place ads in my whisker menu or on my desktop or lock screen. There’s no telemetry being sent home to the mothership. With anything past Windows 8 I’ve never really felt like I’m in complete control and Microsoft can just do whatever the hell they want.
While there are the occasional issues as someone who is familiar with Linux it’s typically not too difficult to track it down and fix it. Though there are exceptions of course. At least if I have to edit some files in /etc they tend to stay that way as opposed to having to edit the registry with regedit.exe only to have Windows randomly undo what I did with the next update. And while PulseAudio is notorious for causing all sorts of havoc, it seems like it’s finally gotten to the point where it finally works and I haven’t had any issues with the volume control for a while now.
As for games it obviously matters what games you like to play, but the amount of tinkering I’ve had to do to play any game in my Stream library beyond enabling Proton so far is zero. Which has been a very pleasant surprise and honestly I’ve been pretty impressed with that.
Are you using debian woody or something? That list of issues is so weird.
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Does it take longer? It almost always just works for me. I tell my package manager to install the package I want and then it’s taken care of, and updates are automatically managed. There’s no hunting around different websites for the installer and then going to the website to update every time the application launcher detects an update when it runs, which is the opposite of when I want to update it.
I don’t know what issues you’re facing, so I can’t comment on it directly. I’ve installed three different distributions withing the past 1.5 years, all which use different package mangers. Each one was faster than settings things up in Windows. The difference is my Windows install I installed a ton of things over time, most of which I wanted immediately when swapping. I don’t know how long it took in total for Windows, but I promise it was significantly longer.
Also the distro I’m using now, Garuda, has a tool to install a bunch of common applications that runs at start. You just tick the ones you want and it handles the rest. A lot of distros have something similar, which is really fast.
Just gotta spread the word. I got two people to switch from Windows to Linux recently. When they heard about an alternative they got very interested and jumped on the opportunity. People want an alternative, but like you say they don’t know one exists, so we need to keep spreading the word of Linux.
PS. They both are enjoying the ad free experience and don’t have any big issues or problems with Linux. Just learning pains
But why? People who take the effort have their reasons, find other ways.
Btw, Rufus patches the iso, works anyway.
It’s not only TPM. Older chips are missing some actual security features. AMD not patching their old CPUs of their firmware bug will also become a big problem in the long run.
Not for Microsoft.
“Sorry, you’re running an unsupported, deliberately hacked version of our OS. We can’t help you.”
I doubt it, because those bugs require to already have extensive access to the victim PC. Basically, they just expand the trouble on an already compromised system. It’s bad for sure, but at that point you’re already knee deep in shit and this just adds a few buckets on top.
The AMD bug requires the same access that any of serious previous exploits have given. You don’t need physical access. Any exploit that gives root means the payload can be the AMD firmware exploit which will make it permanently undetectable by anti virus and wiping the os won’t remove it.
For example the ssh exploit from years ago allowed root without even an account on the machine. Those affected detected they had been owned, wiped their machines and restored from backup. If something like that happens again, (thehackernews.com/…/new-openssh-vulnerability-cou…) you won’t be able to know you are owned.
Same in green. If the attacker has physical access or root, you have lost already.
This AMD firmware exploit is different. Yes if an exploit gets your computer you have lost. But it happens to thousands every day. A virus scan will detect it and an OS wipe will clean it.
This AMD exploit means the exploit lives inside the CPU firmware. It can’t ever be detected or removed by normal means because the CPU itself is compromised. (Unless you have the hardware to pull physical signals off your dram chips.)
In the past even normal OS patches would clear out any virus’s lingering in the PC population. Now you could be compromised and never know or be able to do anything about it.
This only works before the malware has been executed and only if the malware scanner knows it. Often Antivirus can block access to the malware, so it can’t be executed.
If it has been executed, the PC needs to be shut down and all writable mediums connected wiped (including boot sectors and EFI), maybe even the BIOS reset, if it can be updated, to be 100% clean. If you can’t do this, you have to toss the PC in the trash.
If the PC is not shut down, the malware could still survive in RAM and re-install its files or download something else, eg. a remote shell or rootkit.
These processor security flaws just extend this to the CPU firmware, meaning you need to reset this too, after malware has been executed on the PC. If you just downloaded it and the antivirus blocked and deleted it, you’re still safe.
If it got executed and you or a technician can’t remove it from the CPU, you have to toss the PC in the trash, just like you already had to if you can’t reset a malware that flashed itself into an updatable BIOS, for example.
Offline virus scanners are standard. That’s always how you detect if you have been infected. Bios viruses are detected and removed by standard anti-virus software.
BIOS and UEFI bootkits require special vendor tools and vendor signed firmware binaries to overwrite the SPI memory. Standard anti-virus software can not remove them, once they have been installed.
You are right, you patch your bios with a vendor program. However regular virus scanners will detect it and motherboard manufacturers provide bios flashing tools. But AMD has said they will not provide firmware tools for their old CPUs.
They aren’t. The article is disingenuous.
No problem, I’m just dodging windows.
“How dare people install our OS without a DRM clipper chip”
“My OS is so secure!” Actually features of the hardware.
Article isn’t that great. The change is in beta, and it’s preventing the installer from accepting a switch that declares the OS to be a server product.
MS hasn’t said it’s going after any upgrades that are running out of spec hardware. This really sounds like they are just fixing an upgrade option.
Is secure boot still required? Yes?
Can’t force me to do shit Microsoft. Your own OS prevents it :)
You’re misunderstanding, they’re stopping people like you and me who don’t have those.oj their PCs from upgrading via workarounds, not preventing us from a forced upgrade.
I had to go back and reread. I really shouldn’t comment when I’m still in bed.
Seems like you’re not the only one in this thread that fails to even read the title correctly.
They probably read requirement as meaning being required to upgrade to 11.
And here I am using a modern Linux OS on a 15 year old desktop without any issues or nagging to log into an online account or to backup all my shit to some server, open to hackers, in windows world.
Good! The less PC’s that run W11 the better
As far as i know, windows 10 is still more functional, less of a resource hog (in windows terms), far FAR less telemetry and it just looks fucking nicer. It costs nothing to not upgrade, or you pay the tribute and join the linux brotherhood
You’ve got around 9 months left on Win10 supportability. Then it will move in to LTS channels only. It was incredibly well adopted so we have to believe any open vulnerabilities will be targeted quickly and relentlessly. Sadly, we will be in a 11 only world by this time next year.
I’m fine with just the security updates until 2025. I’m sure I’ll eventually be able to move on to Linux by then.
Hell, I look forward to the only updates being security. Microsoft seems to think anyone likes having their OS change overnight.
The barrier to entry is pretty low anymore for Linux. There’s some really helpful communities here as well. I’ve ran various versions as secondary OS’es since the early 00’s and can pretty confidentially say, its never been easier.
PopOS, Mint and even Ubuntu are super easy to get up and running and Proton makes gaming a breeze like never before.
“By god we have got to stop people from using Windows!”
Uh. Yes. Do that.
If it’s just an installer check then people could just use the old installer versions and update afterward right? Or are they planning on stopping updates for unsupported hardware that already installed windows 11?
It’s MS. I wouldn’t be surprised if they bricked systems attempting to bypass the requirements.
My guess is one of the upcoming major updates will either refuse to install, or will try to install and fail, if you try that route.
Something like that happened with a 2006-era laptop I have with Windows 10. It ran Windows 10 fine for several years, but finally one of the big updates decided it no longer liked some of the Vista-era drivers I was using. The update would try to install, fail, and roll back. And since Windows doesn’t let you turn off or disable updates, a few days later it would try again only to fail in the exact same way.
So Microsoft wants to force everyone to ditch their perfectly good machines so they can make more money off of selling OEM licenses.
I’m just waiting for Europe to sue their greedy asses for planned obsolescence.
I can’t tell you how many Apple devices I’ve had that have become unsupported over the years.
Yeah as much as this sucks I honestly hope that Microsoft will actually take advantage of this and start moving legacy support into more specialized options.
A lot of the reason windows is so janky at times is because of the insane obsession they have with backwards compatibility.
Lol, worst take I have ever heard.
Windows has no purpose these days outside backwards compatibility.
Windows primarily sucks because of ads and forced updates, not jank.
Microsoft exclusively deals in antiquated spaghetti code, removing backwards compatibility won’t change that.
Microsoft has no interest in improving users experience they have invested entirely in squeezing in micro transactions not exactly a user first design philosophy.
Enshittification
False.
I work for Microsoft and I can assure you that any effort I make to increase code quality or reduce jank (or pretty much anything other than shoving more AI in our products) will not positively impact my bonus next year.
What if you found another window to put ads in?
Are you working on Windows or another product? Also do you know why MS expects ROI for new Windows features ie. Amazon Appstore? Since Windows is a paid product (at least for OEMs) I would expect license income to sustain feature development.
Like what? I’m still using my 2011 MacBook Pro, and my phone is about six years old.
I can’t update my 2011 MBP to the latest version of OSX, but it still works fantastically for everyday stuff. Phone can update to the next version of iOS.
Yeah, that’s the problem, if your hardware can run the latest software, it should be able to update to the latest software
It’s THIRTEEN YEARS OLD! It still functions! If it stops functioning, I can put Linux on it!
It’s a first-gen Core i7… I don’t think the hardware would support the latest version that well, if at al.
Thirteen year old Windows computers still get updates (not to mention Linux).
Really? You don’t have any apps that refuse to run because the OS version is too old? My 10 year old iMac won’t run hardly anything…not even a browser.
Mind you, not because the hardware is broken or unsupported, or the software is supported, but because Apple simply refuses to allow it.
Try Firefox maybe? Safari and Firefox work perfectly on my 13 year old MacBook… I don’t know what’s wrong with your machine.
Edit: you can’t put Windows 11 on a 13 year old machine, that’s a straight-up lie. Mind you, not because the hardware is broken or unsupported, but because Microsoft simply refuses to allow it.
I didn’t say Windows 11. I said Windows. An up-to-date version of Windows. Nice try, though.
Why don’t your browsers work? Mine do.
Also I’m still getting security updates.
Edit: I don’t know why I’m entertaining you? The equivalent of the latest OSX is Windows 11 and you’re saying other shit?
I get the APPLE BAD shit but that’s so disingenuous.
I don’t think you’ve ever used Apple shit
Because it runs an older OS that’s not supported and Apple doesn’t make anything else available. We’ve already been over this.
Doesn’t matter what the equivalent is. What matters is that the OS is completely usable. As in, Windows is, and Mac isn’t.
What’s disingenuous is comparing MacOS to Windows 11 on a 12 year old machine and pretending like W10 doesn’t exist.
I don’t think you’ve ever used Apple shit.
Apple supports current macOS plus the previous two. If he’s on one of those ( which it sounds like) everything will work just fine.
…huh? Of course they do. Who else would?
The problem is current MacOS isn’t supported on old hardware.
The point was that Windows is the same.
We’re going backwards here. I’ve already explained how it’s not.
All you’ve said is that it’s fine because you can run Windows 10 on old hardware, but somehow being able to run a fully supported version of macOS isn’t good enough.
Why do my browsers work and yours don’t? What are you doing wrong?
Sounds like a question for Apple. Assuming that I’m doing something wrong sounds like a bad faith question.
While I do agree that a lot of the PCs that are deemed not compatible is really stupid, there are people that are trying to use Windows 11 on devices that have no business running it, so this is partially to prevent their devices from getting infected with a virus or something
Since when is having vulnerable hardware the business of the operating system? Sure, they’re allowed to do whatever they want, but it’s stupid. It’s your system. You should be able to try to run any software you want on it and the software shouldn’t care (unless it just literally can’t work, not a software check to make it not work).
I’m on Linux only though, so I may be biased. I think I own my computer and you may not agree with that.
I’ve lost count of how many times Microsoft, and many other big tech companies, hindered me from doing something I wanted to do on a device that I own for “security” reasons while it had absolutely nothing to do with security and everything to do with forcing their users to comply with their business model.
DRM chips have nothing to do with device security and everything to do with further controlling what you can and cannot do on your machine and making more money off of you.
You really shouldn’t believe the Corporate bad faith arguments used to justify anti-consumer practices.
My job has radicalized me against windows, the settings are factory reset quite frequently due to updates or reimaging so I’m constantly resetting every single option just to get it back to a continent state (Who in their right mind thinks centered task bar icons is a good thing!?!?!)
Malware such as that imbedded in Windows 11?
Why won’t they get a virus or something on Windows 10 with that same hardware?
At the very least, they should be releasing some “Lite” version for older hardware or something.
It’s such a catch-22 with Linux, because you’re not going to see ads for it and most “normal” people don’t even know what it is (and that they have a viable alternative to Windows).
I don’t want ads for Linux, but I wish there was a way to elevate it into the general public consciousness so people are aware that they even have an option. AND ITS FREE.
Used market is about to have some bargains on very usable Linux machines.
Cool. I can upgrade some of my decade old machines on the cheap.
Hopefully that newer hardware is as stable as what I already have.
Nice I could use a laptop
Remember folks, a tool that you control serves your interests. But if someone else controls it, they serve their own.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/c1c315bf-ac29-4e8e-ad06-1242581e6f39.png">
It’s hosted at the actual fsf website, not sure what to tell you. Sorry!
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/2c134820-79ae-4d7b-b36a-6890bbc07153.png">
I can play it back on ff mobile
Well this was a good way to have me actually watch the video instead of skip over the link
The thing that I don’t understand is that, if this is such a big problem for Microsoft, why not just remove the system requirements or at least make an alternative version of Windows 11 that, even if it lacks certain features, doesn’t have those requirements?
Microsoft wants people to switch to Windows 11 but a majority stay with Windows 10 because their systems don’t have what’s required and they’re either not willing to use Linux or they can’t for what ever their reason is. Making Windows 11 more accessible to Windows 10 users would fix this problem for most users but they’re not for some reason. I know they’re Microsoft and Microsoft doesn’t care about their users but they’re seemingly willing to lose a significant portion of their users over something so insignificant, which is out of character for Microsoft.
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Real reason? Because product managers are idiots.
Greedy. Don’t attribute to incompetence what can be explained by greed.
I’d guess it’s corporate circlejerk - they probably made deals with hardware manufacturers who are annoyed people are not replacing their perfectly functional systems with new ones. Windows gets pre-installed on new systems, and in exchange windows requires new things forcing people to upgrade their old systems - or be locked out of the most popular OS in the world.
This right here, the whole tpm requirement was most likely pushed from OEM’s wanting to sell new hardware.
Install Linux, be done with anything from Microsoft
Cant crack what you cant reach
I’m sorry is this the fucking draft
Are we going to war or is the author bad at writing?
lol sorry, i meant in the war sense… cracking down on “dodging” minimum requirements sounded so self-serious, like the government cracking down on draft dodgers or something.
Honestly surprised something similar isn’t the cutting edge.
Wait a second… We have repealable “ownership” of digital media all over, my mistake!
Is there a way to make my PC seemingly not support Windows 11 so the annoying update nags go away? I’ll never use that shit OS.
You can set a registry value so that there is no upgrade to win 11, but I don’t know if it only works on enterprise.
It’s barely helpful as it resets most regular updates, just disable TMP in bios.
Use a CPU ISA that Microsoft refuses to compile Windows for.
Itanium? It’s still supported well into 2025.
SPARC V?
Disable tpm in bios
A few of my boxes have 7th gen processors. I get the nags and then it comes up and says oh sorry you’re not eligible.
Install Linux, be done with anything from Microsoft
Yeah tell that to my company please.
Give him some contact info and he probably will :)
I do! :)
Yup, that did the trick for me. I actually tried to upgrade to Windows 11 from Windows 10, and it refused to saying my HW wasn’t good enough (1st gen Ryzen), I boot into my Linux partition and the problem goes away, no nags to install Windows 11, and I still get to play all the same games I did on Windows 10.
Seems to be a pretty permanent solution so far. ;)
Yay! Happy for you, another person who got the right idea.
Good luck come October of next year when Windows 10 goes EOL
Personally I’m just treating Windows 11 as a 2025 kind of problem…
Ever more reason to switch to Linux sooner than later. Otherwise, Windows 10 LTSC or Pro for Workstation.
I’m hoping for Windows 12. Just like I skipped from Win 7 straight to 10, 8 was completely unusable.
There’s a long term support version for 10 as well, until 2029. That would be the alternative, if whatever successor they choose is as bad or worse.
So what was the conspiracy theory around tpm requirements, bitlocker and copilot? Some new privacy nightmare?
Install Linux, be done with anything from Microsoft
microsoft missed their bottom line so they need more planned obscelance
How does that make any sense? Does Microsoft get a cut of sales for component upgrades?
This question makes no sense.
Most Windows users are not technical enough to do component upgrades. And yes they get money from new system sales.
People who are technical enough to get around the system requirements to install windows 11 on a system that doesn’t meet the minimum requirements is most likely technical enough to upgrade their own computer.
Any new computer sold that has a copy of Windows preinstalled means Microsoft is getting a cut.
Obviously, but we’re talking about a really, really small subset of users that probably would earn Microsoft less than a week of coffee in their corporate office.
Are they still doing that thing where OEMs pay licenses based on units sold regardless of OS? So even if you want Linux, they still have to pay for windows?
As far as I’m aware, they had to stop doing that some time ago.
people can’t upgrade.
people see their computer isn’t supported.
people buy a new computer.
oems license windows.
Here’s the best way you can dodge Windows 11 system requirements, and trust me… you’ll never look back. Infact, you can dodge Microsoft all together.
Thank me later. manjaro.org/products/download/x86
Are you sure they’ll be thanking you? ;)
Honestly, I’m so sick of Microsoft’s bullshit, I just want to spread to love of Linux desktop. They’re more than free to downvote me in to oblivion. I’m pro-freedom over the software, open source software, and freedom to use the hardware we want to use. Plus I really love Manjaro and XFCE. KDE’s a good experience, but Windows 11 has advertisements in its start menu, and I’m not entirely sure what that ‘screenshot your desktop to feed an AI’ stuff was about but I’m not really down with that.
So, don’t thank me, but I would hope more people enjoy the different flavors of Linux desktop or give them a chance. The only way to not have Microsoft jam its software/cloud services/Teams down your throat is to get the HIPAA related Windows 11 OS which they make it a pain in the butt to grab.
I was just making a silly joke about Manjaro breaking a lot…
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I’ve literally been trying to install windows 11 several times. I’ve made my PC support it, but the update just breaks and rolls back every time
When googling I see others with the same issue but no solution
Install Linux, be done with anything from Microsoft
Stop. We get it. I got a proxmox server, a truenas server, a half rack in the garage and everything is great. I’ve also got three brand-new in the box laptops for people who wouldnt know what to do with any Linux distro. They wanna use office and QuickBooks and that’s it.
I used office and QuickBooks oninux 10 years ago, easier and safer than on windows. What’s your point?
It’s ok. You aren’t gonna get it. Otherwise you already would have.
Neither will you, but I’m not paying for my mistake
I installed Linux mint on my laptop the other day because of various sustained long term annoyances with Windows. Despite some minor hiccups it only took about 30 minutes. It’s been such a great experience so far.
I did the same. Windows 11 ads and one drive forced me out.
Did the same on my desktop computer two weeks ago, everything else is already on Linux (servers and laptops).
I am fed up on Microsoft shenanigans with windows.
I’ve been on EndeavourOS (basically Arch… btw…) for about a year and a half now, and I absolutely love it. I will never use Windows by choice again.
Install Linux, be done with anything from Microsoft
Hey man, I think your keyboard is broken.
Every single reply you have made in this thread is just the exact same thing.
Leave him. He spreads the truth.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/9c155a4e-2a99-4711-b9b5-847ea6496fc5.png">
Hey thanks man! That’s awesome
I know. It’s noyy keyboard, it’s me.
I’ve had 30 years of having to read one Microsoft bullshit article after another, and then watch people go like sheep and give more monies to Microsoft for their shit. I’m kinda done with that and if my replies are annoying to you, imagine me having to deal with that for 30 years already.
The simple truth is that Linux works, is more reliable and more usable than windows… frankly, always had been. The biggest “ooohhh difficult!” part about it is that a few things work slightly different. Takes 5 minutes to understand and you go. Most people use windows with all its bullshit to do some word stuff and browse the internet. Guess what? You can do that too on Linux. Since 20 years ago already, that’s how long I’ve been on Linux desktop.
Fuck Microsoft bullshit that always ALWAYS vuases problems
If you must use Windows, download it legitimately from MS website. Use RUFUS to burn the ISO image to a USB. Remove the restrictions you hate.
Dual boot a Linux variant, and move over apps at your leisure, until you are no longer Win OS dependent.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/8c5dce6a-bb30-4e43-b25f-55d0c0325515.png">
I just moved to Linux and started fresh.
The big mental change was instead of searching “sony vegas on linux please” I just started searching for “video editing software Linux”, and take any possible limitations and live with them, as I know it’s only temporary until Linux catches on.
What exactly do you mean, Linux had been "catching on’ since decades, you may need to wait for a while…
I mean for the big software boys to actually start caring about it.
I preferred to do Windows as a VM personally. Dual boot cost me a year before my Linux switch BC it was easier to boot Windows when I needed it. With VM I could do mostly Linux with maybe just vm to open a word doc if I needed it.
I only use Windows 11 because it came preinstalled on the latest laptop I bought. Otherwise I have been a Linux user for over 15 years and will switch back sooner or later. Microsoft is making their products the immoral choice and I do recommend boycotting them.
Why though? This just means that Windows 11 will run on more devices? Why is so important for your device to have a TPM and Secure Boot enabled, and a supported processor? If I were Microsoft, I would put the requirements even lower or even removed them.
This is just my theory, but maybe they want to turn it all into android-levels of lockdown for even stricter DRM and such.
Fighting with Windows 11 introduced me to Linux Mint, which works perfectly! I’m not an OS geek, so I really don’t care about the OS – it’s just the thing I deal with on the way to Firefox.
Not all that long ago I was told by someone who claimed to be an expert that a 3 year old middle of the road gaming laptop was to old to support win 10 and that’s why it was crashing all the time, Linux may not be perfect in every way but Windows is dying a slow, painful, e-waste generating death and Microsoft doesn’t seem to care, I’m glad I jumped ship when I did
I just installed Linux Mint on a 15-year-old desktop that has never been upgraded and was middle-of-the-road when I got it. It shipped with Windows 7, and I tried a couple of times to upgrade to 10 (it failed every time, either losing core hardware functionality, running so slowly as to be unusable, or just refusing to boot altogether). But it runs Linux like a dream. Seriously—it’s easily running the latest version of Mint better than it ran an 11-year-old service pack of Windows 7.
What’s even crazier is that I installed VirtualBox on it, and put Windows 10 on that, to use some work programs. And that runs Windows 10 a bit slowly, but otherwise more or less flawlessly!
That’s right: I’m having a better Windows experience in Linux than I’ve ever had on baremetal Windows on this box.
I can’t believe I didn’t do this…well, 15 years ago.
For what it’s worth, your experience 15 years ago likely would have been very different. It’s only in the past few years that things like drivers for basic hardware have become widely available on Linux without a bunch of weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth. And even today, there are still certain drivers that often don’t like to play nice.
Ask anyone who had an nvidia GPU 15 years ago if they’d suggest switching to Linux. The answer would have been a resounding “fuck no, it won’t work with your GPU.”
That’s a good point. I didn’t think about that.
Eh, “a few years” here is selling Linux a bit short. I switched about 15 years ago, and while driver issues were a thing, it was still a pretty solid experience. I had to fiddle with my sound card and I replaced my wifi card in my laptop, but other than that, everything else worked perfectly. That still occasionally happens today, but as of about 10 years ago, I honestly haven’t heard of many problems (esp. w/ sound, that seems largely solved, at least within a few months of HW release).
I don’t know what you’re talking about WRT GPUs. Bumblebee (graphics switch) was absolutely a thing back in the day for Nvidia GPUs on laptops, which kinda sucked but did work, and today there are better options. On desktops, I ran Nvidia because ATI’s drivers were more annoying at the time. Ubuntu would detect your hardware and ask you to install proprietary drivers for whichever card you had. I ended up getting a laptop w/o a dGPU, mostly because I didn’t want to deal with graphics switching, but that doesn’t mean it didn’t work, it was just a pain. For dedicated systems though, it was pretty simple, I was able to play Minecraft on the GPU that came with my motherboard (ATI?), and it ran the beta Minecraft build just fine, along with some other simple games.
In short, if you were on a desktop, pretty much everything would work just fine. If you were on a laptop, most things would work just fine, and the better your hardware, the fewer problems you’d have (i.e. my ThinkPad worked just fine ~10 years ago).
Playing games could be a bit more tricky, but for just using the machine, pretty much any hardware would work out of the box, even 15 years ago. It has only gotten better since then.
???
They’re run by fire ants
Greed.
Sure, they want you to run Win11, but chances are you’re already running it, or at least Win10, so there’s not much to gain there.
By making higher requirements for Win11 than neccessary Microsoft makes a killing on Windows licences.
OEMs have to pay Microsoft for keys. And for MS to make money off of keys, OEMs need to make more PCs. And how does MS force/incentivise them to do that? By 80% of the Win10 PCs incompatible with Win11.
Oh, and also, now they get to push their Copilot key as well.
Microsoft has a vested interest in PC sales not stagnating any more than they do, and sometimes it takes an artificial push to make that a reality.
People that are running a windows modified to disable the hardware eligibility checks are probably also disabling/deleting the telemetry and activation checks.
Microsoft doesn’t want you to use windows 11, they want your money and data.
Which is why I dropped windows after 7 and went linux. Telemetry bullshit was odious in 10, but in 11 the spyware is basically one of the core functions/purposes.
Its why they pushed Windows 11 for free. Cause its not the product, you are.
Theres more money to be made in monetizing your daily using habits and selling them (and serving you tons of ads), than there is in making you pay 150-200 bucks for the new OS once.
And that new direction and drive radically alters how they develop the OS, and how you, the user, may interact with it. Which is why Windows is on the path of becoming a walled garden experience, with strict controls for “Security” (I.E. to keep you from doing anything that might impede their harvesting of data)
This is just Vista all over again. Calm down people. Go to Linux or church if you’re scared.
not really because Vista does not have strong hardware requirements. But, this one have
Today, sure.
2005 was a different story, one the opposite of this one.
While Vista didn’t have high specified requirements, it gobbled resources so updating from XP to Vista you’d have a noticable slowdown.
Win11 is the opposite of that story. While modern PC models (as in 5-year-old when Win11 first came out) can run Win11 fine, Microsoft forces requirements which aren’t needed.
Sure, while having a better TPM and newer processor is a good thing, making anything other than that ewaste (because windows runs 90+% of consumer PCs, with Apple being the majority of the 10%) definitely isn’t.
Vista was absolutely the slowest thing imaginable. They reduced the requirements as part of a marketing campaign for “Vista-ready” PCs, but PCs that ran it “well” were few and far between. Even after 7 came out if you went back to Vista it was noticeably slower.
I decided to look up what that term meant.
The minimum specs seem to be an 800Mhz system with 512MB memory. No, Vista will not run good on that. Even Windows 7 will not like it. Windows XP with SP3 will run on that, but even that will feel sluggish on 800Mhz.
That’s like early XP computers being released with 64 or 128 Megs of RAM. That may be the minimum specs but it’s not gonna be usable.
The difference is, that you could just continue using XP until Win7 was released or continue using Win7 until Win10 was released. Win10 will reach end of life next year and then the only supported Windows will be Windows 11. Vista or Win8 were never as forced as Win11 is now.
The timeline for the lifecycle is 10 years. That’s ample time for an OS generation.
I used XP until Windows 8 was released. At least I got a cheap Windows 8 key from Microsoft back then. And upgraded to 8.1 and later to 10. So I got my money’s worth out of it.
Such a shame things will never be as good as they were again.
Every 2nd microsoft OS is bad. Its normal for them. XP good, vista bad, 7 good, 8 bad, 10 good, 11 bad.
I generally agree, but I feel like Windows 8.1 was a vast improvement on 8. It was really more like Windows 9 with a Windows 8 theme.
Sure, it really isn’t hard to be better than Windows 8… That doesn’t make Windows 8.1 good, it just means it’s less bad than Windows 8.
No. They’re all bad, some are just worse than others. You’ve all just been stockholm syndromed into thinking better of the “less bad” ones.
Everything after w7, id agree. Windows 7 was actually legit. It ran fine on my amd athlon with 512MB ram. Ran dolphin back in the day too. Now after that it was all shite
No 7 sucked too. It just came off the back of Vista which was a real hot mess, so 7 appeared better.
The thing is, Microsoft has always had an adversarial (or abusive) relationship with its customers, forcing things on them that most of them don’t want. Like active desktop and IE integration in Windows 9x, “activation” and Fisher Price UI in XP, bloated (for the time) Aero UI that required a 3D capable GPU in Vista, UAC in Vista, forced automatic updates in 7, abandoning the start menu in favor of that awful tile UI in 8.x, telemetry you can’t disable in 10, a start menu that acts more like an app store and advertising place in 10, forced TPM and Microsoft accounts in 11 … the list is endless. And then when they back down on one thing, people are like: “Hurray, the czar heard us! Windows is actually good now!” … forgetting all the other things they have been forced to swallow in the past.
Given how many older windows PCs ended up in botnets, forced automatic updates was probably a good thing.
W7 was fine. I cut the cord and went Linux before W10. It sucked for a year, and now I look at the trash they sell and everyone pays actual money for… And I laugh XD.
2000 good. XP gooder.
Actually 2K, ME, XP
2K December 1999, ME June 2000, XP October 2001
So the good bad good is preserved
Fuck the 9x kernel.
If we’re doing that we gotta go back to at least 95 if not 3.1. Are we counting 98se?
Nah. Fuck the 9x kernel.
Like Star Trek movies 😂
Actually all of the TOS films are great.
5 was terrible. No redeeming qualities whatsoever.
Hey now! We got to know why god needs a starship! 😂
Yes that’s how they make you swallow the pill. Windows 12 will be “good”, in that it will not be as bad as W11. But it will still move the public into the slaughterhouse a bit more.
Uh, no.
95 bad, 98 bad, 98SE good only compared to 98, XP actually decent, Vista only really bad because of the change in how drivers were handled and there not being a robust library of them because of it, 7 THE GOD KING OF WINDOWS OSes…The Best, The Pinnacle. The Peak. The Top of the bell curve, 8 was shit, 10 was more shit than 8, 11 is just spyware.
If you’re calling 95 bad i don’t think you spent a lot of time in 3.1. Resolving IRQ conflicts, configuring winsock.DLL, whatever the hell else. 95 had its issues, especially on the gaming side, but it was leaps and bounds better than what came before. Meanwhile 98SE was good enough to keep people, especially gamers, on it for a long time.
I did, but I didnt feel it was necessary to go into an excruciatingly detailed list of all OS’s from now to all the way back to LEO I in my OS criticism, just to avoid some pissy OS ping pong of “You thought that was bad? You obviously never used (insert older OS here)!”
Damn if it was ok i would install windows 7 now…for real
Seriously. Windows 7 was the first genuinely stable OS from Microsoft.
Everything before it required regular reformating. Granted, the frequency of the reformating less over time, but still required it. Like, Win95/98 required it like every 3 months, XP every 6 months to a year, just to avoid the bloat and slowing down and issues. Same with reboots, it didnt have to be rebooted every time you ran a program, either.
Windows 7? My longest run between formats was like 4-5 years iirc, and that was due to hardware changes, not due to any performance or maintenance need. Ans for reboots? Only time that computer ever got rebooted is when a windows update demanded it, or when the power went out. Neither of which was particularly frequent.
It was also slick, agile, easy to use. You didnt have to think about shit when you used windows 7, you just did shit.
I’m not a fanboy, despite what this sounds like, but 7 was legitimately the best Windows OS, hell it wouldnt take much twisting for me to say it was the best Desktop OS, period. It was the first time ever that I was able to use the computer, and not have to stop and think “Well, I just finished running a heavy game, I need to reboot before I do something else” I just stopped one heavy task, gave the background processes a second to finish up, then went right to another heavy task without issue or concern.
It also had a very good UI. But Windows always had the best UI, by comparison, in the market, cause they spent billions on developing it so that the most computer illiterate could pick it up and use it with 15 minutes of instruction.
I mean, this was 100% predictable.
And anyone who didnt think it would happen were willfully blind or just plain ignorant.
You mean? Or you say?
Welcome to English Idioms 101
it has nothing to do with it. Welcome to the real English