a large portion of autistic people have trouble reading emotions in others.
that’s why they’re often drawn to things like books, comics, animated content, theater, and, like in this example, robots that clearly express their emotions.
speaking for myself (diagnosed ASD), it’s the ambiguity that bothers me more than anything. i like it when things are nice and clear, neatly organized, and generally don’t require a lot of attention to interpret.
interpreting the environment is taxing enough, adding a lot of emotional interpreting on top can quickly get overwhelming, which leads to poor mood, performance, and ultimately just straight-up headaches…again, this isn’t a hunch, it was part of the ASD diagnostic test.
so i can imagine how much easier it is for kids with similar problems to relate emotionally to something that shows it’s emotions in clear, easily recognizable ways, rather than having to guess constantly. that constant guessing gets real tiring, real quick…
I have very recently been diagnosed ASD, and in my childhood I think a toy pretending to have emotions, but in fact not having them, would make me much more anxious than no such toy at all, just me jumping around imagining things.
like that other comment said: it’s not for everyone.
some kids are gonna love it, some are gonna hate it.
target demographics for products aren’t monoliths ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
conciselyverbose@sh.itjust.works
on 21 Dec 10:32
nextcollapse
This should be a standard requirement for abandoning an internet reliant product (with all IP and internal documentation released and becoming public domain in the event of a bankruptcy, and keys handled by some consumer protection agency capable of facilitating community projects working to unlock them for owners).
But questionable value of the product aside, the fact that they’re making the effort to not be assholes and try to do what it takes to give their costumers’ products the life they can is better than most, so they deserve credit for that.
SlopppyEngineer@lemmy.world
on 21 Dec 11:48
nextcollapse
Electronic products and software should get a “at least supported until” label on the packaging and legally obligated to keep the servers running until that time.
conciselyverbose@sh.itjust.works
on 21 Dec 11:51
nextcollapse
Only if there’s an absolute bare minimum they’re allowed to choose of 5-10 years after the last device/software is sold.
And even then, I still think they should be required to unlock devices (and software DRM bullshit/APIs to re-implement server components) to allow people who want to maintain them themselves.
ExcessShiv@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 21 Dec 12:40
nextcollapse
The company behind this robot is going bankrupt, which is why support ends and they stop working. This law would do nothing in this case because the company seizes to exist.
corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca
on 21 Dec 15:21
nextcollapse
seizes to exist.
fruitycoder@sh.itjust.works
on 22 Dec 01:27
collapse
It should be considered an obligation to be met in the bankruptcy process. If they sell the IP for the product the purchaser should have to meet it. Failing that the users should be given the IP rights (opensource would meet this def to me) then.
EU pushed new product liability bill. After it takes effect companies will be responsible for breaking of devices and software.
LovableSidekick@lemmy.world
on 21 Dec 19:25
collapse
Seems like a good move but it will also raise the risk of releasing new tech. Startup money will have to include some kind of coverage for that, making it harder to get startup money. Rather than simply impose a liability I would feel better about requiring orphaned IP to be opensourced so interested parties can do exactly what’s happening in this case.
Nah, if a company goes bankrupt, their entire software base should just be posted online.
Or sold like their many assets.
LovableSidekick@lemmy.world
on 21 Dec 21:43
collapse
I agree if they simply go away, what they produced should become opensource. Sometimes this involves removing dependencies on proprietary software, which anybody who used the opensourced portion would in turn have to pay to license. So they have to rewrite those parts or make special arrangements. Anyway it’s not the slam-dunk you might think. Like after what happens in an action cop movie everybody walks away, but in reality they would spend months or years in court over damages to buildings, passersby getting hurt, etc. Nothing is ever as simple as outsiders think.
but it will also raise the risk of releasing new tech.
It has FOSS exemption.
Rather than simply impose a liability I would feel better about requiring orphaned IP to be opensourced so interested parties can do exactly what’s happening in this case.
TimeSquirrel@kbin.melroy.org
on 21 Dec 11:42
nextcollapse
I just don't get it with these proprietary cloud connected devices. Do people just not realize that keeping server infrastructure running for free after a product is sold is not in a company's best profit-seeking interests (maybe they don't even think about how things on the Internet actually work, I dunno)? I thought of this almost fifteen years ago when I started seeing smart thermostats. There should always be an option to go local, even if it requires the consumer to acquire a skillset in IT. Maybe we can start working things like that into right to repair legislation if it isn't already.
Usernameblankface@lemmy.world
on 21 Dec 13:34
nextcollapse
Most people don’t think about how things work. I’d guess that most customers thought all the smart features were internal and the Internet connection was just an arbitrary requirement
Exactly. Another example of people who are on forums like this are worlds apart from people who know quite literally less than nothing about computers.
I once had a tech support ticket for a computer not turning on. When I checked it out, they had connected a power bar to itself. This 40yr old man genuinely didn’t understand why that wouldn’t work.
For home stuff, look for the tech “Matter over Thread”. They’re protocols* designed to allow your stuff to work with any ecosystem, including local.
It’s been slow to roll out, largely, imo, because companies would prefer to lock people into their own ecosystems and apps. Apple, Google, and Samsung do have some motivations to be interoperable though, and Matter/Thread is that effort. Consider looking at Home Assistant if you want to know more about this ecosystem and local, open control.
I could go into more detail, but this is already a tangent.
WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works
on 21 Dec 17:49
collapse
maybe they don’t even think about how things on the Internet actually work, I dunno
bingo! that’s the reason behind most of their illogical decisions
just ask around, and you’ll find that they want things to just work without understanding how they work
Fear of embarrassing code is often a factor too. Amazing how coding standards instantly improve across the board the moment you realize people outside of dev might be scrutinizing what you’ve been shipping to customers.
True programmers know that novice code is a rite of passage. Every programmer worth their salt looks at their own older code and cringes at it. Most people who do this for a living are more likely to give helpful pointers rather than tear you down, if anything.
If someone is being a jerk to you about your code, stop listening to them immediately and walk away or block them.
LovableSidekick@lemmy.world
on 21 Dec 19:22
nextcollapse
This guy codes.
dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world
on 21 Dec 23:15
collapse
These guys are out of business anyway. They don’t have to care; they can just dump whatever they have somewhere and scuttle off into the night, never to be seen again, nothing more than an echoing “woop woop woop woop” fading off into the distance.
They’ve been handed a rare and highly valuable treasure. They get all the good will from the community for doing the one thing that everyone always wants these companies to do but never happens, and this is now someone else’s problem.
If you’re going to have a problem, someone else’s problem is the best kind to have.
Most companies don’t listen, these guys did. Many times when people did the right thing, they had to go through a process first.
It would have been if they did it completely on their own, maybe even designed the system for this possible outcome from the beginning.
But it’s the end result that matters. They can release the source or they can not. They chose to release it, and that’s great!
LovableSidekick@lemmy.world
on 21 Dec 19:26
nextcollapse
Amazon Dash buttons have entered the chat.
dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world
on 21 Dec 23:01
collapse
Yeah, but everybody knew those were a stupid fucking idea from the start. I didn’t and still don’t feel much sympathy for the people who deliberately bought one of those solely for its intended purpose and then got the rug pulled out from under them.
SplashJackson@lemmy.ca
on 22 Dec 00:47
nextcollapse
What’s the deal with these buttons?
LovableSidekick@lemmy.world
on 22 Dec 01:09
nextcollapse
By “everybody” you mean everybody except Amazon. And I had fun hacking those. They were often on sale for like 2 bucks and they came with a battery that was good for like a thousand presses. You had to start the online setup process but not select any products, listen for the button’s msg to Amazon which contained a unique ID. You could then have your own server listen for a “pressed” signal from that button and do whatever you want. I keep meaning to find out if there’s still a way to initialize brand new ones.
LovableSidekick@lemmy.world
on 22 Dec 08:29
collapse
I had a couple stuck on walls where I always wished I had put light switches. They toggled lights on and off using ESP-01 microcontrollers. Another one was in my daughter’s bedroom where I had rehung the door to swing the opposite way so she could leave the door partway open without the hall light shining in her face in bed. As the batteries died I replaced them all with buttons run by newer ESP32s… if any of that makes sense.
BarbecueCowboy@lemmy.world
on 22 Dec 01:12
collapse
Amazon was effectively giving them away for free for a large portion of their lifespan. You’d have deals where you’d pay for them and then get a coupon for actually using them equal to the purchase price. I feel like I even remember a few times where the coupon you got worked out to slightly more than you paid for the button. Basically, saying that someone ‘bought’ one was usually only partially true.
They did have a few legitimately good uses. Had to have something that needed restocking sporadically but you also didn’t think about often and could wait 2-3 days to receive when you realized you were out. A lot of prerequisites there, I used the ones for trash bags and detergent often.
It’s mostly just a shame the amount of ewaste produced at this point. I still have a box full somewhere in hopes of finding a use case.
Is this why there’s so much poverty in the world? Because once people have enough excess wealth, this is what they choose to spend it on instead of helping those who need it more?
el_abuelo@programming.dev
on 21 Dec 19:47
nextcollapse
I’m with you…except I choose to believe there’s a reason they’re going bust (because no, folks aren’t choosing to spend on this)
That said, I’d like to remind everyone that Elon Musk has the money and power to end homeless and poverty in the US and chooses not to.
threaded - newest
Using some creepy robot with a proprietary algorithm to provide “emotional support” to children sounds like a good thing to go out of business.
IIRC they were designed for kids with autism.
So these robots will be autobots?
I bet the kids feel lied to, so probably decepticons
<img alt="" src="https://mander.xyz/pictrs/image/da537e74-d13c-45a5-b4d8-2506a218e16c.jpeg">
roll out 😎
One would expect kids with autism to be more picky about their emotional support, not less
I’m sure it worked for some and not for others.
it’s about being able to read emotions:
a large portion of autistic people have trouble reading emotions in others.
that’s why they’re often drawn to things like books, comics, animated content, theater, and, like in this example, robots that clearly express their emotions.
speaking for myself (diagnosed ASD), it’s the ambiguity that bothers me more than anything. i like it when things are nice and clear, neatly organized, and generally don’t require a lot of attention to interpret.
interpreting the environment is taxing enough, adding a lot of emotional interpreting on top can quickly get overwhelming, which leads to poor mood, performance, and ultimately just straight-up headaches…again, this isn’t a hunch, it was part of the ASD diagnostic test.
so i can imagine how much easier it is for kids with similar problems to relate emotionally to something that shows it’s emotions in clear, easily recognizable ways, rather than having to guess constantly. that constant guessing gets real tiring, real quick…
I have very recently been diagnosed ASD, and in my childhood I think a toy pretending to have emotions, but in fact not having them, would make me much more anxious than no such toy at all, just me jumping around imagining things.
Cats and dogs would be easier. Or soft toys.
like that other comment said: it’s not for everyone.
some kids are gonna love it, some are gonna hate it.
target demographics for products aren’t monoliths ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This should be a standard requirement for abandoning an internet reliant product (with all IP and internal documentation released and becoming public domain in the event of a bankruptcy, and keys handled by some consumer protection agency capable of facilitating community projects working to unlock them for owners).
But questionable value of the product aside, the fact that they’re making the effort to not be assholes and try to do what it takes to give their costumers’ products the life they can is better than most, so they deserve credit for that.
Electronic products and software should get a “at least supported until” label on the packaging and legally obligated to keep the servers running until that time.
Only if there’s an absolute bare minimum they’re allowed to choose of 5-10 years after the last device/software is sold.
And even then, I still think they should be required to unlock devices (and software DRM bullshit/APIs to re-implement server components) to allow people who want to maintain them themselves.
The company behind this robot is going bankrupt, which is why support ends and they stop working. This law would do nothing in this case because the company seizes to exist.
You can put money and source code in escrow for this exact eventuality.
*ceases, a cute voice-to-text error
No just a non-native English speaker error in this case
Still cute
You’re cute
It should be considered an obligation to be met in the bankruptcy process. If they sell the IP for the product the purchaser should have to meet it. Failing that the users should be given the IP rights (opensource would meet this def to me) then.
In just world at least
EU citizens can sign EU Citizens’ Initiative for this for games.
But that’s communism!!1!1!!
EU pushed new product liability bill. After it takes effect companies will be responsible for breaking of devices and software.
Seems like a good move but it will also raise the risk of releasing new tech. Startup money will have to include some kind of coverage for that, making it harder to get startup money. Rather than simply impose a liability I would feel better about requiring orphaned IP to be opensourced so interested parties can do exactly what’s happening in this case.
Nah, if a company goes bankrupt, their entire software base should just be posted online.
Or sold like their many assets.
I agree if they simply go away, what they produced should become opensource. Sometimes this involves removing dependencies on proprietary software, which anybody who used the opensourced portion would in turn have to pay to license. So they have to rewrite those parts or make special arrangements. Anyway it’s not the slam-dunk you might think. Like after what happens in an action cop movie everybody walks away, but in reality they would spend months or years in court over damages to buildings, passersby getting hurt, etc. Nothing is ever as simple as outsiders think.
It has FOSS exemption.
In a way it does that.
Is there missing punctuation in that headline or am I an idiot?
No, there is no punctuation missing, the headline writing style is just hurting comprehensibility. I’ll expand it a bit.
“A startup, which is set to brick an $800 kids’ robot, is trying to open-source it first”
Cheers, I can read and comprehend the original headline now. I’m Australian so English isn’t my first language, at least that’s my excuse.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ca/pictrs/image/5008af64-8b43-4042-b5b2-910228412851.jpeg">
Here you go then
“Oi, this startup’s about to turn an $800 kids’ robot into a bloody paperweight, but they’re havin’ a crack at open-sourcing it before it carks it.”
I was able to read that with the accent. Goodonya
So...what is your first language then?
I clicked on this thread only to figure out what that title is supposed to mean.
Yes, it should at least be kids’. Kids robot doesn’t make sense.
.
I just don't get it with these proprietary cloud connected devices. Do people just not realize that keeping server infrastructure running for free after a product is sold is not in a company's best profit-seeking interests (maybe they don't even think about how things on the Internet actually work, I dunno)? I thought of this almost fifteen years ago when I started seeing smart thermostats. There should always be an option to go local, even if it requires the consumer to acquire a skillset in IT. Maybe we can start working things like that into right to repair legislation if it isn't already.
Most people don’t think about how things work. I’d guess that most customers thought all the smart features were internal and the Internet connection was just an arbitrary requirement
Exactly. Another example of people who are on forums like this are worlds apart from people who know quite literally less than nothing about computers.
I once had a tech support ticket for a computer not turning on. When I checked it out, they had connected a power bar to itself. This 40yr old man genuinely didn’t understand why that wouldn’t work.
Did they grow up in an Amish house? How is that possible
I really don’t know. All I can say was he was one of the lucky 10,000 that day.
For home stuff, look for the tech “Matter over Thread”. They’re protocols* designed to allow your stuff to work with any ecosystem, including local.
It’s been slow to roll out, largely, imo, because companies would prefer to lock people into their own ecosystems and apps. Apple, Google, and Samsung do have some motivations to be interoperable though, and Matter/Thread is that effort. Consider looking at Home Assistant if you want to know more about this ecosystem and local, open control.
I could go into more detail, but this is already a tangent.
bingo! that’s the reason behind most of their illogical decisions
just ask around, and you’ll find that they want things to just work without understanding how they work
OpenSourcing is a good move
What is “trying to” open source though? Make the GitHub repo public, include the database schema, and you’re done.
Startups like this aren’t known for their robust infrastructure design.
It’s most likely running on some weird unicorn setups no-one has bothered to document.
Definitely missing documentation to make it a proper repo
Fear of embarrassing code is often a factor too. Amazing how coding standards instantly improve across the board the moment you realize people outside of dev might be scrutinizing what you’ve been shipping to customers.
This is true even for my personal projects lol
I’m not a programmer but dabble. I’m always so nervous when actual programmers look at my code.
True programmers know that novice code is a rite of passage. Every programmer worth their salt looks at their own older code and cringes at it. Most people who do this for a living are more likely to give helpful pointers rather than tear you down, if anything.
If someone is being a jerk to you about your code, stop listening to them immediately and walk away or block them.
This guy codes.
These guys are out of business anyway. They don’t have to care; they can just dump whatever they have somewhere and scuttle off into the night, never to be seen again, nothing more than an echoing “woop woop woop woop” fading off into the distance.
They’ve been handed a rare and highly valuable treasure. They get all the good will from the community for doing the one thing that everyone always wants these companies to do but never happens, and this is now someone else’s problem.
If you’re going to have a problem, someone else’s problem is the best kind to have.
Probably a lot of stolen code
Likely they have proprietary or otherwise private information they want to clean out first, or they want to make it more presentable or documented.
I agree I’m not a fan of the “trying to” phrasing either.
Yeah it’s so simple, no way they could be the good guys, can’t have that.
Doing the right thing. How rare.
And how great of these particular folks for doing the right thing1
once they threatened to abandon it sure. eventually even corporations can be dragged into doing the right thing.
Most companies don’t listen, these guys did. Many times when people did the right thing, they had to go through a process first.
It would have been if they did it completely on their own, maybe even designed the system for this possible outcome from the beginning.
But it’s the end result that matters. They can release the source or they can not. They chose to release it, and that’s great!
Amazon Dash buttons have entered the chat.
Yeah, but everybody knew those were a stupid fucking idea from the start. I didn’t and still don’t feel much sympathy for the people who deliberately bought one of those solely for its intended purpose and then got the rug pulled out from under them.
What’s the deal with these buttons?
By “everybody” you mean everybody except Amazon. And I had fun hacking those. They were often on sale for like 2 bucks and they came with a battery that was good for like a thousand presses. You had to start the online setup process but not select any products, listen for the button’s msg to Amazon which contained a unique ID. You could then have your own server listen for a “pressed” signal from that button and do whatever you want. I keep meaning to find out if there’s still a way to initialize brand new ones.
That’s pretty cool! What would you use them for?
I had a couple stuck on walls where I always wished I had put light switches. They toggled lights on and off using ESP-01 microcontrollers. Another one was in my daughter’s bedroom where I had rehung the door to swing the opposite way so she could leave the door partway open without the hall light shining in her face in bed. As the batteries died I replaced them all with buttons run by newer ESP32s… if any of that makes sense.
Amazon was effectively giving them away for free for a large portion of their lifespan. You’d have deals where you’d pay for them and then get a coupon for actually using them equal to the purchase price. I feel like I even remember a few times where the coupon you got worked out to slightly more than you paid for the button. Basically, saying that someone ‘bought’ one was usually only partially true.
They did have a few legitimately good uses. Had to have something that needed restocking sporadically but you also didn’t think about often and could wait 2-3 days to receive when you realized you were out. A lot of prerequisites there, I used the ones for trash bags and detergent often.
It’s mostly just a shame the amount of ewaste produced at this point. I still have a box full somewhere in hopes of finding a use case.
$800… for an emotional support toy?
Is this why there’s so much poverty in the world? Because once people have enough excess wealth, this is what they choose to spend it on instead of helping those who need it more?
I’m with you…except I choose to believe there’s a reason they’re going bust (because no, folks aren’t choosing to spend on this)
That said, I’d like to remind everyone that Elon Musk has the money and power to end homeless and poverty in the US and chooses not to.
Well he’s not American so why would you expect that?
He can do it for SA though
No, but you will be happy to know the product failed
What a waste of resources just to make somebody richer!
No, it’s because of billionaires that hoard more money than 1000 people could reasonably spend in a lifetime.
Obviously it are the avocado toast
Yes, most millionaires are cringe but you should go after billionaires first.