lemm.ee is shutting down at the end of this month
(lemm.ee)
from Pro@programming.dev to technology@lemmy.world on 03 Jun 23:08
https://programming.dev/post/31570605
from Pro@programming.dev to technology@lemmy.world on 03 Jun 23:08
https://programming.dev/post/31570605
The key reason is that we just don’t have enough people on the admin team to keep the place running. Most of the admin team has stepped down, mostly due to burnout, and finding replacements hasn’t worked out.
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I’ve noticed this a ton over the last two or three months. Lemmy has become so much more negative than it was when I joined. It’s a real bummer. I can’t even imagine trying to be a mod or an admin.
agreed. the honeymoon period post-reddit-exodus was nice but this place is just like everywhere else now.
It’s still quite a lot nicer than reddit, even if it has its share of unpleasant characters. Whenever I read a reddit thread I am glad Lemmy exists.
Fascinating how quickly you can forget the actual abuse when thinking about an abusive ex.
It’s the normal amount of suck that is inherent and not the turbo suck that corpos intentionally cultivate for profit
And at least the average Lemmy user isn’t a complete fucking idiot.
I remember the early days of reddit, when we would make fun of the kids over at /r/SummerReddit every June. But then those kids grew up, took over the website, and now /r/SummerReddit is all of reddit.
Please, allow myself to introduce… Myself.
Hi. My name is TachyonTele.
I remember discovering Digg first and then reddit, and noticing how on reddit, back when it was Digg’s less glamorous knockoff, people didn’t comment unless they really knew what they were talking about. It was a pretty sensible and erudite site for a while. Then Digg nuked itself and reddit was forever changed.
I was there! Started on Digg after Kevin Rose mentioned it on The Screensavers (TechTV), joined reddit shorty after.
2006-2009 was peak reddit. Then after digg’s suicide, it was the beginning of the end.
And now he’s is trying to bring it back. I wish him the best of luck. Don’t fuck it up this time, Kevin.
Yeah I was bored the other day and opened up a niche reddit community and I was just floored at how positive everyone was versus the same community here. But I digress I imagine it’s going to be phases and I’ll continue to try and be positive.
name the communities lol
Looking at the ratio of my downvotes I guess here haha.
I’ve thought about how to respond to your comment for a while. I don’t want to “out” some niche communities here for being toxic. That just perpetuates the problem I’m complaining about. So instead a non niche example are the Nintendo and video game general communities here are overwhelmingly negative compared to their reddit equivalents.
you wouldnt get randomly banned here as you would on reddit, which i found out from the shadowban sub, even looking at your account wrong can trigger a ban.
I think that is just an effect of growing, or at least not shrinking and sticking around. There is ni point in spaming somewhere where there are no active users.
I don’t know if it was that short term, but I’ve always been rather concerned with the sharp degree of hostility and even outright hatred that seems to be tacitly accepted or encouraged.
I mean if you're someone new and then inundated with terrible news every day because you're still getting the hang of moderating your feed by yourself, you're bound to carry negative attitude everywhere else.
reddit can, have been, and will continue to be angry right leaning, and here it's the opposite. I get it, there are matters worth being angry about. but surrounding yourself with it just makes it pointless
My instance constantly gets attacked for being a “pro genocide nazi instance”. Which totally is not the case, but admins and mods are trying to ensure that no content is posted that is illegal where they live. And local rules here are also quite sensible.
How often do those laws actually get enforced, especially for small online communities who are against genocide? Like I understand not wanting to run afoul of the law, even if the law is immoral, but is it a realistic risk?
First of all, telling admins that they should break the law and face legal risks and fines because you want it is exactly what the Lemm.ee admins are talking about. Burning out, problems with replacements and so on. And second: We are talking about content in the style of “Israel has to die, kill all the jews” and yes, people get prosecuted for that. And you really do not want stuff like that on your instance, even if your country allows it
Difficult question. I think it’s realistic. Hate speech laws are enforced against individuals on a regular basis. If a German instance tolerated illegal content, then I expect the instance would sooner or later be involved in a prosecution. The prosecution would be against the user, though. The instance would only have to provide data to police. I’m not sure at what point the instance owners themselves would be found to violate these laws.
Apart from that, the instance is required to remove illegal content per the DSA. I think it’s realistic to expect that a prosecution would lead to a closer look at the instance.
Based on the uptick in “I was banned from Reddit” posts, I’m thinking that we’re getting a lot more users that were banned for good reason from Reddit. Looks like Reddit has also stepped up their game in their ability to keep those users off their platform.
Oh that’s an interesting thought that I hadn’t had.
Hopefully we aren’t becoming the containment board.
i visited the sub for shadowbans occasionally, i noticed alot of them were getting banned for no reason at all, so theres that to keep in mind, as long with the purges.
and then you got the ones that are the problematic ones: they are banning me because of my opinion, you know kinda which way they lean on the spectrum.
reddit also bans very indiscriminately as of the last few months, to cull thier numbers its intentional.
coincides with the ban purges of reddit of recently.
This always going to happen when a small group of people are going to try and the communications of a much larger group. They cannot scale and the more they try to keep up, the more tgey will cut corners and take easy, lazy decision.
Instead, everyone has to participate in community self-moderation. It should all be transparent and optionnal. Local sorting algorithms showing users what they ask to see.
Having a secret vanguard operating in the shadows is not acceptable,. Not only ut hurts them until they grow big enough to be the efficient secret police but then it creates an underlying organization of control shaping discourse on the entire platform.
The way forward is NOT to be reddit with extra steps.
It’s gotten to be as bad as Facebook and Reddit, tbh. Less of a reason to use it over the competition.
reddit is becoming fb 2.0/, sooner or later they push mostly RW propaganda like fb does.
probably with the sudden increase of lemmy.ee users from reddit who were part of the ban waves since the beginning of the year, many of them are rightfully banned for spreading pro-israeli, russian backed and right wing propaganda. along with innocent users that were unceremoniously banned.
I haven’t been following Reddit events since I left a couple years ago, but if there have been recent ban waves for bad behaviour, it wouldn’t surprise me to see corresponding upticks in it here.
I wish more of us spoke up against rudeness, confidently incorrect ignorance, combativeness, tribalism, brigading, and other such stuff when it rears its head here. If all of us participated in moderation, I suspect it would be more effective and make our mods’ lives easier.
besides the rightful bans, thier purges were quite different this time around, many of them were banned for no REASON at all.
People were being banned for up voting posts that got removed.
Managing a federated network comes with a lot of responsibility.
It’s not just federated networks. It is anything with user interaction. Managing and moderating any sort of sizeable social media site is a lot harder than people think.
it's why I said no to a discord server that I am chronically online in. I don't remember what was the active user count back then, probably just 100. the admins offered a mod position because I'm a good boi. I know I'll get angry at the slightest thing. but i always managed to stop kyself from posting angrily off the cuff. I am not fit to moderate strangers, even if their familiar strangers. dunno how I'd do with a smidgen of power.
I couldn't imagine the stress of moderating even larger network
Not really.
Shiiiit. What’s the easiest way to migrate all my communities quickly???
Go to your settings, and scroll down. Theres an export to json option. Just save it, and then you can imprt that file in your new account. Super easy.
Figuring out where to go is a little harder though.
Oh wow I didn’t realize that settings export included communities. That’s great.
Just switched and it was buttery smooth
Only bad thing is it doesn’t migrate your posts and comments. Thankfully it does migrate your saved posts!
It doesn’t migrate any posts or comments.
Consider moving them to PieFed
It has powerful mod features that Lemmy does not
Are Lemmy apps compatible with piefed instances?
Yes, all content is shared
I really like the “Feeds” feature of PieFed, it allows anyone to combine all of the different communities into a single feed. It really makes browsing something like “Technology” a lot better.
That’s depressing news, but I get it.
Any suggestions on alternative instances?
lemmy.zip would be my recommendation.
Interesting. What do you like about it?
Great admin team, public finances, reasonable rules, good defederation policy, data is hosted in the EU.
Thanks!
I started lemdro.id and we’ve got a couple other folks as admins too. Not too large an instance, but imo we have a similar philosophy to lemm.ee (although community creation is not enabled by default for users)
Can you think of any reason I’m not receiving a confirmation email when I register there?
The original lemmy.ml
Unfortunately, I had to move my community from there after some admin started interfering with the content.
Sad to hear this. I liked the people I’ve met from lemm.ee and the hands-off approach to defederation that the instance had.
double edged sword unfortunately. this allows ml and hexbear to infest the instance with thier users.
Oof owie, my instance
<img alt="and if you think there was, why were the admins burnt out?" src="https://media.tenor.com/images/ea3c3688b27913ade7d2bf5d529a897c/tenor.gif">
Hey Realtalk you ought to fuck right off
hey, real talk. if the users weren’t so obnoxious maybe the admins wouldn’t be burnt-the-fuck-out…
You realize that with a federated system they’re not just handling their own users right? They could defederate from the servers that host users causing issues, but that also means all of their users cannot interact with all those communities, without a choice. Lemmy currently only provides a sledgehammer when they really just need more fine tools.
Exactly this. lemm.ee wasn’t ever really into defederation either.
Unlike you, right?
do I seem burnt out?
Really giving everyone a prime example of that, thanks!
That’s a pleasant idea: best ways on going about that?
Thanks for all your work, you ran a great instance and I appreciate all the effort you put into it
I have mostly just lurked here and wanted to come out of my shell to say thank you, admins, for all your hard work on this instance. You did a great job running this instance and I’ll miss being the goblin hiding in the corner here.
Best of luck with your next endeavors.
We’re in Lemmy.world but I’m sure they got the message.
What happens to the communities there? Is there a way for them to automatically migrate to another instance?
The content will still be visible on other instances that were federated, according to their post.
You have to migrate your community to a new instance, and notify the users about its new location. Old content from lemm.ee will remain accessible.
lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/45876492?scrollToComments=t…
That is sad to hear. Thanks for the all the work admins.
D:
I was here for just a few days but thanks for providing the service
Now is a good time to check out PieFed.
It also has much better mod tools, so it will make life easier for mods
What are the issues with python if anyone knows? Is it a bigger issue with scaling up or will it get significantly slower as they add more features? People mention how its bad but they just assume people know why.
You can assume a roughly 10-100x slowdown on pretty much everything. It also does not feature type safety, so while it is easier to code in it it is also easier to make mistakes. Other than that… Just a simple scripting language
Id say 100x is extreme and python has optional types now but mostly you’re right.
We use Python on the back end of a public-facing website with massive levels of traffic. There are some maintainability issues due to the dynamic nature of the language, duck typing can be tricky for similar reasons, but as long as devs are sensible and test things rigorously, performance is fine, and I’m reasonably sure we’re operating at a scale at least a couple orders of magnitude larger than all Lemmy instances combined. Also, it’s a mature, concise language with excellent libraries, so most non-exotic requirements can be met without too much difficulty.
They don’t know why. I supect it’s because nothing works right if you do it wrong.
Is there a single instance that allows using apps, other than the api test instance? PieFed is a good idea for desktop, but the mobile website is cumbersome to use.
I signed up with piefed.au several months ago now, but every time I try, I’m getting error 400 “alpha api not enabled”.
Thanks for your time. Take care of yourselves.
Thank you for your hard work! Sorry I was being an ass time to time.
Thanks, admins, your efforts and patience have been greatly appreciated.
This suuuucks. We need another big, general instance that doesn’t defed everyone. But I get it, being an admin sounds like a lot of work or I would do it lol. Plus I don’t have place for a server around here. Or do most admins just buy space from the cloud?
There are already instances that aren’t eager to defederate to suit a few complainers.
They just need users.
Is yours one? I saw other people suggest Lemmy.zip, mander I think is one, and lemdr.oid or something like that.
The problem is that they tend to be smaller, which means harder to find.
lemmy.zip/post/40323214
Oh nice! Thanks!
im guessing competing with something like .world is pretty hard, since world has most of the content and admins, but they apparently blocked alot of communities, most of which sounds illegal or potentially illegal,but piracy is a wierd thing.
Oh no, they got tired of abusing their power.
You’re the problem
The double edged sword of not defederating from other instances is that the worst instaces that most block will use your space to keep shoveling their bullshit to more people.
It creats a lot of extra work for the admins/mods
What are the worst instances?
Damn, it was like the 2/3rd most active instance
lemmyverse.net to search for a new instance
im guessing its due to all the reddit refugees from the purges since janauary, too much too handle all at once.
Oh man I had no idea how popular that instance was. That’s really sad :(((
complete tangent: I see lemmy.world is listed there, but anyone knows why .world doesn’t appear on join-lemmy.org’s list of servers?
Yeah, I noticed that too, but the observer and the explorer in the same page show them, so…ok…🧐
Maybe they’re trying to divide the load among different servers, so they don’t serve .world as the obvious default choice.
Actually the observer and explorer links redirect to external sites (fediverse.observer and lemmyverse.net respectively)
It would be odd to single out just the biggest server instead of letting people decide themselves; I have a feeling this exclusion is to do with .world’s users having a beef with the folks running .ml 😅 (and vice verse - join-lemmy.org seems like the official Lemmy site, so ran by the .ml ppl)
Farewell Lemm.ee, it was a good two years.
How did you attempt to recruit administrator, and why didn’t it work out?
i heard most of them stepped down, and they did ask for admins months ago, around the time i got reddit banned. im guessing because there was no news it was a bad sign since.
In this situation, a user on lemm.ee would have to export their settings and create a new account elsewhere, right? Do their comments and post histories get exported too? I joined Lemmy only a month ago; this is the first time seeing an instance go down, so I’d appreciate it if someone here could clarify that.
Yes
No, but if I understand it correctly, they will live on in other servers that were federated at the time they were posted.
Thank you kindly!
Oh I didn’t realise that how it worked.
Doesn’t that mean that the hosting requirements for every instance are just going to become unfeasibly large as time goes on, or do the files get cleared out after a couple of years?
Text is very small and easily compressible, it’s more images that you need to worry about generally speaking.
Sad day. Lemm.ee was by far my favorite instance and my home. Thanks admins for the hard work.
.ee was my second favorate general instance after .ml I will be very sad to see it go
After .ml?
Then how can you even like lemm.ee and its right-wing mods?
I have never spent significant time on their instance, user wise, they tend to be less likely to scream that I am from .ML and so an evil tankie.
I spent more time there and ‘evil tankie’ was among the lesser (of many many) insults.
Like nazi, bcs in their propagandised brain that is the same thing.
They are on horseshoe level.
Im going to be honest with you, the worst instance I generally interact with is .world, I have never made a secret I am a communist, see username, but that is by far the worst instnce in my experience both of if I say anything “evil tankie” and they are also one of the worst at the evidence for me being a communist is not I have red army, but because I am from.ml
I admit this might be skewed because .world is bigger, but people from .ee tended to be more amenable,
Personal experience I guess.
.world is indeed not much better.
When recently .ml got federated again here and the reactions were mostly negative to extremely hostile.
But it’s good that we’re here, for some balance and post facts and opinions they otherwise don’t see.
Cheers
Cheers to you too, this was truly a plesent discussion, atleast on my end.
Ah . I just joined last month. So missed all these requests.
Lemm.ee has been an amazing instance.
Loved the transparency, mods, community, and lemm.ee is easy to type out and remember
wasnt enough to save the instance, they were probably running as a skeleton crew ever since they asked the need ofr admin.
Why couldn’t they just leave it be? People can block anyone that they don’t want to see posts from. Is it really that important to have an army of people banning anyone who they disagree with?
What else do the admin team do other than ban people and remove posts and comments?
On social media, putting the burden of blocking on a million users is naive because:
I have once helped others build an anonymous mix network (I2P). I’m also an anarchist. On Lemmy however, support decentralization, defederating from instances that have bad policies or corrupt management, and harsh moderation. Because the operator of a Lemmy instance is fully exposed.
Experience has shown that total freedom is a suitable policy for apps that support 1-to-1 conversations via short text messages. Everything else invites too much abuse. If it’s public, it will have rules. If it’s totally private, it can have total freedom.
This exactly.
As the anecdote puts it, once you start tolerating Nazis in your bar, it becomes a Nazi bar.
They poison the space, and the regular folks leave.
Exactly, the censorship and banning on there was ridiculous.
Good riddance
.
Can/How do you Import/Export your comments/replies?
If I know correctly, it is not possible to export posts, comments, replies.
Thanks
Sad, my first account was on this instance… although I hardly ever used it.