PayPal Honey steals affiliate links and lies about finding the best coupons
(youtube.com)
from HiddenLayer555@lemmy.ml to technology@lemmy.world on 23 Dec 2024 21:32
https://lemmy.ml/post/23941382
from HiddenLayer555@lemmy.ml to technology@lemmy.world on 23 Dec 2024 21:32
https://lemmy.ml/post/23941382
đ Fuck PayPal
And fuck Linus Tech Tips for intentionally keeping quiet about this after they found out.
threaded - newest
If youâre sitting at a poker table and you canât tell who the sucker is, itâs you.
Alternately, if you look at an online service and canât tell what the product is, Itâs you.
By that logic, linux users are the product.
Except Linux has proper legal underpinnings that anyone with a few brain cells can verify.
You can compile your own code too
Hence why people always say do your diligence
I mean, yes?
The key difference is linux wants you to help make it better. Something like Honey steals your data, and steals money from others, and then wants you to make it better.
No? The OS is the product.
I think the issue was with the original commenterâs phrasing. Facebook looks like a product. But the commenter meant âHow the product is being fundedâ.
Of course, it gets hard when thereâs multiple sources of revenue. You used to be able to spot ads and come to the conclusion that that was everything. Now an ad is just the tip of the iceberg.
Yeah, I feel like thatâs usually a very accurate saying, but it doesnât really work with a lot of open source projects.
I hate that youâre getting downvoted by so many people who donât realize youâre pointing out an exception to the rule, and instead think you have some fundamental misunderstanding about how Linux works.
They are getting downvoted for misconstruing something that is clearly a rule about profit making services and applying it to crowd sourced non-profit open source projects.
Truly open source projects donât have suckers.
To be honest I donât think thatâs clear at all, it feels like itâs more a rule about being skeptical of free stuff online. And many for profit companies have open source projects that can be used safely even though the source is a for-profit.
Itâs difficult for others to take advantage of you when you can learn what the software actually does and have it modified to work another way.
Linux (for the most part) is open source but Iâd argue the inclusion of any proprietary software/firmware/drivers means something ultimately isnât.
Linux is neither an online service, nor a business at all.
And even if you can tell what the product is, itâs still often you. âPremiumâ subscriptions for example might hide (some) ads, but services still collect as much data about you. Even grocery stores where the offer seems obvious are trying to bait you into installing their apps to collect data on top of charging you for every item. And sure itâs not relevant in this case, but itâs something we should never forget.
I never trusted Honey to begin with but this goes far deeper than I ever expected. I always wondered âyeah, but where do they get their money?â I always figured it was just a way to take peopleâs data and sell it to data brokers (which they probably also do, letâs be honest) but this is just blatant fraud. Stealing affiliate money from links and having companies pay them to purposefully give out worse coupon codes is just devious through and through. Itâs basically free money and everybody else, whether influencer or consumer, get fucked over in the process.
Yeah I always wondered what the catch was? The CEO was always posting on Reddit trying to defend honey and how cool they were.
Either way, I never trust any shopping deal plugins. The whole idea of them is sketchy.
Only shopping plugin I use is the one that comes with Edge. Surprisingly good to track price history and find other sites selling the product. I considered some Chrome plugin that displays an Amazon productâs country of origin to avoid Chinesium but apparently it didnât work well or something like that from reading the reviews. Had some attached rewards function for shopping with it, ick.
Thereâs a good one for Amazon called Keepa that shows you the price history of the item. Helps a ton keeping prices in check during sales like Prime Day to see how much you are actually saving, if anything.
Also nice to see how much you could potentially save if you just wait for the next sale or if there was already a price decrease. Often times it looks like Iâm good buying without waiting for any sale as the sales only knocked off a few dollars, at most.
Thank you for the recommendation, looks neat. Tracking prices of different conditions is a nice touch. Iâll have to scrutinize it further when I make my next online purchases and chuck it into Edge as I made that my dedicated shopping browser.
Triple Camel does this too
Nice! Thanks for the recommendation, I love having alternatives in case anything unexpectedly goes down.
Itâs funny how Edge got lambasted for it when they introduced that feature, but itâs legitimately super helpful and non-invasive.
I had no idea it was, I donât keep up with browser news. I just wish they didnât migrate to Chromium. It became my main browser for a brief period before that.
I just used it randomly when I was working and doing some shopping for a computer in my downtime and decided to try out the feature. That and the AI are super good when comboâed to shop smart. Managed to save $800 off a quality laptop.
keepa.com/#!
I use this extension to get a general idea of whether a product usually goes for cheaper and whether or not to wait. Really conveniently on the Amazon page directly.
Also pcpartpicker to track pc parts. Isthereanydeals for game prices.
I always assumed it was a combination of your guess and companies giving Honey special coupon codes so consumers are more eager to spend.
âHey Honey, weâll give you 1% commission if you just host this HONEY5 coupon for 5% off.â
That was my impression when I used it once. Wasnât worth having an extension just for a slight discount. Love when a company doesnât fulfill the service they advertise.
But that would be an ethical business model, we canât have that, this is PayPal and this is the internet. Thereâs no place for ethics in that combination.
Enshittification correctly defined.
Same. I never downloaded it or anything like it but I didnât realize they were playing both sides. Itâs fucked.
Pretty sure this was already posted yesterday when it came out. Or it might have been a different community.
Watching the full video is important though because they are scamming the consumer too, not just âââinfluencersâââ. Someone made a great comment about how itâs just one greedy troll stealing from another and has no effect on the consumer since they still save money but Honey not actually giving you the best coupons on purpose is next level dickholery.
Lying about the coupons really should be the focus so people stop harming themselves using Honey.
See, Iâm torn. Iâve never used honey, so I was never scammed. However I do think them scamming consumers is awful.
Buuuuuuuut, I DO enjoy the fact that they scammed influencers.
Yeah I thought that too until seeing the bits about consumers getting shafted. Awful company, hope they get sued into bankruptcy.
They are owned by PayPal, so that seems unlikely
Small content creator makes informative, honest review of a product. Honey gets money on the commission. This makes you happy?
I never use affiliate links AND I donât bother looking for coupons (letâs be honest, who does?) so I donât give a crap, every now and then Iâm saving money without taking it from anyone đ¤ˇ
I just look up price trends and thatâs pretty much it for me too. Coupons rarely ever worked for me in the early days of e-commerce so I quickly stopped bothering.
idk, I find the coupon thing to be super easy. Just takes one search and maybe two clicks if you have ad blockers on. Mostly the only time is if Iâm ordering something like pizza for a get together where no special applies. Thereâs a local chain in my state that had a coupon code for half off my order that wasnât listed on their site (they mightâve given it to me if I called but who knows). Been using that for the past year and it allows me to convince everyone to go there instead of a national chain. Iâve also been lucky with some manufacturers coupons for products Iâm ordering straight from them, itâs more rare though so itâs hit or miss sometimes.
Itâs also kind of a protection racket against shops. âPartner with us or weâll cut into your profits by spreading cheap coupon codes, but partner with us and weâll protect youâ
I used Honey before thr PayPal purchase and it did have working discount codes, as well as a cashback thing that I redeemed a couple times. But I havenât had any codes work for a long time.
I donât have any love for influencers but they have the right to make money IMO, and itâs completely shitty behavior for honey to be taking that away from them.
I said it in another post: if you see a bunch of influencers all suddenly peddling the same stuff, stay away. All of them can be bought.
Especially anything from Linus, theyâre a very scummy group.
Especially anything from NullDrive, theyâre a very scummy group.
Am I the only one who, upon seeing his videos for the first time, immediately thought he was an annoying little pinhead?
Like, Iâve watched his channel(s) surge in popularity over the years, and this entire time Iâve just been wondering why, and the issues that have come out about his little empire since have only confirmed my initial prejudice.
Their entire video is an ad filled experience of shilling not only their sponsors but themselves. Incredibly obnoxious and cramming in every YouTube stereotype from begging for likes and subs to clickbait titles and then insisting they have to do it so they can have their cake and eat it makes them even more obnoxious than if they just did it without wanting to be forgiven for it.
Itâs getting worse, I canât remember who but I was watching a video just the other day and their ad segment was the fucking ltt ratchet driver. You know, the one they supposedly made because they were tired of the market and the low quality rip-offs all the companies were just trying to make profit off of (itâs a shitty plastic screwdriver for 70$, link to pic and itâs being sold at fucking walmart now). They sold it as such a heart string story in the beginning, itâs just another mini-wannabe corporation.
I donât particularly feel bad at this point for their continued reputation downfall and the people responsible. Everyone has their own personal story of their favorite company which has turned to complete shit (Blizzard is one of mine). They didnât come out strong but doubled down corporate style when everything started. Thatâs fine, but anyone staying and putting up with the stressful workplace knows what theyâve gotten themselves into.
I used to think the importance of leadership at the top of a company to be overblown since they succeed based on the work of all of the employees, but it is pretty amazing how fast a change to shitty leadership can run a successful company into the ground.
Thatâs actually a very nice screwdriver. Nice ratchet screw drivers do cost that much. I have one, but given where LTT is these days as a company, I donât recommend buying it.
I would be very happy if creators were able to fund their operations off their own merch rather than outside advertising. That seems to be what Gamers Nexus does, or at least heading that way. What LTT does, though, is use it as an additional revenue source on top of their other advertising sources. Doing it right means resisting the urge to consume more and more, and LTT is not capable of that.
Itâs the corporate doubling-down that you have to worry and look out for. As you say itâs a revenue source for them. In fact, they spent over 100k (as stated by them in their own shows) for âMarketingâ to get this screwdriver out there, for something thatâs a revenue source for them.
It has to be such a lucrative deal for them that they are pulling resources from other revenue to prop this up. Prepare for the slow enshittification of his tools. They order them from a manufacturer, parts will become cheaper, bulks will slowly have less quality control, and theyâll âmove onâ to later versions that pocket them more cash. They really donât have to worry about their reputation as a âTool manufacturerâ, theyâll just pass the blame off onto another party while sweeping things under the rug and continuing on whistling like nothing happened.
I might need a !remind me on here in 10 years.
I have a few gripes with LTT but the screwdriver is legit good. A bit overpriced because of the branding sure but definitely not a throwaway product
Honestly, I just dislike the product more for it being a middle-of-the-road type of product then what I thought it was going to be when they were hinting at it plus the company and shit going on behind the scenes. I was a big linus guy back in the day, used to even put the WAN show on in the background during work. Guess this is what the Tesla people feel. Probably more jaded thinking about what the people behind the scenes are going through, while the money fucking rolls in for the top.
Oh please attack them on actual grounds rather than a made-up nonsense. The screwdriver is actually decent product if you care about that sort of thing. No oneâs getting scammed there, Itâs an actual product thatâs of relatively good quality.
If you donât care about screwdrivers then youâre probably not interested in the product anyway and if you are a frequent screwdriver user you probably understand why itâs a good product.
Definitely could describe me as a frequent screwdriver user. Currently restoring 2 John Oster vintage drill drivers, tradesmen, electronic repair tinkerer (unfortunately for everyone else in my life as well, itâs always overwhelming), just basically always have a screwdriver in my hand every day.
I think if I were to reevaluate my statement, I would put it as:
âItâs a shitty-looking-plastic Screwdriver, for 70$â
You can claim the inner mechanisms and their elevated teeth count âmakes it a vastly superior productâ, but as someone who owns several ratcheting screwdrivers, I wouldnât recommend this out of the blue for someone. If someone has âparticular gripes, all of which are solved with this productâ, then it might be a good match for you.
If you want to support them, the 70$ isnât a bad price ticket for what you get. Itâs like a donation with a really cool grab bag that you actually want. If youâre telling someone who doesnât have a ratcheting screwdriver to first pay 70$ on this? Youâre just shilling for the company.
I canât believe I have to say this near the year 2025 of our lord and saviour president musk, but donât buy your fucking tools from a tech tip influencer. These are a MegaPro patent from an actual tool company. They are lower in price, rubber grips, and actually look better. If you donât care about the look, spend an extra 10$ and get the Snapon with a LIFETIME WARRANTY. Itâs the same one Linus used before he created this gimmick, he didnât replace it because it had âsentimental valueâ apparently.
I could go on and on, but obviously anyone thatâs actually looked into it would know that this isnât such a grand prize as those who want to push LTT merch make it out to be.
edit: meant to say shitty looking plastic, not shitty plastic.
I got that creepy feeling from him the first time I saw a video of him. Every photo of him I saw set off alarms. Iâve also never understood why anyone even likes the guy.
This was years before all the issues came to light.
They event have the stupid thumbnail stereotype
Soviet Womble expressed the feeling I have against channels like that very nicely: 7:56, in case link with timer doesnât work
Linus has said on multiple occasions that he takes a lot of tips from Mr. Beast so unsurprising
Because of his name, I thought he was a pro-Linux channel. I was swiftly disappointed.
No, heâs pro blanket!
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/32947240-ffa6-4fc1-bbe6-8396f9465515.jpeg">
I have nothing clever to say here, so normally Iâd let my upvote express my feelings, but that feels inadequate in this case. I just wanted to use my words to let you know that this comment amused me a great deal and to thank you.
I mean the easiest name so you canât really go for him for that.
Iâm not exactly sure what youâre saying here, so I apologize if Iâm misinterpreting, but - while I have many potential complaints about Linus - I donât blame him for his name resembling the word âLinux.â
He once bricked his OS during a ârun Linux for a weekâ challenge. He tried to do
apt install steamor something and ignored a bunch of warnings. Of course he then bashed Linux because he didnât pay attentionYeah, I didnât see that video, but I recall reading about it. Apparently the package manager warned him that something would be potentially destructive and he ignored the warning, then blamed Linux for it when it was destructive.
Edit: that wall of text really got away from me sorry. Tried so hard to not be misunderstood đ
I really donât wanna defend Linus here buuuutâŚ
I can see someone whoâs switching over from Windows making the same mistake, especially if theyâre good with Windows but new to Linux. You get so conditioned constantly telling Windows to take off the fucking training wheels and ignoring all its bullshit warnings that I can see you making the same assumptions on your first(ish) time using Linux. Plus you donât expect something as benign as installing Steam to destroy your desktop manager.
His biggest criticism if I remember correctly was also that widespread adoption wonât be feasible until <whatever distro> is idiot proof and I agree. Ease of use is there these days but the things that make Linux so powerful can also be the things your average Windows user (deletes desktop shortcuts by accident and panics thinking they uninstalled their apps level of technical) can use to break their install, especially if they blindly follow one of the many (sometimes out of date) tutorials out there that tell you to run some random commands in the terminal.
With that said, itâs still his mistake. He shouldâve read the damn instructions, and owned up to it more. Heâs technical enough to know you canât go in assuming you know how to use something youâre new to.
Obligatory I fucking love Linux and hope it becomes the default someday not just because fuck Windows and fuck Microsoft, but because itâs genuinely amazing in its own right.
No worries about the WoT, Iâve often been there myself.
Thank you for the clarification. As I said, I didnât see and donât plan to watch the video, so I didnât know the details. I donât know what it would take for Linux to be widely adopted or whether it could be considered âreadyâ but I wish it would.
Iâm with you. I heard of him on Reddit forever ago and couldnât get through a single video.
But I really enjoy watching Techlinked :(
What annoys me the most is since his last drama, Linus HAS to be the face in every video now! Wtf it used to be a bunch of them took turns making videos, and it was fun seeing everyone work on different things. He has to be front and get all the attention, it just feels weird now.
Side effect of him stepping away from the CEO role, I guess.
Pretty sure it has nothing to do with him needing attention and everything to do with thumbnails of him getting more clicks. Itâs the only thing the company cares about.
They whore for corpos, that's who pays them
Some do good work but got to assume they are an enemy until proven otherwise.
I have a built-in spidey sense that hates any product that gets peddled simultaneously by a bunch of YouTubers.
Or, just donât trust ads period
Do your own research
Okay, all of these customer reviews loved this product!
Weird how formulaic they sounded though.
Didnât say anything about site reviews either :p
But ya finding good sources can be hard
Do your own research is the famous last coherent phrase of the QAnon crowd. Idk what the answer is but that phrase will forever make me uneasy.
How long are we going to let the far right keep stealing our words? Itâs a proud respectable cryptocurrency term.
Grifters all the way down then
Itâs also something leftists famously tell each other ÂŻ_(ă)_/ÂŻ
Or just donât buy shit you donât need.
(You donât buy Honey.)
Technically you donât need housing or personal transportation so
Even nomadic culture have housing they carry with them.
See also: RayCons headphones, which appear to be unilaterally bullshit but were on absolutely every video for a couple of months, touted as being the very best.
At this point, anything these goons âinfluencersâ try to sell me on is a scam, and Iâll avoid it at all costs. People do insane things for money. Just watched a coffeezilla video on the CSGO gambling scam and holy shit, people are straight up heartless and have no humanity in them.
I respect coffee but he said nice things about MrBeast who is known to hire pedophiles and sexual pests
This guy? www.youtube.com/watch?v=dslLBsHkVzE
Bro just released a video investigating Mr beast. Lol
PayPal is not customer friendly, they also straight up steal funds by locking your account
PayPal is a class corpo parasite. They tax us
What to expect from the Musky one and the Vampire?
PayPal is not a bank. Your funds are NOT FDIC insured, no matter what their docs say.
In certain countries they fall under quasi-bank regulations eg. âPayPal Australia Pty Ltd (PayPal) is a limited Authorised Deposit-Taking Institution (ADI) with authority to provide purchased payment facilities (PPFs).â
That gives some measure of protection on how they handle your funds, but holy shit I would not keep any money in a PayPal account for any longer than absolutely necessary. I use it as a convenient intermediary between my actual card and sellers, no more than that.
Yeah, itâs wild how close PayPal came to killing Minecraft early on by locking all of Notchâs money as soon as MC started to take off.
Yep, happened to me. Theyâre evil. They own Venmo too btw.
.
I am so disconnected from this influencer thing that I first heard about Honey when news were pushing that it was a scam. Iâm just living under a rock and sometimes that saves my butt, I guess.
They sponsored a podcast that I listen to, and thatâs how I heard about it. I donât buy stuff online often enough for it to be useful, though, and Iâm wary about installing stuff like that anyway.
I guess that podcast has egg on their faces now.
LTT⌠toilet flushing! I had no expectations of paypal. To my shame I used them in the past,but deleted my account after reading how scummy they are. fuck paypal and anything affiliated with them.
Mid this year they also started sharing transaction data without consent...
Delete that account
Oh, I deleted it like 1 year ago. it was probably slightly more reputable back then. it does make it easier in some cases to have a centralised way of handling payments, but Iâd rather struggle with inserting my cards each time.
A useful question to ask when hearing about a new company is âWhatâs your business model?â
Real as shit. I know idiots who think apple pays people scaling on how many downloads their app has xD (kinda like yt views)
There is no such thing as a free and benevolent product with an advertising budget.
Wikipedia
Their advertisement budget is collected by guilt tripping Wikipedia users using the lie that the website would cease if they didnât âdonateâ.
Yes, their method of advertising/fundraising is atrocious. They still have an advertising budget and their product is benevolent and free.
I agree
Show me a Wikipedia ad that they paid money for?
They have a budget spent on advertising on wikipedia itself, plus the cost of the emails they send out asking for donations.
Does it even count if youâre advertising on your own platform? If Iâm able to see the âadsâ in the first place, Iâm already using it.
I also wouldnât exactly call a donation drive âadvertisingâ either. Theyâre not trying to onboard more users to the service, theyâre nagging people who already use the service to give them money. Which is itself leaning a bit on the wall of what is and isnât âfreeâ.
YES
Free and benevolent maybe not. but genuine and non malicious?
âWhatâs your business model?â âwe make and sell delicious sandwiches. Customer buys the sandwich for a little mote than it costs to make so we get money for ourselves.â That isnât a scam.
Correct. Itâs not a scam. Because itâs not free. The sandwich had a price posted, you paid it, you received the product. Valid business model.
What would you think instead if you saw a NYT front page ad taken out for Free Sandwich Mart, the all-you-can-eat totally free sandwich emporium?
Or in this case, a free browser extension that paid to sponsor five thousand YouTube videos that promises to help you pay less money to every store you activate it on at no cost to you?
Yes. Which is why, when you see a novel service being advertised, it is a useful exercise to ask of them âWhat is your business model?â
âWhere are they getting money to pay for sponsorships and what are their motivationsâ
I used honey for a while and it was working great for me with âexclusiveâ coupons and Cashback and then one time I bough a cellphone that was supposed to have $250 cashback. I did all the necessary steps, read the t&c, took screenshots of the offer and made the purchase. I never got the transaction to appear on their website. Sending emails it trying to contact them was futile (I even made an automatic script to send an email everyday to follow up). Fuck PayPal
Small claims
I thought it was just collecting and selling user data but while Iâd bet itâs still happening - wow, this is way craftier.
nypost.com/âŚ/elon-musk-made-his-first-millions-inâŚ
I have been using PayPal increasingly for online payments. Not sure why. I have heard old stories about PayPal but Honey seems really bad. Its basically a given that any fintech company are going to be dodgy scammers but PayPal seemed almost grown up and respectable. Guess not.
Oh you naive child
I use Klarna for basically everything I buy. I should probably reevaluate that. But Iâve had no issues so far. It notifies me when my payments are due. Helps me collect the sum of what I owe each month, each week. Helps me group payments to pay similar/connected things simultaneously, categorize purchases, etc, etc.
I really hope thereâs nothing dodgy going on there. But at least Iâm not giving them interest on anything I buy. Always make sure Iâm paying my stuff on time, and no postponed payments.
Iâm guessing their business model is to exploit people who have issues paying on time and to collect interest and late fees, as well as receive convenience fees from stores implementing Klarna as a payment option.
In 2023 they got a 1.1 million SEK fine for breaking the law that regulates working hours. To âallowâ (strongly encourage) your employees to work nightshifts you need a collective agreement approved by the union, which they didnât have.
More recently, they got a 500 million SEK fine for skirting the anti-money laundering regulations in Sweden.
The whole âbuy now, pay laterâ deal is a credit loan. They are most likely paying the merchant directly and using your loan as collateral to speculate on the market, until you pay them back for that loan. If thatâs true, they are making profit on the interest gained from your loan.
Correct. Like all credit banks they promote the âbuy now, pay laterâ option before direct payment, which is becoming a pandemic on our society. Hardly any user interaction needed. They also offer their own payment plans which encourages buying even more expensive items you cannot afford.
Yeah. I definitely donât think Iâm the target audience for their service. Paying everything on time, every time. Buying only what I can afford. Etc.
Iâm not very educated in economics, so Iâm struggling to understand this. Is there a way to easily explain this? Iâm 38 so⌠please use big words if you like, but simple domain language. đ
Maybe use privacy.com instead (they also have an app), they can generate virtual credit cards and you can set limit is (one time payment, or monthly $10 only, etc). Itâs great if you need to cancel something or if they try to charge you extra. Saved me $150 when boost tried to charge me 1 year after I bought a phone from them!
Itâs also great for predatory services like GYM membership that you canât cancel.
Linus Tech Tips really is scum. Yet more proof of that.
It was a matter of time until the public found out about this. They couldnât think in the long term, by not accepting a bit of backlash, exposing the scam they unknowingly participated in they only opened themselves up for more later.
They are not only evil, they are stupid too, which is worse.
Same person that said ad blocking was the same as piracy.
edit: People downvoting me like I disagreed with him. Just saying how he looks at it. I think itâs a bit of a false dichotomy but they are definitely similar.
Have you ever heard his full stance on the matter? Because he clearly stated that this is not a judgment against using it. Heck, heâs been open about having sailed the high seas himself and still doing so for media he physically owns.
Itâs just that gaining access to media while circumventing the payment (ads in this case) is basically piracy. Which is fair.
Signed, A uBlock User
How much you want to bet he uses Ad block himself but itâs suddenly different when YOU do it on HIS content?
I trust Linus is being sincere when he says âitâs not a judgementâ but blocking ads is being compared to a criminal doing copyright infringement (illegal). The word used is one originally meaning for a person murdering others on boats (immoral), and itâs used because itâs pejorative. Itâs unavoidably judgemental.
If I hacked a server to get content then I would be circumventing payment at it shouldnât be up to me how it responds to requests, I donât own it. Google trying to enforce playing adverts via software running on my property is an unjust overreach. The user choosing what displays on their own monitor is not âcircumventionâ, itâs claiming ownership over your computing. Google could choose to verify on their servers if Iâve paid (in normal currency) but instead their servers act like adverts are an optional donation.
<img alt="Photo of a cat and a captain uniform, with a caption. The catâs head is poking out of the uniform. The caption reads âlook at me, I am the captain nowâ." src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/3bf7711f-d1f9-49e0-b7ca-f6b892c1761e.png">
ItâŚis? Youâre copying digital content without paying for it. I use uBlock but I donât pretend to have the moral high ground.
Itâs⌠not? Itâs protection against malware and profiling by shady companies.
It can be both things at the same time.
It is. Taking from a service without paying for it, and actively avoiding the service making money via advertising is basically the same as watching a film without paying for it.
Both ways, you consumed a service and the people providing it got nothing, but it cost them something to create and provide it.
They are similar only if you presume there is an agreement of content in exchange for revenue from adverts. If you view the internet as a place for open collaboration, or oppose (internet) advertisement, then you wouldnât presume that agreement and it looks very different.
OP isnât exactly giving you the full story there. I know for a fact Iâve seen a video on this. I remember thinking at the time âwell duhâ.
Literally just watched that. I agree with his consideration that thatâs fraud.
Ltt didnât hide shit, they posted it on a public forum
Yeah, that not nothing but it isnât far off. They have a massive platform. It deserved at least a video telling people about it.
They didnât hide it, but a huge portion of their audience doesnât read the forums. A 10 minute video of Linus ranting about them would have opened this scandal to a wider audience years ago.
Linus usually likes to rant about it on the WAN show then they usually make a clip for YouTube, but weird he didnât do that for honey, maybe he didnât know how far the scam went.
As creator that makes some of their profits from affiliate links, I donât see how that could be the case for him.
Seems more likely they had a reason to avoid beef with PayPal.
Could have a non disparagement clause in their former agreement
Not the level of a non-compete clause but thatâs a scummy thing I hope is not legal.
Itâs fairly common. As far as legal, that will depend on the jurisdiction and the mood of the judge.
Linus said it would be on this weekâs WAN show
Especially considering he hasnât been shy about ranting about a lot of things from (insert latest apple thing) to âfucking eggshellâ
There may have been non-disclosure agreements between Linus tech tips and PayPal Honey. They may have threatened to sue him if he went public. Iâm assuming weâll find out the details in the next few weeks.
And then they took sponsorships from Karma which does the exact same thing
Some very vocal people on Lemmy just love hating on LTT. I donât think this topic was worth them making a main channel video on, I think their forum post was good and I believe they even mentioned this functionality of Honey a few times on the WAN show. It wasnât a secret, and anyone who cared to do in-depth research on a potential sponsor could have found out.
And yet hereâs the scandal being exposed TWO YEARS LATER. Yeah, LTT couldnât possibly have handled this better⌠/s
They told everyone and nobody cared, turns out people care if a YouTube video is made framing the same thing differently. Like yeah, Honeyâs practice is bad for the creator industry, but is it bad enough to bring it back to the people who took their money? No, I donât think so.I think this is more of an example of how easy it is to get the masses angry with a YouTube video than anything. Itâs good that more people are going to move away from this information harvesting app, but I really feel like the reaction and hatred is overblown and, at least for the hatred towards creators, unwarranted.
The way I see it, people still take money from predatory gambling sites, and if any creator deserves pushback, itâs them.
[Added information: LTT say they were unaware Honey was mistreating users. So they had no reason to make a video at the time they dropped Honey for mistreating them.]
Their viewers getting scammed by tech they promoted isnât worth a video on their main channel? If they could legally do it I think they should have.
LTT have made mistakes (edit: and made choices/comments I would disprove of) but the dunking here does seem disproportionate.
Iâm definitely noticing a lot of hate warranted or not bjt itâs honestly also been hard to defend them after their last âscandalâ. Once bitten twice shyâŚ
Same reason I donât try to give CD Projekt RED the benefit of the doubt anymore even though I loved Cyberpunk despite the messed up launch, and it seems theyâve largely redeemed themselves - I now realize where their priorities lie.
They could have been exposed to legal liability to report on a business partner like that.
If only they had some medium to post the information, perhaps a medium that that VAST MAJORITY of their viewers use.
Their complaint was that honey inserted their affiliate cookie even when they didnât find a coupon code for you. I doubt they knew the full extent of the scam.
Plus, we donât know what was in their contract with honey. They could still be subject to a non-disparagement clause.
GN doesnât seem to have a problem holding their sponsors accountable, putting a story together, doing their due diligence, and then letting everybody know.
I knew this was Douglas Adams by the tone but had to look it up to realize it was Hitchhikerâs Guide to the Galaxy. Time for a re-read!
If something advertises on youtube itâs a scam. Simple to remember really.
I donât mind things that are an actual thing to buy. I want to research it firstâyou can get a better electric razor than Manscaped for not much moreâbut at least itâs clear how they make their money. Honey was obviously getting money from someone other than their users, and thatâs an immediate red flag.
Yeah. PayPal bought a coupon browser extension for how much? If the only thing they do is save YOU money, how come they can afford a sponsored segment in a mr beast video?
I and many other people naturally assumed that honey was getting their money from consumer data collection. Which is why I didnât use the service myself. The surprise is the fact that the scam isnât just consumer data collection but actually stealing commissions from content creators as well as using consumers as a gateway to stealing money from businesses that they have contracts with.
Thatâs why I did not buy an eco flow or jackary. Too many influencers was a turn off. I went with BLUETTI.
This isnât even remotely true. There are lots of advertisers and sponsors that arenât scams. But unfortunately our consumer protection laws havenât quite caught up to the digital marketplace. So there is a lot of room on the internet in general for scammy behavior.
As always, itâs buyer beware. As well as a big amount of content creator beware as well.
Is nebula also a scam? I saw it sponsored on lots of youtube channels.
Honestly I thought all of this was common knowledge at this point, back when I used Honey (many years ago) I saw its affiliate code in the address bar and thought âhuh, thatâs how they make moneyâ
I remember researching it a while ago when I was curious how they made money. If anything else, this just illustrated glee little research and care people have with their online information.
Iâm so proud I never consumed these guys shit
Was it all that surprising to you though?
By the time honey hit the scene we had been ten years into âsketchy Browser extension that monitors your browsing habits and injects adsâ
I guess getting flogged by your favorite influencer ads a veneer of legitimacy for a lot of people.
You guys think Rakuten does the same? I have got so much money from them.
Rakuten is up front about it. They force their affiliate links, then pay you part of their cut.
Honey forces their affiliate links in exchange for maybe finding you a discount code.
I also think Rakuten compensates me fairly. I take the payout in Amex points. Instead of money they give me 1 cent per point which I can leverage to a value of around 5 cpp through transfers
I book my hotels for with them for generally 5%. It adds up.
I think what was truly surprising is that they were bought for 4 billion.That much money for⌠basically an out and out scam. Paypal is that sure that itâs:
entirely legal
Will never be stopped
will return on a 4 billion investment.
I never trust browser extensions outside of a select few. However, I have used Paypal quite a bit. I would think many of us have.
I avoid PayPal categorically
Seriously.
Wait, when did Paypal buy Honey? đł
2020 for $4 billion.
And Honey has always worked like this. So PayPal knew exactly what they were buying which explains the price tag. Paypal knew they were going to make their money back and then some.
Just open their privacy policy and done. They sell your browsing info, and you could stop it there
Just saw a video that the honey people are making another SCAM called PIE. They make an Ad blocker, then put their own ads. wtf.
www.youtube.com/embed/VTxnM3J0I0k?width=828&heighâŚ
Ever since it was explained that Mr. Beast only smiles with his mouth, I get skeeved out every time I see him.
Mr Beast literally shadow banned the word teeth from his YT comments. Itâs hilarious.
Itâs a shame too, I really miss all the great tooth related discussions we used to have there.
Oh⌠THATâs whatâs off!
Shit! You are right. Thats horrible. And explains why he freaks me out.
Mr. Beast is completely creepy.
His audience are largely children too
I guess most people donât have much knowledge about affiliate link URLs and how easily they can be rewritten to shift where the commission goes. I implemented SkimLinks on a hunch of websites so Iâve seen it before. Forum owners used to get upset about anyone posting product links in their comments because they night include an affiliate code. SkimLinks adds JavaScript to every page that rewrites those codes to the forum ownerâs personal account. It will even insert an affiliate code into basic Amazon links that donât have one. Once this came out, forums went a lot easier on Amazon links.
After seeing all this, the second I spot a browser extension that wants to get between me and Amazon, I immediately assume they will rewrite all the links for their own benefit. Otherwise whatâs in it for them? This news isnât much of a surprise.
The biggest issue that this video brings up is that businesses can filter out certain coupon codes if the discount is too high
I donât really wanna watch a video⌠but how do you âstealâ affiliate links or coupon codes?
If you are doing affiliate marketing for a company and they give you a coupon code for 10% off called GET10OFF and that code gets used, the affiliate marketer gets the sale no matter where they got that code from?
I assume it looks for affiliate links and replaces the original with itâs own affiliate ID.
Iâve slept since I watched and am not great with tech, but iirc the link with the affiliate code when clicked takes you to the site. Then honey has a pop up that, when clicked, replaces the link with their own, swiping the commission. Hope that makes sense - most people likely would not catch it. The Linus tech tips was used as an example of even a tech channel with lots of employees taking quite a while to notice themselves, and even when they did, it wasnât quite conclusive for some reason?
Another thing the video touched on is that honey would claim to search for coupons but often opt to show what the partnered companies want. So, could be thereâs a coupon for 50% but they only show 10%.
Ah gotcha. So what I said about coupon codes would be valid, but affiliate links are different than the coupon codes. Also crazy they hide bigger discounts.
Edit: But I guess they could find a company offering a coupon code, then sign up themselves knowing itâs an option now, and then show that code instead.
He says that when you click on an affiliate link, a cookie gets stored on your browser that lasts for 30 days, saying that the source should get the commission for your purchase. Honey has a popup in checkout, even when there are no codes, with a big âGot Itâ button to close the popup. Clicking the Got It button replaces the old cookie with a Honey cookie, giving the commission from your purchase to them instead of your source.
and thats only one of the problems he mentions in the video
Can we make a version of this add-on that replaces the links with a choice of charity links?
Might as well do some good in the chaos of the internet.
I deleted my PayPal account a couple of months ago already. Problem solved.
I havenât trusted LTT for about 5 years now.
Agreed. I remember enjoying their workshop videos a long time ago, but they canât even be trusted for PC building info, much less anything else.
.
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Theyâre one of the largest tech media companies and deliberately chose to sweep this under the rug instead of reporting on it. Then they took sponsorships from Karma, which is a competitor to Honey that does the exact same thing.
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Watch the video.
seriously⌠did you watch the video?
youtu.be/vc4yL3YTwWk?t=785
Here. Hereâs a link to the exact moment that entire chapter starts.
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⌠Ok well hereâs the link to the moment (in the video you watched) where we have one **staff ** member giving an official response to how LTT interpreted the problem in a forum post on their website.
youtu.be/vc4yL3YTwWk?t=811
And hereâs a link to their youtube channel where they talk about honey
www.youtube.com/@LinusTechTips/search?query=honey
Youâll notice. There isnât one.
So for at least two years, they knew honey was stealing affiliate links and considered it a big enough problem to end their partnership, but did not consider it a big enough issue to make a video on it.
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Iâm down to listen to their response myself but as someone who tried really hard to explain away their last dumb controversy only to be proven wrong multiple times, I wouldnât be surprised if it was just pure negligence. Actions speak louder than words and their actions have shown theyâre a flawed company like any other despite what their conversations on WAN show would have you believe.
Fuck Honey/PayPal first and foremost, donât get me wrong. But unless there were legal issues around it, we also canât ignore it if the biggest tech YouTube channel found out about one of the biggest sponsors on YouTube being a scam, stopped working with them for that reason, but said absolutely nothing to anyone else.
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Linus said they were unaware Honey was being bad for users when they dropped Honey.
Iâm unaware of when Honey was purposely giving users not the best coupons - did that happen back then?
First of all, Lemmy has a lot of users for whom English is a second language. So maybe donât be a jackass about correcting grammar.
Secondly, in case you happen to be in that group of people âlargest media companyâ in this context applies to their reach, and not to their actual size. They are âlargeâ because they have a large audience, generate a lot of revenue, and are worth a lot of money. LMG also comprises 10 different YouTube channels with maybe 10 billion views between them.
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Sometimes people exaggerate and if you point out what they said is inaccurate then they get mad youâre not addressing their main point.
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LTT says to have not known users were being mistreated at the time they dropped the sponsor, and that they didnât discover it but were informed.
Everybody: Fuck Peter Thiel, fuck Elon Musk, fuck Honey, Fuck PayPal
Everybody: unflinchingly using PayPal
I dunno, I stopped a while back, it wasnât hard really. Iâve also heard that while they are usually fine with regular sums of money they are not to be trusted with large sums. Just word of mouth an Iâve got no proof but it put me off.
There are some examples of buyers exploiting the returns policy for expensive items. The buyer initiates a return of item but never sends it, gets item and refund.
Deleted my ebay account but very rarely will buy on the site. Iâve yet to find a UK alternative.
This isnât anything new. Brave browser does this, ad hijacking is a common thing. Many companies have been doing this for years, why is it only coming up now?
The best time to burn down a poisonous tree was 20 years ago etc etc
That doesnât include users being a victim? Honey gives users worse coupons when better ones are available, apparently that happens if companies do a deal with Honey.
The product is spyware by design. Itâs a honey pot for people trying to save a few bucks, while exposing their entire browsing behavior. They even called it honeyâŚ