nutsack@lemmy.world
on 19 Aug 2023 02:47
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every few reboots it asks me to install it and it’s really fucking annoying and I have a feeling I’m not going to have a choice at some point. my wife installed it accidentally and now she’s fucked. the thing fucking sucks.
landsharkkidd@aussie.zone
on 19 Aug 2023 03:50
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I was wondering why I kept getting that on my work computer. I don’t mind windows 11, I think it looks nice. But man that shit is annoying.
Leminator@lemmy.world
on 19 Aug 2023 03:12
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Let’s cut the crap: it’s not that they “realized” nobody wants it – it’s that they’ve come to accept the blowback against their reputation has gotten too big to outweigh the potential pros of preinstalled bloatware supporting their strategy.
Bartsbigbugbag@lemmy.world
on 19 Aug 2023 03:37
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Do you think titles like that are a result of a severely myopic mind, unable to even comprehend why a corporation would willingly do something that their users dislike, or just clickbait?
Tangent5280@lemmy.world
on 19 Aug 2023 05:03
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I think it’s a soft heading - they could be more honest and blunt, but a history of reporting like that may jeopardize any relationship they might have with Microsoft - with regards to press releases or advertising money and stuff like that.
I don’t find it plausible that the people at pcmag, who’s reported in this domain for a long time, can’t see past such light corporate fuckery.
martinmine@lemmy.world
on 19 Aug 2023 07:40
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The title suggests that Microsoft has come to a conclusion that nobody wants their inbox apps, which is not the case according to the contents of the article. This title would have been true if Microsoft had come with a statement saying that “according to user feedback blabla we have decided to add the uninstall option”. The reason might as well have been technical but this is yet to be disclosed. The term bloatware can also be seen as subjective as we normally define software that we personally don’t have any usage of as bloat, the fact that nobody will uses it is highly unlikely. So I would say that the title of this article is misleading and quite opinionated, most likely because the author is upset about the bloat in the Windows OS he is experiencing.
Intralexical@lemmy.world
on 20 Aug 2023 16:33
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Snarky anthropomorphization primarily serving clickbait and liability-limiting, I think, pretty clearly.
Really, the headline could just be “Microsoft To Allow Removing Preinstalled Apps”, or “Bloatware Apps will be Removable After Windows 11 Update”, or something like that. But the way they worded it lets them both sound more sarcastic to people who are pissed off by the scummy practice, and at the same time also sound plausibly less direct in calling Microsoft out.
ferralcat@monyet.cc
on 19 Aug 2023 07:49
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I mean, every OS out there beyond (maybe?) some hardcore Linux distros preinstalls this stuff though. Some (but not all) will let you remove it. None really make it “easy” or give you choices during install.
I think it’s just easier to treat all apps the same than special casing some and then having to install other hacks to get around the first ones for managed systems. It’s cheaper to treat them all the same.
LogarithmicCamel@feddit.uk
on 19 Aug 2023 09:20
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All Linux distros give you the choice of installing and uninstalling whatever you want.
riodoro1@lemmy.world
on 19 Aug 2023 10:03
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Yeah, but when you boot a linux machine the cpu goes down to 0% load after you log in and stays there.
Microsofts bloat runs in the background constantly. A windows laptop turns the fan on randomly when the lid was closed for a fucking day.
igorlogius@lemmy.world
on 19 Aug 2023 13:00
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come to accept
nah, they are just gonna install it with an update later
randon31415@lemmy.world
on 19 Aug 2023 03:26
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Windows 11 Pro, now with NOTHING installed. Windows 11 Pro plus, now with firefox pre-installed so you can clame your system never had edge on it!
hempster@lemm.ee
on 19 Aug 2023 04:38
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Eagerly waiting for Windows 11 LTSC in later half 2024
timkenhan@sopuli.xyz
on 19 Aug 2023 04:58
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Same here lol
Otherwise, Windows 10 LTSC would do
NathanielThomas@lemmy.world
on 19 Aug 2023 04:50
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The photos app on windows 11 is very good. It can read raw files and display them and has a pretty good auto-colour correct function. I wouldn’t uninstall it.
AnAngryAlpaca@feddit.de
on 19 Aug 2023 05:35
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Yeah, except it hangs when encountering some specific files via USB. It’s a known problem and they have not fixed it in 2 years or so.
owiseedoubleyou@lemmy.ml
on 19 Aug 2023 06:21
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It’s still inferior to Windows Photo Viewer imo
Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com
on 19 Aug 2023 07:42
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Windows 10 photo/image viewer sucks IMO, it can’t even preload images without bugging with the zoom, can’t even make a slideshow correctly lol.
owiseedoubleyou@lemmy.ml
on 19 Aug 2023 07:49
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When I say Windows Photo Viewer I mean the old Windows 7 one. The one in Windows 10/11 is Microsoft Photos
NathanielThomas@lemmy.world
on 19 Aug 2023 16:56
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Windows Photo Viewer isn’t on Windows 11, I think that was for previous O/S systems like 10?
Anyway, I think the default Windows 11 photos app is quite good like I said, as it’s able to preview my Nikon .NEF files without opening Adobe.
Wait: They are saying you can remove the Remote Desktop client? You mean the client you cannot use to connect to a Windows Home license because you cannot run remote desktop without a higher license?
Interesting flex there Microsoft.
havokdj@lemmy.world
on 19 Aug 2023 05:09
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arguing that you can’t use the client without the license for the server… on the same machine, is silly. There’s tons of utility with the client even if you don’t have the server license locally, especially if you ever use the Remote Desktop Client remotely.
Yeah, read what I am commenting on: Microsoft is letting you remove it. Seems like it is a handy item, certainly not as annoying as an ad or anything. And I also am commenting on how it is so useful, why do they ban the server from their home product?
This just seems like a really weird item to say: finally! you can remove the RDP client! Just like nobody ever asked for!
ebenixo@sh.itjust.works
on 19 Aug 2023 05:40
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It’s the integrated AI spying on you that is real concern
Can you point me in the direction of how disable truly all of it? I don’t want news/ads/recommendations in the start button, bottom bar, icon tray, search results etc.
Honytawk@lemmy.zip
on 19 Aug 2023 13:16
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Disabling all of those are standard settings in Windows 10 and 11.
Most are just right click on the icon/taskbar, opening settings and finding the setting that disables it.
ICastFist@programming.dev
on 19 Aug 2023 15:41
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Not entirely. There are many, many hidden telemetry settings that normal users can’t access. It’s why stuff like WPD (windows privacy dashboard) exist. Windows doesn’t let you uninstall most of that stuff either.
TechnoBabble@lemm.ee
on 19 Aug 2023 16:41
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WinAeroTweaker will let you decide what junk you want to disable.
1984@lemmy.today
on 19 Aug 2023 07:51
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So much drama. Anyone still using Windows must not dislike the behavior enough to switch.
I’ve used Linux for over 10 years now because I disliked this Microsoft culture even back then with Windows 8 or whatever it was back then. Why are people still using Windows today when Linux is easier than ever?
Windows 7 was a good OS, it tended to not spy on the user. You can see the difference in installation options if you put it into a virtual machine and run it. Compare with today’s windows.
Then compare Linux distros 10 years ago with current ones. Only gotten easier to use and much better looking.
echodot@feddit.uk
on 19 Aug 2023 08:43
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Because Windows just works. And yeah I need non-open source software shock horror and I dislike Linux’s “oh no your accidentally installing some proprietary software you silly billy don’t worry I’ve prevented it”.
But also it’s really not my choice if the program I want to install doesn’t actually work on Linux and does work on Windows then realistically I have to use Windows.
superkret@feddit.de
on 19 Aug 2023 08:48
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I dislike Linux’s “oh no your accidentally installing some proprietary software you silly billy don’t worry I’ve prevented it”.
OP is a silly billy and doesn’t know how to properly use Linux.
superkret@feddit.de
on 19 Aug 2023 09:27
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Still I don’t even know what OP is referring to. Did they install an FSF-endorsed distro?
Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de
on 19 Aug 2023 11:26
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That’s exactly the issue… you need to properly use it. Most people don’t, and can’t be bothered to when Windows is just pre-installed and mostly doing its job alright…
Yeah but of course but with Windows I don’t need a third party program to install things onto the OS.
When you actually think about it is bizarre why don’t they just let people install things.
LogarithmicCamel@feddit.uk
on 19 Aug 2023 09:14
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I don’t think you understand how Linux and software work. Windows software doesn’t work on Linux because it depends on other Windows software. Wine tries to supply these missing pieces. Linux isn’t stopping from doing anything.
Yes I do understand how Linux software works. I don’t like it, I’m allowed to understand it and still not like it. What’s with the gatekeeping?
I want my computer to just work I don’t want to have to mess around with it I don’t want to have to try and manage drivers and find versions of drivers that work with a particular operating system I just want to install the program and then use the program.
Windows offers me that. As does Mac accept it comes with a stupidly expensive computer.
Linux is just unnecessary busy work for people who like that kind of thing but I don’t really care about all of that stuff I care about using the programs not the underlying computer stuff. If you like that kind of thing great. But I just want the operating system in my case to get out of the way.
igorlogius@lemmy.world
on 19 Aug 2023 12:42
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i’d say if you gave linux a serious try again you would change your mind, but you dont seem to want that, so i’m just gonna wish you a nice day. Maybe just keep in mind the penguin will always welcome you back if you ever get fed up with the steady evolving windows bullshit.
As I said the programs I need to use do not work on Linux I’ve tried to get them to work on Linux and either they straight up won’t run, or they run with terrible performance even with Wine. So it was never really my choice to like Linux.
At that point I gave up and just went back to Windows because realistically I just don’t actually care that much. The point is if it isn’t easy to use out of the box 99% of people are just going to consider it not worthwhile.
Besides I would only end up remoting into a Windows computer anyway in order to get work stuff done, so it just seems like unnecessarily adding a layer of complexity. Just so I can go “screw you Microsoft”. It’s not like they’ll notice.
igorlogius@lemmy.world
on 19 Aug 2023 17:02
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The one where the library the program needed had to be required from source, and the source had dependencies not in the distro’s repo. Flatpacs might finally be solving this, but for some reason Linux folks still think bundling a few hundred kb of libraries and dependencies with the program is a big nono, so software install is really really hard for anything not in the repo, whereas on Windows it just works.
If you only need Firefox and VLC, Linux is great. If you use a wide variety of programs, expect most to either not work, or only be usable as the Windows version through Wine.
riodoro1@lemmy.world
on 19 Aug 2023 09:55
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Oh look, a person whos never used linux but complains
unionagainstdhmo@aussie.zone
on 19 Aug 2023 12:15
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It doesn’t as far as I know come pre installed at the store when you buy a computer.
AFAIK, there are stores and providers who have linux pre install options and there are even dedicated hardware supplies, who focus on linux ref. and
ref
I personally don’t find anything wrong with Windows
LaughingFox@lemmy.world
on 24 Aug 2023 03:18
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I don’t watch YouTube videos or click on those type of links, so I don’t know what you posted, but no Windows doesn’t bother me. It’s just normal to use it.
And cool if Linux is installed now on laptops at Best Buy, didn’t know that. But not many still, I’m sure.
igorlogius@lemmy.world
on 24 Aug 2023 07:23
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those type of links
I am a little confused. Would you be so kind and tell me which of the links i shared look suspicious to you?
cool if Linux is installed now on laptops at Best Buy, didn’t know that.
Yep, pretty nice.
LaughingFox@lemmy.world
on 25 Aug 2023 23:30
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None of them look suspicious… I just never watch YouTube. Unless it’s on my TV, I should say. Or unless I’m trying to fix the toilet, in which case I like the tutorials on how to fix things like that… I just can’t be bothered. I’d rather read the info. Call me a crazy GenX-er…
igorlogius@lemmy.world
on 26 Aug 2023 02:02
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stevedidWHAT@lemmy.world
on 19 Aug 2023 12:42
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Right because windows also continues to make things easier to use and does the bare minimum to maintain modern aesthetics and most people like it or not just don’t care about bloatware or telemetry. Simple as that
Windows user here, have used Linux here and there too:
Gaming. It’s gaming. Yes, Linux has workarounds and options, and some people are super knowledgeable and willing to go through those hoops. I’m not, not anymore.
I spent a little bit of time hunting down and eliminating W11’s annoying behaviors, and now I don’t mind it at all, and I get to just jump in games with very little hassle.
I’m pretty excited about the future of Linux gaming now that steam OS exists and Linux is a super viable target for developers, though
I’m sure they’re still available in the app store. They’re not magically gone and incompatible with the OS.
AtHeartEngineer@lemmy.world
on 19 Aug 2023 09:32
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What about one drive and edge?? Last time I had to do updates on the SOs computer I told her I’m switching her to Linux as soon as gaming just gets a little more stable (she plays halo infinite, which sometimes isn’t that polished on Linux)
riodoro1@lemmy.world
on 19 Aug 2023 09:54
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You cant remove edge because half of this nightmare bloat relies on it to function.
So you cant switch to Linux because you rely on a microsoft peoduct?
LightDelaBlue@lemmy.world
on 19 Aug 2023 10:18
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no shit.
fugepe@lemmy.world
on 19 Aug 2023 12:19
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Linux is miles better
TenTypekMatus@lemmy.world
on 19 Aug 2023 12:35
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Totally agree.
stevedidWHAT@lemmy.world
on 19 Aug 2023 12:39
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I guess you wanted to make a funny comment, but your computer forcibly rebooted for an update, eh?
whispering_depths@lemmy.world
on 19 Aug 2023 12:28
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more like they finally found a large source of revenue compared to their OS, so they can stop selling out… duh?
thattysonguy@lemmy.world
on 19 Aug 2023 12:51
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I don’t give a shit, I’ll use other programs to uninstall whatever I want.
Call me when I can use a vertical task bar. Until then, I’m sticking with win10.
spagnod@lemmy.world
on 19 Aug 2023 13:57
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linux intensifies
Never_Sm1le@lemdro.id
on 20 Aug 2023 08:04
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And the lucky thing is M$ cannot force windows 11 upgrade or drop windows 10 support for a long time.
HelixDab2@lemm.ee
on 19 Aug 2023 13:07
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Alternatively, you can get a copy of Win 10 LTSC that doesn’t have any bloatware pre-installed.
ultratiem@lemmy.ca
on 19 Aug 2023 14:09
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That cool. So stuck on a decade old OS.
Windows is a cancer y’all let run rampant while worrying about side loading, App Stores and removable batteries.
Meanwhile MS has doubled down on their monopoly, all the while going all in on the “Windows as service”, which as many of you have discovered, is about ads and telemetry over actual improvements to the core OS.
flips water bottle
HelixDab2@lemm.ee
on 19 Aug 2023 16:23
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I have to use Adobe Creative Suite for my job. By have to, I mean have to, because I get client files that are in proprietary formats, and my RIP software is only available for PC. It doesn’t matter if I would prefer going back to XP, or even 3.1; that’s simply not an option for me professionally.
Also, my work station doesn’t belong to me, and you can be that if I changed the OS to a linux distribution I’d be looking for a new job pretty goddamn fast.
mint_tamas@lemmy.world
on 20 Aug 2023 07:34
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Windows 10 is not a decade old, it had several major release that were not marketed as new versions because the “last version ever” craze was on.
You’re right; 8 years. And in 2025, support ends (aside from security patches) and the OS is retired.
🙃
mint_tamas@lemmy.world
on 21 Aug 2023 05:06
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Windows 11 was released in 2021. Like I said, Windows 10 had several major releases, so its age shouldn’t be counted from the first windows 10 (things like creators update, redstone update etc). Also, what kind of maintenance do you want besides security patches for Windows? Surely not some Cortana BS xbox game bar something something ad popup?
gamencode@infosec.pub
on 20 Aug 2023 06:20
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You can also select language English (World) and that also doesn’t have any bloat for what I’ve seen
Ragerist@lemmy.world
on 19 Aug 2023 15:05
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Realized?? They knew all the time, and didn’t give a shit.
It’s more likely that they have pushed too far, and users are pushing back. They will dial it back a bit, and hope people forget.
ICastFist@programming.dev
on 19 Aug 2023 15:36
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They’ll just wait until more people migrate to 11, then push their shit again, because then users won’t have as much energy to give M$ the finger
HerrBeter@lemmy.world
on 20 Aug 2023 06:03
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Yup 99,9% bait and switch
Crass_Spektakel@lemmy.world
on 19 Aug 2023 15:53
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Once I cared about preinstalled bloatware.
As long as it is inactive and small I stopped caring. The named apps together aren’t even 200MByte.
Gnubyte@lemdit.com
on 19 Aug 2023 16:34
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Mmm that’s not really realizing anything.
You know what sort of tom fuckery I had to get into to get my gaming laptop working? I had to find a sketchy windows 10 LTS IOT ISO, run some registry hack then find and install all my drivers just because the regular working consumer edition of windows is such a bag of bloat…
For hardware I paid for…! Next time I’m just going with system76 right out of the gate. I just kept reading reviews about things not working right or still being in development so I bought a mainstream laptop with a warranty.
A lot of linuxy or FOSS sort of stuff is still buggy despite being better than it was ten years ago. No one talks about it. Purism phone, pine phone, Linux gaming, the steam deck, etc. They all have major flaws or sometimes breaks in functionality. Where mainstream has breaks 1/10 even the best Linux setup has breaks 1/5 of the time minimum. And that’s great but it still sucks that you have to look elsewhere because mainstream is a monetization sponge in all senses of the phrase.
MaximumPower@lemmy.world
on 19 Aug 2023 17:07
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I use windows at work, and it’s the most annoying OS. so many small annoying behaviours that Microsoft will never fix. If it was a Linux dist I could fix those things, I can’t pull the source code for the windows window manager and change the stuff I don’t like. Linux gives me that freedom, and I love Freedom.
pixelscience@lemm.ee
on 19 Aug 2023 19:00
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I’m a CG artist and I dual boot Fedora on my workstation and run it on my file/license server. I’m very familiar with Linux and it’s great for a lot of things.
A ton of my software runs much better than on windows and I would stay in it if I could, but unfortunately I have software needs that don’t run on Linux and can’t work in a VM in full capacity.
austin@aussie.zone
on 20 Aug 2023 06:11
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MacBook / Linux Server combo is meta.
AEsheron@lemmy.world
on 20 Aug 2023 17:19
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I’m sorry, but “I dual boot Fedora,” has to be one of the most hipster/nechbeard sounding phrases I’ve ever heard. Not to besmorch your choice at all, just the way it sounds is hilarious.
I’m sorry, but “I dual boot Fedora,” has to be one of the most hipster/nechbeard sounding phrases I’ve ever heard.
First of all, if you want to insult someone, at least get the spelling right.
Secondly, there’s nothing “nechbeard”-y or hipstery sounding about it at all. It’s a tool. You use tools to do work.
If you want to assign some weird social construct to it to validate your own choices, that’s fine. Just keep those opinions to yourself because no one cares about them, and they make you look small.
AEsheron@lemmy.world
on 20 Aug 2023 18:32
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When I said I don’t besmirch the choice, I meant I didn’t think it was actually pretentious or obnoxiously awkward, etc. The phrasing just made it sound like a bit a tech-minded comedian would do to mock such people. I don’t think they are actually a hipster or a neckbeard, nechbeard, or neckbread, just that the wording was funny.
stebo02@sopuli.xyz
on 20 Aug 2023 06:01
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a beta build of Windows 11 in the Canary Channel includes the option for the first time to uninstall the Camera app, Cortana app, Photos app, People app, and the Remote Desktop client.
Still no Microsoft edge though…
simdlauper@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 20 Aug 2023 06:57
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No longer providing a browser with a consumer operating system is a bad idea. How would you install another browser?
They just need to stop plugging and advertising it so relentlessly.
stebo02@sopuli.xyz
on 20 Aug 2023 07:57
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Sure it’s okay they come with a browser, but you should be able to uninstall edge after you’ve downloaded another browser
viking@infosec.pub
on 20 Aug 2023 08:36
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That’s the Windows 95 lawsuit all over again. They forced internet explorer on people, got sued for creating & exploiting a monopoly, lost, and had to offer people the chance to remove it.
They claimed it’s integral part of the OS, and so were forced to un-integrate it.
I’m sure they will find a way to give users a choice to get rid of Edge, if they really wanted to were forced yet again.
IK I was just poking fun at windows, but the average user (a grandma or other non-tech literate person) won’t know it even exists, plus it doesn’t resolve the issue that, aside from a few maybe legal scripts, you can’t uninstall edge. Still a step in the good direction though.
No, the cli is just a wrapper around the microsoft store app
Intralexical@lemmy.world
on 20 Aug 2023 16:09
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Fun fact: Every Windows command line command actually just spams xdotool through the X11 server on WSL in order to do the equivalent action through the Windows GUI.
Excuse me, more info on this, some sources? Thank you very much for your time.
Intralexical@lemmy.world
on 20 Aug 2023 19:54
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Oh. Funny. I was actually wondering when I posted this if anyone would take me seriously— Though I was imagining my abusers pretending to take it seriously in bad faith in order to hurt my credibility, and then how I would then have to explain myself to well-meaning people who might just be less familiar with the Linux-side systems I mentioned.
I was joking. Saying cmd.exe uses WSL→X11→xdotool→GUI to operate is a bit like saying “Every Toyota is secretly powered by a tiny little Honda with a tiny little man driving on a treadmill that’s connected to the wheels under the hood”. (xdotool is basically just a keyboard and mouse macro thing— So maybe you can imagine how silly it would be if you typed in cd or ls/dir or whatever and it just took over control of your mouse and clicked on the “File Explorer” from the “Start Menu”.) It would be such an absurd and Frankensteinian design that I find the thought of it intrinsically funny.
uh ok. it was… strange indeed. Couldn’t wrap my head around that wsl… you really left me confused ah ah. also, I couldn’t catch all of the joke complexity in more than one glance ah ah. oh god, gotten really slow…
Intralexical@lemmy.world
on 20 Aug 2023 20:19
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Eh, don’t worry about it. I’m worryingly niche in the software I use, and it was a really niche joke and a bit of a stretch even for me.
austin@aussie.zone
on 20 Aug 2023 06:10
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I ignore them. Since January 2022 I’ve used exclusively macOS & Linux and you can’t go wrong with that. macOS for my daily driver work laptop (M1 MacBook Pro) and Arch Linux for my home server, though I do enjoy using it a lot for work and if this mac ever stops working I will definitely build a framework Linux laptop. Nothing comes close to FoSS, don’t have to put up with most of this proprietary business-oriented software.
ohlaph@lemmy.world
on 20 Aug 2023 08:05
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But do you use Arch?
figaro@lemdro.id
on 20 Aug 2023 08:11
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M1 MacBook. I’m using it right now. I have an ungodly number of tabs open in both Chrome and Edge. Photoshop is apparently open for some reason. Also steam and 5 other apps.
The thing is like 3 years old and doesn’t even stutter waking up. Idk what this thing is made of but I would genuinely believe it if they came out and said it’s alien technology.
I use Arch (btw) on my daily driver too, but I recently switched to Mint on my server. Too much of a hassle to constantly update on Arch. Though I do miss the AUR.
waffless@lemmy.world
on 20 Aug 2023 16:02
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soon we will have windows 11 but with ltsc levels of bloat. cannot come soon enough!
vandermouche@lemm.ee
on 20 Aug 2023 17:04
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Every two windows version is a disaster. 95 nice, 98 sucked, XP was great, vista was a flop, 7 wow, 8 eurk, 10 marvelous, 11 is shit… They don’t learn. But this time the goal is to make more money through adds, widgets and preinstalled bloatware.
AEsheron@lemmy.world
on 20 Aug 2023 17:15
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ME would like a word.
arashikage@lemmy.world
on 20 Aug 2023 17:51
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98 sucked, ME also sucked, 2000 wasn’t too bad, XP was excellent
blomkalsgratin@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 24 Aug 2023 09:45
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95 was middling just novel, OSR2 was actually good.
98 was ok, 98se was excellent
ME was a complete unmitigated disaster
2000 was excellent in all shapes
XP was horrid, SP2 was good
The rest about right but honestly i think it’s just that the second SP is when Windows gets good, not that every second one is good.
And there was no saving ME or 8…
archchan@lemmy.ml
on 20 Aug 2023 17:27
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They always knew. When the time comes they’ll force everything back with even more bloatware and even less freedom to choose because that’s the corpo way. This is just another long-term power grab.
Deftdrummer@lemmy.world
on 20 Aug 2023 19:06
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Yeah agreed. They’ve been pushing this (and losing) since the days of Windows phone. We don’t want the phone and we don’t want the apps.
Smacks@lemmy.world
on 20 Aug 2023 18:40
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threaded - newest
it’s crazy to think that you can’t just uninstall some apps in the first place even though it would be technologically possible
How is this company finding that out only just now lol
they try until they give up I think
every few reboots it asks me to install it and it’s really fucking annoying and I have a feeling I’m not going to have a choice at some point. my wife installed it accidentally and now she’s fucked. the thing fucking sucks.
I was wondering why I kept getting that on my work computer. I don’t mind windows 11, I think it looks nice. But man that shit is annoying.
it’s very annoying and in my opinion an extremely unethical way to market your product
Yeah I don’t trust one drive after I lost like a majority of my Sims 4 mods.
No she isn’t don’t be a drama queen
is it possible to revert back to Windows 10? I didn’t think it was
You can just reinstall windows.
Yeah they have a revert button
Yup, but only within 10 days of upgrade according to Microsofts guide below. I’m not sure if that’s changed over the last couple of years.
…microsoft.com/…/84a2416d-ccfb-4d87-9eee-e1056591…
looks like shit
Do you guys have kids by any chance? If so, that means MS is a mother fucker.
no i think children are disgusting
Let’s cut the crap: it’s not that they “realized” nobody wants it – it’s that they’ve come to accept the blowback against their reputation has gotten too big to outweigh the potential pros of preinstalled bloatware supporting their strategy.
Do you think titles like that are a result of a severely myopic mind, unable to even comprehend why a corporation would willingly do something that their users dislike, or just clickbait?
I think it’s a soft heading - they could be more honest and blunt, but a history of reporting like that may jeopardize any relationship they might have with Microsoft - with regards to press releases or advertising money and stuff like that.
I don’t find it plausible that the people at pcmag, who’s reported in this domain for a long time, can’t see past such light corporate fuckery.
The title suggests that Microsoft has come to a conclusion that nobody wants their inbox apps, which is not the case according to the contents of the article. This title would have been true if Microsoft had come with a statement saying that “according to user feedback blabla we have decided to add the uninstall option”. The reason might as well have been technical but this is yet to be disclosed. The term bloatware can also be seen as subjective as we normally define software that we personally don’t have any usage of as bloat, the fact that nobody will uses it is highly unlikely. So I would say that the title of this article is misleading and quite opinionated, most likely because the author is upset about the bloat in the Windows OS he is experiencing.
Snarky anthropomorphization primarily serving clickbait and liability-limiting, I think, pretty clearly.
Really, the headline could just be “Microsoft To Allow Removing Preinstalled Apps”, or “Bloatware Apps will be Removable After Windows 11 Update”, or something like that. But the way they worded it lets them both sound more sarcastic to people who are pissed off by the scummy practice, and at the same time also sound plausibly less direct in calling Microsoft out.
I mean, every OS out there beyond (maybe?) some hardcore Linux distros preinstalls this stuff though. Some (but not all) will let you remove it. None really make it “easy” or give you choices during install.
I think it’s just easier to treat all apps the same than special casing some and then having to install other hacks to get around the first ones for managed systems. It’s cheaper to treat them all the same.
All Linux distros give you the choice of installing and uninstalling whatever you want.
Yeah, but when you boot a linux machine the cpu goes down to 0% load after you log in and stays there. Microsofts bloat runs in the background constantly. A windows laptop turns the fan on randomly when the lid was closed for a fucking day.
nah, they are just gonna install it with an update later
Windows 11 Pro, now with NOTHING installed. Windows 11 Pro plus, now with firefox pre-installed so you can clame your system never had edge on it!
Eagerly waiting for Windows 11 LTSC in later half 2024
Same here lol
Otherwise, Windows 10 LTSC would do
The photos app on windows 11 is very good. It can read raw files and display them and has a pretty good auto-colour correct function. I wouldn’t uninstall it.
Yeah, except it hangs when encountering some specific files via USB. It’s a known problem and they have not fixed it in 2 years or so.
It’s still inferior to Windows Photo Viewer imo
Windows 10 photo/image viewer sucks IMO, it can’t even preload images without bugging with the zoom, can’t even make a slideshow correctly lol.
When I say Windows Photo Viewer I mean the old Windows 7 one. The one in Windows 10/11 is Microsoft Photos
Windows Photo Viewer isn’t on Windows 11, I think that was for previous O/S systems like 10?
Anyway, I think the default Windows 11 photos app is quite good like I said, as it’s able to preview my Nikon .NEF files without opening Adobe.
Wait: They are saying you can remove the Remote Desktop client? You mean the client you cannot use to connect to a Windows Home license because you cannot run remote desktop without a higher license?
Interesting flex there Microsoft.
Lmao
feels like a bit of a strawman.
arguing that you can’t use the client without the license for the server… on the same machine, is silly. There’s tons of utility with the client even if you don’t have the server license locally, especially if you ever use the Remote Desktop Client remotely.
Yeah, read what I am commenting on: Microsoft is letting you remove it. Seems like it is a handy item, certainly not as annoying as an ad or anything. And I also am commenting on how it is so useful, why do they ban the server from their home product?
This just seems like a really weird item to say: finally! you can remove the RDP client! Just like nobody ever asked for!
It’s the integrated AI spying on you that is real concern
#everythingisainow
Wake me when you can uninstall the Chat app without powershell (which I assume is a thing but don’t use Win11 so I don’t know)
I remember reading recently that they’ll be removing Teams integration so that should do it.
Is there a way to disable the ads, news and recommendations yet? Until then I’m not upgrading.
Tbf you can disable all of that so there is barely (if any) difference to win10 in regards to this.
Can you point me in the direction of how disable truly all of it? I don’t want news/ads/recommendations in the start button, bottom bar, icon tray, search results etc.
Disabling all of those are standard settings in Windows 10 and 11.
Most are just right click on the icon/taskbar, opening settings and finding the setting that disables it.
Not entirely. There are many, many hidden telemetry settings that normal users can’t access. It’s why stuff like WPD (windows privacy dashboard) exist. Windows doesn’t let you uninstall most of that stuff either.
WinAeroTweaker will let you decide what junk you want to disable.
So much drama. Anyone still using Windows must not dislike the behavior enough to switch.
I’ve used Linux for over 10 years now because I disliked this Microsoft culture even back then with Windows 8 or whatever it was back then. Why are people still using Windows today when Linux is easier than ever?
Windows 7 was a good OS, it tended to not spy on the user. You can see the difference in installation options if you put it into a virtual machine and run it. Compare with today’s windows.
Then compare Linux distros 10 years ago with current ones. Only gotten easier to use and much better looking.
Because Windows just works. And yeah I need non-open source software shock horror and I dislike Linux’s “oh no your accidentally installing some proprietary software you silly billy don’t worry I’ve prevented it”.
But also it’s really not my choice if the program I want to install doesn’t actually work on Linux and does work on Windows then realistically I have to use Windows.
Wat??
OP is a silly billy and doesn’t know how to properly use Linux.
Still I don’t even know what OP is referring to. Did they install an FSF-endorsed distro?
That’s exactly the issue… you need to properly use it. Most people don’t, and can’t be bothered to when Windows is just pre-installed and mostly doing its job alright…
Ever heard of wine?
Yeah but of course but with Windows I don’t need a third party program to install things onto the OS.
When you actually think about it is bizarre why don’t they just let people install things.
I don’t think you understand how Linux and software work. Windows software doesn’t work on Linux because it depends on other Windows software. Wine tries to supply these missing pieces. Linux isn’t stopping from doing anything.
Yes I do understand how Linux software works. I don’t like it, I’m allowed to understand it and still not like it. What’s with the gatekeeping?
I want my computer to just work I don’t want to have to mess around with it I don’t want to have to try and manage drivers and find versions of drivers that work with a particular operating system I just want to install the program and then use the program.
Windows offers me that. As does Mac accept it comes with a stupidly expensive computer.
Linux is just unnecessary busy work for people who like that kind of thing but I don’t really care about all of that stuff I care about using the programs not the underlying computer stuff. If you like that kind of thing great. But I just want the operating system in my case to get out of the way.
i’d say if you gave linux a serious try again you would change your mind, but you dont seem to want that, so i’m just gonna wish you a nice day. Maybe just keep in mind the penguin will always welcome you back if you ever get fed up with the steady evolving windows bullshit.
As I said the programs I need to use do not work on Linux I’ve tried to get them to work on Linux and either they straight up won’t run, or they run with terrible performance even with Wine. So it was never really my choice to like Linux.
At that point I gave up and just went back to Windows because realistically I just don’t actually care that much. The point is if it isn’t easy to use out of the box 99% of people are just going to consider it not worthwhile.
Besides I would only end up remoting into a Windows computer anyway in order to get work stuff done, so it just seems like unnecessarily adding a layer of complexity. Just so I can go “screw you Microsoft”. It’s not like they’ll notice.
Would you mind sharing which programs?
There’s WSL on windows, I don’t wanna say it’s the same thing as wine, but yeah, you may need other programs to install linux software on windows.
Linux never prevents you from installing anything. What distro was this and what happened? :)
The one where the library the program needed had to be required from source, and the source had dependencies not in the distro’s repo. Flatpacs might finally be solving this, but for some reason Linux folks still think bundling a few hundred kb of libraries and dependencies with the program is a big nono, so software install is really really hard for anything not in the repo, whereas on Windows it just works.
If you only need Firefox and VLC, Linux is great. If you use a wide variety of programs, expect most to either not work, or only be usable as the Windows version through Wine.
Oh look, a person whos never used linux but complains
Nearly fell off my chair laughing at that one
.
Because Linux is Niche. It doesn’t as far as I know come pre installed at the store when you buy a computer. Etc. That’s why people still use Windows.
I personally don’t find anything wrong with Windows. I use it for work and home and it’s fine.
*in the desktop market ( ref. )
AFAIK, there are stores and providers who have linux pre install options and there are even dedicated hardware supplies, who focus on linux ref. and ref
So stuff like this www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT4vDfA_4NI doenst bother you?
I don’t watch YouTube videos or click on those type of links, so I don’t know what you posted, but no Windows doesn’t bother me. It’s just normal to use it.
And cool if Linux is installed now on laptops at Best Buy, didn’t know that. But not many still, I’m sure.
I am a little confused. Would you be so kind and tell me which of the links i shared look suspicious to you?
Yep, pretty nice.
None of them look suspicious… I just never watch YouTube. Unless it’s on my TV, I should say. Or unless I’m trying to fix the toilet, in which case I like the tutorials on how to fix things like that… I just can’t be bothered. I’d rather read the info. Call me a crazy GenX-er…
ah, ok i guess i misunderstood you, sorry.
If you are still interested: www.summarize.tech/www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT4vDf… Might also help if other people share youtube links with you that you dont care to watch.
Have a nice day.
Right because windows also continues to make things easier to use and does the bare minimum to maintain modern aesthetics and most people like it or not just don’t care about bloatware or telemetry. Simple as that
Windows user here, have used Linux here and there too:
Gaming. It’s gaming. Yes, Linux has workarounds and options, and some people are super knowledgeable and willing to go through those hoops. I’m not, not anymore.
I spent a little bit of time hunting down and eliminating W11’s annoying behaviors, and now I don’t mind it at all, and I get to just jump in games with very little hassle.
I’m pretty excited about the future of Linux gaming now that steam OS exists and Linux is a super viable target for developers, though
You don’t need gaming, it’s a way to waste time.
You say, on social media :P
I use 3 of those regularly. Meanwhile stuff like the Xing app stay, of course.
I’m sure they’re still available in the app store. They’re not magically gone and incompatible with the OS.
What about one drive and edge?? Last time I had to do updates on the SOs computer I told her I’m switching her to Linux as soon as gaming just gets a little more stable (she plays halo infinite, which sometimes isn’t that polished on Linux)
You cant remove edge because half of this nightmare bloat relies on it to function.
So you cant switch to Linux because you rely on a microsoft peoduct?
no shit.
Linux is miles better
Totally agree.
Who
Linux
Asked?
You’re welcome
jUsT uSe lInUx
Classic stuff man thanks for the laugh
No one said “just use Linux”. OP said “Linux is better”. There’s a difference.
You can use whatever you want. Linux is better.
🙄 because surely you figured out a fool proof way of finding objective truths to subjective matters
Most of society I wager read it the same way I did, regardless of your childish pedantics.
It doesn’t matter how everyone would read it. Only what it literally says.
An Audi can be rated the best car of all time, but it doesn’t mean it’s useful for everyone
.
No no, you’re thinking of Linus. He’s the inventor of Linux. Linus Torvalds.
Lemme just compile a response to tbis real quick…
I guess you wanted to make a funny comment, but your computer forcibly rebooted for an update, eh?
more like they finally found a large source of revenue compared to their OS, so they can stop selling out… duh?
I don’t give a shit, I’ll use other programs to uninstall whatever I want.
Call me when I can use a vertical task bar. Until then, I’m sticking with win10.
linux intensifies
And the lucky thing is M$ cannot force windows 11 upgrade or drop windows 10 support for a long time.
Alternatively, you can get a copy of Win 10 LTSC that doesn’t have any bloatware pre-installed.
That cool. So stuck on a decade old OS.
Windows is a cancer y’all let run rampant while worrying about side loading, App Stores and removable batteries.
Meanwhile MS has doubled down on their monopoly, all the while going all in on the “Windows as service”, which as many of you have discovered, is about ads and telemetry over actual improvements to the core OS.
flips water bottle
I have to use Adobe Creative Suite for my job. By have to, I mean have to, because I get client files that are in proprietary formats, and my RIP software is only available for PC. It doesn’t matter if I would prefer going back to XP, or even 3.1; that’s simply not an option for me professionally.
Also, my work station doesn’t belong to me, and you can be that if I changed the OS to a linux distribution I’d be looking for a new job pretty goddamn fast.
Windows 10 is not a decade old, it had several major release that were not marketed as new versions because the “last version ever” craze was on.
You’re right; 8 years. And in 2025, support ends (aside from security patches) and the OS is retired.
🙃
Windows 11 was released in 2021. Like I said, Windows 10 had several major releases, so its age shouldn’t be counted from the first windows 10 (things like creators update, redstone update etc). Also, what kind of maintenance do you want besides security patches for Windows? Surely not some Cortana BS xbox game bar something something ad popup?
You can also select language English (World) and that also doesn’t have any bloat for what I’ve seen
Realized?? They knew all the time, and didn’t give a shit.
It’s more likely that they have pushed too far, and users are pushing back. They will dial it back a bit, and hope people forget.
They’ll just wait until more people migrate to 11, then push their shit again, because then users won’t have as much energy to give M$ the finger
Yup 99,9% bait and switch
Once I cared about preinstalled bloatware. As long as it is inactive and small I stopped caring. The named apps together aren’t even 200MByte.
Mmm that’s not really realizing anything.
You know what sort of tom fuckery I had to get into to get my gaming laptop working? I had to find a sketchy windows 10 LTS IOT ISO, run some registry hack then find and install all my drivers just because the regular working consumer edition of windows is such a bag of bloat…
For hardware I paid for…! Next time I’m just going with system76 right out of the gate. I just kept reading reviews about things not working right or still being in development so I bought a mainstream laptop with a warranty.
A lot of linuxy or FOSS sort of stuff is still buggy despite being better than it was ten years ago. No one talks about it. Purism phone, pine phone, Linux gaming, the steam deck, etc. They all have major flaws or sometimes breaks in functionality. Where mainstream has breaks 1/10 even the best Linux setup has breaks 1/5 of the time minimum. And that’s great but it still sucks that you have to look elsewhere because mainstream is a monetization sponge in all senses of the phrase.
I use windows at work, and it’s the most annoying OS. so many small annoying behaviours that Microsoft will never fix. If it was a Linux dist I could fix those things, I can’t pull the source code for the windows window manager and change the stuff I don’t like. Linux gives me that freedom, and I love Freedom.
I’m a CG artist and I dual boot Fedora on my workstation and run it on my file/license server. I’m very familiar with Linux and it’s great for a lot of things.
A ton of my software runs much better than on windows and I would stay in it if I could, but unfortunately I have software needs that don’t run on Linux and can’t work in a VM in full capacity.
MacBook / Linux Server combo is meta.
I’m sorry, but “I dual boot Fedora,” has to be one of the most hipster/nechbeard sounding phrases I’ve ever heard. Not to besmorch your choice at all, just the way it sounds is hilarious.
First of all, if you want to insult someone, at least get the spelling right.
Secondly, there’s nothing “nechbeard”-y or hipstery sounding about it at all. It’s a tool. You use tools to do work.
If you want to assign some weird social construct to it to validate your own choices, that’s fine. Just keep those opinions to yourself because no one cares about them, and they make you look small.
When I said I don’t besmirch the choice, I meant I didn’t think it was actually pretentious or obnoxiously awkward, etc. The phrasing just made it sound like a bit a tech-minded comedian would do to mock such people. I don’t think they are actually a hipster or a neckbeard, nechbeard, or neckbread, just that the wording was funny.
Still no Microsoft edge though…
No longer providing a browser with a consumer operating system is a bad idea. How would you install another browser?
They just need to stop plugging and advertising it so relentlessly.
Sure it’s okay they come with a browser, but you should be able to uninstall edge after you’ve downloaded another browser
That’s the Windows 95 lawsuit all over again. They forced internet explorer on people, got sued for creating & exploiting a monopoly, lost, and had to offer people the chance to remove it.
They claimed it’s integral part of the OS, and so were forced to un-integrate it.
I’m sure they will find a way to give users a choice to get rid of Edge, if they
really wanted towere forced yet again.The package manag- oh it’s windows right
It has built in package manager now (
winget install Mozilla.Firefoxwould install Firefox on clean Win11 installation).IK I was just poking fun at windows, but the average user (a grandma or other non-tech literate person) won’t know it even exists, plus it doesn’t resolve the issue that, aside from a few maybe legal scripts, you can’t uninstall edge. Still a step in the good direction though.
This is interesting news to me. I’ll have to poke around to see if Windows 10 got one too.
So YoU hAvE tO uSe ThE cOmManD lInE
No, the cli is just a wrapper around the microsoft store app
Fun fact: Every Windows command line command actually just spams
xdotoolthrough theX11server onWSLin order to do the equivalent action through the Windows GUI.Excuse me, more info on this, some sources? Thank you very much for your time.
Oh. Funny. I was actually wondering when I posted this if anyone would take me seriously—
Though I was imagining my abusers pretending to take it seriously in bad faith in order to hurt my credibility, and then how I would then have to explain myself to well-meaning people who might just be less familiar with the Linux-side systems I mentioned.I was joking. Saying
cmd.exeusesWSL→X11→xdotool→GUIto operate is a bit like saying “Every Toyota is secretly powered by a tiny little Honda with a tiny little man driving on a treadmill that’s connected to the wheels under the hood”. (xdotoolis basically just a keyboard and mouse macro thing— So maybe you can imagine how silly it would be if you typed incdorls/diror whatever and it just took over control of your mouse and clicked on the “File Explorer” from the “Start Menu”.) It would be such an absurd and Frankensteinian design that I find the thought of it intrinsically funny.Sorry for the misunderstanding.
uh ok. it was… strange indeed. Couldn’t wrap my head around that wsl… you really left me confused ah ah. also, I couldn’t catch all of the joke complexity in more than one glance ah ah. oh god, gotten really slow…
Eh, don’t worry about it. I’m worryingly niche in the software I use, and it was a really niche joke and a bit of a stretch even for me.
I ignore them. Since January 2022 I’ve used exclusively macOS & Linux and you can’t go wrong with that. macOS for my daily driver work laptop (M1 MacBook Pro) and Arch Linux for my home server, though I do enjoy using it a lot for work and if this mac ever stops working I will definitely build a framework Linux laptop. Nothing comes close to FoSS, don’t have to put up with most of this proprietary business-oriented software.
But do you use Arch?
M1 MacBook. I’m using it right now. I have an ungodly number of tabs open in both Chrome and Edge. Photoshop is apparently open for some reason. Also steam and 5 other apps.
The thing is like 3 years old and doesn’t even stutter waking up. Idk what this thing is made of but I would genuinely believe it if they came out and said it’s alien technology.
I use Arch (btw) on my daily driver too, but I recently switched to Mint on my server. Too much of a hassle to constantly update on Arch. Though I do miss the AUR.
soon we will have windows 11 but with ltsc levels of bloat. cannot come soon enough!
Every two windows version is a disaster. 95 nice, 98 sucked, XP was great, vista was a flop, 7 wow, 8 eurk, 10 marvelous, 11 is shit… They don’t learn. But this time the goal is to make more money through adds, widgets and preinstalled bloatware.
ME would like a word.
98 sucked, ME also sucked, 2000 wasn’t too bad, XP was excellent
95 was middling just novel, OSR2 was actually good. 98 was ok, 98se was excellent ME was a complete unmitigated disaster 2000 was excellent in all shapes XP was horrid, SP2 was good
The rest about right but honestly i think it’s just that the second SP is when Windows gets good, not that every second one is good.
And there was no saving ME or 8…
They always knew. When the time comes they’ll force everything back with even more bloatware and even less freedom to choose because that’s the corpo way. This is just another long-term power grab.
Yeah agreed. They’ve been pushing this (and losing) since the days of Windows phone. We don’t want the phone and we don’t want the apps.
They always knew
Nobody wants a smartphone-like function on an OS for pc/laptop. Also giving users back the control over would be nice looking at you defender.