alsu2launda@lemmy.world
on 10 Apr 2024 10:16
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😂😂😂.
American software is created by Jesus Christ.
tastysnacks@programming.dev
on 11 Apr 2024 07:18
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Damn immigrant
KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml
on 11 Apr 2024 16:26
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American software is created by some dude in Nebraska maintaining libg++ at no financial gain to him.
maynarkh@feddit.nl
on 10 Apr 2024 10:55
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Country in a trade war / cold war with another country decides to block imports of some product from said other country, citing fears of the product being poisoned. It’s barely news.
crazyCat@sh.itjust.works
on 10 Apr 2024 13:30
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It’s news worthy enough for a technology sublemmy, I’d think.
Yeah it is, and I’m happy about it being posted, it’s not that. I should be less sarcastic and more direct, I am just getting jaded. Thanks for pointing it out.
I guess what I am saying is more that of course the US is going to try to limit Russian influence and trade, just as Russia does as much as it can. Same with China and Tiktok and whatever.
It’s reasonable, it’s actually one of the more reasonable things the US does. There are a ton of people around here who cosplay as communists while rooting for fascist Putin who try to blow these things up as an attack on free trade or freedom of speech.
It’s not like Putin’s people literally wrote and published a book about how they want to do election interference using stuff like this.
crazyCat@sh.itjust.works
on 10 Apr 2024 13:59
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Also this is actually a pretty unique and interesting scenario. You ever seen a digital embargo of software from a single country imposed on citizens? Not to mention the dignity and rights violations on both sides…
HootinNHollerin@lemmy.world
on 10 Apr 2024 14:47
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Good luck
Kata1yst@kbin.social
on 10 Apr 2024 23:44
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You found one video supporting your viewpoint. Kaspersky's role in Russian intelligence has been an open secret since the mid 2010s. This is Facebook Anti-Vaxxer "research" methodology.
rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
on 11 Apr 2024 06:32
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Not that it was a secret at any point. That company has that approach to advertising and PR reminiscent of hacker movies as normies, lamers and “Windows power users” perceive them. Usually when there’s bullshit in one part, you expect it to be there in other parts too.
But - their “antivirus check tool” or something was very convenient for me to remove winlockers somewhere in 2007. I do remember the good things.
The guy ho made the video works as data analyst, plus Kaspersky works perfectly as antivirus.
Can you gave me evidence supporting your claim?
KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml
on 11 Apr 2024 16:23
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Kaspersky was actually good a long time ago, but there was a shakeup and the FSB started to get more involved in their operations somehow. Its not safe now, is what i’m saying.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 10 Apr 2024 14:59
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I’m not sure how that’s relevant. People should be free to use whatever they want. I’m not interested in Russian software, but that doesn’t mean banning it is okay. The same goes for Chinese software like TikTok (not touching that), Iranian software, or North Korean software, if that’s even a thing. I don’t care if literal Nazis made the software, people should be free to use what they want.
The only areas the government should get involved are:
government owned devices
public advisories
prosecution of crimes where the software is involved
The software I choose to use is not the government’s business. If I violate a law, charge me with a crime, but don’t preemptively ban stuff.
Plastic_Ramses@lemmy.world
on 10 Apr 2024 19:59
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What if said software is being used to manipulate national interests from a civilian level and its owned by an adverserial nation?
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 10 Apr 2024 23:36
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That’s one of the costs of liberty. The government will need to find another way.
The barrier to banning something in the interests of national security must be much higher than “this could be used by our enemies.” That’s the entire basis for the War on a Terror, the Patriot Act, and the NSA spying on Americans, and I won’t stand for it. It’s also the same idea as banning books, that’s just not how a free society works.
You combat misinformation through integrity and transparency, not bans.
RidcullyTheBrown@lemmy.world
on 11 Apr 2024 08:02
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That’s one of the costs of liberty. The government will need to find another way.
No, that’s not liberty. If the average user would have any way of detecting when software is doing nefarious thighs, then sure, you’d be right, but the average user can’t possibly know that software is misbehaving just like they couldn’t have possibly known that asbestos or lead was bad for them. Software is opaque. As long as it remains opaque, consumers are unsuspecting victims and need help.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 11 Apr 2024 08:28
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average user can’t possibly know
Hence the information campaign to make people aware.
Look at cigarettes, they are harmful and therefore have a strong information campaign to inform the public. I highly doubt you’ll find anyone today who isn’t aware of the dangers of smoking, but just 100 years ago, it was considered classy and largely innocuous. The difference was a big information campaign to counter the tobacco lobby’s attempts to spin smoking as somehow healthy.
The government’s role should be to make opaque things transparent, not to bad things that could be harmful. At the same time, they can spy on other countries to get an idea of what types of control they can exert, which would help them better inform the public.
But at the end of the day, it’s up to the individual what they choose to believe. Liberty is having the freedom to make poor choices, and to live with the consequences. The government’s role should be to earn our trust, but they violate it at every opportunity in the name of “security” (NSA, TSA, etc). Yes, a lot of people will ignore it, and that’s a part of having liberty.
RidcullyTheBrown@lemmy.world
on 11 Apr 2024 08:57
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Hence the information campaign to make people aware.
There are still those who think the lunar landing didn’t happen so this is not a valid option for something that might pose an immediate danger to society.
But at the end of the day, it’s up to the individual what they choose to believe. Liberty is having the freedom to make poor choices, and to live with the consequences.
Government backed malicious software is not just dangerous to the user, it’s a societal level threat. And unlike smoking, which is banned wherever it poses a danger to more than just the smoker, there isn’t a way to restrict usage in a way in which it only affects the user.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 11 Apr 2024 14:12
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immediate danger to society
But what exactly is the definition of that?
For example, which of these meet that definition:
an antivirus that ignores viruses from the county of origin
a social media app that collects data from a device and sends it home
a social media app that likely promotes content with a specific political agenda the government doesn’t like
an app that hides monetary transaction details, which is commonly used by terrorists and other criminals
a social media app that doesn’t id users and allows criminals to use it to communicate
The first two are probably the initial targets, but a law enforcement agency could make a decent case for the rest. Where does it stop?
That’s why I think we need a hard limit on government authority here. It’s better for some bad stuff to propagate than for the scope of what’s blocked to expand and effectively limit freedoms of speech, association, press, etc.
Government have a lot of tools at their disposal, I honestly don’t think banning software needs to be one of them.
RidcullyTheBrown@lemmy.world
on 11 Apr 2024 15:12
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There is no way you of knowing what closed software does, especially software such as Kaspersky. Any piece of software can act as a backdoor for total control of all your devices and network. And when that software has the power of a state like Russia or China behind it, it can gain access to all sorts of secrets it shouldn’t have access to and can be used to corrupt people, compromise entire corporate level security systems and entire state level security systems.
Government have a lot of tools at their disposal, I honestly don’t think banning software needs to be one of them.
I really don’t understand why this is where you think the line should be drawn. Countries routinely decide to stop trading with various other countries for multiple reasons. For example, Russia is already under an embargo, why should software of all things be left free. Software is one of the least controllable goods that can be traded across borders.
effectively limit freedoms of speech, association, press, etc.
Since when do you have the freedom to associate with non-US citizens? Do you even understand what this is about!
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 11 Apr 2024 19:30
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There is no way you of knowing what closed software does
Sure, and that’s why I very much prefer FOSS and avoid nonsense like Kaspersky. I also actively tell everyone I know to prefer FOSS.
Countries routinely decide to stop trading with various other countries for multiple reasons
I’m also against that, generally speaking. I think open trade promotes freedom and therefore democracy, and blocking trade just encourages more authoritarianism. I have yet to see a case where it actually impacts the leadership enough to matter, especially when it comes to larger countries like Russia.
Since when do you have the freedom to associate with non-US citizens?
Why wouldn’t I? If they have the freedom to associate with me, I should have the freedom to associate with them.
RidcullyTheBrown@lemmy.world
on 12 Apr 2024 11:05
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Why wouldn’t I? If they have the freedom to associate with me, I should have the freedom to associate with them.
That’s a very very big “if” considering US’ foreign policy. An “if” that translates to you not actually having this freedom.
I very much prefer FOSS and avoid nonsense like Kaspersky. I also actively tell everyone I know to prefer FOSS.
How noble of you, but what do you suggest we do about people who aren’t reached by your words of wisdom?
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 12 Apr 2024 14:07
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An “if” that translates to you not actually having this freedom.
I’m not sure what your point is. Someone not having the freedom to associate with me doesn’t limit my freedom of association. Someone else being locked away in jail doesn’t mean I’m in jail just because I can’t freely associate with them.
We should be pushing to remove barriers to association, not responding in kind. And yes, that includes changing our foreign policy.
what do you suggest
As I mentioned, the government should raise awareness around the issues of proprietary software, especially software originating from adversarial countries. Don’t raise FUD, but instead fund research into these software products. Get researchers onto platforms where they can reach a wide audience, like late night talk shows, popular YouTube and similar channels, etc.
For individuals, promote and donate to organizations like Mozilla, the EFF, and Proton that push for open software and privacy. Use those services and recommend them to your friends and family.
If you ban something, you just get the Streisand effect and erode trust. If something is dangerous, the best strategy is to be completely transparent about why and provide information that can be independently verified.
RidcullyTheBrown@lemmy.world
on 12 Apr 2024 17:27
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Someone not having the freedom to associate with me doesn’t limit my freedom of association.
US visas & other things make it so that otherwise free people cannot do business in US or even enter the US. This means that, by definition, your state prevents you from associating with them.
the government should raise awareness around the issues of proprietary software
But this doesn’t remove the threat at all. Look at tiktok, governments have been raising awareness about it and flagging it as a national security concern and yet the user count is growing.
There are things where raising awareness makes sense, e.g. alcohol consumption, smoking, etc. There are other cases where state intervention is required, e.g. working with asbestos, led, mercury, etc. Software falls in the latter category, because, like I said, it’s not just a matter of personal choice. S
If you ban something, you just get the Streisand effect and erode trust.
I really doubt that banning Karspersky would have the effect of more people using Kaspersky. That’s silly.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 13 Apr 2024 07:29
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US visas & other things
I agree, and I’m absolutely in favor of dramatically relaxing our immigration policy. If I could snap my fingers, I’d double immigration quotas and guarantee visa renewal for anyone here legally who has not been convicted of a crime. I work with some wonderful immigrants, and I think we need more.
That said, my freedom of association isn’t being limited with poor immigration policy, I can still collaborate with them online, share software with them, etc. The only limitation is physical proximity. That’s an issue, but I don’t see it as an abridgement of my freedom of association in at all the same way as banning software.
yet the user count is growing
Then the people have spoken. They prefer whatever that app provides over national security.
The government should step up the awareness campaign and find legitimate issues to substantiate the guidance to avoid it.
But I do not consent to the government banning any form of media.
Software falls in the latter category, because, like I said, it’s not just a matter of personal choice
What’s special about software? The defense here is proper security practices at all levels. The main risks are:
botnets - ISPs should shut that down
worms - proper security
identity theft - insurance and criminal prosecution
Honestly, if governments pressured computer vendors to properly sandbox applications, we’d have far fewer problems. That’s where the awareness campaign would do wonders, naming and shaming when vendors cut corners on security.
I really doubt that banning Karspersky would have the effect of more people using Kaspersky.
Maybe not, I don’t think people have a real sense of loyalty to their antivirus.
But I think it could totally be a thing for TikTok.
RidcullyTheBrown@lemmy.world
on 13 Apr 2024 21:42
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Then the people have spoken. They prefer whatever that app provides over national security.
You should read about the tyranny of majority.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 13 Apr 2024 22:34
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I’m quite familiar with it.
But think of it this way. The majority is often poorly informed and will likely agree to some group making decisions on their behalf. That group is not necessarily subject to the will of the people and instead operates in its own bureaucracy where “security” is preferred over other priorities the people may have. Look at the TSA, they have been blinded by a pursuit of the appearance of security that they have gone well past the effective controls necessary to provide reasonable security to likely threats (e.g. bullet proof cockpit doors), and have failed to actually prevent things their tools are designed to detect.
The majority want safety, and a government agency wants to maintain relevance. Solving the problem by granting the government more power will devolve into the agency looking for more reasons to stay relevant and keep its funding. There’s plenty of examples of that, so it’s not an unfounded slippery slope argument.
So instead of the majority blindly handing over their responsibilities to a third party, we should instead teach the majority to avoid the worst of it. And then we can use the agencies we already have to gather information about potential threats and shut them down through other means (e.g. instead of banning potentially harmful apps, they could sue the app makers for actual damages).
RidcullyTheBrown@lemmy.world
on 14 Apr 2024 12:27
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through other means (e.g. instead of banning potentially harmful apps, they could sue the app makers for actual damages).
but that’s just the point, isn’t it? There are no means of obtaining compensation from an adversarial state or its companies and the damage caused might be irreparable. The discussion is not about countries that US has strong ties with. This is foreign policy. And just like your fundamental US granted rights are not guaranteed outside the US borders, nor should adversaries enjoy the same rights in the US. Since the country in question, Russia, makes no commitment to observing any US laws and since there is no way of coercing it or punishing it when it doesn’t, why should US citizens be exposed to this?
And by the way, I think there’s another piece of info that you’re missing. Software bans are not the same as other bans. Banning Kaspersky, for example, just means that the company cannot officially trade and advertise their products in the US. But there is no way of preventing users from using those products(unfortunately).
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 14 Apr 2024 17:01
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There are no means of obtaining compensation from an adversarial state or its companies
If they do business here, they are subject to our laws. TikTok, for example, does have an entity here, so they would be subject to our laws. I don’t know about Kaspersky though.
why should US citizens be exposed to this?
Because they choose to. Restricting that is a restriction on US citizens’ freedom of association.
Banning Kaspersky, for example, just means that the company cannot officially trade and advertise their products in the US
It goes further than that, it also restricts companies like Google and Apple from including them in their app stores. And for something like Apple, that effectively means users cannot install the app on their device because Apple does not allow other app stores.
I may reconsider if there were no practical limits on what users can do with their devices. Any restrictions should purely be on the companies offering the service, and it should never be illegal for me to use a given piece of software, even if it’s on the government’s “do not trade” list or whatever. What I do with that software may be illegal, but merely possessing and using it without violating other laws should never be illegal.
I also don’t think it should be illegal for any app store to distribute and process payment for a given piece of software, though perhaps it could be illegal to promote it. Otherwise, that’s a restriction on the freedom of the app store as well.
KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml
on 11 Apr 2024 16:27
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The cost of liberty and freedom is eternal vigilance from those who want to harm us, and those who claim to protect us.
Banning software is not the same as banning books, lol. Books are passive ideas, software is active and can be used for espionage. You’re creating a false equivalence here.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 11 Apr 2024 13:48
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They’re absolutely in the same category.
If the government can ban things in the name of “national security” based on little more than “it’s potentially dangerous,” what’s stopping them from labeling any platform that doesn’t censor information the way they want as “dangerous” and subject to bans?
The government doesn’t get to choose what I run on my computers, nor do they get to choose what books I read, what movies I watch, etc.
Oh yeah, the fallacious slippery slope again. How creative and intellectual!
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 13 Apr 2024 07:14
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If there’s anything it applies to, it’s government overreach. Look at how the TSA expanded its violation of personal privacy in the name of “security,” or how the NSA and FBI have expanded surveillance of individuals. Look at the militarization of police.
Once you let the government ban a handful of apps, it’s going to use that new power more frequently. That’s what bureaucrats do, when you give them a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
There are so many examples of government getting its foot in the door and steadily expanding its control. That’s what it does.
ATDA@lemmy.world
on 10 Apr 2024 23:59
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You do just as you did. Tell people and let them make up their minds. Posts like yours convinced me in the past and it will others in the future
.
Harbinger01173430@lemmy.world
on 11 Apr 2024 12:42
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I’d still use it if my friends and most of the people I know do
tacosanonymous@lemm.ee
on 10 Apr 2024 13:24
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You’d think the fact that Kaspersky is useless would be enough to keep people from using it.
Contend6248@feddit.de
on 10 Apr 2024 14:32
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It’s not useless for brainless users sadly
CluelessDude@lemmy.zip
on 10 Apr 2024 20:36
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You would think that but I have a Friend that bought the paid version and swears by it, he had more than enough problems with it blocking everything it wants, I don’t say anything anymore I just shake my head and move on.
mansfield@lemmy.world
on 10 Apr 2024 13:48
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Kaspersky is just one piece of software to avoid. Others include:
Telegram
Avast AV
Anything from 360 Safe / Qihoo 360
Opera browser … now owned by above
Zoom
FileZilla / UTorrent / other PUA that bundles adware and acts essentially as a trojan
Speculater@lemmy.world
on 10 Apr 2024 14:09
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Ah fuck, what’s the alternative to FileZilla?! I’ve been using that for like 17 years.
mansfield@lemmy.world
on 10 Apr 2024 14:22
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So just to illustrate, I went to the normal FileZilla download page and downloaded the Win64 package. Then I submitted it to VirusTotal.
Contend6248@feddit.de
on 10 Apr 2024 14:31
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Dolphin on KDE/Linux and WinSCP on Windows
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 10 Apr 2024 15:10
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I think whatever GNOME calls their file browser supports FTP as well.
Contend6248@feddit.de
on 11 Apr 2024 05:02
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It surely does, but i’m not sure if you can switch to side-by-side view
AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world
on 11 Apr 2024 11:09
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Then use the kde file browse.
atthecoast@feddit.nl
on 10 Apr 2024 21:20
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Cyberduck
NaoPb@eviltoast.org
on 11 Apr 2024 01:36
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Same here.
CrossFTP seems promising. Also has the multi OS support.
cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca
on 11 Apr 2024 05:01
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Winscp?
Apalacrypto@lemmy.world
on 10 Apr 2024 15:05
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Out of curiosity, why Telegram? (Im out of the loop on this one)
As for uTorrent, I’ve got version 2.2.1 and have never allowed it to update in the last decade or however long it’s been. I think that was the last version that didn’t allow any ads or otherwise and was simply a solid p2p client at the time.
cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca
on 11 Apr 2024 05:10
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I never cared about discord so I don’t know, but I’d assume so, yes.
rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
on 11 Apr 2024 06:29
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Because it’s less (because of history stored on server and use of OTR being problematic) secure than ICQ in year 2003, prone to phishing and, yes, made by people I wouldn’t trust.
ShadowCat@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 11 Apr 2024 16:10
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may I ask why didn’t you just switch to qbittorrent? is there a feature that utorrent has but qbit doesn’t?
Apalacrypto@lemmy.world
on 12 Apr 2024 02:53
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Never needed to or even thought about it. uTorrent never gave me any issues and was super lightweight. Additionally, there was a fansubbed anime site I was a member of for a long time that had a limited whitelist of p2p clients last they would allow their trackers to function on. uT 2.2.1 was one of those.
That pc seldom gets used anymore nowadays anyway, as my main pc is running OpenSuse and ktorrent does all I need it to.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 10 Apr 2024 15:09
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Add in:
TikTok
Facebook, Instagram, Whatsapp, and Threads
Reddit :)
For antivirus, Microsoft’s built-in one is fine. Ideally use an OS that has better security and lower default permissions like popular Linux distros (at the very least, it’s a smaller target than Windows). I haven’t checked recently, but using Malware Bytes for occasional runs (not as active protection though) was good and is probably still good.
But in general, use FOSS, at the very least they’ll probably not pull a Reddit and screw over their users.
A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world
on 11 Apr 2024 01:03
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Seriously. Windows Defender is an excellent piece of software, and its all you need. Paying for anything else is kinda foolish.
If you’re on windows, you dont need anything else except maybe to install malware bytes once a month, run the scan, and uninstall it.
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world
on 11 Apr 2024 11:45
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This is Lemmy. Chances of people here not using Windows is relatively high.
A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world
on 11 Apr 2024 12:28
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You know what they say about assuming things.
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world
on 11 Apr 2024 12:30
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I would say that the fact that I used the word ‘chances’ would suggest I wasn’t assuming anything.
I would also suggest that the very large Linux communities would support my non-assumption.
A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world
on 11 Apr 2024 14:08
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Oh, so its like a card game
“I say Chance! and nullify your Astral Assumption card!”
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world
on 11 Apr 2024 14:58
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No? It’s like a guess. You’ve heard of guesses before, right?
SquirtleHermit@lemmy.world
on 11 Apr 2024 13:56
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Yeah, always make assumptions. They make conversations faster.
istanbullu@lemmy.ml
on 10 Apr 2024 16:41
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Telegram is better than WhatsApp. At least it has a decent Linux client, and all clients are open source. WhatsApp has neither.
SpaceMan9000@lemmy.world
on 11 Apr 2024 06:24
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Unless you’re constantly using secret chats all your data is stored in plain text… This is actually worse than WhatsApp
rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
on 11 Apr 2024 06:26
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You got an answer why it’s not.
Suffocate9920@lemmy.world
on 11 Apr 2024 06:56
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Maybe better client and more features. But Russians have full access to servers and messages. They could read whatever they want. It’s a fact that proved during war that Russia started in Ukraine.
This is nonsense. The Founders of Telegram are exiles from Russia.
NaoPb@eviltoast.org
on 11 Apr 2024 01:28
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I’d say avoid AVG too then since it’s basically Avast.
Duamerthrax@lemmy.world
on 11 Apr 2024 17:30
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I don’t even use antivirus software anymore. Previously, every time I found a new one recommended by security experts I thought I could trust, about a year later, it turned to shit or was relieved to always having been shit. Now I just backup my stuff and vet any executable. I don’t do any serious work on my Windows install anyway, so nuking it isn’t a problem.
KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml
on 11 Apr 2024 16:22
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Just don’t use it for secure comms and anything tangentially connected for what you consider “secure” matters. Simple as.
Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg
on 11 Apr 2024 12:32
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This just feels like a random hit list; how did you come up with it?
Why zoom? It’s based out of San Francisco.
I also object to the Telegram inclusion. Unless you want to include Discord, and various other server side encrypted communication apps. The founders may be Russians by birth but they have Ukrainian roots, are no longer Russian citizens, had their first company stolen from them by the Kremlin, etc. Also I always like to note, Einstein was a German by birth but he was no Nazi.
What’s the FileZilla connection? Tim Kosse (which as far as I can tell it’s still the primary author) is a German.
Ross_audio@lemmy.world
on 11 Apr 2024 13:47
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Honestly, Zoom just has a hilariously high frequency of vulnerabilities being discovered.
Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg
on 11 Apr 2024 14:17
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I mean… That’s fair, I don’t recommend zoom, but those reasons have nothing to do with Russia and everything to do with a company that was willing to lie that they had E2EE and didn’t.
mansfield@lemmy.world
on 11 Apr 2024 16:31
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This very partial list is based on my being in cyber security for 20 years and working a variety of incidents involving these apps. You all can do whatever you want with your computers.
magnusrufus@lemmy.world
on 11 Apr 2024 18:08
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That you didn’t give a helpful answer makes me doubt you where as before I was interested in what you had to say.
Harbinger01173430@lemmy.world
on 11 Apr 2024 12:39
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FBI on its way to arrest me because I used MPC-BE to play dolby digital content without a license for the ac3 codec like 10 years ago lol
spyd3r@sh.itjust.works
on 12 Apr 2024 20:54
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They can pry MPC-BE from my warm cheeze curl stained hands! I’ve been using it to play 4K BluRays on an HTPC, and to decode all these new proprietary surround sound codecs so I don’t need to buy a new expensive ass AVR.
splonglo@lemmy.world
on 11 Apr 2024 16:24
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Russia has computers???
sepulcher@lemmy.ca
on 11 Apr 2024 17:56
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If American really cared about security, they would use free software.
gallopingsnail@lemmy.sdf.org
on 11 Apr 2024 18:45
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If anyone cared about security, they would use free software.
threaded - newest
😂😂😂.
American software is created by Jesus Christ.
Damn immigrant
American software is created by some dude in Nebraska maintaining libg++ at no financial gain to him.
Country in a trade war / cold war with another country decides to block imports of some product from said other country, citing fears of the product being poisoned. It’s barely news.
It’s news worthy enough for a technology sublemmy, I’d think.
Yeah it is, and I’m happy about it being posted, it’s not that. I should be less sarcastic and more direct, I am just getting jaded. Thanks for pointing it out.
I guess what I am saying is more that of course the US is going to try to limit Russian influence and trade, just as Russia does as much as it can. Same with China and Tiktok and whatever.
It’s reasonable, it’s actually one of the more reasonable things the US does. There are a ton of people around here who cosplay as communists while rooting for fascist Putin who try to blow these things up as an attack on free trade or freedom of speech.
It’s not like Putin’s people literally wrote and published a book about how they want to do election interference using stuff like this.
Cool cool, agreed.
It’s news. That’s all that matters.
Also this is actually a pretty unique and interesting scenario. You ever seen a digital embargo of software from a single country imposed on citizens? Not to mention the dignity and rights violations on both sides…
Yes, I’ve seen digital embargoes preventing companies in other countries doing business in mine, because their legal environment differs from ours.
Google Analytics got banned in several European countries comes to mind. I remember some small blogs writing about that, not much else.
I mean, regardless of semantics about whether it’s new to us or not, that’s still news.
Why would anyone trust, want to use, and yet alone pay for Russian antivirus software
Because it’s a good antivirus
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
antivirus
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Good luck
You found one video supporting your viewpoint. Kaspersky's role in Russian intelligence has been an open secret since the mid 2010s. This is Facebook Anti-Vaxxer "research" methodology.
Not that it was a secret at any point. That company has that approach to advertising and PR reminiscent of hacker movies as normies, lamers and “Windows power users” perceive them. Usually when there’s bullshit in one part, you expect it to be there in other parts too.
But - their “antivirus check tool” or something was very convenient for me to remove winlockers somewhere in 2007. I do remember the good things.
The guy ho made the video works as data analyst, plus Kaspersky works perfectly as antivirus. Can you gave me evidence supporting your claim?
Kaspersky was actually good a long time ago, but there was a shakeup and the FSB started to get more involved in their operations somehow. Its not safe now, is what i’m saying.
I’m not sure how that’s relevant. People should be free to use whatever they want. I’m not interested in Russian software, but that doesn’t mean banning it is okay. The same goes for Chinese software like TikTok (not touching that), Iranian software, or North Korean software, if that’s even a thing. I don’t care if literal Nazis made the software, people should be free to use what they want.
The only areas the government should get involved are:
The software I choose to use is not the government’s business. If I violate a law, charge me with a crime, but don’t preemptively ban stuff.
What if said software is being used to manipulate national interests from a civilian level and its owned by an adverserial nation?
That’s one of the costs of liberty. The government will need to find another way.
The barrier to banning something in the interests of national security must be much higher than “this could be used by our enemies.” That’s the entire basis for the War on a Terror, the Patriot Act, and the NSA spying on Americans, and I won’t stand for it. It’s also the same idea as banning books, that’s just not how a free society works.
You combat misinformation through integrity and transparency, not bans.
No, that’s not liberty. If the average user would have any way of detecting when software is doing nefarious thighs, then sure, you’d be right, but the average user can’t possibly know that software is misbehaving just like they couldn’t have possibly known that asbestos or lead was bad for them. Software is opaque. As long as it remains opaque, consumers are unsuspecting victims and need help.
Hence the information campaign to make people aware.
Look at cigarettes, they are harmful and therefore have a strong information campaign to inform the public. I highly doubt you’ll find anyone today who isn’t aware of the dangers of smoking, but just 100 years ago, it was considered classy and largely innocuous. The difference was a big information campaign to counter the tobacco lobby’s attempts to spin smoking as somehow healthy.
The government’s role should be to make opaque things transparent, not to bad things that could be harmful. At the same time, they can spy on other countries to get an idea of what types of control they can exert, which would help them better inform the public.
But at the end of the day, it’s up to the individual what they choose to believe. Liberty is having the freedom to make poor choices, and to live with the consequences. The government’s role should be to earn our trust, but they violate it at every opportunity in the name of “security” (NSA, TSA, etc). Yes, a lot of people will ignore it, and that’s a part of having liberty.
There are still those who think the lunar landing didn’t happen so this is not a valid option for something that might pose an immediate danger to society.
Government backed malicious software is not just dangerous to the user, it’s a societal level threat. And unlike smoking, which is banned wherever it poses a danger to more than just the smoker, there isn’t a way to restrict usage in a way in which it only affects the user.
But what exactly is the definition of that?
For example, which of these meet that definition:
The first two are probably the initial targets, but a law enforcement agency could make a decent case for the rest. Where does it stop?
That’s why I think we need a hard limit on government authority here. It’s better for some bad stuff to propagate than for the scope of what’s blocked to expand and effectively limit freedoms of speech, association, press, etc.
Government have a lot of tools at their disposal, I honestly don’t think banning software needs to be one of them.
There is no way you of knowing what closed software does, especially software such as Kaspersky. Any piece of software can act as a backdoor for total control of all your devices and network. And when that software has the power of a state like Russia or China behind it, it can gain access to all sorts of secrets it shouldn’t have access to and can be used to corrupt people, compromise entire corporate level security systems and entire state level security systems.
I really don’t understand why this is where you think the line should be drawn. Countries routinely decide to stop trading with various other countries for multiple reasons. For example, Russia is already under an embargo, why should software of all things be left free. Software is one of the least controllable goods that can be traded across borders.
Since when do you have the freedom to associate with non-US citizens? Do you even understand what this is about!
Sure, and that’s why I very much prefer FOSS and avoid nonsense like Kaspersky. I also actively tell everyone I know to prefer FOSS.
I’m also against that, generally speaking. I think open trade promotes freedom and therefore democracy, and blocking trade just encourages more authoritarianism. I have yet to see a case where it actually impacts the leadership enough to matter, especially when it comes to larger countries like Russia.
Why wouldn’t I? If they have the freedom to associate with me, I should have the freedom to associate with them.
That’s a very very big “if” considering US’ foreign policy. An “if” that translates to you not actually having this freedom.
How noble of you, but what do you suggest we do about people who aren’t reached by your words of wisdom?
I’m not sure what your point is. Someone not having the freedom to associate with me doesn’t limit my freedom of association. Someone else being locked away in jail doesn’t mean I’m in jail just because I can’t freely associate with them.
We should be pushing to remove barriers to association, not responding in kind. And yes, that includes changing our foreign policy.
As I mentioned, the government should raise awareness around the issues of proprietary software, especially software originating from adversarial countries. Don’t raise FUD, but instead fund research into these software products. Get researchers onto platforms where they can reach a wide audience, like late night talk shows, popular YouTube and similar channels, etc.
For individuals, promote and donate to organizations like Mozilla, the EFF, and Proton that push for open software and privacy. Use those services and recommend them to your friends and family.
If you ban something, you just get the Streisand effect and erode trust. If something is dangerous, the best strategy is to be completely transparent about why and provide information that can be independently verified.
US visas & other things make it so that otherwise free people cannot do business in US or even enter the US. This means that, by definition, your state prevents you from associating with them.
But this doesn’t remove the threat at all. Look at tiktok, governments have been raising awareness about it and flagging it as a national security concern and yet the user count is growing.
There are things where raising awareness makes sense, e.g. alcohol consumption, smoking, etc. There are other cases where state intervention is required, e.g. working with asbestos, led, mercury, etc. Software falls in the latter category, because, like I said, it’s not just a matter of personal choice. S
I really doubt that banning Karspersky would have the effect of more people using Kaspersky. That’s silly.
I agree, and I’m absolutely in favor of dramatically relaxing our immigration policy. If I could snap my fingers, I’d double immigration quotas and guarantee visa renewal for anyone here legally who has not been convicted of a crime. I work with some wonderful immigrants, and I think we need more.
That said, my freedom of association isn’t being limited with poor immigration policy, I can still collaborate with them online, share software with them, etc. The only limitation is physical proximity. That’s an issue, but I don’t see it as an abridgement of my freedom of association in at all the same way as banning software.
Then the people have spoken. They prefer whatever that app provides over national security.
The government should step up the awareness campaign and find legitimate issues to substantiate the guidance to avoid it.
But I do not consent to the government banning any form of media.
What’s special about software? The defense here is proper security practices at all levels. The main risks are:
Honestly, if governments pressured computer vendors to properly sandbox applications, we’d have far fewer problems. That’s where the awareness campaign would do wonders, naming and shaming when vendors cut corners on security.
Maybe not, I don’t think people have a real sense of loyalty to their antivirus.
But I think it could totally be a thing for TikTok.
You should read about the tyranny of majority.
I’m quite familiar with it.
But think of it this way. The majority is often poorly informed and will likely agree to some group making decisions on their behalf. That group is not necessarily subject to the will of the people and instead operates in its own bureaucracy where “security” is preferred over other priorities the people may have. Look at the TSA, they have been blinded by a pursuit of the appearance of security that they have gone well past the effective controls necessary to provide reasonable security to likely threats (e.g. bullet proof cockpit doors), and have failed to actually prevent things their tools are designed to detect.
The majority want safety, and a government agency wants to maintain relevance. Solving the problem by granting the government more power will devolve into the agency looking for more reasons to stay relevant and keep its funding. There’s plenty of examples of that, so it’s not an unfounded slippery slope argument.
So instead of the majority blindly handing over their responsibilities to a third party, we should instead teach the majority to avoid the worst of it. And then we can use the agencies we already have to gather information about potential threats and shut them down through other means (e.g. instead of banning potentially harmful apps, they could sue the app makers for actual damages).
but that’s just the point, isn’t it? There are no means of obtaining compensation from an adversarial state or its companies and the damage caused might be irreparable. The discussion is not about countries that US has strong ties with. This is foreign policy. And just like your fundamental US granted rights are not guaranteed outside the US borders, nor should adversaries enjoy the same rights in the US. Since the country in question, Russia, makes no commitment to observing any US laws and since there is no way of coercing it or punishing it when it doesn’t, why should US citizens be exposed to this?
And by the way, I think there’s another piece of info that you’re missing. Software bans are not the same as other bans. Banning Kaspersky, for example, just means that the company cannot officially trade and advertise their products in the US. But there is no way of preventing users from using those products(unfortunately).
If they do business here, they are subject to our laws. TikTok, for example, does have an entity here, so they would be subject to our laws. I don’t know about Kaspersky though.
Because they choose to. Restricting that is a restriction on US citizens’ freedom of association.
It goes further than that, it also restricts companies like Google and Apple from including them in their app stores. And for something like Apple, that effectively means users cannot install the app on their device because Apple does not allow other app stores.
I may reconsider if there were no practical limits on what users can do with their devices. Any restrictions should purely be on the companies offering the service, and it should never be illegal for me to use a given piece of software, even if it’s on the government’s “do not trade” list or whatever. What I do with that software may be illegal, but merely possessing and using it without violating other laws should never be illegal.
I also don’t think it should be illegal for any app store to distribute and process payment for a given piece of software, though perhaps it could be illegal to promote it. Otherwise, that’s a restriction on the freedom of the app store as well.
The cost of liberty and freedom is eternal vigilance from those who want to harm us, and those who claim to protect us.
Side tangent, but your oopsie of Nefarious Things to “Nefarious Thighs” fucking FLOORED me xD Wish I could detect nefarious thighs!
Hah! I’m not changing it
Sounds like a George Michael song to go along with Careless Whisper.
Banning software is not the same as banning books, lol. Books are passive ideas, software is active and can be used for espionage. You’re creating a false equivalence here.
They’re absolutely in the same category.
If the government can ban things in the name of “national security” based on little more than “it’s potentially dangerous,” what’s stopping them from labeling any platform that doesn’t censor information the way they want as “dangerous” and subject to bans?
The government doesn’t get to choose what I run on my computers, nor do they get to choose what books I read, what movies I watch, etc.
Oh yeah, the fallacious slippery slope again. How creative and intellectual!
If there’s anything it applies to, it’s government overreach. Look at how the TSA expanded its violation of personal privacy in the name of “security,” or how the NSA and FBI have expanded surveillance of individuals. Look at the militarization of police.
Once you let the government ban a handful of apps, it’s going to use that new power more frequently. That’s what bureaucrats do, when you give them a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
There are so many examples of government getting its foot in the door and steadily expanding its control. That’s what it does.
You do just as you did. Tell people and let them make up their minds. Posts like yours convinced me in the past and it will others in the future .
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Can’t wait for the EU to ban Facebook :(
I mean, yeah? I’m down!
I’d still use it if my friends and most of the people I know do
You’d think the fact that Kaspersky is useless would be enough to keep people from using it.
It’s not useless for brainless users sadly
You would think that but I have a Friend that bought the paid version and swears by it, he had more than enough problems with it blocking everything it wants, I don’t say anything anymore I just shake my head and move on.
Kaspersky is just one piece of software to avoid. Others include:
Ah fuck, what’s the alternative to FileZilla?! I’ve been using that for like 17 years.
So just to illustrate, I went to the normal FileZilla download page and downloaded the Win64 package. Then I submitted it to VirusTotal.
filezilla-project.org/download.php?platform=win64…
virustotal.com/…/dbde8a4bd71bb1fbc0511cdb657dfeff…
If you click other versions, there are installers without the adware.
As someone who has used FileZilla for years, I am shook and I appreciate you pasting the link
Those dumbasses have been doing this for years. I don’t know if it has viruses and such in it but it has had the bundled stuff for a while now.
I wish it didn’t since it’s a great program.
filezilla has an opencandy installer
Dolphin on KDE/Linux and WinSCP on Windows
I think whatever GNOME calls their file browser supports FTP as well.
It surely does, but i’m not sure if you can switch to side-by-side view
Then use the kde file browse.
Cyberduck
Same here.
CrossFTP seems promising. Also has the multi OS support.
Winscp?
Out of curiosity, why Telegram? (Im out of the loop on this one)
As for uTorrent, I’ve got version 2.2.1 and have never allowed it to update in the last decade or however long it’s been. I think that was the last version that didn’t allow any ads or otherwise and was simply a solid p2p client at the time.
Because Russians started it I guess?
If you forget everything else, it’s basically an unencrypted chat where the company behind it can read all your messages.
Like discord?
I never cared about discord so I don’t know, but I’d assume so, yes.
Because it’s less (because of history stored on server and use of OTR being problematic) secure than ICQ in year 2003, prone to phishing and, yes, made by people I wouldn’t trust.
may I ask why didn’t you just switch to qbittorrent? is there a feature that utorrent has but qbit doesn’t?
Never needed to or even thought about it. uTorrent never gave me any issues and was super lightweight. Additionally, there was a fansubbed anime site I was a member of for a long time that had a limited whitelist of p2p clients last they would allow their trackers to function on. uT 2.2.1 was one of those.
That pc seldom gets used anymore nowadays anyway, as my main pc is running OpenSuse and ktorrent does all I need it to.
Add in:
For antivirus, Microsoft’s built-in one is fine. Ideally use an OS that has better security and lower default permissions like popular Linux distros (at the very least, it’s a smaller target than Windows). I haven’t checked recently, but using Malware Bytes for occasional runs (not as active protection though) was good and is probably still good.
But in general, use FOSS, at the very least they’ll probably not pull a Reddit and screw over their users.
Seriously. Windows Defender is an excellent piece of software, and its all you need. Paying for anything else is kinda foolish.
If you’re on windows, you dont need anything else except maybe to install malware bytes once a month, run the scan, and uninstall it.
This is Lemmy. Chances of people here not using Windows is relatively high.
You know what they say about assuming things.
I would say that the fact that I used the word ‘chances’ would suggest I wasn’t assuming anything.
I would also suggest that the very large Linux communities would support my non-assumption.
Oh, so its like a card game
“I say Chance! and nullify your Astral Assumption card!”
No? It’s like a guess. You’ve heard of guesses before, right?
Yeah, always make assumptions. They make conversations faster.
Telegram is better than WhatsApp. At least it has a decent Linux client, and all clients are open source. WhatsApp has neither.
Unless you’re constantly using secret chats all your data is stored in plain text… This is actually worse than WhatsApp
You got an answer why it’s not.
Maybe better client and more features. But Russians have full access to servers and messages. They could read whatever they want. It’s a fact that proved during war that Russia started in Ukraine.
This is nonsense. The Founders of Telegram are exiles from Russia.
I’d say avoid AVG too then since it’s basically Avast.
I don’t even use antivirus software anymore. Previously, every time I found a new one recommended by security experts I thought I could trust, about a year later, it turned to shit or was relieved to always having been shit. Now I just backup my stuff and vet any executable. I don’t do any serious work on my Windows install anyway, so nuking it isn’t a problem.
Does Escape from Tarkov make the list?
Just don’t use it for secure comms and anything tangentially connected for what you consider “secure” matters. Simple as.
This just feels like a random hit list; how did you come up with it?
Why zoom? It’s based out of San Francisco.
I also object to the Telegram inclusion. Unless you want to include Discord, and various other server side encrypted communication apps. The founders may be Russians by birth but they have Ukrainian roots, are no longer Russian citizens, had their first company stolen from them by the Kremlin, etc. Also I always like to note, Einstein was a German by birth but he was no Nazi.
What’s the FileZilla connection? Tim Kosse (which as far as I can tell it’s still the primary author) is a German.
Honestly, Zoom just has a hilariously high frequency of vulnerabilities being discovered.
I mean… That’s fair, I don’t recommend zoom, but those reasons have nothing to do with Russia and everything to do with a company that was willing to lie that they had E2EE and didn’t.
This very partial list is based on my being in cyber security for 20 years and working a variety of incidents involving these apps. You all can do whatever you want with your computers.
That you didn’t give a helpful answer makes me doubt you where as before I was interested in what you had to say.
Telegram ftw. Down with WhatsApp.
Signal has better defaults and a less compromised origin
Nobody I know is using it so the point is almost moot :(
There’s nothing really wrong with telegram.
It’s just social media for people who aren’t indoctrinated by the west.
Will this affect websites, too? Cs.rin.ru is a good resource for a certain type of thing.
Wow the comments and upvotes/downvotes here are stupid.
Why would anybody in their right mind use Kasper by now.
Only pure all-American spyware on my machine. 🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🦅
FBI on its way to arrest me because I used MPC-BE to play dolby digital content without a license for the ac3 codec like 10 years ago lol
They can pry MPC-BE from my warm cheeze curl stained hands! I’ve been using it to play 4K BluRays on an HTPC, and to decode all these new proprietary surround sound codecs so I don’t need to buy a new expensive ass AVR.
Russia has computers???
If American really cared about security, they would use free software.
If anyone cared about security, they would use free software.
We gonna have to worry about 7zip?