You're not alone: This email from Google's Gemini team is concerning (www.androidauthority.com)
from PrivacyDingus@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 06:54
https://lemmy.world/post/31955478

Google’s Gemini team is apparently sending out emails about an upcoming change to how Gemini interacts with apps on Android devices. The email informs users that, come July 7, 2025, Gemini will be able to “help you use Phone, Messages, WhatsApp, and Utilities on your phone, whether your Gemini Apps Activity is on or off.” Naturally, this has raised some privacy concerns among those who’ve received the email and those using the AI assistant on their Android devices.

#technology

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rumba@piefed.zip on 25 Jun 07:13 next collapse

I guess my next phone is going to run NixOS.

classic@fedia.io on 25 Jun 07:18 next collapse

So is Gemini on there as an app? It isn't listed as such on my phone

DarkCloud@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 07:55 collapse

Yes, it’s on there. I have a phone, never downloaded or installed Gemini, but because it’s a motorola with a special extra button… I can push that button and up pops Gemini.

The only way I can stop it is by disabling the Google app, then the button becomes innert again (which is how I like it).

So yes, it’s embedded in the Google app. Disabling the Google app may aslo cause other issues (such as Google Home/Chromecast not working).

r00ty@kbin.life on 25 Jun 08:11 next collapse

Doesn't the motorola phone have a settings screen for defining what the button does? For Samsung they like to re-purpose the power button.

First of all, it brought up bixby. I turned it back to powering off the phone and disabled bixby.

Then, with the new update they re-assigned the power button to gemini. So, I turned it back to powering off the phone and disabled gemini too.

However, the problem these days is that I'm never completely sure I've turned off all of the AI nonsense on my phone.

DarkCloud@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 13:19 collapse

Yeah, but the question was as to whether Gemini is listed as an app. The answer is no, Google have snuck it in whether you like it or not.

r00ty@kbin.life on 26 Jun 08:27 collapse

It's in the app list for me. I set it to disabled.

Phone is Samsung s24 ultra.

classic@fedia.io on 25 Jun 16:54 collapse

Thank you. I disabled the google app (which I tbh low key don't know what it even does)

RejZoR@lemmy.ml on 25 Jun 07:20 next collapse

I’ve not received any mails or notifications. Though I don’t use Gemini at all. Or Google Assistant. Or any assistant.

Tippon@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 25 Jun 07:35 collapse

I don’t use them either, but still got the email.

swearengen@sopuli.xyz on 25 Jun 09:53 collapse

Same. My only use is accidental.

Guess I’m should get around to disabling it.

Tippon@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 25 Jun 11:02 collapse

I thought I had disabled it, and I don’t have the app, but I can’t see any way to remove it from any of the settings mentioned in the email 🤷🏻‍♂️

MudMan@fedia.io on 25 Jun 07:35 next collapse

So there's an opt-out.

The article seems concerned that the email announcing this doesn't include a specific path to the opt-out right in the email (which is a weird concern, considering the email provides two links to... presumably that information)?

I'm not sure what this means, either, but it seems the "whether your Gemini Apps Activity is on or off" line is saying that you can still have Gemini send texts for you even if you disable Google storing your apps usage server-side? I don't use Gemini as an assistant, so I'm not sure, but looking at the Gemini settings menu on my Android phone that's what it seems to map to.

Engywuck@lemm.ee on 25 Jun 07:53 collapse

My interpretation is that you can leave activity off i.e., your interactions are not saved. I may be wrong, but as I’m not interested in it for now, I’m not going to check either.

MudMan@fedia.io on 25 Jun 08:04 collapse

Right. They have an opt-out for Gemini storing your in-app activity, which I believe is a requirement to get the assistant to be able to do things in the app. This seems to say you may be able to interact with some messaging apps even if you opt out (presumably they would have a rebuilt way to interact with those that doesn't store any of your data?).

Engywuck@lemm.ee on 25 Jun 08:07 collapse

If this is the case, it’s (apparently) good for privacy.

MudMan@fedia.io on 25 Jun 08:10 collapse

Less bad, maybe?

Either way it's definitely a good example of why you should write good emails to your customers that explain things properly.

If this is what they're saying I'm assuming they didn't want to be too clear about what info they're storing if you don't opt out and ended up making an email that sounds like a threat.

Either way I won't be using Gemini as an assistant any time soon. Or any other voice assistant, for that matter.

Engywuck@lemm.ee on 25 Jun 08:30 collapse

You’re right. Anyeay, my google account is just a placeholder, let’s say. Everything is disable and I don’t actively use it to store anything, not even my calendar.

shneancy@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 07:41 next collapse

is gemini on all androids? i remember there once was something called bixby, now when i accidentally hold the home button for too long it tells me to enable “circle”. i’ve disabled all of those “smart” features but fuck knows what is going to get automatically installed in an update next week

Engywuck@lemm.ee on 25 Jun 07:54 next collapse

Bixby is, or used to be, on Samsung phones.

Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee on 25 Jun 10:08 collapse

Gemini replaced Bitchxby on the latest Samsungs.

It’s in the firmware.

With the S25 series they even give you a year of full subscription.
They made it the centrepiece of the launch event of the product line.

Galaxy devices now come with Gemini, your powerful AI assistant from Google. Long press the power button to get started.

The Samsung’s front is called “Galaxy AI” but Gemini runs every new feature really - including “cross-apps actions”.
(The non-obsolete Bixby features retained the name but are part of Galaxy AI now.)

But even with everything off One UI 7 (and Samsung apps, like camera) is still littered with AI buttons.

youtube.com/HinL5jCy_oI&t=1270
(Gemini is now the default action for long-pressing the power button)

Hexarei@programming.dev on 25 Jun 12:35 collapse

Bixby is/was Samsung’s assistant thing. Unrelated to Google’s Gemini

besselj@lemmy.ca on 25 Jun 07:41 next collapse

Laughs in GrapheneOS

Akip@discuss.tchncs.de on 25 Jun 08:26 next collapse

but for how long x.com/GrapheneOS/status/1933177989480456365

besselj@lemmy.ca on 25 Jun 09:02 next collapse

Long enough for GOS to port Android 16 or get their own OEM, I hope

Akip@discuss.tchncs.de on 25 Jun 15:24 collapse

i hope so too :/

MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip on 25 Jun 09:48 collapse

X is blocked on network level here, could you please copy&paste?

Matty_r@programming.dev on 25 Jun 09:51 next collapse

GrapheneOS @GrapheneOS We’re going to be moving forward under the expectation that future Pixel devices may not meet the requirements to run GrapheneOS (grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices ) and may not support using another OS. We’ve been in talks with a couple OEMs about making devices and what it would cost. 1:02 AM · Jun 13, 2025

MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip on 25 Jun 09:53 collapse

Thanks!

cupcakezealot@piefed.blahaj.zone on 25 Jun 09:54 next collapse

https://xcancel.com/GrapheneOS/status/1933177989480456365

GrapheneOS
@GrapheneOS
Jun 12
We're going to be moving forward under the expectation that future Pixel devices may not meet the requirements to run GrapheneOS (grapheneos.org/faq#future-de…) and may not support using another OS. We've been in talks with a couple OEMs about making devices and what it would cost.

Jun 12, 2025 · 3:02 PM UTC

Anafabula@discuss.tchncs.de on 25 Jun 11:28 next collapse

Same entire thread on Mastodon: grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114670995130379882

j0ester@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 11:59 collapse
kratoz29@lemm.ee on 25 Jun 14:20 collapse

Why is this a Google Pixel only ROM? Anything special with the Google Pixel?

I even consider Chinese phones a better hardware dela than what Google does, and I know Google software (I mainly use AOSP ROMs, Pixel OS in this case) but if we are swapping right away the ROM of the Pixel and the hardware is subpar what’s the deal with it?

sic_semper_tyrannis@lemmy.today on 25 Jun 15:42 next collapse

Pixel phones have an extra security chip in them called the Titan. Other manufacturers lack this.

androidauthority.com/titan-m2-google-3261547/

steal_your_face@lemmy.ml on 25 Jun 15:57 collapse

Check out this thread. They go into detail about it.

xcancel.com/GrapheneOS/…/1936420921931084075#m

r00ty@kbin.life on 25 Jun 08:08 next collapse

Pretty sure I disabled Gemini as one of the first things I did when I got my phone. But, yes when I read that, to me it did seem like a serious overreach for something that was going to be "on by default" for most users.

Squizzy@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 09:17 collapse

How, its baked in? Gemini isnt installed on my phone but its there. Like the circle to search.

SupaTuba@lemm.ee on 25 Jun 09:21 next collapse

You might be thinking of the normal Google Assistant

T156@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 11:01 collapse

Didn’t Google replace the normal Google Assistant with Gemini on newer phones?

neclimdul@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 11:55 collapse

At least on my pixel 7, they rolled out Gemini replacement but you could revert it to the classic assistant. It was slow, none of my normal commands worked, and it wouldn’t find anything I was looking for just “answer my question”. I asked it how to disable itself and it couldn’t answer that though. You can probably find documentation online if you use an actual search engine

r00ty@kbin.life on 25 Jun 09:44 next collapse

Gemini is an app, I disabled that. I also shut off the key press and there's some other places you can turn off some of the automatic AI features, and also there's a setting to disable the "online" AI in general.

But that's why in another comment I said, I am still not sure I turned it all off (or even if it is possible to).

priapus@piefed.social on 25 Jun 15:20 collapse

You can remove most apps using ADB. Universal Android Debloater is helpful for this, just make sure you read the comments for each app so you dont remove something you need.

Squizzy@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 08:20 collapse

Have you a link? This sounds like I would need root?

priapus@piefed.social on 26 Jun 20:07 collapse
ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 08:18 next collapse

I don’t feel very concerned… That’s kind of the point of the service.

Good that there’s an opt-out.

edit: I dug around for it. They seem to mean the literal “Apps” settings page and not the “Settings” page. Every individual app that Gemini is capable of connecting to has a switch there. In Gemini, press your profile picture, then apps. In there you can both access the activity setting and decide which apps Gemini has access to.

gian@lemmy.grys.it on 25 Jun 11:42 collapse

Good that there’s an opt-out.

A supposed opt-out

ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 12:15 collapse

Well, yeah. I haven’t actually seen this email yet in my personal inbox, nor have I found the opt out personally. Google is kinda weird with their staggered rollouts but I figure it’ll turn up. I’m on a Pixel, so anything else would be quite odd.

edit: seems to be in the top right corner of Gemini, press your profile picture and then apps. That’s where the settings are. You can opt out of Gemini having access to any app in the list on an individual basis.

gian@lemmy.grys.it on 27 Jun 07:27 collapse

It is my memory at fault or it was discovered, various times, that Google (and all the others obviously) tracked people also when they opted out ?

ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world on 27 Jun 07:40 collapse

I don’t remember, but it wouldn’t surprise me.

Like, I personally find it useful enough to have stuff enabled, but I do get that people want it off for real. I wouldn’t be surprised if the only way to achieve that is to degoogle the phone.

vane@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 08:22 next collapse

So it’s still Your device not Gemini device. I’ll wait couple of years.

neon_nova@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 25 Jun 09:01 next collapse

Linux has become good enough to replace desktop operating systems.

Now, we are back at square one. I’ll be the first to inaccurately declare, “This will be the year of the Linux phone.”

Squizzy@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 09:18 next collapse

Looking at postmarketOS for my phone too, so sick of this shit

xiwi@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 25 Jun 09:49 collapse

PostmarketOS is cool, but as an actual phone replacement it is tough.

IndiBrony@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 10:26 next collapse

I’m looking at a Volla phone volla.online/en/

But I also have no experience of Linux in general yet so I have no idea if this is a good move.

I just really want to get away from android/apple/windows on all of my devices.

I want SteamOS for desktop, because quite frankly gaming is all I really use a desktop for anymore.

A_norny_mousse@feddit.org on 25 Jun 10:42 next collapse

Volla also has a (reliable, judging from reports) community version of SFOS

AlligatorBlizzard@sh.itjust.works on 25 Jun 10:47 next collapse

Maybe look into Bazzite if you get impatient waiting for SteamOS to become more widely available.

Passerby6497@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 12:15 next collapse

I’m going to second a recommendation for Bazzite. If you’ve used normal Linux before, it takes some getting used to the quirks of an atomic distro, but I’ve been using it for a month or two and love it!

xiwi@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 26 Jun 09:50 collapse

Didn’t know volla. Looks cool but expensive.

I don’t think steamos on desktop is a good idea, IIRC it targets specific hardware.

A_norny_mousse@feddit.org on 25 Jun 10:39 collapse

I haven’t tried, but I took a closer look at their wiki yesterday:

  • the Main (official) devices are QEMU, i.e. virtual
  • the list of Community devices is long, but whenever I clicked on something there were significant caveats

IMHO they should focus their efforts on getting at least one actual phone working fully.

I want this project to succeed, but until then I use Sailfish OS, btw.

Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee on 25 Jun 10:06 next collapse

All I need is a good enough emulation of android apps to fool them (eg for banking).

A_norny_mousse@feddit.org on 25 Jun 10:36 next collapse

Sailfish OS has it.

Unfortunately the project has some closed source bits which, imho, aren’t an issue when you look closer (some parts of the UI). Maybe I’m naive but I trust this EU company.

I use it as my daily driver. It certainly is frugal compared to recent Android versions, but fully functional.

It’s an actual Linux OS (as opposed to any Android version). Things work the same way they do on my laptop & server.

Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee on 25 Jun 12:03 next collapse

I used Maemo on my N900 <3.

I don’t wanna use Sailfish bcs of the phone support tho, I’m shallow af & I need my hardware :(.
(I also have a few other Sailfish issues, the source code/availability/package, the licencing - but I feel like all of those could/would change with some growth.)

A_norny_mousse@feddit.org on 25 Jun 12:11 collapse

I understand. But I think it’s right that they concentrate on a few devices. There’s also something about SONY openly providing firmware and encouraging unlocking, something “Open Devices” iirc.

Ah, the N900…

Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee on 25 Jun 14:05 collapse

Yes, I agree.
But Sony has drivers out there for a few more devices.

neon_nova@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 25 Jun 14:21 next collapse

Do you by chance know if WeChat and Facebook messenger work on it?

Those apps are critical for my work.

A_norny_mousse@feddit.org on 26 Jun 09:17 collapse

Check the forums.

FWIW, Signal works perfectly, WA too.

GreyEyedGhost@lemmy.ca on 25 Jun 17:11 collapse

Sadly, SailfishOS is region locked. Being from North America, I can’t purchase their phones, or use the trial/emulation option, which really sucks because I like a lot of what I’m seeing there.

vala@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 21:03 next collapse

Us here in NA finally get to see what its like on the other side of the region locking coin haha.

GreyEyedGhost@lemmy.ca on 25 Jun 22:23 collapse

Yeah, I’d be happy if they had an unsupported version, but I get that could cause negative publicity for those who couldn’t accept that unsupported means exactly that.

vala@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 09:18 collapse

Fwiw I use a phone imported from the UK (Nothing Phone 1) in NA without problems so who knows why they won’t do this.

A_norny_mousse@feddit.org on 26 Jun 09:07 collapse

There are a few happy US users on the forums. Maybe check out what they have to say.

I’m sure the company is perfectly happy with having these users. AFAIR the reason they don’t sell licenses outside EU is that it would add hassle, mostly sales legalities.

I didn’t know you cannot buy the C2 in the USA, but I would recommend an Xperia X10 II or X10 III anyhow.

sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works on 25 Jun 13:40 next collapse

Can you get by with web access? That’s what I do and it’s fine.

TheLastOfHisName@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 16:04 next collapse

Yup. I use my bank’s website on my phone. Works plenty fine for me.

hcbxzz@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 17:52 next collapse

Not for depositing checks

IronKrill@lemmy.ca on 25 Jun 17:55 collapse

Depends who you bank with. Some desktop websites suck on mobile and some don’t even allow certain actions on desktop. For some ungodly reason Wealthsimple requires me to do almost everything via app. It’s one of the reasons I barely utilise their services.

rakeshmondal@lemmy.zip on 25 Jun 15:40 next collapse

Unfortunately banking apps are only going to get harder to run on software uncertified by Google.

Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee on 25 Jun 16:11 collapse

Just monopoly things.

zqps@sh.itjust.works on 25 Jun 16:48 collapse

“Hello there.” - Play Integrity API

kbobabob@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 25 Jun 10:26 next collapse

Isn’t Android using a Linux kernel already?

loutr@sh.itjust.works on 25 Jun 10:44 next collapse

Yes, but everything above it (including drivers) is custom-made and tightly controlled by Google.

GreenMartian@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 25 Jun 10:47 next collapse

Yes. IIRC it’s based on latest LTS kernel with Google patches. So it’s been “year of the Linux phone” for a while now.

It’s unfortunate that the slop they put on top of it is such a privacy nightmare. PostmarketOS is trying to change that and supports Plasma, Gnome, etc. But it’s early days yet and still rough around the edges from what I’ve been reading.

balder1991@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 12:44 collapse

Yeah, but the kernel is a low-level module that handles hardware, memory, and processes—it’s not what users interact with directly, so sharing the same kernel doesn’t make it all that similar as you’d think.

What makes Linux feel like ‘Linux’ to users is the stuff on top: the userland—bash, coreutils, package managers, X11/Wayland, etc. Android replaces almost all of that, so even though it uses the Linux kernel, it doesn’t feel like Linux.

pfr@lemmy.sdf.org on 25 Jun 10:44 next collapse

Behold, the Linux phone:

liberux.net

cenzorrll@lemmy.ca on 25 Jun 13:34 collapse

That looks far too polished with locked in specs for them to not have any prototype. I’d trust companies that have actually made a product that has a janky Linux implementation that’s improving, than one that doesn’t exist yet relying on crowdfunding.

A_norny_mousse@feddit.org on 25 Jun 10:48 next collapse

This is my fourth comment shilling SFOS here, but it just might be what you’re looking for. It is my daily driver.

neon_nova@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 25 Jun 13:02 next collapse

That’s pretty cool, I’m working now, but I’m checking out its Android app compatibility.

If it can run my work stuff, I’ll be so happy.

A_norny_mousse@feddit.org on 25 Jun 13:07 collapse

The forum has a thread specifically about banking apps.

pfr@lemmy.sdf.org on 26 Jun 14:29 collapse

Wish it was supported in more countries.

Tja@programming.dev on 25 Jun 15:37 next collapse

I use Linux since debian 3.0 and I don’t think Linux is ready to replace desktop os yet. The universe has come up with bigger and more powerful idiots.

JcbAzPx@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 17:38 collapse

Linux had reached idiot parity with windows at least. Idiot proof OS is a fable that cannot be reached.

Tja@programming.dev on 25 Jun 18:24 collapse

Maybe in “appliances” like the steam deck. There are still driver and software support issues. There’s a big “familiarity” gap. There’s a lack of pre-installed systems. We are not at parity yet.

JcbAzPx@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 19:02 collapse

You think there aren’t driver and software support issues in windows 11?

Tja@programming.dev on 26 Jun 06:22 collapse

Not what I said.

JcbAzPx@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 15:13 collapse

What you said only makes sense if you believe that to be true.

Tja@programming.dev on 26 Jun 16:24 collapse

Nope.

umbrella@lemmy.ml on 25 Jun 20:33 next collapse

android is linux and its great. the problem is the google crud on top of it, and their iron fist ruling it. windows is similar tbh.

we have to fight google not compete with android. the problem is not technology itself, its the oligarchs controlling it.

neon_nova@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 26 Jun 04:45 collapse

Android is Linux… sure.

But it’s not what anyone means when they say they want a Linux phone.

bilb@lemmy.ml on 26 Jun 14:49 next collapse

Its a vexingly pedantic point.

umbrella@lemmy.ml on 26 Jun 16:52 collapse

i know that.

my point is that it doesnt really matter while the oligarchs control the mainstream OS.

BotsRuinedEverything@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 01:16 collapse

Android… is a Linux phone…?

neon_nova@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 26 Jun 04:44 collapse

Not really.

A_norny_mousse@feddit.org on 25 Jun 10:50 next collapse

What about LineageOS?

My guess is the problematic parts here aren’t open source so they should never show up in Lineage OS?

Sunflier@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 10:54 next collapse

Dear tech bros,

We, the people, don’t want to use your AI shit. Please stop shoving it down our throats. Thank you.

Sincerely,

-The people

Tiger666@lemmy.ca on 25 Jun 10:57 next collapse

Hahahahhshahahahhahahahhahahahahahahahaha.

Sincerely,

Tech bros.

doodledup@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 11:07 next collapse

You don’t want to use it.

Sunflier@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 12:34 collapse

The companies keep preloading it on new tech, updating old tech so its there, preventing the option from disabling it from even being there, and disabling tech that can’t use it.

This. Shit. Can. Fuck. All. The. Way. Off!

zqps@sh.itjust.works on 25 Jun 16:47 collapse

“oh didn we make it not just an automatic update, but you can’t even opt out? Oops! Hee hee don’t worry, you’ll love it in no time. Which is why we’re forcing it on you. You’re welcome.”

baguettefish@discuss.tchncs.de on 25 Jun 11:19 next collapse

yes but what if a company has the ability to create billions of close friends who can recommend sponsored products to you? why would it care about whether you want that or not?

also bard was a way better name for google’s LLM. it has its origins in an isaac asimov story about a robot who is programmed to tell random stories.

dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de on 25 Jun 12:37 next collapse

Is it really the people or just a subset of people that use Lemmy, the vast majority of people seemingly don’t care as is evidenced by the sheer number of people using things like social media.

What might be important to use in this echo chamber isn’t reflective of society on the whole.

SupraMario@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 12:47 next collapse

It’s mainly tech savy people who don’t use it. Tons of people in companies use this shit. The number of people who use “ai” to take auto notes in meetings is insane. It’s a massive security risk but they do it anyways thinking it won’t be stored.

MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works on 25 Jun 13:43 next collapse

Obligatory Lemmy is social media response

dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de on 25 Jun 13:48 collapse

Yes, with the key difference being that it’s anonymous. Publicly viewable but the users can be as anonymous as they like.

Tja@programming.dev on 25 Jun 15:35 next collapse

It’s mostly lemmy. In real life people go from amused to indifferent. I have never met anyone as hostile as the lemmy consensus seems to be. If a feature is useful people will use it, be it AI or not AI. Some AI features are gimmicks and they largely get ignored, unless very intrusive (in which case the intrusivity, not the AI, is the problem).

dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de on 25 Jun 16:09 next collapse

It’s one of the reasons I use Lemmy a little less these days as it’s evident to me that it’s an echo chamber for a tiny subset of humanity and at times it just feels like a circle jerk where real change isn’t an option.

jjjalljs@ttrpg.network on 25 Jun 23:58 next collapse

If a feature is useful people will use it, be it AI or not AI.

People will also use it if it’s not useful, if it’s the default.

A friend of mine did a search the other day to find the hour of something, and google’s AI lied to her. Top of the page, just completely wrong.

Luckily I said, “That doesn’t sound right” and checked the official site, where we found the truth.

Google is definitely forcing this out, even when it’s inferior to other products. Hell, it’s inferior to their own, existing product.

But people will keep using AI, because it’s there, and it’s right most of the time.

Google sucks. They should be broken up, and their leadership barred from working in tech. We could have had a better future. Instead we have this hallucinatory hellhole.

Tja@programming.dev on 26 Jun 06:25 next collapse

How are you evaluating inferior? I like the AI search. It’s my opinion. You have yours.

jjjalljs@ttrpg.network on 26 Jun 13:43 collapse

Well, in this example, the information provided by the AI was simply wrong. If it had done the traditional search method of pointing to the organization’s website where they had the hours listed, it would have worked fine.

This idea that “we’re all entitled to our opinion” is nonsense. That’s for when you’re a child and the topic is what flavor Jelly Bean you like. It’s not for like policy or things that matter. You can’t just “it’s my opinion” your way through “this algorithm is O(n^2) but I like it better than O(n) so I’m going to use it for my big website”. Or more on topic, you can’t use it for “these results are wrong but I like them better”

Tja@programming.dev on 26 Jun 16:23 collapse

Traditional search often is also wrong, showing some 3rd party website or a link farm.

With AI search I get a summary AND the result list, so I have more info to make a decision.

jjjalljs@ttrpg.network on 26 Jun 16:31 collapse

Well, yes, Google has been becoming shittier for years as they prioritize ads and fail to deal with SEO slop. You have to know what’s a good source, but that was true even when we were doing research in libraries.

The AI summary is making the problem worse. The information it provides is not trustworthy. It also deprives site owners from traffic. It’s really bad on like every metric.

Tja@programming.dev on 26 Jun 17:15 collapse

The AI summary is additive, I don’t see how it makes it worse. I find it useful to save time and it’s right in most cases, if I need something of vital importance (like the opening time for a shop) I don’t use search results anyway, I go to maps where I expect to find a link to their official website (not trusting the opening hours on maps either).

jjjalljs@ttrpg.network on 26 Jun 17:55 collapse

I don’t think it saves time on net if you have to read it and then go verify it anyway. Might as well go directly to the more trustworthy source in the first place! And if you don’t care if your answer is correct, why even search? Just make something up.

Tja@programming.dev on 26 Jun 18:29 collapse

It’s just more convenient. I’m not usually Googling if a mushroom is poisonous, I’m Googling how to get the length of an array in python or something similar. If it doesn’t work, I come back and look at the second result, which happens less than once a week.

ScoffingLizard@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 26 Jun 09:59 collapse

They need a tech ethics board, and people need a license to operate or work in decision-making capacities. Also, anyone above the person’s head making an unethical decision loses their license, too. License should be cheap to prevent monopoly, but you have to have one to handle data. Don’t have a license. Don’t have a company. Plant shitty surveillance without separate, noticeable, succinctly presented agreements that are clear and understandable, with warnings about currently misunderstood uses, then you lose license. First offense.

Edit: Also mandatory audits with preformulated and separate, and succint notifications are applied. “This company sells your info to the government and police forces. Any private information, even sexual in nature, can be used against you. Your information will be used by several companies to build your complete psychological profile to sell you things you wouldn’t normally purchase and predict crimes you might commit.”

brbposting@sh.itjust.works on 26 Jun 03:34 collapse

I imagine even the fk_ai crowd appreciate the non-gimmick stuff as long as it is nothing like a chatbot

Tiny example from Gmail:

<img alt="" src="https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/a16b5562-6056-40d9-b72d-258744b133f4.png">

This is all over, and it can be super useful from time to time.

They say “f AI!” but I mean sure they don’t want better searches than were possible five years ago? If it’s not sycophantic and confabulatory etc. etc.

Good point on intrusivity

PS

PS: I translated news from Iran this week using AI tools and using traditional translators. Who would advocate for the garbage traditional translation—soon as I went the “AI” route, it was suddenly possible to understand what the journalists were trying to say. That doesn’t mean I want translators to lose their jobs, it just means I know what the best available technology is and how to use it to get a job done. (And does not mean just because it translates well that I will also trust it to summarize the article for me.)

nutsack@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 25 Jun 16:44 next collapse

it’s mostly just talk. people will hate it and use it at the same time

Vanilla_PuddinFudge@infosec.pub on 25 Jun 17:49 next collapse

The majority of people eat at McDonalds. It doesn’t make it a good idea on your finances or health. Sheep gonna baa.

If you for some reason think that megacorporations and big tech aren’t monetizing the literal majority to the fullest extent of every single law they can break while getting away with it, you need to wake the fuck up. Big time. I don’t know if this is some psyop from leddit or what but my doors stay closed, my android plays tablet mode with no sim. Thanks tho.

dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de on 25 Jun 18:01 collapse

Nauseating.

Vanilla_PuddinFudge@infosec.pub on 25 Jun 18:04 collapse

Very. I get sick just smelling it.

ScoffingLizard@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 26 Jun 01:28 collapse

I’ve been trying to tell people for 15 years. It hasn’t worked a single bit. It’s frustrating that people think they have nothing to hide when their carelessness and lack of tech knowledge is ruining the future of the next generations. I just can’t try to explain it to everyone. They don’t link the relation at all. I thought maybe eventually, they would just get it, but here we still are…

Boddhisatva@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 13:15 next collapse

But the AI people that the tech bros can now create outnumber real people by ♾️:1. The opinions of real people have ceased to matter even the tiny amount that they once did. So open wide and try not to gag.

criss_cross@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 22:45 collapse

The problem is there’s a fair amount of tech CEOs that insist this is the future and everyone needs to hop on which between the hype train, the amount of software peeps out of a job because of layoffs and the amount of snake oils salesmen out of a job because this eats google’s lunch this bubble is just ballooning. You have a lot of people hitching on this bandwagon hoping to sell shovels to the next gold rush.

And for awhile everything is just gonna get shittier.

TingoTenga@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 11:35 next collapse

Pls break Google up. Kthx

Lemminary@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 12:07 collapse

Let’s not stop at Google. Break them all up!

pappabosley@lemm.ee on 25 Jun 12:32 collapse

Seize the means of production

Tja@programming.dev on 25 Jun 15:35 collapse

Yes take over the Google factory!

pappabosley@lemm.ee on 25 Jun 23:56 collapse

We’ll make the googles ourselves!

higgsboson@dubvee.org on 25 Jun 12:29 next collapse

I agree it would be concerning if I allowed Gemini access to my phone. Fuck that. This shit is exactly why I am on GrapheneOS.

Tattorack@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 13:32 collapse

Can you tell me about Graphene?

I got bank and government ID apps (manditory. Denmark uses MitID for all government related things), but they require things like locked bootloaders and Google security features.

Would those apps be functional on GrapheneOS?

sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works on 25 Jun 13:39 next collapse

Maybe? It depends on what exactly the app checks for. Some apps don’t work because they check if it’s running on the original ROM. It’s hit or miss.

If you can access what you need through the web, you can go that route instead.

higgsboson@dubvee.org on 25 Jun 13:46 next collapse

ew. Tell your government to stop mandating spyware.

Graphene does let you re-lock the bootloader. IIRC, whether an app works depends on whether they require SafetyNet full, or just basic. I have so far only found one app that refuses to work. However… it looks like MitID was recently updated and no longer works.

gist.github.com/…/4199be415f2a139b64688ae74c92a7f…

Starting on 2024-06-12, MitID have started using Google Play Integrity API during activation. This means that new installations will no longer work in GrapheneOS nor any other non-stock Android, as they are not certified by Google and will not pass the required checks. The app still works (for now) if you managed to get it activated before that date.

Toes@ani.social on 25 Jun 14:20 next collapse

It’s best to never use any apps or accounts for your business life on your personal device. I have two phones for this purpose.

RubberElectrons@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 14:52 next collapse

I can also recommend CalyxOS. Locked bootloaders, open source emulation of all Google’s play services (meaning an open source binary running on your phone, filtering requests to Google’s servers with absolutely minimal/random info).

Basically I have anonymized access to the play store, and any apps I install other than Google pay work, no issue. ~~I believe even Google’s secure features work. There’s a reddit post about MitID: www.reddit.com/r/CalyxOS/comments/w2ordg/…/~~

E: having read through the technical comments on graphene’s forums, looks like play integrity prevents MitID from running. The service offers free code generators which hang on your keys though.

batmaniam@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 15:48 collapse

Do you happen to use android auto? Does that work OK? I could go without, but that’s one integration that’s just got it’s hooks on me hard.

0x0@infosec.pub on 25 Jun 16:40 collapse

Android auto works on an ungoogled phone last i tried, it does take some tinkering though

WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works on 25 Jun 21:39 collapse

how do they make it mandatory? what happens if you don’t have a smartphone?

is it strictly mandatory, or is the alternative intentionally very inconvenient?

I’m asking because it is very weird to me. but also, in my country also in the EU, there’s this misunderstanding that it is mandatory, while actually it can be replaced with any 2FA code generator app. and then it has a bunch of administrative features in one place for convenience

Tattorack@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 22:05 collapse

MitID is hard-required to sign into anything government or personal information required. Previously people would be handed a key-card (a white, fold-out card with a bunch of numbers on it. The numbers were one-time use, so the card would eventually run out, requiring a replacement after a few months).

These key-cards have been completely phased out. Now there is the MitID app or a key-device that is almost impossible to get (you’ll basically have to prove that you don’t have/can’t use a smart phone).

The MitID app has almost no features at all. It’s specifically used for authentication. You log into the gooberment website or bank website, then a encrypted, constantly changing QR code pops up. You open the MitID app on your phone, scan the QR code, and then you gain access.

This is all run through the private security company the Danish government has hired, called “NETS”.

WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works on 26 Jun 00:15 next collapse

I’m sorry you have to deal with this shit

Anas@feddit.dk on 26 Jun 16:12 collapse

Something must have changed since I got my physical code display then, because I simply went to their webpage and ordered a free code display device a while ago. www.mitid.dk/bestil-mitid-identifikationsmiddel/

TheFriar@lemm.ee on 25 Jun 13:52 next collapse

“Google is making it easier for Google to pry into your personal data.”

“Water is making it easier for water to make you wet.”

some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org on 25 Jun 14:40 next collapse

“We spent a lot of money on this, so you’re going to have it.”

Krudler@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 14:51 next collapse

Remember when Google+ was the future?

nutsack@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 25 Jun 16:39 next collapse

no

Krudler@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 19:22 collapse

Come on people don’t spoil sport this, it was funny!

pinball_wizard@lemmy.zip on 25 Jun 18:07 next collapse

I remember. But don’t quote me on that. Actually, I guess no one can quote me on it, it was in a discussion on Google Wave, anyway.

zod000@lemmy.ml on 25 Jun 20:38 collapse

Google Wave was actually pretty awesome. Google just had no idea what to do with it and it was too heavy for phones of the time.

eestileib@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 26 Jun 06:30 collapse

I was at Google when it came out, I was like “sure this would be fine to use too, but everybody is on chat and Gmail and I kind of need to actually reach people…”

I think they just figured it would get dogfooded automatically because it was slicker than chat and Gmail, but under time pressure you’re just not gonna do it unless you have to.

And there was zero chance I was going to get anybody in my personal life to use it.

zod000@lemmy.ml on 26 Jun 14:30 collapse

We used it for our dev and systems groups at my former company for a while and really enjoyed it compared to anything else that was around. When it went away, we switched away to IRC due to how easy it was to host and maintain. I actually don’t see a big overlap between Wave and chat and Gmail for how people use it, but I suspect that was a big part of the problem. The uses where Wave was superior didn’t really catch on until Slack came on the scene and had MS and Google then scrambling to make similar tools.

bitwolf@sh.itjust.works on 25 Jun 18:15 collapse

I wish it had been. Circles were so much better than FB groups etc

commander@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 01:02 collapse

Ya it was pretty good. It was also pretty great for all the niche community groups. It had great photography, music, open source software, I remember Bernie Sanders was big early on on Google+ well before he ran for president. Google+ was the shit compared to Facebook/Instagram/Twitter. Google just fumbled by giving up on it too soon and not recognizing how good they had it with the photography and hobby interests groups. Their best shot at competing with Instagram and Twitter

KyuubiNoKitsune@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 25 Jun 15:21 next collapse

Just… Disable it. You can switch to the old assistant.

muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works on 25 Jun 15:25 next collapse

until google decides thats not allowed either

CalipherJones@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 15:42 next collapse

That’ll be the day I switch phones.

100_kg_90_de_belin@feddit.it on 25 Jun 16:00 collapse

If I have to use a walled garden, then I’ll go the OG Apple daddy.

muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works on 25 Jun 23:29 collapse

Look I like my apple stuff too, but it’s foolish to trust Apple not to do obnoxious things for money. We need a Linux phone.

KyuubiNoKitsune@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 25 Jun 15:44 collapse

Yup, but for now it’s a solution

Hawk@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 25 Jun 16:01 next collapse

I wish I knew how. Did this several times already, it always magically turns back on after a couple of weeks.

KyuubiNoKitsune@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 25 Jun 22:59 collapse

Oh god, please don’t say that.

eestileib@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 25 Jun 20:11 next collapse

The article says that they are changing their policy so that even if you turn it off it will still be feeding your actions to AI.

Read the article yo.

KyuubiNoKitsune@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 25 Jun 22:59 collapse

You have to have Gemini itself enabled as your assistant on your phone for that.

0ops@lemm.ee on 26 Jun 14:36 collapse

I’ve got them both turned off lol

turtlesareneat@discuss.online on 25 Jun 15:39 next collapse

Few years ago I got a Nest Secure to go with my other Google Nest gear. One day Google emailed me to tell me Assistant was now enabled on my security system. Oh, by the way, it has an undocumented microphone!

That’s when I realized what a privacy nightmare Google really is. I know Apple isn’t great but come on.

phoenixz@lemmy.ca on 25 Jun 15:44 next collapse

Dammit don’t make me switch to apple phones, I hate apple. I hate Google too but FFS all you need to do is stay out of my way and the one thing you continuously do is stand in my way…

GTFO of my way! Piss off with that AI crap that nobody asked for

Griffus@lemmy.zip on 25 Jun 16:01 next collapse

An ungoogled android variant has to be a lot lesser of an evil, no?

EarlGrey@discuss.tchncs.de on 25 Jun 17:04 collapse

Problem is that if you have a critical application (like banking) that relies on Google services you’re SOL.

It’s Apple or Google at that point.

flightyhobler@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 17:35 next collapse

Just use the websites instead of the apps.

SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 09:55 collapse

But then you can’t tap to pay with your phone.

flightyhobler@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 11:07 collapse

Well then I guess you will have to sell your soul to the devil for those extra seconds of convenience

Vanilla_PuddinFudge@infosec.pub on 25 Jun 17:46 next collapse

“Do you guys not have laptops?”

oppy1984@lemm.ee on 25 Jun 19:51 collapse

GrapheneOS can sandbox apps to use the Google services only with permitted apps.

Note I don’t actually have a GrapheneOS capable phone at the moment, but I’ve been getting familiar with it in hopes of switching soon, so I’m just relaying what I’ve read.

percent@infosec.pub on 25 Jun 23:13 collapse

You guys are really making me consider GrapheneOS.

bilb@lemmy.ml on 26 Jun 14:45 collapse

Its what made me buy a pixel phone.

Evotech@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 16:57 next collapse

The apple who recently put AI as the core element of their os?

Rivalarrival@lemmy.today on 25 Jun 18:10 next collapse

You dont have to switch phones entirely, and you’re better off if you dont. iCrap is still far worse than anything Google is coming out with.

Just switch to a different dialer/phone app to replace “Phone” and a different SMS/MMS app to replace 'Messages". I’ve used “Should I Answer” in the past for my default phone app, and I currently use QKSMS for texting.

stardust@lemmy.ca on 25 Jun 21:41 collapse

Apple is pushing AI even for their Mac lineup. Apple is a US company and had to be forced to allow Sideloading in select regions. Jumping to another US company seems like a lateral move.

Moving to dumb phones or custom ROMs is the best alternative available.

Opinionhaver@feddit.uk on 25 Jun 16:22 next collapse

This headline format makes me irrationally annoyed.

They shouldn’t be making assumptions about what the reader thinks. It almost feels like they’re planting a bias first and then presenting the facts - instead of just laying things out and letting people make up their own minds.

Fedditor385@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 16:24 next collapse

Gemini depends on the Google app, disable it, and it dies.

Have you noticed how the Google app, the one that supposedly just does search and list news articles, has like 400 MB? Over time it accumulated 2GB cache… how?

hansolo@lemmy.today on 25 Jun 20:17 collapse

I recently tried using the Google Translate image translator. Totally locked up now, requiring Play Store and Google App. Still didn’t work, but is was seriously just “if you don’t give us everything now, we won’t do basic shit for you.”

themachinestops@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 26 Jun 06:19 collapse

Use Yandex or in use google images in the browser.

sidereal@lemmy.ml on 25 Jun 16:41 next collapse

so this has got me looking at alternative OSs, but it’s all a bit confusing. which one is most mature and would still let me run android apps (I want my bank apps and stuff like that) but is also somewhat de-googled? I appreciate any advice

bitwolf@sh.itjust.works on 25 Jun 18:16 collapse

You wild have to test how strict your bank app is.

GrapheneOS, /e/ os, and LineageOS

Would be the first ones I’d reach for.

peteyestee@feddit.org on 25 Jun 16:43 next collapse

Too bad we can’t get a Linux OS.

yournamehere@lemm.ee on 25 Jun 16:46 next collapse

thats what you get when using software from US corpo. all your reasons to have apple and google are fake. convenience and laziness are the reason we use them. i mean if you use whatsapp youre a subhuman why care about gemini. thats the path to idiocracy.

randint@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz on 25 Jun 16:47 next collapse

It’s conforting that I wasn’t the only one who found this concerning. But anyways I don’t have Google (the app; I do have some other Google services installed) or Gemini installed.

EarlGrey@discuss.tchncs.de on 25 Jun 17:00 next collapse

Apple has been seriously underperforming on their AI strategy.

Really makes it easy to keep using their devices.

baggachipz@sh.itjust.works on 26 Jun 12:42 collapse

It’s also nice because I can just turn that shit off with one toggle.

Adderbox76@lemmy.ca on 25 Jun 17:58 next collapse

In the absence of being able to switch to Graphene (Don’t own a pixel), I’ve done everything I can to replace Google Apps with FOSS alternatives, and disabled Google Assistant on my device entirely.

I know none of that will stop a determined Google eventually fucking with me, but at least I’m trying.

I’m so damned tired of the modern corporate world.

minorkeys@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 18:15 next collapse

Yet we keep empowering them with every purchase we make and half of the consumer base will never see an issue doing so. Some purchases we have no choice but to make, and that’s where they really have control of our lives. They seized the means of production, distribution and access of things necessary for life and leverage access to those necessities for access to more parts of our private lives. The majority appear to be naive morons who will happily sell all of us down the river for more camera filters and some pretty shoes. Basically, toys. We are losing our rights, our privacy, and control of our lives in exchange for toys…

willington@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 25 Jun 19:33 collapse

Consumer activism, by itself, has rarely, if ever, accomplished anything.

The best recent examble was Tesla, but that wasn’t a mere non-buying action. Tesla action involved vandalism and a massive word of mouth campaign.

Basically if we want to fight for a future we believe in, we must stop playing patty cakes and fight like it’s a life and death struggle.

Symbolic resistance is not enough.

Don’t get me wrong, I still avoid buying Nestle products, and have for years, but I know this is not the way to real change.

I want us to stop suggesting consumer activism as a valid pathway to change.

minorkeys@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 21:16 collapse

Consumer activism kills businesses and products regularly. We call it ‘trends’.

But manufacturing a boycott for long enough to work is almost certainly going to fail. But like you say, it has a role to play, just not by itself. It must be an action used with precision as part of a larger strategy. We have plenty of tools, but nobody puts them together. It’s always an isolated boycott that flairs up and inevitably fades away. The company just waits it out. We also can’t boycott necessities, and that’s where they really get us. Consumer activism doesn’t work all in those cases.

Dreaming_Novaling@lemmy.zip on 25 Jun 19:57 next collapse

I know that they might not be as secure as GrapheneOS, but you should totally give LineageOS or /e/OS a try, as they’re both not limited to Pixels. I haven’t tested them myself however, since I am a Graphene user. The most I ever tried with one of them was testing ROMs by installing LineageOS on my old Moto G7 play.

Adderbox76@lemmy.ca on 25 Jun 20:04 collapse

I usually move to Lineage once my two year warranty is up, just in case.

I know that by law hardware manufacturers can’t deny hardware warranty based on your software (at least where I’m from…I worked in for one of the big three telco’s up here in Canada)

But I’d rather not have that argument with the manufacturer, so I wait for it to run out. If my phone has a rom available I run that until the hardware dies and then I upgrade.

percent@infosec.pub on 25 Jun 23:05 collapse

Did you find a Google Drive alternative? I’m strongly considering Peergos, but still kinda shopping around.

hoss@lemmynsfw.com on 25 Jun 23:19 next collapse

Nextcloud sucks in many ways, but it is functional and works for me.

kalpol@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 01:35 next collapse

It has always worked fine for me. The occasional upgrade process is manual but literally just a command.

swelter_spark@reddthat.com on 26 Jun 15:47 collapse

I use it, too. Never had any problems with it.

Adderbox76@lemmy.ca on 26 Jun 02:41 collapse

I just use Syncthing. No cloud, just keeps any folders I choose on any devices synced with one another. Never had a problem, and while the files yes accessible on the internet technically, they’re not stored anywhere except the devices that have access to them. Works like a charm.

ipkpjersi@lemmy.ml on 25 Jun 19:15 next collapse

Saying “You’re not alone” is supposed to be a wholesome thing to show someone that you care. Instead, it’s AI companies squeezing as much data out of customers and injecting as much AI into everything they can.

Society really took a wrong turn didn’t it?

Binturong@lemmy.ca on 25 Jun 20:07 next collapse

No, Google is using their influence and our reliance to steer society. Please don’t forget how passive language enables the worst abusers.

ipkpjersi@lemmy.ml on 25 Jun 20:27 collapse

You’re right, I’m an abuse enabler because I made an observation about companies being shitty. Very well said.

HasturInYellow@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 21:48 next collapse

They didn’t say you were an enabler. They said that those words are enabling. Just think about the way you phrase things so as to not hide (intentionally or otherwise) guilt.

Binturong@lemmy.ca on 26 Jun 00:34 collapse

Surely overreacting to my correct observation that did not reflect on you directly will make you seem more reasonable.

MangoCats@feddit.it on 25 Jun 21:46 collapse

Society really took a wrong turn didn’t it?

Society has been circling the drain since the invention of agriculture…

CptOblivius@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 19:16 next collapse

My wife has been trying to get me to switch to Apple since Ive had a Droid X years ago. I’ve been on android since. It is time to switch. Probably a lateral move, but Google has gone to absolute shit.

eestileib@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 25 Jun 20:10 next collapse

Try lineage or graphene before jumping into the money pit maybe?

FG_3479@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 21:51 collapse

You can turn it off by going to Settings > apps > default apps > digital assistant > Google > none.

You should disable the Google app entirely while you’re at it.

BassTurd@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 20:42 next collapse

I’ve been Android and Windows user for pretty much all of my life. Vehemently anti Apple because of the company and I’ve thought the products are trash. I’ve been 100% Linux for over a year and a half, and if this Gemini stuff comes through, I will not have an android phone either. I have a Pixel and my old still functional Pixel. I need to try installing grapheneOS or something else and trial it to see if it will work for me.

If Linux isn’t an option for me in the future for whatever reason, I will be purchasing a Mac. I will never have a Windows machine for the rest of my life if I have any say in the matter, work being the obvious and uncontrollable exception. The fact that I’m even entertaining the idea of owning an iPhone or a Mac is really telling about how far Android and Windows and enshitified.

wpb@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 21:46 next collapse

The user experience of GrapheneOS is basically the same as vanilla Android, except that you have more control (you can uninstall google apps, for example), but at the cost of a small minority of apps (banking ones, for example) not working (out of the box, sometimes at all). My banking app works, and a quick google search will tell you if yours does too. If your old pixel is not too old (4 is no longer supported, 8 definitely is, not sure abt in between), you should give it a go. I think you’ll see it’s not as big of a step as you maybe currently imagine.

BassTurd@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 22:27 next collapse

My old one is a 6, so I think it should be supported. I really just need to bite the bullet and do it.

J52@lemmy.nz on 26 Jun 06:58 collapse

Web search would be a better term since a lot of people use other search engines than Google.

FG_3479@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 21:47 next collapse

Gemini can be disabled. Uninstall/disable the Gemini app if your phone has it then go to Settings > Apps > Default apps > digital assistant > Google > none.

weew@lemmy.ca on 25 Jun 22:12 next collapse

…for now

BassTurd@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 22:29 collapse

I do have it disabled, but this article suggests that it will ignore that and it will be integrated in apps that I really really don’t want it in. I could stomach it if it was search and other functionality like that only, or even if it 100% ran local with no ability to phone home and train on my data, but it doesn’t. Not that it can be listening to calls, reading messages, etc, I’m definitely hard out.

J52@lemmy.nz on 26 Jun 07:08 next collapse

I’ve seen an article that describes opting out of the app integration as well (even though that by default it’ll be on. There should be a class action against Google doing that! That said, I can’t see Europe taking this as it is.)

ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 12:59 next collapse

I think the article is misunderstanding what is happening (though to be clear I think the email is at fault for that). Google is making it so that app developers can integrate Gemini better by allowing Gemini to interact with those apps. There is a menu inside Gemini where you can switch these interactions on and off (Inside Gemini, click your profile in the upper right corner and press apps in the menu).

I’m assuming from the email that this will be enabled by default which is a choice they’ve made and which absolutely could be argued as invasive. That being said you’d actively have to use Gemini and have it be active on your phone in order for it to interact with those apps.

Assuming Google records whatever you do on your phone whenever you do those things, which many privacy minded people of course legitimately worry about and feel uncomfortable with to various degrees, this is not really anything but another way for your assistant to do more things. If they want to read your stuff that’s not really dependent on a switch in the Gemini app.

So if you have Gemini entirely disabled I don’t think this is relevant. Only if you actively seek to use it and do not want it to be able to integrate with external applications will these settings be relevant to you.

FG_3479@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 14:54 collapse

Re-read the article. All this feature does is give you the ability to say ‘set a timer for 10 minutes’ or ‘start a phone call to John’.

If you have ‘Gemini apps activity’ off then they won’t use anything you say to train their models.

BassTurd@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 15:42 collapse

There is a clarification from Google in he article that I don’t believe was there when I first posted. It still by default allows Gemini to have access to things I don’t want it to access, which is anything. It can be blocked through the Gemini apps activity, but I don’t think that was clear in the OG text.

None the less, they claim that it will be completely offline and that no information will be used to train their models. I believe that’s probably true in the short term, but I don’t trust them as far as I can throw them, and I’ve got fucked up shoulders. I’ve little doubt that they will change policy in 6 months to a year so that some data is sent anonymously.

I just want it so if I say don’t allow this thing at all, ever, that stays true and they don’t make me later opt out of that thing.

theherk@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 21:58 next collapse

Not liking Apple for ethical reasons is one thing, but thinking they don’t make good products surprises me. I think the current generation of MacBooks are some of the best computers ever sold.

xorollo@leminal.space on 25 Jun 22:04 next collapse

Last year’s tech for next year’s prices.

SreudianFlip@sh.itjust.works on 25 Jun 22:25 next collapse

?! Have you seen a M4 chip in action? Low energy, high performance. Silent computers, long battery life. Good value on a simple benchmark basis. Not credibly last year tech.

Pre-ARM Macs, sure, but that was five years ago.

Lots of other hardware issues to complain about, however.

ReluctantMuskrat@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 00:04 collapse

That used to be true but no longer. For anything but gaming Apple’s M series chips are amazing.

I’m a 30+ year Windows and Linux user and developer that preferred machines I could build myself. A few years ago switched jobs and was given an M1 Pro for work… it’s incredible how good, fast and low power the M series are. I’ve used my laptop 8 hours straight without plugging it in. That’s simply not doable with any other machine.

I still dislike their walled garden, and for high end gaming Apple’s a no-go, but for most things it’s hard to argue with how good they are. The machines may come at a premium, but they are high quality, work great and for battery use they don’t have a rival.

xorollo@leminal.space on 26 Jun 00:21 collapse

For anything but high end gaming, my kids 8 year old Chromebook is awesome and can still run for hours without a battery charge. And it cost $250 new 8 years ago.

Tbf, I’m not in the market for a new device though. I’m happy you enjoy yours.

BassTurd@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 22:32 next collapse

I should rephrase. They don’t make cheap bad products. I think iOS, Mac OS, and their walled garden approach makes their hardware a bad product. Compound that with being exorbitantly expensive for what you get, and that’s always been too much to overcome for me to support. Now they are/have becoming the less bad option.

skisnow@lemmy.ca on 26 Jun 06:34 collapse

Yeah for sure. Every Apple device I’ve had has been well built. Every interaction I’ve had with Apple Incorporated as a company has been a dystopian nightmare, and with the walled garden it’s not possible to separate the product from the company. Therefore, it’s a bad product.

NewAgeOldPerson@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 22:45 next collapse

I was never a “Mac” person. But I took the leap to escape windows with the Mac studio ultra. I use video and photo edit tools a lot. Used my existing peripheral devices. Expensive but the most silent and powerful machine I’ve ever owned. Software is my only complaint at times but I’ll live with it. I’ll definitely continue down M series for my main device.

In context of the larger thread, I need to figure out how to get graphene on my current phone. I nerfed the AI crap Samsung was forcing on me. But who knows if I got everything. I’ll assume I didn’t. Fdroid or graphene… That’s my summer project.

[deleted] on 26 Jun 00:41 collapse

.

ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net on 26 Jun 09:24 collapse

MacBooks are some of the best computers ever sold.

Yeah, but that’s just one generation out of many. For me MacBooks have terrible keyboards (personal preference, I know, but I hate them), had very common issues with battery, terrible reparability and stupid features like the Touch Bar (which they finally removed proving right everyone who said it’s dumb). So yeah, new MacBooks have great performance but overall the line was not that great IMHO. Very nice design, good quality, not great usability.

xorollo@leminal.space on 25 Jun 22:06 next collapse

Graphene OS is very nice and switching was really easy. Their instrucrions are great. Furthermore, I had a tablet I had an old device I switched to test before I did anything to my phone. I recently needed to switch it back, and the process was similarly just as easy.

BassTurd@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 22:33 collapse

It’s good to know that it’s easily reversible of necessary

Liberal_Ghost@lemmy.zip on 25 Jun 23:00 next collapse

I’ve been GrapheneOS on my pixel7pro since march and I have no complaints. Everything works, and I have control over what apps have access too. The only thing I will say is that if you need the camera to take gr3at photos, its not nearly so good with grapheneOS. I pretty much always have a mirroless camera with me anyway so it dosent bother me. I just use the phone camera for quick snap shots

mctoasterson@reddthat.com on 26 Jun 01:06 next collapse

If you want you can install Pixel Camera (official Google camera) from Aurora Store, and deny it Network permissions and any other permissions you want. It still works pretty well for point and shoot but I can’t speak for every single feature. Also you can install simulated services that the Gcam requires to function, without having to run Play Services.

Liberal_Ghost@lemmy.zip on 26 Jun 03:35 next collapse

Good to know! Thanks!

tamal3@lemmy.world on 30 Jun 11:41 collapse

Novice question: I think I am understanding that Aurora is a way of accessing the Google store without actually installing the Google Play Store, but is there a software package that it comes with? Is it MicroG? I am a little lost with how these relate to each other.

I installed Lineage and MindtheGapps on my Pixel 3a yesterday, but I’m interested in alternatives before I commit to this setup. It seemed like the easiest route given my lack of know-how, but my hope had been to de-Google gracefully and I don’t know if that’s possible with system-level Google still installed on my phone.

mctoasterson@reddthat.com on 30 Jun 13:45 collapse

My understanding is that, in broad strokes…

  1. Aurora acts like a proxy or mirror that doesn’t require you to sign in to get Google Play Store apps. It doesn’t provide any other software besides what you specifically download from it, and it doesn’t include any telemetry/tracking like normal Google Play Store would.

  2. microG is a reimplementation of Google Play services (the suite of proprietary background services that Google runs on normal Android phones). MicroG doesn’t have the bloat and tracking and other closed source functionality, but rather acts as a stand-in that other apps can talk to (when they’d normally be talking to Google Play services). This has to be installed and configured and I would refer to the microG github or other documentation.

  3. GrapheneOS has its own sandboxed Google Play Services which is basically unmodified Google Play Services, crammed into its own sandbox with no special permissions, and a compatibility layer that retains some functionality while keeping it from being able to access app data with high level permissions like it would normally do on a vanilla Android phone.

Tangent5280@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 02:15 collapse

Hey, what camera do you use? My phone is showing its age and I was thinking of getting a secondhand pixel, but I’ve also been looking at cameras to stand in for the phone camera.

I was thinking I should go for beginner friendly and small.

Liberal_Ghost@lemmy.zip on 26 Jun 03:32 next collapse

I use a Sony A6400. Its pretty nice, fairly small. Pick up a used body off eBay, and a Sigma 18-55mm lens and you are pretty set. Oh and get photo processing softwear for your computer. I use Darktable on Linux.

Liberal_Ghost@lemmy.zip on 26 Jun 03:34 collapse

If you want to know anything about photography feel free to hit me up. I’m a huge photography nerd lol

KuroiKaze@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 01:23 next collapse

Apple isn’t gonna have your back on this either you minds well run to foss forever if this is gonna be your Hill to die on

BassTurd@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 02:11 next collapse

For sure, as long as that’s a viable option for me, I’ll do it, but if I don’t have that option…

KuroiKaze@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 08:20 collapse

If you don’t then I’d probably still rock android just for the increase in options it gives me

baggachipz@sh.itjust.works on 26 Jun 12:37 collapse

minds well

/c/boneappletea

KuroiKaze@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 16:07 collapse

People say this so commonly where I’m from. I was never aware that this is not the correct way to say it.

baggachipz@sh.itjust.works on 26 Jun 16:57 collapse

People say it everywhere, but it’s “might as well”.

pxlkttn@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 26 Jun 01:23 next collapse

I’ve been using GrapheneOS for a couple months after having tested it on an older phone for a while. I’m really loving the level of control I have over what I give apps access to. If you have a spare Pixel to test on I definitely recommend it! I’ve been getting away from all Google stuff and finding free open source and self-hosted alternatives. I’m running in the opposite direction of all the AI and data-farming.

HappySkullsplitter@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 03:17 collapse

Same, I’ve always been android and windows and heavily anti-apple

It’s like people have completely forgotten what Apple was like before the iPhone

I don’t know if I’ve ever really been pro-Microsoft, they had just been what gave me the freedom to get the job done. I even had a Windows CE phone back in the day, because it worked.

When Microsoft started monetizing every little thing and became outright hostile with its users is when I made the switch to Linux, the learning curve was steep but it didn’t take very long to get a handle on it

Early on I think I made the mistake of trying to hurry to get a windows experience out of Linux when I should have started where I started with Microsoft, at the command prompt

I used DOS for a long time before Windows 3.1 was even on the scene. Thinking back, even when I was using Windows at first, I was always finding myself bringing up a command prompt to do things.

Linux brings back some of that nostalgia, but it is so incredibly more capable and customizable than windows

badbytes@lemmy.world on 25 Jun 20:49 next collapse

Won’t be using any of those apps.

commander@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 01:14 next collapse

I swear all of this was predicted to happen by open source advocates of the 80s and they’d be called alarmists/whatever and then 30 years later you had Snowden leaks and all the surveillance bills and now Microsoft, Google, and Apple are all advertisement companies mining data through the software and devices they sell

The best people can do is just keep using and advocating for Linux adoption. Try out degoogled Android or a more traditional Linux phone device. Need more users and funding to get the software kinks worked out. They’re not as good as the high end Android and Apple stuff, but it’s a process

copdeb@crazypeople.online on 26 Jun 03:00 next collapse

Do you have any good material to degoogle Android??

commander@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 03:32 collapse

Just saw there’s a sort of large Lemmy degoogle community

lemmy.world/c/degoogle@lemmy.ml

Personally I think it’s a good start to just replace Google applications. Organic Maps over Google Maps. Proton Mail/Drive/VPN/Calendar over Google stuff. Firefox and forks over Chrome. Duckduckgo over Google search. After that you can maybe find an old old Google Pixel phone and then start flashing ROMs off XDA forums as practice before you try a newer more expensive phone

copdeb@crazypeople.online on 26 Jun 11:57 collapse

Ok!!! Thanks. I’ve done all that, so I Think I’m degoogling. It’s Hard to avoid Android in my country, you risk to be out of communication Networks

Typhoonigator@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 03:01 collapse

I’ve been struggling with figuring out how to get google off my phone. I don’t know if I’m doing a bad job of searching or if I’m just dumb, but are there any good communities in Lemmy you can recommend on the topic?

commander@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 03:27 collapse

Just searched degoogle in Lemmy

lemmy.world/c/degoogle@lemmy.ml

There are levels to it. The advanced level is using a custom Android ROM for your phone that has no Google play services/apps on it and that’ll depend on what’s available for your phone from community ROM makers. You can see if any of these support your phone or plan any future phone of yours around these

itsfoss.com/android-distributions-roms/

An easier first step is just starting with non-Google apps. You can start with replacing Google apps like replace Maps with Organic Maps or something similar. Replace Gmail with something like Proton Mail. Same with calendar and cloud storage. Proton has alternatives. They even have an okay Google docs feature. Use a different search engine like duckduckgo rather than Google.

F-droid as an app store. Instead of Google authenticator use Aegis. Instead of Chrome use Firefox or a fork of it.

It’s difficult so a process over time of lessening dependency on Google applications

IlovePizza@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 16:43 collapse

But what about banking apps and surch?

UniversalBasicJustice@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 26 Jun 17:10 next collapse

I’d imagine you can do everything on the website, which can likely be made into an ‘app’ on Firefox via the “Add to Home screen” option.

commander@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 17:32 next collapse

That is an issue that I imagine only being solved with a larger user base that banks don’t feel like they can ignore anymore

As the other guy mentioned, the website. All these apps are usually web wrappers anyways or some sort of cross platform software dev framework that does web/mobile so the website is usually pretty much the same as the apps

potentiallynotfelix@lemmy.fish on 27 Jun 00:08 collapse

banking apps partially work

grapheneos usage guide

RampantParanoia2365@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 01:36 next collapse

This has got to be a prank.

JacksonLamb@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 06:07 collapse

Every new stupid implementation of AI feels like a prank.

HappySkullsplitter@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 03:05 next collapse

I don’t have Gemini loaded to my phone and I have Google assistant voice command disabled

But a few days ago I was having a conversation with my son next to me on the couch with my phone sitting on the arm of the couch.

When I asked him a question, gemini answered with a prompt on the screen I have never seen before and haven’t since.

It still creeps me out

I looked up what the prompt for gemini is supposed to lol like and this looked nothing like that. It looked more like a popup dialogue box from a browser but the only browser I use is opera and it is set as default

buddascrayon@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 10:48 next collapse

Yeah a couple of weeks ago Google secretly activated Gemini on every Pixel user’s phone. I ran into the same problem, my phone suddenly activated and Gemini popped up interrupting a song that I was playing while I was away from my phone. Ended up screwing up the song and having it repeat over and over and over.

graff@lemm.ee on 26 Jun 12:30 collapse

Iirc internal browsers for apps default to a system browser not to your chosen one

Ledericas@lemm.ee on 26 Jun 03:14 next collapse

im using OP12R and uses google, but i dont if it has gemini as integrated in it as a pixel does?

kepix@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 06:22 next collapse

this can be great for a disabled person i guess, i wonder if it works locally in a degoogled way

BrutallyHonestPOS@lemm.ee on 26 Jun 07:42 next collapse

probably not, unless you add certain services back onto your phone. currently, gemini needs the google workspace to do anything, even something like setting a timer or reminder. i obviously dont know what change they make with that announcement, but i dont think they would offer such a feature without sucking the user deep into the google service world.

cley_faye@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 07:56 collapse

If there’s two things that have been consistent over time with the recent LLM and AI craze, is that it have some good, helpful applications for people with disabilities, and that none of the big players are looking into them. Some are actively working against them. Probably because it’s harder to monetize “living” from a PR perspective.

TheObviousSolution@lemm.ee on 26 Jun 09:33 next collapse

IMO, when Google lost most public support, it really started going downhill because the people who wanted to profit the business as much as possible became more determinant than those that were still trying to throttle the company due to ethical considerations. When a company gets criticized for everything it does, its decline increases significantly. Add to that it exists under the US government and how that has completely fallen to corruption.

octopus_ink@slrpnk.net on 26 Jun 12:41 collapse

When a company gets criticized for everything it does, its decline increases significantly.

Gives me hope for the future of MS then! Maybe they will decline themselves out of dominance.

ScoffingLizard@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 26 Jun 10:28 next collapse

If this happens, can we please all make a protest or petition with the FCC?

LoganNineFingers@lemmy.ca on 26 Jun 11:20 next collapse

Maybe this gives me a false sense of security but I bought the adguard pro on social stack (I think…). I just turn all of the connections off on gemini, meta and Bixby. Like this

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ca/pictrs/image/12226b7c-5ff6-4d52-be3c-89c5b902463a.jpeg">

Hoimo@ani.social on 26 Jun 12:27 collapse

Why do you keep Gemini installed? Does it even work offline?

LoganNineFingers@lemmy.ca on 26 Jun 13:00 next collapse

I assume it’s better to leave it and have it not work, then them sneak it on without me knowing or baking it into something else

bytesonbike@discuss.online on 26 Jun 15:01 collapse

Android users won’t have a choice after a while.

I didn’t want Google Now. Uninstalled it, and it’s back and updated. Been fighting for years.

fannymcslap@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 12:09 next collapse

Laughs in eu

ranovich@lemmy.ml on 26 Jun 18:37 collapse

Laughs in degoogled android

Kirca@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 21:26 collapse

Cries in non-eu, non-degoogled android

ezterry@lemmy.zip on 26 Jun 12:28 next collapse

At least so far Samsung is letting me disable Gemini, as I try to do to any bloatware I don’t want running in the background.

Madzielle@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 26 Jun 12:38 collapse

I have a Pixel phone im bout to throw in the river

HowdWeGetHereAnyways@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 12:57 next collapse

Why not throw graphene or another alternative on it (if supported) instead of turning it into e-waste?

Ibuthyr@lemmy.wtf on 26 Jun 17:03 next collapse

Isn’t graphene left for dead because of Google being a bunch of dildos?

frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 26 Jun 17:23 collapse

There are ways they can work around it, but their lead developer was drafted into their country’s military. Ultimately, they’re going to have to make their own phone, and it looks like they’re making plans to do that.

For now, it’s fine.

potentiallynotfelix@lemmy.fish on 27 Jun 00:03 collapse

they’re also working on backporting android 16 to pixels. in phase 2/3 last time i checked, so they are doing decently well. it’s not over, it just adds more work for them that i’m sure they can overcome. security updates already backported :)

Madzielle@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 27 Jun 11:38 collapse

I know nothing about it. Next time I feel wired up for learning, I’ll look into it.

Just making jokes about the river, littering is never cool

Mangoholic@lemmy.ml on 26 Jun 15:42 next collapse

Second that, graphene os is really nice. I have all my intrusive work apps like team, google play stuff on a separate profile and my maim profile has all the private data and contacts. Just watch a yt for setup and follow website instructions, take maybe a few hours to set up.

NotKyloRen@lemmy.zip on 26 Jun 17:02 next collapse

I can’t bring myself to use a Pixel because I don’t trust Google-everything. I have so much to say, and yet I’ve said it a thousand times already. So I’m just gonna sigh.

And yes, I know I’m on Android either way.

Madzielle@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 27 Jun 11:37 collapse

It was free a few years ago, I’ve hated it since I got it. I think I got vibes from the windows phone a friend had some years ago and … thought it would be the same? Idk Mine broke, and it was free. Eh

River, meet phone.

pewgar_seemsimandroid@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 26 Jun 23:22 next collapse

boo! custom roms!

potentiallynotfelix@lemmy.fish on 27 Jun 00:02 collapse

get grapheneos!!

mrodri89@lemmy.zip on 26 Jun 12:56 next collapse

Well I guess I’m glad I moved over to apple. But I guess the enshitification of all our phones is coming soon.

bytesonbike@discuss.online on 26 Jun 15:00 next collapse

Yeah only reason Apple hasn’t done it is because they haven’t figured out a way to connect it all to its ecosystem.

Like they say, the Apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.

Ricaz@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 26 Jun 23:45 collapse

Actually, the apple climbs up the tree and claims it made it

potentiallynotfelix@lemmy.fish on 27 Jun 00:01 collapse

switch to grapheneos unless you’re in the eu

Excrubulent@slrpnk.net on 27 Jun 06:16 collapse

I was writing a comment that my device is unsupported and all the supported pixel phones are flagship priced. Then I decided to check my work and look it up.

Long story short I have a refurbished pixel 6 on the way, it was cheaper than my current phone was.

potentiallynotfelix@lemmy.fish on 27 Jun 06:33 collapse

glad to hear, enjoy it!

Excrubulent@slrpnk.net on 27 Jun 09:28 collapse

Thanks, I’ve wanted to do this for ages, but I got this current phone before I knew about grapheneos and the compatibility issue. Now all I need is to fully switch my main email and I’ll be significantly de-googled.

Elohim_Samael@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 23:41 collapse

Can’t you just delete Gemini with Canta?